Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ortsa on October 04, 2021, 09:41:24 am
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Hi everyone,
Looking for some advice on how to actually get off the glass
I've got 2 vans with 2 guys who are filled with work and have nice rounds.
I've just bought and kitted out a 3rd van and looking to get more work for this van, but it looks like I will have to clean all this new work myself and be out there until there is enough work for a full time job for someone.
How has anyone else managed to get off the glass? Do you offer a part time job until the work is there? Do I have to be on the glass until I have 5+ vans and the existing guys can absorb the first clean workload.
Any advice welcomed. Thanks
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Get off the glass now if you really want to, what's stopping you?
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What does each guy turnover a day? How much do you pay them? How much do you need to earn yourself? Those are the key bits of information.
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I would say yes you do have to unless you are prepared to take a short term hit it income loss whilst you get to the goal.
I would bet if you came off the glass now and concentrated in marketing you would get to 5 vans in no time vs trying build and entire round and clean yourself.
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Problem is he has to find a decent window cleaner …… it’s catch 22, with the right staff u can move forward into management but try finding them.
I have job adverts out ready for a new guy to go into work but what applications we are getting just sent good enough to do the work.
I would be a happy man if I could get another decent lad on board
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What does each guy turnover a day? How much do you pay them? How much do you need to earn yourself? Those are the key bits of information.
Exactly this. You need to be turning enough profit off the vans to be able to afford to get off the glass
You can have 2 vans but if they’re only bringing in £50 true profit a day each you’ve not got a lot to play with
If they’re bringing in over £100 a day each and every day … and you can live off £500 a week you’ve got something
The goal is to get your vans bringing in decent amounts for you after wages and all expenses
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You can get off the glass at any point you wish - the answer is can you or do you want to afford coming off the glass - in any expansion/change there will be a fall off of YOUR income in the short term before it rolls forward again
( on here there are plenty who poo poo having staff - in the main they cant handle the fact that there are people who are happy to just take a wage and not have the "hassle" of running their own biz - there are others that want staff but don't want to pay them either a decent rate of on the books ) - if you harbour these thoughts - give up NOW!
To me your still a little skinny on work - I would get the 3rd van - work it myself part time and build up new customers - at the same time get a new member of staff - do training while your not overly pressured with work - then get them out with your current staff over 4 to 6 weeks learning the rounds etc... by then you should have enough in for them to go solo @ 30 hrs a week
I think then you cn leave the glass (except for the odd holiday cover/sick) and keep bashing out leaflets/canvass for work as you fill up then take on the next one - this will not really impact you at all then
Darran
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What does each guy turnover a day? How much do you pay them? How much do you need to earn yourself? Those are the key bits of information.
Exactly this. You need to be turning enough profit off the vans to be able to afford to get off the glass
You can have 2 vans but if they’re only bringing in £50 true profit a day each you’ve not got a lot to play with
If they’re bringing in over £100 a day each and every day … and you can live off £500 a week you’ve got something
The goal is to get your vans bringing in decent amounts for you after wages and all expenses
Profitability and income levels isn't an issue luckily as each van brings in very good money, its more about understanding the transition
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You can get off the glass at any point you wish - the answer is can you or do you want to afford coming off the glass - in any expansion/change there will be a fall off of YOUR income in the short term before it rolls forward again
( on here there are plenty who poo poo having staff - in the main they cant handle the fact that there are people who are happy to just take a wage and not have the "hassle" of running their own biz - there are others that want staff but don't want to pay them either a decent rate of on the books ) - if you harbour these thoughts - give up NOW!
To me your still a little skinny on work - I would get the 3rd van - work it myself part time and build up new customers - at the same time get a new member of staff - do training while your not overly pressured with work - then get them out with your current staff over 4 to 6 weeks learning the rounds etc... by then you should have enough in for them to go solo @ 30 hrs a week
I think then you cn leave the glass (except for the odd holiday cover/sick) and keep bashing out leaflets/canvass for work as you fill up then take on the next one - this will not really impact you at all then
Darran
Very helpful response and just what I was looking for, thank you, not time to put the pole down just yet it seems (maybe I'll miss it!)
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What does each guy turnover a day? How much do you pay them? How much do you need to earn yourself? Those are the key bits of information.
Exactly this. You need to be turning enough profit off the vans to be able to afford to get off the glass
You can have 2 vans but if they’re only bringing in £50 true profit a day each you’ve not got a lot to play with
If they’re bringing in over £100 a day each and every day … and you can live off £500 a week you’ve got something
The goal is to get your vans bringing in decent amounts for you after wages and all expenses
You can’t run a business on those figures with you getting 500 a week to live on and keep the vans on the road,no where’s near it.
You need cash behind you and enough to cover costs if things go wrong along the way as well as covering you’re bills etc,what happens if you are about to go to 3 vans and one of the other people Jack it in then you need to find 2 reliable people not just one for the new round.
You can never base 3 vans on what you would do as 1 when on you’re own profit wise,you need at least half what they take per day for you to be able to cover expenses and profit for yourself or it’s not worth considering if you had 3 vans imo you’d want 1800 a week for not cleaning a window.
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I can’t see anyone learning a route of work in 6-8 weeks that last not acceptable imo,it would take ages to learn certain routes if work especially rural work in areas where Satnav wouldn’t have much of a clue.
6-8 weeks what’s that 1-2 cleans nowhere near enough time to learn a round of shops spread over 2-3 towns let alone Rural jobs in the middle of nowhere.
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What does each guy turnover a day? How much do you pay them? How much do you need to earn yourself? Those are the key bits of information.
Exactly this. You need to be turning enough profit off the vans to be able to afford to get off the glass
You can have 2 vans but if they’re only bringing in £50 true profit a day each you’ve not got a lot to play with
If they’re bringing in over £100 a day each and every day … and you can live off £500 a week you’ve got something
The goal is to get your vans bringing in decent amounts for you after wages and all expenses
You can’t run a business on those figures with you getting 500 a week to live on and keep the vans on the road,no where’s near it.
You need cash behind you and enough to cover costs if things go wrong along the way as well as covering you’re bills etc,what happens if you are about to go to 3 vans and one of the other people Jack it in then you need to find 2 reliable people not just one for the new round.
You can never base 3 vans on what you would do as 1 when on you’re own profit wise,you need at least half what they take per day for you to be able to cover expenses and profit for yourself or it’s not worth considering if you had 3 vans imo you’d want 1800 a week for not cleaning a window.
i dont think you understand what profit means in a business
expenses should cover you annual running costs, wages, tax, insurance, repairs, rents etc etc
what is left is profit
in fairness i made an error in that post. in my business my own wages come under expenses so I get £133 profit off each van every day after those expenses
and then i use that profit to pay towards marketing, my own drawings etc
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I can’t see anyone learning a route of work in 6-8 weeks that last not acceptable imo,it would take ages to learn certain routes if work especially rural work in areas where Satnav wouldn’t have much of a clue.
6-8 weeks what’s that 1-2 cleans nowhere near enough time to learn a round of shops spread over 2-3 towns let alone Rural jobs in the middle of nowhere.
We have the exact co-ordinates of each job programmed into the app, I also have a system in which each job is fully documented, what to do and not to do, and how to do it. I recently sent my 2nd guy out on a group of 450 houses that he has never seen before and he hasn't called me once. To be honest it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
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I can’t see anyone learning a route of work in 6-8 weeks that last not acceptable imo,it would take ages to learn certain routes if work especially rural work in areas where Satnav wouldn’t have much of a clue.
6-8 weeks what’s that 1-2 cleans nowhere near enough time to learn a round of shops spread over 2-3 towns let alone Rural jobs in the middle of nowhere.
hahahahahahah..... you've got the measure of Nigel already!
using CP or equivalent its pretty basic to find your way around a route 95% of the time
Darran
We have the exact co-ordinates of each job programmed into the app, I also have a system in which each job is fully documented, what to do and not to do, and how to do it. I recently sent my 2nd guy out on a group of 450 houses that he has never seen before and he hasn't called me once. To be honest it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
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let me see....
number 3 the street next job number 8 the street - oooo errr thats a tough one to find ;D ;D ;D
Darran
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I can’t see anyone learning a route of work in 6-8 weeks that last not acceptable imo,it would take ages to learn certain routes if work especially rural work in areas where Satnav wouldn’t have much of a clue.
6-8 weeks what’s that 1-2 cleans nowhere near enough time to learn a round of shops spread over 2-3 towns let alone Rural jobs in the middle of nowhere.
We have the exact co-ordinates of each job programmed into the app, I also have a system in which each job is fully documented, what to do and not to do, and how to do it. I recently sent my 2nd guy out on a group of 450 houses that he has never seen before and he hasn't called me once. To be honest it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
He doesn’t
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130 odd quid from each van doesn’t get me excited I’m afraid about getting involved in anything
Like that,get decent work earn more on you’re own in 1 van than you’ll get from 3 and work when you like or get 1 person helping you half the graft and still earn more after you’ve paid him,just sayin.
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130 odd quid from each van doesn’t get me excited I’m afraid about getting involved in anything
Like that,get decent work earn more on you’re own in 1 van than you’ll get from 3 and work when you like or get 1 person helping you half the graft and still earn more after you’ve paid him,just sayin.
so , you are vat registered as a sole trader?
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130 odd quid from each van doesn’t get me excited I’m afraid about getting involved in anything
Like that,get decent work earn more on you’re own in 1 van than you’ll get from 3 and work when you like or get 1 person helping you half the graft and still earn more after you’ve paid him,just sayin.
Jesus Christ !!! ;D ;D
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in sticking 3 vans out on the road paying wages etc lol,yeah Jesus.
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in sticking 3 vans out on the road paying wages etc lol,yeah Jesus.
Have you ever done it? The hassle is all behind me, I'm 26 and earn £50,000 after tax and could work 2 hours a day on admin if I wanted to.
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in sticking 3 vans out on the road paying wages etc lol,yeah Jesus.
I feel exactly the same as you Nigel. far too much stress for me
but once again you have hijacked a thread forcing Your opinion.
you need to start understanding that for some people it gives them a buzz to employ , and they actually enjoy working through issues .
some fail and go back to being a one van outfit
some succeed where I dont have the balls to try.
to these I take my hat off.
the OP wasnt asking for your opinion on employing , he was asking for advice from those who do.
every wealthy success story will have failed, dusted down, and gone back to the drawing board.
thats what makes the world and people interesting . its the diversity of people doing things differently.
try to listen more , and less belittling of others ideas.
its ruining the forum
I imagine that there are many lurking n the forum desperate for advice , but are scared to ask because of the continuing put downs and negativity from your hijacking.... just saying !
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130 odd quid from each van doesn’t get me excited I’m afraid about getting involved in anything
Like that,get decent work earn more on you’re own in 1 van than you’ll get from 3 and work when you like or get 1 person helping you half the graft and still earn more after you’ve paid him,just sayin.
so , you are vat registered as a sole trader?
Are you getting sole trader and 1 man band mixed up? You can be a sole trader and have employees you know.
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130 odd quid from each van doesn’t get me excited I’m afraid about getting involved in anything
Like that,get decent work earn more on you’re own in 1 van than you’ll get from 3 and work when you like or get 1 person helping you half the graft and still earn more after you’ve paid him,just sayin.
so , you are vat registered as a sole trader?
Are you getting sole trader and 1 man band mixed up? You can be a sole trader and have employees you know.
the question was for nigel, who doesnt like employing but easily takes more than £400 a day
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Title should have been 'Actually getting off the tools' :-X
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in sticking 3 vans out on the road paying wages etc lol,yeah Jesus.
Have you ever done it? The hassle is all behind me, I'm 26 and earn £50,000 after tax and could work 2 hours a day on admin if I wanted to.
If you are going to grow to multi van, I hate to tell you but the hassle is all in front of you. ;D
Unless you’ve done it, you’ve no idea of the strife ahead. I’ve seen regularly people belittling the difficulties of running a multi van operation, but it’s stressful and at times the stress can be overwhelming. And once you come “off the tools” you’ll probably need 4 full vans before you earn what a really good one man band can earn.
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Nigel can’t even decide if he has 1,2 or 3 vans, if he employs or not or if he’s VAT registered or not, take what he says with a huge pinch of salt. He’s a clueless troll.
Oh, and please stop quoting his posts, I still have him on ignore and would rather not see his posts, thanks ;D
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Nigel can’t even decide if he has 1,2 or 3 vans, if he employs or not or if he’s VAT registered or not, take what he says with a huge pinch of salt. He’s a clueless troll.
Oh, and please stop quoting his posts, I still have him on ignore and would rather not see his posts, thanks ;D
spot on there
the knxb jockey should have been banned for longer
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I'm 26 and earn £50,000 after tax and could work 2 hours a day on admin if I wanted to.
Just remind me what your question was mate ?
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I'm 26 and earn £50,000 after tax and could work 2 hours a day on admin if I wanted to.
Just remind me what your question was mate ?
It should have probably been 'how to actually get off the glass AND grow'
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I'm 26 and earn £50,000 after tax and could work 2 hours a day on admin if I wanted to.
Just remind me what your question was mate ?
It should have probably been 'how to actually get off the glass AND grow'
You know, Lee Pryor has answered this question before and it seems in keeping with other peoples experiences. No one can sell your own business like yourself. When you get to the point you don't want to do it anymore, then your conundrum is where do you get the money to drive it foreward leaflets /canvassers for example ? I think the answer is you'll have to do it untill you can afford to pay someone to do it for you ?
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in sticking 3 vans out on the road paying wages etc lol,yeah Jesus.
Have you ever done it? The hassle is all behind me, I'm 26 and earn £50,000 after tax and could work 2 hours a day on admin if I wanted to.
If you are going to grow to multi van, I hate to tell you but the hassle is all in front of you. ;D
Unless you’ve done it, you’ve no idea of the strife ahead. I’ve seen regularly people belittling the difficulties of running a multi van operation, but it’s stressful and at times the stress can be overwhelming. And once you come “off the tools” you’ll probably need 4 full vans before you earn what a really good one man band can earn.
Good post 8weekly spot on m8 really said it all if you are small and earn really good money and have nice work it’s more of a dilemma,you could have 3 vans on the road loads of hassle and be earning less than you were on you’re own.
If you work alone and only manage 150-200s worth of work a day of course the prospect looks better with a couple more vans,depends what part of the country your in as to what you’ll earn on you’re own or with multiple vans.
It’s all been said before if you’ve got 20 vans what are you getting out of it not only money but quality of life and time to do what you want when you want,how many vans or staff you have means nothing apart from when your puffing your chest out down the pub it’s what you get out of it at the end of the month compared to staying small and still earning very similar money without the staff and overhead grief.
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And just to add 8Weekly it would probably be more than 4 vans m8 tbh.
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The more you turn over the more the banks will love you and Chuck money at you,it’s like Monopoly money though its not yours although it looks like it on the bank statement if you paid 100,000s worth of loans back you may be left with 10-15000 that’s yours,that would be a common example of most small businesses when you delve a bit deeper big turnover small profit after all those staff and overhead costs,someone said to me once you need to go huge or stay small if you are in the middle you are the meat in the sandwich that gets eaten up with overheads.
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You are funny NWH ;D
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The more you turn over the more the banks will love you and Chuck money at you,it’s like Monopoly money though its not yours although it looks like it on the bank statement if you paid 100,000s worth of loans back you may be left with 10-15000 that’s yours,that would be a common example of most small businesses when you delve a bit deeper big turnover small profit after all those staff and overhead costs,someone said to me once you need to go huge or stay small if you are in the middle you are the meat in the sandwich that gets eaten up with overheads.
really ?
my brother had 22 staff I think, so a SMALL company , and sold his business for several million, in 2017! he started in 2010 he had no debts , it was all his money although he would have paid his solicitors a hefty price
whilst I agree with some of what you say, i disagree with a lot also.
my poor brother . ;D ;D
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but was it a window cleaning business ?
Only the mighty (Kn@b) Nigel can run a successful window cleaning company :o
Darran
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NWH is a legend
Talks complete b******s but entertaining 😆
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Yes I now look forward to his posts - he makes me lol so much what a 🤡
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You have 3 vans out that do 300 each and you take 50% say after fuel and wages but not vehicle repairs and the need to pay for resin-poles and all else that goes with it,here’s the thing you can easily go out and do 4-450 on your own you don’t have multiple van insurance holiday pay etc X 3 as well as the above,
How does this work do you make money from it or am I missing something on top of what you’d make on you’re own,is their money in it or does it just give someone the opportunity to say yeah but mine is a business because I have a few vans and employees,just a thought.
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I’m sure I’ve missed out countless other things an employer would have to pay for when having just 3 employees 1 being a premises that is able to supply water for 3 people every day,maybe this is why people go down the hard to control franchise route because the above example doesn’t look very appealing to me.
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You have 3 vans out that do 300 each and you take 50% say after fuel and wages but not vehicle repairs and the need to pay for resin-poles and all else that goes with it,here’s the thing you can easily go out and do 4-450 on your own you don’t have multiple van insurance holiday pay etc X 3 as well as the above,
How does this work do you make money from it or am I missing something on top of what you’d make on you’re own,is their money in it or does it just give someone the opportunity to say yeah but mine is a business because I have a few vans and employees,just a thought.
if only they earn as little as that a day !
The point is Nigel the mind set to running with staff is different from a sole trader - all you see is money lost - I see more work and money gained + I don't have to clean anything either... ;D
We don't just do windows - when doing roof cleaning the guys are bringing in 5x what windows do
Darran
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You have 3 vans out that do 300 each and you take 50% say after fuel and wages but not vehicle repairs and the need to pay for resin-poles and all else that goes with it,here’s the thing you can easily go out and do 4-450 on your own you don’t have multiple van insurance holiday pay etc X 3 as well as the above,
How does this work do you make money from it or am I missing something on top of what you’d make on you’re own,is their money in it or does it just give someone the opportunity to say yeah but mine is a business because I have a few vans and employees,just a thought.
Essentially you are correct. However, the OP will be able to get ill now and still have income.
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Then I would say it would be a lot less hassle to have insurance cover for the above rather than having the hassle I suggested.
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Then I would say it would be a lot less hassle to have insurance cover for the above rather than having the hassle I suggested.
Hmmm. Not sure about that. I’ve always understood those policies aren’t great but I’m not an expert.
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You have 3 vans out that do 300 each and you take 50% say after fuel and wages but not vehicle repairs and the need to pay for resin-poles and all else that goes with it,here’s the thing you can easily go out and do 4-450 on your own you don’t have multiple van insurance holiday pay etc X 3 as well as the above,
How does this work do you make money from it or am I missing something on top of what you’d make on you’re own,is their money in it or does it just give someone the opportunity to say yeah but mine is a business because I have a few vans and employees,just a thought.
if only they earn as little as that a day !
The point is Nigel the mind set to running with staff is different from a sole trader - all you see is money lost - I see more work and money gained + I don't have to clean anything either... ;D
We don't just do windows - when doing roof cleaning the guys are bringing in 5x what windows do
Darran
A common theme on here, you’re getting mixed up with sole trader and one man band, a sole trader can have employees😉
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I stand corrected - but for purposes of being polite I didn't want to use the term "One Man Band" ( or woman/ uno binary )
Darran
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Nothing wrong with 1 man bands when you start getting the calculator out and comparing it to 2-3-4 man bands,the truth is if you come off the tools you need to be doing big numbers to cover all costs and be anywhere near to what you need-want get out of it money wise.
Without trying to be negative on this topic if you earn very well when you are still small it can make it seem more difficult when trying to expand,you would expect or need each van to be returning very similar numbers to you or in you’re head you are going backwards.
Bare in mind an employee won’t put the effort in you would and 4 weeks holiday and a week average on sick days would need to be taken into account with lost income,the futures bright the futures brown 🤣🤣🤣
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your lol'ing at your non coheirant post again Nigel
As said it might be going back in your mind but that says more about you than anything else.....
Darran
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Obviously thought provoking I would think if I had to bet quiet a few people may agree with me,maybe not who knows everyone’s position and expectations are different depending on what they can do on average on a daily basis.
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I think someone was saying they could do 4-450 on their own yet with help only managing an extra 100,even if you put them on their own bare in mind they won’t be as keen to knock out work like you do even with incentives it’ll soon lag costs will have to be counted in with a van etc.
After wages and running costs per day that extra 100 -150 working with you won’t be far off what you’ll still end up with as an employer,am I missing something again.
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I think someone was saying they could do 4-450 on their own yet with help only managing an extra 100,even if you put them on their own bare in mind they won’t be as keen to knock out work like you do even with incentives it’ll soon lag costs will have to be counted in with a van etc.
After wages and running costs per day that extra 100 -150 working with you won’t be far off what you’ll still end up with as an employer,am I missing something again.
So your response to someone asking ‘how to get off the glass’ should have been …
‘I don’t know. I haven’t managed to do that successfully myself. When I tried it was too hard for me and I couldn’t work out how to make enough money to make it worthwhile’
Or alternatively, you could have read the title and thought … huh… maybe this will be an interesting topic for me to watch and maybe learn something from. But I don’t have anything useful to add so I won’t say anything 🤔’
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Well said that man
Nigel - yes someone did post that but in the context that the employee is very slow - you have scooped this up as gospel that all staff in all companies work to this level - that’s not the case and if you read the other thread properly instead of huffing and puffing about your limited perceptions then you would have seen many good posts
Try not to concentrate on negatives all the time
Darran
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I’ll try that Dazza it’s not very nice when someone just picks the odd comment out and jumps on it 👍
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I’ll try that Dazza it’s not very nice when someone just picks the odd comment out and jumps on it 👍
but that's what YOU do all the time i'm afraid.......
Darran
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Here’s a question:
If you had 3 vans out (3 staff) turning over at least £300 a day each 46 weeks of the year (which takes holidays / sickness into consideration) and were flat rate VAT registered - would it make you money without having to do any of the manual work yourself?
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Put it this way it wouldn’t be worth the trouble for what you’d get out of it financially,don’t forget it won’t be 900 a day coming in every week of the year it just doesn’t work like that in this job.
The franchise model may work better financially but you have no control over how it’s run day to day really in reality,you could start off with a very good name in a business franchise it and watch its reputation dwindle overnight almost.
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Here’s a question:
If you had 3 vans out (3 staff) turning over at least £300 a day each 46 weeks of the year (which takes holidays / sickness into consideration) and were flat rate VAT registered - would it make you money without having to do any of the manual work yourself?
Barely. Without going into actual daily figures, my friend who has a solid round at the VAT limit was earning more than me until I got to 5/6 vans. Each van does about the same a day as he does, but he has a paid off van and based at home. But he has a really solid one man business with very little outgoings - fuel, insurance and consumables.
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Here’s a question:
If you had 3 vans out (3 staff) turning over at least £300 a day each 46 weeks of the year (which takes holidays / sickness into consideration) and were flat rate VAT registered - would it make you money without having to do any of the manual work yourself?
Of course it would.
£900 x 230 = £207k
£207k - 16.5% = £173k
- 3x £25k wages
- 3x £15k expenses
= £53k
But the investment in 3 vans and filling them up with work would be considerable. Keeping 2,000 or so customers organised would be no small task, and managing 3 members of staff as well.
My expenses wouldn’t allow a lot for ongoing marketing, you might need to replace 2-400 customers a year.
Trouble with staff or a blown up van could see you left with only £30-40k, and most people would be able to make that kind of money on their own in fairly short hours without any major hassle.
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Here’s a question:
If you had 3 vans out (3 staff) turning over at least £300 a day each 46 weeks of the year (which takes holidays / sickness into consideration) and were flat rate VAT registered - would it make you money without having to do any of the manual work yourself?
Of course it would.
£900 x 230 = £207k
£207k - 16.5% = £173k
- 3x £25k wages
- 3x £15k expenses
= £53k
But the investment in 3 vans and filling them up with work would be considerable. Keeping 2,000 or so customers organised would be no small task, and managing 3 members of staff as well.
My expenses wouldn’t allow a lot for ongoing marketing, you might need to replace 2-400 customers a year.
Trouble with staff or a blown up van could see you left with only £30-40k, and most people would be able to make that kind of money on their own in fairly short hours without any major hassle.
But if you wanted to get “off the glass” that’s what you’d need to be looking at minimum 👍
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Here’s a question:
If you had 3 vans out (3 staff) turning over at least £300 a day each 46 weeks of the year (which takes holidays / sickness into consideration) and were flat rate VAT registered - would it make you money without having to do any of the manual work yourself?
Of course it would.
£900 x 230 = £207k
£207k - 16.5% = £173k
- 3x £25k wages
- 3x £15k expenses
= £53k
But the investment in 3 vans and filling them up with work would be considerable. Keeping 2,000 or so customers organised would be no small task, and managing 3 members of staff as well.
My expenses wouldn’t allow a lot for ongoing marketing, you might need to replace 2-400 customers a year.
Trouble with staff or a blown up van could see you left with only £30-40k, and most people would be able to make that kind of money on their own in fairly short hours without any major hassle.
If you were growing your business by a van a year and paying an outside agency to canvass/deliver leaflets, marketing costs would all buy wipe that profit out.
I’m assuming it’s flat rate vat? You’d need a unit in addition (in my opinion), you’d have water charges too. If the vans were on hp your costs might be tight. On £300 a day with VAT and paying £25k a year we’d be wasting our time. There would be virtually no profit. They’d need to be doing around £380 - £400 a day unless there were no HP costs or unit costs. My mate would be on about £75k profit. Van paid for and working from home. With my minimum salary and all profit in dividends I’d be on much less than that.
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You could have 1 person working full time in a van doing the bulk if you have decent work if you yourself worked 2-3 days a week imo you’d be better off than your 3 vans financially and far less stressed as it’s easier to organise,it’s all about how quickly and easily you can get to you’re number per day without knocking your pipe out every day-week. Makes no difference how many vans or staff you have within reason in this job I mean,every area of the country is different what might be a good days work in one place might just be a couple of jobs in another.
If coming off the tools is so important to you get the right person it can be done with 1 employee,ok you edge your bets if they were to leave but you are in a similar position if you have 3 vans and you lose 2 employees makes no difference.
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There are lots of other things to consider and currently your all assuming a multi van biz just does windows at £300 a day
A good percentage of works could/would/should be gutters, s/f/g wash, conny's etc.. this would raise the daily totals by at least 50% without the need for extra staff
One man band if pretty full will earn more than someone with just 3 employees - however each depends on circumstances as to the end profits - one thing is for certain - as a one man band if you don't go out cleaning your not earning - holidays, time off sick etc... no money - get a long term illness and your £60k profit is gone maybe forever
Darran
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I can’t see anyone learning a route of work in 6-8 weeks that last not acceptable imo,it would take ages to learn certain routes if work especially rural work in areas where Satnav wouldn’t have much of a clue.
6-8 weeks what’s that 1-2 cleans nowhere near enough time to learn a round of shops spread over 2-3 towns let alone Rural jobs in the middle of nowhere.
We have the exact co-ordinates of each job programmed into the app, I also have a system in which each job is fully documented, what to do and not to do, and how to do it. I recently sent my 2nd guy out on a group of 450 houses that he has never seen before and he hasn't called me once. To be honest it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
I would be really interested to hear more about your system for this. Would you be willing to share at all? It sounds really good. I could do with this for my lads, i was thinking about upgrading my system of doing things for a while just not got round to it.
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The above maths shows how little spare there is unless you’ve got 5+ Vans
Doesn’t seem any point to me unless you CANT work for some reason the bit from 2-5 vans you’d have to carry on working to make it work financially
Also your relying on 10 other people with 5 vans if one or two for any reason can’t work and you have to replace them and retrain new staff you aren’t gonna be able to hit the same numbers for a while and you’d be losing money
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I would agree with that particularly if you only did windows - but its not always about what you get in the short term - long term and expansion will more than pay for itself.
there are things to consider - are you suited to manage staff - its not easy and certainly difficault giving up control - you have to accept staff will not always do that extra step - ( from some posts here sole traders are not willing to go that extra step either )
yes as a sole you earn way more than an owner of 2 or 3 vans but you have to do the work yourself and are limited in income by being on your own.
The idea of multi van set-up is you keep moving forward - there is no longer a need to be on the tools - the role changes - window work is like clockwork ( I could take 6 weeks off and return without the place missing a beat )
Doing other services is where its at - S/F/G cleans - conservatories - gutter clearing - these can be done daily (2 or 3 a day) every day bringing in over twice the window clean rate - and there's no interruption to regular windows while doing this work.
Darran
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I agree with all that Darren says but you don’t need umpteen employees to get paid for doing little,let’s say for example you had 1 person you could rely on or maybe 2 if you have the right work they’d be doing enough for a good rate for them and a wage for you.
If you invested initially in a decent vehicle and they are half sensible human beings without a lead right foot you wouldn’t have vehicles repair bills every other week,if they are able to hit good numbers without breaking their backs day in day out and it’s pleasant work to do you may keep them.
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Its 2 different mindsets, business owner vs self employed job.
I think a big reason why a lot try employing then go back to being solo or small is because they never went into it with the mindset of business owner but with creating a job for themselves. Its hard to let someone else loose on what is "your baby".
Totally different mindset from an entrepeneur whos sole aim was to build a money making system from the start, they dont have the emotional attachment to being the technician, its simply numbers on a spreadheet.
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That’s nonsense if it was able to be done from an office with no emotional attachment it would be a National business done by many and by big companies,think every aspect of this business through and think why it’s not being done you might be able to make sense of it.
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Its 2 different mindsets, business owner vs self employed job.
I think a big reason why a lot try employing then go back to being solo or small is because they never went into it with the mindset of business owner but with creating a job for themselves. Its hard to let someone else loose on what is "your baby".
Totally different mindset from an entrepeneur whos sole aim was to build a money making system from the start, they dont have the emotional attachment to being the technician, its simply numbers on a spreadheet.
very true. also some people like me just cant handle the stress. it takes a certain type of person to be a multi van business.
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An entrepreneur wouldn’t choose this business or if they did they’d soon realise that they need 1000s upon 1000s of customers and if they don’t know how it works ie how long jobs take what can be done and just in general.
Multiple van setups you see about 99% of the time are run by people that have done the job for some years maybe traditionally also and gradually built the business.
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It’s a lifestyle job from which you can earn a very good living it ain’t been that many years and only very recently really that members of the public have realised this,seems like yesterday when you’d said what you did for a living and they would say yeah but when are you gonna get a proper job or are you just doing it as a stop gap.
When you’ve been at this job for years it’s so easy to forget how easy a life we all have just driving round picking up money colouring in glass,life’s too short to contemplate employing 5-6 idiots to upset my life 🤣🤣🤣
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So for me it is a case of I would rather work on my own and for myself, but the customers I have always want more and more done so I took on a lad to help out and more work came in so got another lad. Both have done 10 years or more for me.
Am not chasing the dream just keeping customers happy and getting through the work but more work comes along so am now in a position we’re the 3 vans all go out daily. I encourage the 2 lads to do longer hours but less days so they do there 40 hours ( all work is commercial ) in between 3.5 - 4 days a week and do a few bits for them selves which am happy about.
I take lads out regular just to look at there standards of work and just to see how they are after an hour or so, if I don’t get a good feeling am not interested in keeping them.
Am in the market for a new guy now who I will do the same as other lads were they can get there hours in ( as long as work done properly ) in less than 5 days and have longer time off. It’s just a case of finding them or training them up from scratch.
I could easy afford to stop working on the glass and just mange them but what do I do then….
U can only grow a business and get off the glass if u have good staff, good staff will keep u informed of what’s going on and deal with most problems themselves.
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Its 2 different mindsets, business owner vs self employed job.
I think a big reason why a lot try employing then go back to being solo or small is because they never went into it with the mindset of business owner but with creating a job for themselves. Its hard to let someone else loose on what is "your baby".
Totally different mindset from an entrepeneur whos sole aim was to build a money making system from the start, they dont have the emotional attachment to being the technician, its simply numbers on a spreadheet.
Exactly this
Build the business which is right for you
There’s no right way or wrong way
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The main reason why people go back to being on their own or keeping it smaller is because of the hassle they’ve had when they employed in most cases you mean,nothing to do with mindset if you’ve pushed to do it you have the mindset in a lot of cases you are let down by employees time and time again,this business would be a walk in the park if you could get people that were reliable and didn’t have endless personal issues.
This job seems to attract people with alcohol issues disruptive home life’s that then become your problems,it’s not setting it up to work it’s easy enough you are mirroring what you do X whatever it’s the people and some will say you get these people in all businesses but I tell you something there’s a lot of them that look for work in ours.