[David Rogers]

You've only been in the business 14 months, you have a lot to learn.

Simon

Patronizing Arse Simon ........  has it ever been alluded to you that you may be a tad  arrogant?

I have a degree in Business Studies and 22 years experience of sales & marketing ......

y usted ?

It's clear to me that you see something you know has a market and that will take some cash off the 'squirties only' and because you haven't had the foresight to get into it, you don't like it.     Very transparent mister..... 

Anyhoo ......... been out working 8 hours doing low moisture jobs today and I'm back out at 6pm ......... £420 netted so far today .......... not a wand in sight.

See ya.

 :

[David Rogers]

James, Envirodri is by no means the best product for VLM.

I do love the GEN4 but Envirodri's compound is definately not up to HOST standard.

Then again it works out at £1.99 per kilo, where HOST costs £3.33 !

If you've written off VLM fair enough, but if you want to try a high quality product, get a zapper pack of HOST and I reckon you'll find it better in terms of cleaning, spot absorbancy, and vacuum/removal performance.

Dave.

[derek west]

david

if youve only been in the business 14 months then youve hardly started doing repeats yet, (well i hope you haven't) and your all ready ripping into someone with 30 years experience in the carpet cleaning industry, someone who is (sometimes reluctantly) respected in the industry, yes he can be a stubborn old bugga sometimes and i think he would probably agree there, (all though not to me ) but you certainly can't argue with his portfolio.

think you should wait til youve seen a good few repeat cleans before you get on your high horse mate. chemicals, sticky residues, slow build ups of compounds may just, and i say may just make you eat your words.

[wynne jones]

Shut up Derek you patronising arse. 

I agree with Derek and Simon. People come into the industry with other stuff that may well be transferable but in 14 months you still have a long way to go mate.
Simon has been around since the ark (in fact he probably cleaned it  ) so you would do well to take on board comments from people like him.

[derek west]

Shut up Derek you patronising arse. 

I agree with Derek and Simon. People come into the industry with other stuff that may well be transferable but in 14 months you still have a long way to go mate.
Simon has been around since the ark (in fact he probably cleaned it  ) so you would do well to take on board comments from people like him.

tears rolling down my face. PMSL. 

[Simon Gerrard]

Dave,
You've taken my comments completely out of context. One of the greatest developments in recent years in the carpet cleaning business has been forums like this where you get a whole variety of people with vastly different views and experience. You've described having taken a lot of Sh_t recently but if you look back on it with a slightly less hostile view you'll see that it was only people expressing their opinions and giving you advice with the best and most sincere of intentions.
Those of us that have been in this industry for a long time had to make our own way in the wonderful world of carpet cleaning and make all of the mistakes we've made with no one to share them with and help us along the way, but now we share what we know about the business with others, some times that makes you friends, other times it makes you you enemies - that's forums for you.
You don't have to take on board people's comments or advice, but I think that dishing out abuse in return is a bit out of order.
Best of luck with your business and I do mean that.

Simon

[garry22]

Here's a couple of photo's of a job we were asked to put right after another company messed up big time.

The first shot was taken ONE WEEK after they used HWE on it.

The following photo is what it looked like after we remedied the situation (Dry Fusion on this occasion).

The point I am making is that ... a crap job like that does not make HWE a poor system. In the same way a carpet badly cleaned with HOST does not make HOST a poor system.

Derek,

chemicals, sticky residues, slow build ups of compounds

Some compounds a few years ago did leave those problems. Over a say, fifteen year period, I have not seen those sort of things happen with HOST. It seems to be head and shoulders above the other compounds that I have a working experience of.

Good discussion,

Garry

[Simon Gerrard]

Shut up, Derek or I'll cross you off my buddy list DEREK

Simon

[derek west]

i'm on your buddy list?, wooohoooo
if you carry on making buddies like this simon you'll have to upgrade what you write them on from a stamp to a post it note.

only joking.

garry

a fantastic way of putting your point across without getting shirty with my post, i applaud you and actually will now have an open mind about the new compound until i hear otherwise from the people i truly listen too, my customers.

and like you say, its the operator more so than the system used. i would of got that hallway just as good with trucky and bonnet.

[garry22]

Thanks,

Unlike yourself, lot of people would not bother with the bonnets. Once it's wet, it's wet. Again back to the integrity of the operative.

Here's something that just has to be true...

The worst ever dry cleaning compound was made by ME.

I tried to make a sort "commercial strength" stuff to use on the rougher jobs to save on HOST costs.

It was basically Prochem high PH traffic cleaner, a load of sawdust out of my Dad's shed and a few other "additives" (that I cannot remember) mixed together.

The trouble was (amongst other things), I did not sift the sawdust and ended up with wood shavings and chippings in the mix. Try vaccing that out of a looped poly carpet!

[David Rogers]

Here's a couple of photo's of a job we were asked to put right after another company messed up big time.

The first shot was taken ONE WEEK after they used HWE on it.

The following photo is what it looked like after we remedied the situation (Dry Fusion on this occasion).

The point I am making is that ... a crap job like that does not make HWE a poor system. In the same way a carpet badly cleaned with HOST does not make HOST a poor system.

Derek,

chemicals, sticky residues, slow build ups of compounds

Some compounds a few years ago did leave those problems. Over a say, fifteen year period, I have not seen those sort of things happen with HOST. It seems to be head and shoulders above the other compounds that I have a working experience of.

Good discussion,

Garry

Thanks for bringing some objective sense to this thread Garry. 

To the old 'boys club' fellas here who have clearly demostrated their wisdom and Yoda-like integrity, in the wake of my clear ignorance and noviceness, I'll leave you to continue to prop eachother's inflated egos up.

I'm bored with being patronized.    It's clearly about a new kid coming in here and putting some views out that the 'old school' don't like.

I'll be a good boy now, float into the background and just post the odd thread asking how to clean a Berber.

Congrats - yep, I won't hide it, you've well and truly p**** me off today.    Best day of my career in this business (financially and rewarding) and yet I'm repeatedly told I have a lot to learn and my methods of cleaning carpets don't have a valid market.

[David Rogers]

Simon has been around since the ark (in fact he probably cleaned it  ) so you would do well to take on board comments from people like him.

I never ever take advice from anyone, no matter how knowledgeable, that has no sense of modestly or humility.

The fact that Simon's been around since the ark does not mean that he has knowledge of the future of carpet cleaning, any more than someone like myself.

It really just means he has lot's of old stories about the time he sent his labourer for a 'long weight' [sic].

This thread has proven that those of you who are in the old boys club, really don't have a clue about VLM methods of cleaning.   It's great being from the ark (is it?) but where's the fonts of knowledge on a cleaning method like VLM that's been around for 50 years ??   

I know I will now have isolated myself from the 'boys club' ; ahhhhh..... my loss!   

 

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

David

I'm genuinely sorry you feel this way, but maybe you're right and you need to take a rest from the forum for a while.
You've only been on here for a fortnight and you've been pretty relentless in telling us all how LM and VLM is the way to go.
I've re-read a lot of the threads you have been involved in and the only common theme running through them is genuine and concerned advice from other cleaners, advising you not to put all your eggs in one basket.
It's your right not to agree or listen to that advice, it's your business after all - but equally we don't all have to agree that VLM is the future or on a par with HWE. That's the great thing about forums, it's all a matter of opinion.

I wish you all the best with your business direction, I hope it's a success. As far as forums are concerned, they are a bit like being in a pub - you need to develop a thick skin or you will be rucking all night.

[David Rogers]

Hello Steve,

D'you know I truly have not been relentless in telling people how good LM & VLM are.  I respect the good intent in your post but that is just not true.

What has actually happened is that the very mention of alternative cleaning methods to HWE saw a strong counter-reaction from people who clearly didn't know a lot on the subject, making silly statements comparing compound cleaning to 'shake & vac'.   I was also told that my business would fail where i was not offering HWE.

Where was I claiming that everyone should use LM and VLM? ........... where was I criticizing HWE?

I don't expect anyone to agree with me!!   I've been around forums perhaps more than you think and at 38 I should have a rough idea what makes the world go around!    But on a professional service forum, where we're all broadly trying to make a living by doing like-minded services, I didn't expect such a negative response to my thoughts and questions about taking the route I did.   

I've clearly upset the apple cart.

I don't know if your a moderator here Steve?    but I am assuming from your polite but suggestive request that I 'take a break from the forum' that you probably are.

I'll therefore take your request and refrain from posting.
 
But you know, you won't have much fun around here if every time sometime challenges the status quo and stands up for themselves, you tell them to 'take a brake from the forum for a while'.

David.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Hi David,

No I'm not a moderator, in fact it was you, who in an earlier post, suggested that you won't be posting much in the future. I was simply agreeing as you have been getting a bit upset by various replies.

No offence intended, as I said it's your business and you should take it in which ever direction you feel will be successful, and to repeat myself I wish you good luck with it.

[Simon Gerrard]

David,
You've not been patronised by anyone. People with a lot more experience than yourself have taken their time to offer you advice - not to belittle or patronise you but merely offering advice which you can take or leave as you see fit.
As for not having knowledge of the future of carpet cleaning, we operate one of the most powerful and sophisticated carpet cleaning systems on the planet that are at the very cutting edge of carpet cleaning technology. Whether you like it or not LM dates back to when our grannies used to shampoo their carpets with a Bex Bissell and 1001, indeed that technique gave birth to one of the most frequently asked question by customers, 'If I have my carpet cleaned will it look dirty again in a week.' That's what shampooing did, just clean the tops of the fibres and not deep down which is the reason most carpet cleaners frown upon it as an outright  cleaning system on anything other than low profile carpet.
VLM is a system that has been around for donkey's years and never really caught on by either the public or the carpet cleaning industry for anything other an titillating carpets in between deep cleans with HWE. The real downfall of VLM is the residues it leaves in the carpet and if carpets are repeatedly cleaned with that method you can end up with serious problems which is why carpets cleaned with that method should extraction cleaned periodically to remove those build ups.
If I were one of the oldies stuck in the past I'd be the one going down the LM & VLM route and you would be operating the leading edge technology.

David, this is just a difference in opinions that you have encountered, there's nothing personal about it but to insult people and make it personal is out of order.

Simon

 

[Neil Williams]

Whether you like it or not LM dates back to when our grannies used to shampoo their carpets with a Bex Bissell and 1001, indeed that technique gave birth to one of the most frequently asked question by customers, 'If I have my carpet cleaned will it look dirty again in a week.' That's what shampooing did, just clean the tops of the fibres and not deep down which is the reason most carpet cleaners frown upon it as an outright  cleaning system on anything other than low profile carpet.

OMG here we go again.
I'm saying no more

[derek west]

oh go on neil, ya know ya want to

[james roffey]

"I never take advice from no one no matter how knowledgeable" 

then why do you come on the forum obviously to preach to us  "The word" and that word is.

Low moisture is the future, well it aint.

I know what i am going to use on that loop pile wool berber on Monday, maybe some guys on here who have been around a long time are arrogant, big deal get over it, they are also a font of knowledge and have made loads of mistakes and are willing to help you avoid them, when a guy who runs a succesful business and has done so for many years to dismiss him as " jealous" because you think you have discovered some panecea and he is worried he is going to lose business.

GOOD GRIEF :

[David Ware]

Derek get your self a Flex 5, then Simon will invite you to our annual flexi 5 ball. Just the 2 of us, so plenty of room 
David