Temperature

« **on:** June 26, 2004, 04:50:02 pm »

At what temperature can i clean an old deep pile foam back poly carpet with an added problem of dye run though ita a one colour carpet its got various stains so i am hoping i can use a high temp . and ideas

« **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2004, 06:55:26 pm »

Paul

The information on your post above is a little confusing. If the carpet's fibre is polypropylene, the dye WILL NOT bleed as the yarn wasn't dyed in the first place. It's more likely that the fibre is polyamide (nylon) or, most unlikely, polyester or acrylic. Do your tests so that you know what you're working with.

Elevated water temperature is more likely to set most stains, so this should be avoided. There are also the usual risk elements of elevated temperatures, including a greater risk of dye bleed, especially as the pH could be raised 5 fold at elevated temperatures (0.5pH) Have you tested with an acidic rinse? Or neutral detergent? The maximum temperature I would use would be 55 to 60C, but test everything to be safe. When I attended a Prochem course many, many years ago, we were shown a sample of plain coloured carpet where the dye bled, leaving a white carpet

If Sir/Madam has a spare offcut, use that to carry out your tests.

Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken

« **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2004, 07:09:29 pm »

Paul,

Wise words from Ken.

On a slightly more general note, the solvency of (almost) any solvent can be increased by raising its' temperature but, as ken pointed out, there are often attendant risks to the fibre, structure, dye and chemistry.

It is not only safer but mostly more effective to adopt a more sophisticated approach by the correct pre-treatment of stains. Think of your extraction machine more in the light of a rinsing device and less as a complete stand-alone cleaning system.

John.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2004, 08:10:45 pm »

Thanks for your replies, taking it onboard with regards to the prochem course i did one at alltec iicrc course but there wasnt ant hands on stuff so is the prochem one worth doing thanks again

« **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2004, 09:56:17 pm »

Paul,

The Prochem course may have change in the years since I attended, but when Ron Tilley taught ,it used to include hands-on stuff, and although biased towards their products and equipment was worth attending.

Ron was never in favour of high temperature cleaning.

John.

« **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:09:05 am »

Hi

Just to add a bit of spice to the proceedings... beware!

Some of the patterned polypropylene carpets may not be completely solution dyed.
There is a procedure that enables the manufacturer to 'etch' the fibres so that they will accept additional colour.

Derek

« **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:11:15 am »

this carpet cleaning seems to be all ifs and buts

« **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:21:37 am »

Paul

Defiantly if and buts, but get it wrong it will cost you, the way of the world, Derek must of been appraised by Paul P today of my cock up, yes I learnt the hard way, wont do it again!

Len

« **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:26:33 am »

Len

I know just wont to do a good job got a carpet on monday not 100% sure of the fibre but i know it bleeds with alltec dust mite pre spray think i'll try another prespray i have from craftex

« **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:38:11 am »

Paul,

Just remember the golden rule - ABT

Always Be Testing

John.

« **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:43:39 am »

would you clean a old carpet which the dye runs considering they wont the rest of the house done as well

« **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:55:09 am »

Paul,

Firstly my descision whether to clean any carpet is never influenced by the value of the total job.

It is sometimes possible to apply a dye stabiliser prior to cleaning and there are some, predominantly red, plain carpets that I have been cleaning for years, which exhibit colour loss with any liquid applied. though the contents of the waste tank are very red, even after many cleans the finished carpet colour appears as strong as could be expected for carpets of their age.

If you have any reservations about a your ability to controll the progress of a clean - don't do it !

It hurts less to turn down a little money than it does to loose a lot.

John.

« **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2004, 02:01:46 am »

This is a new customer and think it could be a long running one . I also have cleaned a carpet where my ank was the colour of the carpet with no adverse effect on the appearance i will try another pre spray and test first . Its a good i think worth the risk they say they wont to replace soon any way (why have it cleaned is beyond me but thats not my problem) hes a bookie so plenty of money

« **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2004, 09:05:09 am »

Len

I did meet with Paul Pearce yesterday and his first words to me were...."I am NOT telling you about Len" and he didn't.

Any problems are dealt with by the utmost discretion by the NCCA... if a person want to discuss them openly (say on the forum) then its up to them. If they choose to use the forums in this way it can often serve as a timely warning for others.

Cheers
Derek

« **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:57:50 am »

Derek

I did not think for one minute Paul would say any thing to you and nether did I think you would ask! It was only done as a bit of banter between us and I was putting my hands up by saying I made a mess of things and need help, however I may have put the creditability of the NCCA and it directors in a position, this was never my intention; if this is the case I give my sincere apology to all.

The problem I had was wood dye I assumed the feet were plastic as it look like it.

Publicly I would like to thank Paul for his help and guidance.

Len

« **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2004, 12:08:44 pm »

Len

I didn't ask Paul...he read your post and my reply on the forum...he was ready for me ... In fact I had forgotten all about it until he mentioned it.

Len... Paul spoke very highly of you... unless he had the wrong Len Gribble that is

Could there possibly be two?

We all make mistakes from time to time and by sharing the experience with other people it may prevent them from falling into the same trap... this works on a reciprocal basis

Cheers
Derek

« **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2004, 02:00:25 pm »

Derek

Isn’t the UK lucky only one of me in the cc game;

there is a priest with same name local to me no relation.

Anyway I leant a valuable lesson which I will not be repeating.

Len

« **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2004, 06:11:58 pm »

With Regards to the deep pile carpet i had to clean full of stains and which the dye ran

I pre-sprayed the stains with master stain remover agitated and left for 10 mins then i presray with ultimate master which was the only chemical i ound that didnt make the carpet dye run . Then i cleaned with ultimate master the customer was impressed i was impressed didnt think it was going to work that well it came out prefect (unbelievable)

« **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2004, 10:23:04 pm »

I've been HWE carpet/upholstery cleaning for 8 years and have never had a colour run problem with carpets ( and only twice with upholstery) I generally clean upholstery at around 60 degrees and carpets 60-70 sometimes 80-85 on stinking pub carpets. So am I lucky or ignorant to the possible risks. Of course we have all cleaned eg a red carpet and had red water in the waste tank but as mentioned earlier the carpets appearance after this supposed colour loss is fine. I am baffled. So when does this colour run problem crop up?

Chris

« **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2004, 10:26:51 pm »

i have seen it 3 times now yea once was a red carpets and twice on old carpets one was 28 years old

« **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2004, 11:53:35 pm »

see this temperature has reach a hot topic

« **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2004, 12:03:54 am »

I think it’s now cooled down

Len

« **Reply #22 on:** June 29, 2004, 12:21:16 am »

Chris,

Interesting point and one I have made on several occaisions.

I have been cleaning carpets for over 20 years plus a bit at M&S in the seventies and have never had a colour run complaint on carpets.

On upholstery I colour ran a viscose velour suite in 1990 and have seen quite a lot of examples of where customers have previously colour run parts of their upholstery.

When I first started cleaning shrinkage of carpets was by far the biggest problem but have'nt had one of those for several years now.

cheers,

Doug

« **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2004, 12:50:00 am »

Going off on a bit of a tangent here.

Derek,

You really don't like polypropylene do you?

« **Reply #24 on:** June 29, 2004, 10:03:12 pm »

Hey Norman

You are talking to a guy that chose polypropylene carpet tiles for our conservatory... why ..because they were solution dyed (Very little fade), hard wearing, plus they are comfortable, warm and look nice... just like me!

The earlier Polypropylene carpets I didn't like much but some of the modern ones look and feel just like wool...in fact I have seen a label on a 100% Polyprop carpet that says just that.... 'like wool'

They clean well, are hardwearing..the only bit I don't like is the flattening but the manufacturers are solving that one too

Cheers
Derek