[Roy Harding]

A woman came up and asked me to clean her shop  windows, as her window cleaner came about 9:30am and would get in the way of people viewing her products.
I knew the window cleaner and told her I would speak to him.
I told him and since then he has cleaned her windows about 8:30am.

I have always tried to be fair with all my fellow window cleaners. However the same window cleaner about a year later took a job from me with out a word.

But a few months latter a very large commercial contract contacted me and asked for a price. I knew this was one of his jobs and I without hesitation put in a price and my tender was £30 per clean more. They gave me the contract and I have been doing it for the last 15yrs.

Do you feel that because we know the window cleaner we should not canvass a job or price one if asked to?

If there was a large contract and you knew the window cleaner and did not tender, and found out that a large nationwide company got it, how would you feel?

I always try to play fair but business is business.


Roy 

[D woods]

Hi Roy
We operate in London (commercial only) and we and every other company
that I am aware of take any contract that is offered , without a second thought.

It is not nice but that is just the way it is

[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

Roy,your last sentence sums it up "business is business",it is also a well known saying that you have no friends in business.
If it was down to anyone not taking a job simply because we knew someone else then this forum would be a very lonely place as we would all be out of business.
This applies to all trades,if you were invited to tender for a job you would be mad to refuse it just because you knew the existing contract cleaner/window cleaner/carpet cleaner.
Existing contracts become available for 2 reasons,either not happy with the service or not happy with the price,and nine times out of ten it is the first one.-John

[Morph]

I probably operate on a different level to you guys.
I do not take business from other windowcleaners knowingly.
If someone calls me: Maybe they are not happy with their w/c for whatever reason.  I ask, "have you let him know he is sacked?" If yes, then ok.  I will quote, it's an open market.
If I call on someone: Maybe they have w/c they're not happy with.  Same rules apply.
I let them know I don't want to be dropped just because someone else calls.
So I don't want it done to me, I don't do it to others.  Maybe I haven't got the killer instinct.  It's worked most of the time for 19 years for me.  I have a good reputation with some.  I know I do, and I believe that still counts more than most things still.

One of my jobs springs to mind.  I've been doing it every 6 weeks for 3 or 4 years.  I know for a fact another company quoted £90 to do the job, I quoted £150!!  I got it.  They said they didn't like the look of the guy or the company's reputation!
I try not to comment on that too.  No need to knock the competition.

[stuart webster]

I probably operate on a different level to you guys.
I do not take business from other windowcleaners knowingly.
If someone calls me: Maybe they are not happy with their w/c for whatever reason.  I ask, "have you let him know he is sacked?" If yes, then ok.  I will quote, it's an open market.
If I call on someone: Maybe they have w/c they're not happy with.  Same rules apply.
I let them know I don't want to be dropped just because someone else calls.
So I don't want it done to me, I don't do it to others.  Maybe I haven't got the killer instinct.  It's worked most of the time for 19 years for me.  I have a good reputation with some.  I know I do, and I believe that still counts more than most things still.

One of my jobs springs to mind.  I've been doing it every 6 weeks for 3 or 4 years.  I know for a fact another company quoted £90 to do the job, I quoted £150!!  I got it.  They said they didn't like the look of the guy or the company's reputation!
I try not to comment on that too.  No need to knock the competition.

Spot on Pj.


The Bear

[Roy Harding]

We have 4 main window cleaners in Monmouth besides myself, as my original comment. The window cleaner approached me saying you undercut and nicked my contract.

I pointed out the occasion with the shop, and he had been the one who had started to pinch work, and therefore I said if it was good enough for him it was for me.

Most of the window cleaners don’t talk to  each other, however they all talk to me and I cover there shops if they go away.

I do agree with pj as that is how I operate.

However Business is Business should we be more thick skinned, such as more than one builder may tender for a build. But they don’t fall out with who gets the job.

Roy

[stuart webster]

Your right  Roy, there should be no reason for anyone to fall out.

We have good relationships with all the window cleaners here, if someone asks us to quote and we dont clean that area, we pass them another WC's number.

We never knowingly under quote, in fact, for our area were one of the more expensive!

The Bear

[windows_chepstow]

If there was a large contract and you knew the window cleaner and did not tender, and found out that a large nationwide company got it, how would you feel?

Roy,

I'm lucky in one respect because I doubt a large-nationwide company would want any of my work.

I have tread-on-toes and been threatened with violence twice (I think that's a compliment though; they obviously saw my potential).  But it's difficult not to when you start up from scratch.

Now, I would avoid taking accounts from window cleaners who I get on well with.

But if I don't know the window cleaner; then it's fair game; particularly if it's commercial work, which is what I'm aiming to get this year.

Business is business; as you and 'they' say.

At present, I only have one 'class' (by my own low standards) commercial account and if Ian_Giles nicked it, I'd have to let his tyres down on his shiny new van mind!

[Ian_Giles]

It is a good point isn't it, where do we draw the line?

If you play hardball you are going to raise total animousity with every window cleaner in your area.
We already have one like that in our area, he isn't that popular with most of the window cleaners around us.
He'll take work off anyone, you have to watch what you say to him too, give him a little to much info and he is in their like a flash lopping a fiver of the price and taking it off you.
And you do your fellow window cleaner a favour, then he owes you one.
You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours and so on.

If I don't know the window cleaner in question I do at least try to find out the reason they wish to change, I never offer to beat their price.
I'm usually shaking my head and telling the customer, "Well, I'll do my best on the price, but I can't guarantee I'll be able to match what they were charging you."
If I can find out what they were charging I'll do that too, and if they try the poker  face stuff on me I make sure I go in well high.

If someone dumps on me and takes an account off me, maybe they have been caretaking my round for me and know the prices I charge (That isn't a dig Rog!!!) and didn't at least warn me they weren't happy with the service I was providing, then it would be gloves off time.
I wouldn't actively tout their work, but I'd take it without a thought should the opportunity arise.

It's all very well playing hardball, but it can come back and bite you in the backside.
I like the fact I get on with most the window cleaners around me, that I can share ideas, call them up for a chat or advice or an answer to a question.

It's finding where to draw the line is the trick

Ian

[rosskesava]

I think one point that gets forgotten is that a window cleaner cannot 'take' anothers work.

The customer, whether commercial or otherwise, is the one who decides 'yes' or 'no'.

I take the veiw that if a customer asked me for a quote then that is up to them. I don't force anyone to ask me. If they have a problem with their current w/c then that is between them and the w/c concerned and is nothing to do with me.

If I give a quote I price it on what I think the jobs worth unless sometimes with commercial work when they will say what their paying already.

I think that people or compamies only change w/c's when they are not happy with that w/c or company.

As for undercutting just to get work, that's a mugs game.

Cheers

[Moderator David@stives]

I take any job that is offered to me .If the customer is not happy with there cleaner ,they are not happy full stop.
And if i dont take it somebody else usually will.

If i know the previous cleaner i usually ask them the score as to why they have changed cleaners and 9 times out of ten it is because the cleaner usually has it on their b list for some reason,
sometimes price ,sometimes location.

I will never undercut to get work in fact quite the opposite.

[Roy Harding]

I think one point that gets forgotten is that a window cleaner cannot 'take' anothers work.

The customer, whether commercial or otherwise, is the one who decides 'yes' or 'no'.

undercutting just to get work, that's a mugs game.

Cheers

I think your right Ross.

Roy

[matt]

ive got some1 who has been door knocking around on my main area, offering to do them at 3 quid cheaper, i was shocked, as a 6 quid house for 3 quid cannot pay

BUT

i was speaking to a guy last week and he does 2 houses at the end of the road i do (i do 33 of the 40 houses) and he charges 10 quid for a house i charge 6, and this other guy will do for 3

the only winner in the undercutting game is the customer

[rosskesava]

Hi Matt

the only winner in the undercutting game is the customer

Last year we lost a row of £10 nice quick and easy jobs to someone who'd leafleted them saying he'd do it for £5.

As all the people know each other, they all changed all at the same time and the person who runs the tennants things at least had the decency to phone up and say why.

Six months later, we were back doing their windows but this time with a stronger type of business relationship partly because I sent each customer a polite letter thanking them for their past custom.

Cheep w/c's will come and go all the time.

The person charging £3? How long will he last?

Cheers

[clairekuccuk39]

Hi everyone,

This is an interesting post but i can honestly say we have never seen it as taking work from anyone or anyone taking work from us.  A customer is free to take his custom wherever he likes but price isnt always the deciding factor as we have found out because my husband has never won a customer through being cheaper than anyone else. In fact i think he is more expensive than most down here.  If someone wants to defect then just forget about them because as is always being said on this forum, there is another customer just round the corner.  I think its good to be friendly with other window cleaners because if you are running your business properly, you arnt that bothered about what they are doing anyway.

Claire

[busydaffodil]

People spend their money how they please. If they want to change window cleaner/ shop/hairdresser, etc it is THEIR choice, THEIR money.    Who are we to dictate how they spend it?  Refusing to quote on the basis that its another windows cleaners work is rather silly in my opinion.   The customer is obviously unhappy & is actively looking for a replacement.   Why not be that  replacement?   

[AuRavelling79]

Busydaffs: "Jump!"

Malc Gold: "How high, mistress?"

[DP]

Are you not debating the issue of "Control" something which really only remains firmly with the client as others have mentioned. Therefore does it really matter as you cant do anything about it apart from keeping your customer happy. If its not the guy you know, it will soon be the guy you dont?

[dai]

Well here's a moral dilemma. What would you do if approached by a company for a price. You already know that their present widow cleaners, a big commercial outfit charge £250 for the job. They think this is too expensive. You know that you could do the job in a day and potentially this could be your best paying job at £200. Dai

[windows_chepstow]

Well here's a moral dilemma. What would you do if approached by a company for a price. You already know that their present widow cleaners, a big commercial outfit charge £250 for the job. They think this is too expensive. You know that you could do the job in a day and potentially this could be your best paying job at £200. Dai

I'd take it for £200!  But not at the expence of a window cleaner who I knew and liked.

In fact today I spoke to two window cleaners and in passing I found out they cleaned two commercial properties on my mailshot 'hitlist'.

I've now taken those properties from my mailshot.  (Rogiet Hotel and George Hotel).

I'm now not going to make friends with anymore window cleaners that I already know.

It is difficult isn't it?

[Roy Harding]

Tosh

I think its best not to know who does what. Then you can mail shot all.

Then if someone does ask you for a quotation, then ask how often and put a price in your happy with.

Over the years I have had many customers say other window cleaners had knocked on their door canvassing. But normally if they are happy with the service they stay with you.

Then on the other hand there is one large B+B, who if they were a £1 cheaper you would be history and if someone else was cheaper they would be gone as well.

I think some good points have been raised in some of the posts, like if you’re asked to quote it’s because the customer is not happy. And if there not happy they will change be it to you or the next guy who calls.

As we all have said many times, be reliable and trustworthy also polite and make it known to your customers if they are unhappy with anything tell me. As if I don’t know I can’t put it right, so good communication is vital.

Also if you know  one of your jobs is going to be canvassed at some time it does keep you on your toes. I do some top class jobs and you have to back it up with a first class service.

And I hate to loose a job; I lost a hotel once that used to pay £320 cash every 4wks. That really did smart, my brother in law said give them a ring and tell them that you will beat the price they had been given. He said you have nothing to loose, against my gut feeling I did. The owner said “if you could have done it cheaper you should have done it years ago” It took a long time to get over those words. Then 2wks later got a big contract that more than replaced it.

I suppose the moral is shake the dust from your feet as there is another job around the corner, and it was good while it lasted.

Roy   

[Rob_Mac]

I employ a lad who's mother was having a local window cleaner do her windows- so when she asked us to do the windows I said I would do them for nothing - can't charge an employee!!!!!.

Couple of months ago his auntie came over - we do charge her but again one of the other window cleaners customers.

He saw the lad who works for me and said he was going to shove my pole up my a**e and other not nice comments.

I am 6' 5'' and 18.5 stone, I will bend over backwards to be polite to anyone but if you cross me that is a mistake. I take s**t from no one.

I saw this other window cleaner the other day and pulled up alongside his car.

I politely told him that if I wanted to I would set about taking every single customer he has.

If he continues bad mouthing me I will put out thousands of leaflet per month everywhere he works till he has nothing left.

I have got on with my own business for the last five years and have never gotten in anyones way. I have always charged what I felt the value was for each clean.

I don't need his work - a lot of it seems to be poorly paid and he doesn't seem to do a very good job - if I get it I will charge my prices.

I don't mess with people till they mess with me but when they mess with me I come out on top one way or the other.

Business is business

Rob

[zeusjazmin]

a guy i am very friendly with started his own round 4 weeks ago,i was very surprised when a customer showed me a leaflet put through his door.
turns out my friend who knew i done that street had put the leaflets through the doors looking for work.
i had a few polite words with him advising him that it was my street
and he should canvass the lots of streets i dont do.
as it turns out i have phoned him with lots of new customers ,the ones in the streets i dont do who asked me to clean theirs
if someone in my streets were not happy with me then yes he should go ahead and clean them,but he has got more houses off me than he would have had by knocking my street.
now i know there is no such thing as "my street"but the small village in question has not had a cleaner for years so i was the only one
i have turned down work to pass on to my friend so i think fair is fair

[dustycorner]

Hi.

I will not knowingly take a take work of a domestic w/c but will chase commercial work and see it has each man for himself.

I try to build up working relationships with all other wc's i meet and on 2 occasions to date i have swapped sections of rounds with other w/c  to compact  my round, saving on time, travel, and petrol.

Cheers Mark.