[Simon Gerrard]

We've discussed the merits or otherwise of padding.
So we might as well carry on down that track and discuss the merits or otherwise of Dry Compound Carpet Cleaning. John Kelly and others say it's a big deal up in the the North East. If that is true then we could all be missing out on some good business.
I'm going to get a bag of DC and give it a go as the Flexi 5 is perfect for it.
What's the going rate for it?
How does it compare to other systems?

Simon

[james roffey]

If you want to push a vac around all day give it a go , although i seem to be the only one that has trouble removing the sponges but the Gen 4  has brushes that push them deep into the pile so how is my Sebo with little brushes going to remove them all, answer it dont the carpet can look clear, until you walk across it then they start flicking them up again so yet more vaccing.
I spent almost a hour just vaccing a through lounge then gave up, they remain hidden better on patterned carpet, and show up most on dark plain colours.
i have stacks of the envirodri sponges sitting under my stairs i rarely use it and then only if i have to, the results can be very good but at least with HWE you can remove stains affectively too the sponges get everywhere and it's not dry .
A use it only as a problem solver ie Belgian wiltons so used it twice this year

[derek west]

okay, this is the last time i say this.

VLM is okay for a one off clean but if you keep cleaning the same carpet year after year eventually it'll need truckmounting to get all those stuck in sponges out. my customers have told me time and time again that it was clean the first time he did it but now you can't tell the difference after he's been. won't be using him again.

[Simon Gerrard]

Derek,

You're right. In my opinion any LM system, wet or dry is only a maintenance system and should only be done in between full deep cleans, at least that is how it should be done.

Simon

[wynne jones]

Simon

What would you say if you had a commercial carpet, been cleaned 10 years with LM and still keeps looking good, would you still HWE it?

[Simon Gerrard]

Wynne,
If I'd looked after the carpet for all of those 10 years and could see that it was not degenerating through poor maintenance then possibly not. What I wouldn't ignore is visible degeneration and then do nothing about it by upping the cleaning regime to suit the soil conditions, because I only do LM. That is why I think it is important to be in a position to clean any carpet in any condition and that often requires you to have more than one cleaning system at your disposal.

Simon

[David Rogers]

I think the fact that some people can't properly use the VLM system, is no reason to criticize the system itself.  I have had comments on here recently boldy stating that I clearly 'need training in HWE', yet people here are clearly practicing VLM incorrectly if they're unable to get the sponges out.  I've used a GEN4 and have no issues getting 99.9% of the compound back up. (It is scientifically certain that you're never going to get 100% up in the same way that HWE will always leave something behind).   Luckily, with VLM any small amount of left sponges are completely safe (arguably unlike the detergents left behind by a poor HWE machine), and will be removed on subsequent vacuuming.

VLM is something that more and more people are demanding. Commmercially, the immediate usability of the carpet is a no-brainer and in domestic situations people want their kids to be able to jump all over the carpet as soon as they get in from school.   VLM is also (usually) child & pet safe, which is an easy benefit to sell.

People can scoff it all they want but they are simply showing ignorance to a very valid and effective form of cleaning a carpet, that has a growing demand.

If you want to look at some quite good 'before & after' pics on VLM, take a look here:-

http://www.purelydrycleancarpets.com/#/host-results-2/4524958643

Anyway, the more of you 'truckers' that bury your head in the sand to VLM the better - more work for those of us who are on the game... 

[Simon Gerrard]

David,
If we truckers sensed a need for VLM then we'd use it. The fact is we just don't get asked for it. As I keep on saying, any professional carpet cleaner should have at his disposal all means to clean carpets regardless of location, type, colour, or soiling. In my view (and that counts for nothing) you are seriously diminishing your market by going down the LM and VLM route because you can only clean some carpet, not all carpets because your chosen systems just can't cope with some soil conditions.
I think you need a day out with a Truck Mount operator to see how serious money is printed, you'll soon see the error of your thinking.
Simon

[Colin Day]

I actually offer HWE primarily, LM 2nd and VLM too... I rarely have to mention the last two and the only time I have used either or one of the last two, was because I recommended it. (Sisal Rug, BW etc)

It's good to be able to offer any of the 3 effective methods

[derek west]

drying times from a truckmount are not much more than from VLM, i really don't see the point. i have poly props dry before i leave, and wools dry within an hour or so, ive never been asked for VLM cos when i mention my drying times theres no need for my enquirer to have that type of clean done.

really don't see the point.

and i'm sorry to finally disagree with you simon (cos we were on a roll   )  but i will not and never be offering this type of clean. and i really don't think it will effect my business one iota.

[Simon Gerrard]

Derek,
Don't worry bosom buddy I won't be offering it as a service either, not unless it's the only way of getting a carpet clean without taking undue risks.
Simon

[Colin Day]

Keeping your options open Simon? You never know when a reet posh ship will turn up with "Crucial Trading" carpets throughout

[David Rogers]

That's it guys.....  that what we like to hear.        Serious money. by the time you've factored in your huge truckmount costs, own water, own energy, etc, etc...... no doubt for a nice big commercial job that you'll claim needed the power-ranger like awesomeness of your truckmount (we all know that mucky carpets need 3000psi of pressure.....  )

 ....... that's right, a job that I could do with Dry Fusion, costing me 7p a sq. mt.   

Don't worry gents, just being facetious. 

It's funny though, because I've also been lectured on the business aspects of my 'poor decision' by the great wise around here, yet people here are now stating that they'd never adopt a certain carpet cleaning system, and it's clear that it's driven entirely out of some male ego issue.   It's true though isn't it?   ...... If you're honest Derek the only reason you hate the VLM system is because it's just too girly for you, compared to brandishing your shiny, high pressure wand?!   

Business....... peeps............ it's just business.

Incidentally, I'm not normally this obnoxious or arragont but I have taken some s*** on here in last week or so, and the great wise have proven on a few occasions that they really haven't got a clue on some aspects of business......

[james roffey]

Just for the record, i used the exact method that i was shown by Envirodri i met the local rep who came to my home and was shown the same nethod when i purchased the machine at the Envirodri unit in Kent, on most carpets it does not present as a problem and the results are quite frankly amazing, not better than HWE but appear as good.
But on two carpets i used the sponges on the first being a deep red thick pile bedroom carpet i got my first ever call back because the sponges were appearing after i had finished, i returned and vacuumed again, this did not work so i cleaned the brushes on the gen 4 and used it on its own to pull the sponges out then vacuumed after repeating this process several times i got them all out but and its a big "but" never again! so i avoid using them on these type of carpets in my oppinion the system is flawed because of this, on most carpets you never notice but they are still there, and for this particular customer who wanted all the sponges out as they really showed up on this red carpet, it was hard to argue so i didn't i just spent another hour removing them.

Perhaps a better vacuum may fix this problem but i use a sebo bs 36 which is the normal weapon of choice for most carper cleaners

[David Rogers]

James, some vacs are far better than others for picking up dry compound.  Personally, with the Envirodri, I'd only ever use a Sebo Dart, and later a BS46.

I have heard of some (muppets) using a Dyson to vac them up ..... that's never going to cut it.

What vac did you use on your bad experiences?

Also, did the rep demonstrate with a pre-spray?   Some do, and it often leads to worse results because the sponges will then potentially be gettting saturated with the pre-spray, rather than the dirt & grease.   I do use prespray with VLM but it needs to be handled carefully.  over-saturated sponges is one of the most common reasons for sponges being left behind.

[james roffey]

David

I have always used the Sebo bs 36 after it was recommended on the forums, i spoke to envirodri about my experience and they were less than helpful, not offering any explanation and this made me think they were aware of this problem.

if there is a problem with the prespray why are they selling it, or at least not telling us of the potential problems

[Simon Gerrard]

David,
Calm down, dear, it's only a forum.

There are people on here who have offered you their opinions on various systems who have long experience in the industry and experience is something you simply cannot buy, and if you have it you can offer it to others - that is all we are doing, sorry of it is at times it is not what you want to hear but I assure you it is given in good faith and with the best of intentions.
You've only been in the business 14 months, you have a lot to learn.

Simon

[justin brown]

dave, your pics on 'before and after' dry cleaning are very impressive.  i think i'ts a great you have shown the initiative to develop this method, the results are there for all to see

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I think what some are missing and Dave has grasped is the marketing potential of a single word and that is 'dry'.

Customers love it and it is a very clear message.

Most of us have the 'we will clean your carpets in the best way possible using our multitude of cleaning processes, which with our experience we will recommend the right method for you'.

True but a more difficult message to convey.

Cheers

Doug

[james roffey]

I started with the Envirodri system and still use the Gen 4 for agitation and dry compound but found the HWE much more versatile and affective especially at spot and stain removal the Envirodri does have its place and if you can make money doing it all credit to you but can it really be a coincidence that the huge majority of carpet cleaners world wide use HWE as the preferred method, if it were as good on the huge variety of carpets we clean day in day out then it would have been adopted by all the guys on here, and around the world.
 i am not dismissing it i have used it and it is amazing what it can do but i will keep it in my armoury of what i can offer my customers as an alternative only.