[Luc]

I have been using m power on and off for about 5 months now and still can't make my mind up. I use mpowe mainly for my customers that dont want conventional toxic chemicals to be used and mainly for my health as well. But i've recently had 4 really good regular customers complain that their carpets got dirtier quicker and did not look as clean as normal. Now i followed all the the guidelines to the book. i used the correct diluiton rate and aggitaited with a sebo and then extracted with hot water rinse. Following the call backs i cleaned 2 off the jobs (Synthetic carpets) with hyrodri and the results were much better and 3 weeks on the customers are more then happy. I know that on my dirtier side of the cleaning, i never get the same results with using MS even when i've spent ages aggitating with a scrubber.
Has anyone else come across this? I'm not sure whether to carry on using MS.

[jbcleaning]

I find M-Power too upredictable. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. The trouble is that you have to wait 15 minutes to find out if its worked or not. I prefer normal micro-splitters and have gone back to them.

[matt jones]

To be honest i am starting to wonder about results some times its been brilliant other times not so good but dont know why, i sometimes prespray it hot but im sure it works better with cold water.
matt

[carpetguy]

Do you have the same unpredictable results with other products.............if you did.....what would you do?

rob

[Tony_Browning]

I also tried M-Power (on the back of such glowing reports)....but have reverted back to normal micro-splitters.......as above unpredicatable results.....first 2 customer complaints for 3 years.

It seems as though we are all using it incorrectly but sadly I don't wish to use something that is over complex in it's usage.

Micro-splitting cleaning is in my opinion one of the safest and effective all round cleaning solutions I have come across.

 

[Matt Lindus]

Couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding this stuff, although you could use it to make a nice rice pudding. 
Wouldn't have the stuff given. 

[woodman]

Funny that,

watched today when after spraying it on an off white wool loop pile carpet that had a large soiled water mark in the middle of the room, the stain dissapeared before my eyes, much to the astonishment of the client and before any cleaning cleaning took place. (apart from a pre-vac of course) :

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

Matt if you wouldn't have the stuff given to you how do you know what it's abilities are?

I have had good results most of he time, I say most of the time because no 1 product will work all of the time.

But then i would say that wouldn't I :

[Phillip Mold]

Matt, if you do have some given feel free to send it here, I am a believer!

[Eddie Conroy]

I recently met with another carpet cleaner who stated that all he was doing was , vacuuming applying M Power as a prespray, and agitating with a Sebo Duo Brush. That's it. no rinse extraction or further work. He no longer is carrying his machine on the van.
I will trial M power now that smaller quantities are available, but is this the recommended way if not are other CC's doing this? The guy I met has an established family business
Regards
Eddie

[David_Annable]

Hi

Fresh water rinse after agitation is the normal precedure.

This reminds me of the CC who was using the Host system & produced an E30 which he claimed was an extractor, of course he wasn't extracting at all just leaving it in the carpet.

Dave

[Mark Lane-Matthews]

Hi Eddie
This guy is still leaving a load of crap in the carpet as far as iam concerned and ending up with a cosmetic clean,also spotters and solvents should be rinsed out.M-power is a great cleaning product and with extraction, the end result will always be a big improvement on the original.M- power works very well with LM methods such as charley pads and bonnets ,but the sebo duo should only be used for agitation purposes not just for cutting corners IMO.Also i find that M-power struggles with polypropelene so be careful if you follow this route.  

                                                                     Mark

[Kev R]

I would suggest using the product as it is supposed to be used. 

[Steve Chapman]

How can you clean a carpet properly with no form of extraction?

Thats like rubbing a load of washing powder in your clothes and wearing them as clean clothes, i think not  :

as was mentioned earlier,a case of cutting corners, wont do any good in the long run!


regards
steve

[AquaMagic]

I think the answer would be that M-Power continues cleaning and breaking down and splitting for upto 14 days, i personaly extract afterwards and this is also recommended by the supplier, however ive heard of cleaners who spray and agitate under chairs and sofa's then move sofa back and just leave it, they then just rinse the visable area, in my opinion for M-Power best results are obtained by pre-vac, accurate dilution at 120-1, good heavy spray, cursory agitation with a duo or similar, good dwell of 10-15 mins, reapply with a light misting if the carpet has dried when you are ready to extract.  I also agree that its better on wool than polyproalene.

Dene

[Dust Knights]

I apply a few drops of M Power to the buckets when using Charly Pads on polyprop and use No.9 or Craftex as the main pre-spray.

The combination works very well.

Chris

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

The way that m power works is the constant attraction and repulsion of the molecules producing a brownian motion. This motion in effect smashes the dirt up into smaller and smaller pieces. It then forms a matrix around the pieces preventing them from reattaching to the fibers. Obviously this can then be extracted using hwe which will produce best results as the flushing action will be able to remove more of the matrixes but vacuuming when dry will have an effect too but not an effect that would be considered a professional result on a fairly soiled carpet.
In my opinion if the areas under sofas and beds are not too soiled then a spray and agitation will be sufficient but extraction will be needed on the rest.
Try it on your own carpets first to see if you are happy with the results also inspect them the next day and the day after as the cleaning properties carry on as long as there is a little moisture in the carpet so results will improve with time!

Cheers Goron

[darren72]

I think yous are taking this M-Power thing to far to say it continues to work 14 days later aye right.

[Phillip Mold]

try it!

[stains-away]

constant attraction and repulsion of the molecules producing a brownian motion.

I thought it was a boy scoutium motion

[davep]

Dont fancy telling a Custy it keeps working for 14 days..  Takes away the enviromental and residue free aspect away? 

[carpetguy]

Good point Dave, but I suspect it will only work when en element of water is added. This is not unique, there is a product, which behaves in a similar fashion, that's been around for many years.

[John Kelly]

This product I believe as with other coloidal cleaners will go on working for extended periods.
However this will only occur when there is water available. So the product will go on working until the carpet is dry.

[Steve Chapman]

In my opinion if the areas under sofas and beds are not too soiled then a spray and agitation will be sufficient but extraction will be needed on the rest.
Cheers Goron

so where does the dirt go if it's not extracted?

steve

[Matt Lindus]

Cant see any problem with doing that, its only glorified water.

[garyfindlay]

who leaves carpets damp for 14 days!!!!!!

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

Steve obviously it will still be there but in an encapsulated state by the matrix. This all biodegrades in 14 days. I'm no scientist but have researched quite extensively and this is what happens the americans have been using a similar product to clean contaminated soil where they have been transporting there waste overseas to third world countries.

Cheers Goron

[Matt Lindus]

Goran,

Sound like b*** s*** to me old mate.

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

Matt if you believe that m power is just water and you are drinking the water that you believe it resembles then that is exactly the comment that i would expect you to come up with.

Cheers Goron

[jbcleaning]

Goran,

Sound like b*** s*** to me old mate.

I agree 

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

You are entitled to your opinion but what i have written is based on facts which you also will learn if you were to research the product properly!

Cheers Goron

[murky]

Go on Goron give 'im some.

[Art]

You are entitled to your opinion but what i have written is based on facts which you also will learn if you were to research the product properly!

Cheers Goron

Goron, where can i read these facts?Soil being encapsulated in a matrix and left in the carpet indefinately sounds a bit far fetched.

Arthur

[AquaMagic]

Does sound far fetched doesnt it, but instead of knocking something you havent tried why not give it a go first, im sure your opinions will be seen as more worthy if you have acctually tried it rather than speculating about it.  Its like saying that new Pizza at Pizza hut is horrible without ever taking a bite.

How would you feel if a member of the public went round saying that you are a crap cc even though they have never met you or used your services?....same thing surely?

Dene

[Art]

Does sound far fetched doesnt it, but instead of knocking something you havent tried why not give it a go first, im sure your opinions will be seen as more worthy if you have acctually tried it rather than speculating about it.  Its like saying that new Pizza at Pizza hut is horrible without ever taking a bite.

How would you feel if a member of the public went round saying that you are a crap cc even though they have never met you or used your services?....same thing surely?

Dene

Thanks for your comments. I have tried it   

I wasn't questioning it's cleaning abilites, it was the encapsulation in the matrix bit that i was asking about.
If it does leave the soil encapsulated as Goron claims, then your leaving soil behind in the carpet?Not really very professional if your walking away from jobs knowing that there's still soil there, even if it's encapsulated.

Arthur

[AquaMagic]

My apologies Art if i included you in my generisation.  I agree its far better to extract and so does the supplier, i personally wouldnt just spray and leave, but if the customer is pushing the vac round once a week maybee this isnt the worst thing in the world.  Ive never used encap but wonder if the people that do have to ask thier custy to extract by oovering?

Dene

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

got this from a site about these types of cleaners:

4.  The fourth is the matrix structure that active-colloids form in the working environment. It helps to suspend and stabilize any types of emulsions, thus preventing the sedimentation of suspended materials. In the cleaning application it helps to prevent the redeposition of soil back on the cleaning surface.  Since the colloids simply penetrate into soil and stir things up, their design is like no other cleaner and will continue to work as long as there is moisture to work with.

 

5.  The fifth is the porosity of active colloid particles which trap/absorb the particles suspended in media and hold them and render them inert. 

All of these factors plus many others make our technology unique and extremely successful. They are utilized in a variety modern day applications as a cleaner, remediation agent, scouring agent, degreaser, laundry washing detergent, aircraft cleaner, pesticide dispenser, oil spills cleaner, deodorizer, and much more.

[prodry]

http://www.bockstanz.com/colloidial_science.htm

http://www.nationalcolloid.com/colloid.htm

[Ken Wainwright]

From the discussions I have had with Solution UK and others, M Power will continue to work for upto 3 days. It is claimed to be fully biodegradeable in 14 days. I can see where the confusion comes from regarding people thinking it continues to work for 14 days.

In the case of wool carpet yarn, wool will retain approx. 30% of it's own weight in water and still feel dry. For it to return to it's pre-cleaned state of "dryness" will typically take about 48 hours, even if cleaned well with a high powered truckmount.  It is possibly this characteristic of wool's moisture retention that allows the colloidal cleaning process to continue for several days.  I suspect that a low moisture retention fibre such as olefin/polypropylene (0.4%) would not perform so well with this post-clean cleaning characteristic.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[AquaMagic]

Ken do you think that this is why we seem to get a better result on wool even bofore we have left?

Dene

[matt jones]

it would seem to make sense in a way

[Matt Lindus]

Ok Ok, M - Power is as good as water. It has NO emulsifiers, electrostatic discharges etc ect.
So therefore unlike a detergent what gets to work on contact breaking down and dissolving soils and emulsifying oils, it just sits there like water doing nothing.

What is needed to compensate for this lack of chemical reaction is agitation and plenty of it. When using M-Power your as good as trying to clean a carpet with plain water only, there is no chemical reaction just the abrasives of the liquid when it is driven hard into the pile with a mechanical device.

With an in-tank detergent little or no agitation is needed and more often than not, no pre spray is required. The chemical is working for you all the time you are wanding. Emulsifying and dissolving deep within the pile of the carpet.
 

Matt

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

If the product encapsulates etc and also biodegrades within 14 days then how can it do both without releasing the dirt back into the carpet.

In practice it must be better to extract to remove both the dirt and the colloid surfactant.

Cheers

Doug

[Ken Wainwright]

Matt

I feel that your understanding of these new generation colloidal products is flawed.

From my understanding, Goron's explanation is spot on. M Power requires only nominal mechanical agitation to aid distribution of the product whereas earlier generation micro-splitters require more agitation (correctly done, not a bad thing in itself). Colloidal products will agitate themselves, which breaks down the soil to microscopic proportions. I believe that Nemesis works in a similar way.

If you would like to learn more of this new type of product, which I feel is not an easy product to initially use, I would suggest contacting the manufacturer as they do run hands-on technical days, you'll then be able to see, learn and try for yourself.

Dene
Yes

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Ken Wainwright]

Doug

The recomendation is that extraction should be performed. This is by HWE, Pad or dry vac. Even after HWE, advice is that the carpet should not be then dry vacced for 3 days if possible as the very small amount of residues continue to work and benefits will be seen.

From the small amount of use I have given this product, mainly on my own wool carpets, I would agree with the manufacturers claim.

Presumably because of the low moisture retention property of Olefin, this would explain why my use on this fibre has not been too successful. I gather there have been minor "tweeks" to help with this fibre, but I haven't tried a new batch.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[STEPHEN LOVERING]

M-POWER CAME THIS MORNING, WHAT CAN I SAY " 1ST CLASS " WILL BE USING
IT ALL THE TIME FROM NOW.

STEPHEN

[Ian Puckett]

theirs none so def as those that dont want to here and none so blind as those that dont want to see. mat lindus will not be convinsed because he dose not want to be. if it was only water then them that use it must have been hipnotised of something.

[ianharper]

only one thing with M-power dwell time, dwell time, dwell time, lots of cleaners will not wait thats why they get rubbish results.

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

I find the dwell time beneficial for me. I can prepare large areas at a time like three to for rooms at a time then switch on the tm and extract unlike standard MS where extraction should be as close to agitation as possible. Detergents need dwell to work properly infact my iicrc instructor told me that he felt in tank detergents were nothing but a con to your customers as they are not given the correct dwell time to work effectively

Cheers Goron

[carpetguy]

When I first found out about colloidals, about 6 years ago, I obtained a sample, but it was as thick as syrup, so I never got to experimemt.

Can anyone give an opinion on the similarity, or otherwise, of Nemesis, to M Power.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

Lets not forget that detergents and colloids are both surfactants.

Cheers

Doug

[*paul_moss]

Surfactants are wetting agents that lower the surface tension of a liquid, allowing easier spreading, and lower the interfacial tension between two liquids.

A surfactant is briefly defined as a material that can greatly reduce the surface tension of water when used in very low concentrations

[carpetguy]

Do colloids not go a bit further .............do they not release the soiling , then encapsulate it, or hold it in suspension, allowing it to be extracted, within the carrier, ie, water.

[John Kelly]

In laymans terms:
The active ingredients in colloids are small chemical chains called Mycelles. One end hates water and the other, stronger loves water. The end that hates water attaches itself to dirt and grease hoping to escape from the water, however the water loving side is stronger and eventually (dwell time) pulls the dirt into the water where it is held in suspension. This is happening on a minute scale thousands of times on each fibre. This is why the water is a vital part of the reaction and I believe the reason for sometimes poor results on Poly Prop. Being a filament the solution does not cling to it as it does Wool and therefore the product is not in contact with the dirt for long enough to work.
Even though the dilution rates are very high for the products available the resulting mixture is still very potent and still very viscous.

[chrisg]

Surfactants are wetting agents that lower the surface tension of a liquid, allowing easier spreading, and lower the interfacial tension between two liquids.

A surfactant is briefly defined as a material that can greatly reduce the surface tension of water when used in very low concentrations

just to add to that,

allowing water to then pass through fibres easier, thus cleaning better than just water.

Thins the water, basically.

[*paul_moss]

In laymans terms:
The active ingredients in colloids are small chemical chains called Mycelles. One end hates water and the other, stronger loves water. The end that hates water attaches itself to dirt and grease hoping to escape from the water, however the water loving side is stronger and eventually (dwell time) pulls the dirt into the water where it is held in suspension. This is happening on a minute scale thousands of times on each fibre. This is why the water is a vital part of the reaction and I believe the reason for sometimes poor results on Poly Prop. Being a filament the solution does not cling to it as it does Wool and therefore the product is not in contact with the dirt for long enough to work.
Even though the dilution rates are very high for the products available the resulting mixture is still very potent and still very viscous.

John this is the same for all  other detergents as this is how they attach them selves to soil,grease etc hence enabling movement on extraction.

If you put anything greasy/ oily in a bowl of water and then add a squirk of plain washing up liquid you will see this.

[davep]

Does anyone use any other products along with M power or Super Nemesis, like a degreaser or tank booster?

[Len Gribble]

Not knocking colloidal route standing on the sideline, don’t get many wools or 80/20 mix carpets now days.

Ken

When you say manufacture don’t you mean supplier with there brand name,
Sorry to be pedantic.

Rob

Probably come from the same chemical plant then via a distributor who waters it down (ok mixes it) then onto the company who promotes it.


Len

[*paul_moss]

Not knocking colloidal route standing on the sideline, don’t get many wools or 80/20 mix carpets now a days.

Len

Len ive heard you have a secret stash of M Power and even shower in it. 

[John Kelly]

Paul, yes you are right thats how most detergents work. It is just about differences in the chemical chains. Colloids act at a much smaller scale. Some call it nanotechnology.

[Len Gribble]

Paul

You could be right about the stash but it’s not labelled as M Power but it has Bio on the label, shower out of action at the moment 3mths must get some one in DFY  so it down to baths. If you come down for the sdo got some hair shampoo 5lts actually 100lts slightly damage container but not leaking.


Paul

Mork and mindy just miss the show NANO

Sorry

Len

[carpetguy]

If the explosive power of bleach could be utilised safely, would that not be the ideal product ?

[Len Gribble]

Rob

It probably has matrix structure of substance.

Len

[chrisg]

I've heard people say they love M-power, but has any one ever tested detergents and micro splitters side by side on the same carpet?

[matt jones]

I am pretty sure i get better results from m-power and nemesis then i do from using detergants for one they do alot of the cleaning and breaking down of spots and stains with just spraying a detergant prespray will do. I rem seeing on here someone posted pics of one carpet presprayed in m-power or similar and another in a dertergent with just a light aggitation and a dwell and you could clearly see that the m-power side was cleaner and had done more of the work. I also find that some spots and stains don't return as they did sometimes using detergents and i like the aspect of them continueing to work for abit after i have aswell cause if you leave a carpet looking outstanding it can only get better not worst a day later. I did use some more nemesis the other day and got superb results from it again i find m-power and nemesis very similar products as they are basically. It would be great if all we got was wool carpets but saying that i used the nemesis the other day on a nylon carpet and it came up brill. I might think about having some prochem renovate for polyporps and similar though in the future.

[matt jones]

Forgot to also mention if you clean a really trashed carpet and have given it everything you have got then i will give my last spray over with m-power and just leave it, it can sometimes improve as the carpet is very slightly damp so the m-power is given a long time to try and improve the appearance so need need for another rinsing.

Question for john kelly can nemesis be used like this ie sprayed on the carpet after you have finished and yet be safe enough to leave on there without having to extract?
regards
matt

[John Kelly]

Would always recommend extraction, however these products are used succesfully in bonnet cleaning where the majority of the solution is left in the carpet with no detrimental effects. Try it and see. Also has anyone had success just using it in the tank and plain extracting. It can be used this way.