[DanielWelford]

Just wondered if anybody used this particular range, as just received a load of gumpf from them.

Apparently just use as a prespray, then just extract with water???

Thanks.

[Len Gribble]

Daniel

Yes I do

You omitted agitate the prespray; can be done with a carpet pile brush (hard work) or use a Sebo Duo or equivalent a lot easer.

Len

[Dynafoam]

Daniel,

What Len ommited to say is that you will not regret trying this range, and that the back-up you can receive is second to none.

John.

[DanielWelford]

Len

Thanks. Do you use it for both carpets and upholstery?

I assume you are getting good results or you wouldnt be using it,........but you really just rinse off with water!

Dan

[DanielWelford]

Thanks John

Spoke to a chap there called Nick I think, who was very informative, but I am always reluctant to try things I dont understand fully.

Dan

[Dynafoam]

Daniel,

Yes, I get excelent results on both carpets and upholstery. There are occasions when I will opt for alternative products for specific problems, but now use this range on most jobs.

Even if left to dry in, there would be no residue associated with rapid resoil, but since the normal rinsing agent is plain water, this is as close as it gets to zero residue cleaning.

Be prepared for a learning curve before you get the best out of the products, and take heed of Lens comment about agitation - this is  essential for best results.

John.

[DanielWelford]

Thanks John

Any suggestions on how one can find out the best ways of using these products:

Contact supplier, or experimentation (at home of course).

Finally, do you always extract with water, or sometimes use a solution.

Thanks

Dan

[stevegunn]

Take the plunge and try these products you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Dave Parry]

I dont use on carpets, but do on upholstery. Works great. Re agitation on upholstery, I use a Kirby Zip brush to agitate. Saves a lot of work, but sounds like a dentist drill. I use a vacuum reducer, which bleeds some vacuum off to slow it down.

[Len Gribble]

Daniel

Yes you do extract with plain water only, and I do use it for both, sorry I don’t get good results with this agent I get great results! Some may disagree so be it!

I can understand your reservations about any new product.  Regarding use contact Nick again he will run though the technique and yes you should test.

Len

[Dynafoam]

Daniel,

Extraction is plain water except where tank addative is required for non-cleaning purposes eg. acidic rinse for dye stabilisation.

John.

[HolmansUKLTD]

Give it a go Daniel,

I worked for Prochem and for years only used their products,

i could not and DID not belive that you could get great results by just rinseing with water ( with a tiny bit of deodoriser or acidic stabliser), untill i tried a sample of soloutions.

Boy do they work and with the sebo duo for agitation you will suprise yourself on the results on the first few times you use them, no matter how long or who you have worked for.

regards

Nick Holman

Just for the old crow

[Mike Halliday]

I must be an old cynic but this looks like an a sneaky way of getting some free advertising for Solutions :

"you mean you can rinse it off with just plain water, gee thats amazing"  : : :

Mike

[Dynafoam]

Mike,

Nowt o't sort ! Just enthusiasm for a product that works well when used in the appropriate circumstances and manner.

Would you be happier if I were to say that One step will, in the same circumstances, produce indistinguishable results?

John.

[DP]

This is interesting  (Ill reserve judgement on thoughts of brand advertising for the moment) but I have been using this method to clean fire damage carpet and upholstery for as long as I can remember, the last 15 years with a certain Prochem product in various levels of dilution dependant on soiling.

I have tried many methods and have yet to find anything to beat it, the results are as good as you will ever get.

Sorry I cant promote the Solutions brand uniquely on this occasion, but there are a number of other chemicals very well suited to this method, but oddly sold for other carpet and upholstery uses. If only people would just experiment a little.

[Derek]

John

You are running into the same problem I have in naming products although its a different reason

Just stick to Micro-splitters

Just to add a point beware when using acidic products as a final application on fabrics containing cotton. I am just finishing a reversal process for a fellow cleaner on a beige cushion that has gone bright orange.

Reason: Acid sensitive dye has been used.

Cheers
Derek

[strakercleaning]

No FREE advertising or brand endorsements
I have used Solutions range for 5 months now and have consigned my 'traditional' chemicals to the space behind the drivers seat, where i cannot reach without climbing into the van. This IS significant, as i am one LAZY s*d and that means that i am now confident i will not have to climb back in to get to my 'Old faithfuls'
That is EXPERIENCE not advertising

[Derek]

Hi

It would be interesting to know (prompted by Chris's comments about 'traditional' chemicals) just what impact the emergence of micro-splitters in general has made on the sale of traditional chemicals?

Will the major players (Chemical suppliers/manufacturers) also go the micro-splitting route or will the development of the more traditional chemicals take a major leap forward?

The micro-splitting phenomenon may well have a dramatic effect in the formulation of more revolutionary new products in the near future.

Interesting thought!

Derek

[stevegunn]

I think traditional chemical sales will have taken a right old beating excuse the pun.I have not used my local chemspec or host distributor since before christmas I still use other chemicals but not as often as I used to depending on the circumstances.

[mark_roberts]

I use microsplitters and find they work BUT sometimes the 'traditional' chemicals are better and faster.

I was also thinking like Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks
Mark

[Dynafoam]

Derek,

I do try to use the 'generic' term, but since the question was about a specific range, I allowed my self to be tripped up on this occasion.

DP,

Believing in minimum residue cleaning, I have been using fresh water rinsing - though certainly not exclusively - for many years. This with several 'conventional' pre-sprays and with products such as 'Spitfire'.

On one occasion several years ago, whilst cleaning a very dirty nightclub carpet, I accidentally used this method when an assistant forgot to put the Liquid Woolsafe in the tank. The results were indistinguishable.

John.

[Ian Gourlay]

How can you be sure that the Micro Splitter cleaning solution is hitting evey part of the carpet.

When will Microsplitters be available in Janitorial Suppliers, hence avoiding carriage and VAT charges.

When will they be made in the UK. Thus avoiding pollution  as they travel across boarders?

[Mark Betts]

Ian

You would still have to pay VAT at your janitorial suppiers.

Mark

[Ken Wainwright]

Ian

I stand to be corrected, but I believe the One Step brand and possibly Easy Step too are both of UK origin. One Step is certainly available from many janitorial suppliers.

As for total coverage, part is down to the application skills of the technician (E-W then N-S) and the rest is down to the agitation. By following the manufacturers instructions, I've never had an application problem, regardles of brand. The same application problems arise with conventional detergents.

I'd like to raise the question "Why do detergent pre-sprays require detergent rinses?" My belief is that the  detergent rinse is to remove the not so free rinsing pre-spray rather than the soil. After all, as a good rule of thumb, what chance of removing soil does a rinse solution of a lesser pH and concentration than the pre-spray have?   As far as I know, nobody has ever said what a detergent rinse is for, it's just one of those things we used to accept as a necessary part of the system. Some detergents as well as the microsplitters are now free rinsing, so will all other pre-sprays eventually follow suit?

Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken

[strakercleaning]

Ian,
I am sure that 'direct from manufacturer' is cheaper than through a middle man.
As for crossing borders.............what is completly made in England, in the Carpet Cleaners arsenal ?  

[Dynafoam]

Ian

I'd like to raise the question "Why do detergent pre-sprays require detergent rinses?"
Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken

Ken,

I'm sure you are correct in your assumption that some detergent pre-sprays do require some detergency in the rinse, however that is not always the case. I have for years been using fresh water rinsing with certain  'conventional' pre-sprays.

However, if you consider an average domestic lounge, for example, when using traditional treatments, with good cleaning practice, only a small percentage of the carpet will receive any pre-spray - where it is actually required.  The bulk of the carpet would only have the machine solution and the suction of the machine to remove soil. This is where the in-tank detergent is required even if the pre-treatment chemical is free-rinsing.

In the case of micro-splitters and specifically formulated pre-treatments such as 'Spitfire', the entire carpet is pre-treated, which makes the fresh-water rinse a practical proposition.

As I mentioned elsewhere earlier today, I have cleaned very heavily soiled nightclub carpets, with conventional pre treatments and only a fresh-water rinse - but every square inch required pre-treatment.

John.

[Len Gribble]

I have to agree with Chris on this, Ken is correct One Step is available via the Jan supplier how ever no discount but I get 20% off on another brand, will call in to see him and see what the score is on cc products.

Len

[Derek]

John

You last post raises yet another issue... many people use a prespray for the traffic lane areas only therefore your theory would apply.
On a personal note I have 'always' pretreated the whole item I am cleaning in order that the finished job is uniform in appearance and feel.

I was always led to believe that the acidic rinses were devised to...

1.  lower the pH of the higher alkaline pretreatment chemicals.

2.  assist in the removal of the pre-treatment detergent residues.

They certainly leave the fibres softer to the touch than if they were not rinsed in this way or if an alkaline detergent is used through the machine.

Maybe I just fell for the salesman's chat lines!

Derek

[Dynafoam]

Derek,

I cannot disagree with any of that,  except for use of the same pre-treatment for the entile carpet.

Uniformity of the finished result is, I believe, an essential aim. In practice, this is not often achievable since the wear and tear on the traffic lanes and shoe-shuffle areas render this an imposibility.

The treatment of non-traffic areas with a product designed to break down traffic grease, I consider to be more than pointless - fibres not 'protected' by a layer of grease may be more prone to any detremental effects of the TLC. Where the pH of the soiling is lower, higher pH pre-treatments will leave a lower residue pH.

I have used acidic rinses for the same reasons you described as I think the 'feel' and 'bounce' of the pile are as important as the 'eye' of the end result, but if the in-tank solution is something like S781 Liquid Woolsafe, I would consider them superfluous.

Rightly or wrongly, my aim has always been to keep the pH of the carpet as close to the desired end pH as possible, throughout the cleaning process.

Regards,

John.

PS. I cannot see a seasoned professional such as yourself falling for any salesmans' chat lines, no matter how slickly delivered

[mark_roberts]

personally I pre-spray the whole room.  You can't see the all the soil so not pre-sraying an area may cause problems with wick back and poor visable results.

I only use in tank detergents for extra cleaning power on dirty carpets and they do make a great difference.  I was under the impression that quality pre-sprays and detergents from the big name manufactureers did not leave dirt attracting residues when used according to manufacturer instructions.  But then again can we believe them?

On all the training courses I've been too NCCA, IICRC, Prochem etc there does not seem to be a concencus of opinion on the issue of rinsing with detergents.  Some say yes no problem others say to rinse and then rinse again with an acid rinse or mist.  Confusing esp to newcomers.

thanks
Mark

[Derek]

Hi

Many people use the low pH (acidic) rinse solutions purely as a neutraliser...so when self neutralising chemicals came on the scene they didn't feel the need for them any longer.

One also has to consider that a previous cleaner may have been using a very high pH chemical through the machine.... we don't want to pick up and add to his problems do we?

Low pH rinses also assist in removing any potential residual deposits that may be left behind.

With regards to pre-treating all the carpet I do take into consideration 'tracking' from the main areas into the lightly used areas plus all the airborne soiling etc.

At my time of life change takes some thinking about...something about tricks and 'old' dogs I believe.

Cheers
Derek

[Dynafoam]

Derek, you old dog,

If your old tricks work well, as I'm sure they do, you need few new ones  

Our approaches are, I suspect not so different. There are occasions when I would use several different pre-treatments (other than spotters) on one carpet, but very few where I would use the same one (micro-splitters excepted) on the entire carpet.

This old dog has always believed in treating each individual area of carpet as it requires.

John.

[strakercleaning]

My preference would be to prespray traffic lanes and treat individual marks then rinse whole area.
Surely that would ensure an even result throughout, as the problem areas will come up to the same standard as the lightly soiled areas.
My belief is that treating the whole area with the same chemical will still leave a darker impression on the heavy soiled areas, such as draught marks and traffic lanes.
With Microsplitters, i tend to spend longer brushing into the heavy soil and then find an even finish ..... did just that on white wool loop carpets today with cola stains and heavy traffic lanes.............perfect finish in one swift operation.
BOY...............I'M GOOD

[Derek]

Guys

I guess it won't be long before someone realises I am up for the wooden s p o o n award! I had to split that the checker doesn't like it
a.k.a 'The Halliday award'

To continue.... The 'lovely' people of Leicestershire must be unique as I find so often that I 'need' to pre-treat the whole area and the end results certainly justify it.

Its the same when cleaning furniture I always clean the whole in the same manner.... by doing this I have discovered on numerous occasions that the most soiled areas are the sides and back through filtration.

Cheers
Derek

[Ian Gourlay]

What did you use to do before these wonderful Micro Splitters came out.

Did you Pre Spray?

Clean With prefered cleaning Soultion.

Refil Tank and Rinse Carpet throughly with plain water or an acid rinse?

[Dynafoam]

Ian,

There is not a short answer to your question.

For one thing my methods have varied greatly over 38-39 years, so I'll confine the answer to the last five years or so.

I did use the method you detailed on rare occasions. Always the requirements of the carpet have affected the choice of chemicals applied and therefore the methodoligy.

Commonly one or more pre-sprays were used as required, they were agitated, then rinsed out with either plain water or water with added rinse agents. Sometimes parts of a carpet were rinsed with plain water, then an in-tank addative was used for other parts.

The addatives could be non-detergent acidic rinses, detergent or simply sanitisers.

The aim was always to put the minimum amount of product onto the carpet as a pre-requisite to leaving the minimum amount behind.

John.

[nick.solution]

Hi Guys

One step is produced in Germany/Holland not in the UK  Easy step is produced is the States, Carraige charge on Solution products is only on small orders thus keeping the price as low as possible for many people, at this stage supplying through janitorial suppliers would on serve in putting the price up to the end user.

Best regards Nick