Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« on: December 27, 2010, 08:24:31 pm »
Shurflo pump(no pressure switch) with digital controller(Brodex built in but its probably a Varistream)

It cycles every few seconds when i stop the flow and thats whether its connected to the reel or not,bloke at Brodex said it was normal. Makes no difference if the flow or pressure setting is adjusted low or high so its consistent.
          I just thought it ought to shut off and stay off until i start the flow again but it has always behaved like this. Flow stopped, then the pump stops then it starts for a couple of seconds and stops and just continues this cycle until the flow starts again,i can understand whats happening and i was thinking maybe the pump internals cant hold the pressure,seems a waste of battery power and wear and strain on the pump so if this is or isn`t normal could anyone clue me in?

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 08:51:07 pm »
Whats it calibrated at?

Additionally, have you got air in the system?

paul saunders

  • Posts: 1110
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 08:53:28 pm »
Mine is exactly the same (shurflow / varistream) and it does the same as yours. As far as I know this is what they do.  ;)
I can remember when waking up stiff in the morning was a good thing.

Lee GLS

  • Posts: 3843
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 08:54:19 pm »
i havnt got a brodex setup, but i do have a shurflo pump with a controller and it does the same, it cycles every couple of seconds, its normal, on my controller it flashes DE ( dead end detected), its basicly the pump getting ready to be in use again, mine does have a pressure switch, and eventually the pressure switch does cut in and the pump stops, but if you dont have a pressure switch it wont stop.

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 09:04:13 pm »
I have been running at  "e" as i have 100m of 6mm microbore,came set at "c" but been messing today at "b",low flow 1 and 2 and high flow,makes no odds,i would like it to stop and stay stopped,seems its normal though.

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 09:12:49 pm »
Cheers for the replies,i`m not happy with the way the pump behaves,if i want to stop cleaning at the back of someones house and start talking/drinking tea etc.  it just doesn`t feel right to know the pump is working away under stress basically.

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 10:07:42 pm »
Cycling the pump can reduce its lifespan. It should stay stopped,.. perhaps clicking in once every 2 or 3 minutes just for a moment to boost pressure.

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 10:46:12 pm »
Anyone got a shurflo with varistream digital controller that stays stopped for at least a good bit of time as Mr. Jones describes ?

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 10:51:03 pm »
Sean what have you got it calibrated at? When I asked that before I didnt mean what do you run it at. There is ANOTHER setting to conisder with a pump and controller. This is the calibration setting which determines how sensitive the cut off point is once water stops flowing (when you turn your pole hose tap off or simply disconnect your hose)

Off course there could also be air in the system, whcih can be compressed (by comparison to water, and therefore the pump runs continually)

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 11:13:49 pm »
Calibration setting set up instructions requested,been swotting up on here about the digi-varistreams but havn`t a clue what you mean. Please inform.

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2010, 11:16:14 pm »
Calibration setting set up instructions requested,been swotting up on here about the digi-varistreams but havn`t a clue what you mean. Please inform.

do u mean how you re cal it?

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 11:19:04 pm »
Calibration setting set up instructions requested,been swotting up on here about the digi-varistreams but havn`t a clue what you mean. Please inform.

do u mean how you re cal it?



Dont know nothing about cal or re-cal.

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 11:23:20 pm »
to re cal is easy just pressed the down arrow and the enter button  till cal comes up and then press up till u get to what u want  i use 45  adn then press enter and it should reset its self



Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2010, 11:35:56 pm »
Well thats the adjustments i have been playing with ,i have settings a to f and have set it each time on a different one(switched off then on for that setting to be stored),then on each setting i have adjusted the flow rate to the least and then the highest(,the pump behaves exactly the same on any combination of settings.Does seem other people have the same behaviour and the bloke at Brodex said its normal, but is it? Its not brodex kit,its a shurflo pump and digi-varistream with brodex written on it.


♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 12:30:27 am »
Anyone got a shurflo with varistream digital controller that stays stopped for at least a good bit of time as Mr. Jones describes ?

Yes, me. ;)

It stops dead, then just every now & then it will click, not even a full turn just to nip up the pressure.

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 12:36:36 am »
Well thats the adjustments i have been playing with ,i have settings a to f and have set it each time on a different one(switched off then on for that setting to be stored),then on each setting i have adjusted the flow rate to the least and then the highest(,the pump behaves exactly the same on any combination of settings.Does seem other people have the same behaviour and the bloke at Brodex said its normal, but is it? Its not brodex kit,its a shurflo pump and digi-varistream with brodex written on it.



Sean

You don't just have A to F in the pressure cut of settings. You also have 1 to 9. Crazy I know but the setting for pressure on the Digi varistream go-----

123456789ABCDEF       

1 being lowest & F being the highest.

I reckon you might have the cut off set too high. If you have any leaks whatsoever in the system including the reel, even a drip, at this high setting the unit will pick it up & compensate the loss of pressure by cycling.

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 12:48:37 am »
I think the term "calibrating" is being used in the wrong context here also. The pump pressure settings are factory calibrated, you are just selecting & changing between the values on offer.

You are changing the setting & not recalibrating it. ;)

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2010, 07:56:49 am »
mine cut out and stops dead never had a problem always done this .



have you wired it up probaly or was it fitted by somone else.???

was the pressure switch disconnected from the pump.?????

Dave Willis

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2010, 08:42:27 am »
Same as Winpro, as has been mentioned any air in the system and it will  keep pressurising, poor quality hose too will keep expanding and any leaky connections will have the same effect.

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2010, 11:05:30 am »
I`ll be having another dabble shortly,was pretty sure i didnt get an option of numbers with the letters though as in it went down to a and then wouldn`t go under this,only upwards back to f. I can take hose reel etc. out of the equation as the tank is plumbed internally and has a water outlet that is plugged into to get flow. So i have everything disconnected and the pump switched on and just 2 foot of pipe inside behind this from the pump outlet.  Oh forgot the di circuit,anyway i will be minutely inspecting the lot. Got a feeling this is electrical. There is no pressure switch on top of the pump.

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1965
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2010, 11:23:43 am »
You may have a slight leak along the line somewhere. I had a similar problem and found by taking the various fittings apart, adding some tape and rejoining all was ok after that.

Paul Coleman

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2010, 12:19:47 pm »
Well thats the adjustments i have been playing with ,i have settings a to f and have set it each time on a different one(switched off then on for that setting to be stored),then on each setting i have adjusted the flow rate to the least and then the highest(,the pump behaves exactly the same on any combination of settings.Does seem other people have the same behaviour and the bloke at Brodex said its normal, but is it? Its not brodex kit,its a shurflo pump and digi-varistream with brodex written on it.



Sean

You don't just have A to F in the pressure cut of settings. You also have 1 to 9. Crazy I know but the setting for pressure on the Digi varistream go-----

123456789ABCDEF       

1 being lowest & F being the highest.

I reckon you might have the cut off set too high. If you have any leaks whatsoever in the system including the reel, even a drip, at this high setting the unit will pick it up & compensate the loss of pressure by cycling.

I don't have a Varistream but those numbered/lettered settings aren't as crazy as they first seem.  If they needed 15 settings, using A-F for 10-15 is reasonable as it saves using 2 digits for a setting.  If the designer had a computing background and the settings are on a chip, it makes even more sense.  0-F are the "numbers" used in hexadecimal (base 16).  16 is the number of combinations that can be used in half a byte (nybble).  There is probably a circuit board inside and the half byte that is used for this setting is about the four "switches" in the half byte being on or off (1 or 0).
I've never seen one of these things close up.  Can anyone confirm that a chip is used for this?

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2010, 12:27:10 pm »
Well thats the adjustments i have been playing with ,i have settings a to f and have set it each time on a different one(switched off then on for that setting to be stored),then on each setting i have adjusted the flow rate to the least and then the highest(,the pump behaves exactly the same on any combination of settings.Does seem other people have the same behaviour and the bloke at Brodex said its normal, but is it? Its not brodex kit,its a shurflo pump and digi-varistream with brodex written on it.



Sean

You don't just have A to F in the pressure cut of settings. You also have 1 to 9. Crazy I know but the setting for pressure on the Digi varistream go-----

123456789ABCDEF       

1 being lowest & F being the highest.

I reckon you might have the cut off set too high. If you have any leaks whatsoever in the system including the reel, even a drip, at this high setting the unit will pick it up & compensate the loss of pressure by cycling.

I don't have a Varistream but those numbered/lettered settings aren't as crazy as they first seem.  If they needed 15 settings, using A-F for 10-15 is reasonable as it saves using 2 digits for a setting.  If the designer had a computing background and the settings are on a chip, it makes even more sense.  0-F are the "numbers" used in hexadecimal (base 16).  16 is the number of combinations that can be used in half a byte (nybble).  There is probably a circuit board inside and the half byte that is used for this setting is about the four "switches" in the half byte being on or off (1 or 0).
I've never seen one of these things close up.  Can anyone confirm that a chip is used for this?

Haven't a clue what you're on about Shiner? ;D

The unit has a TWO digit display & could display in either all numbers or all letters?

Just seems weired to have a chromatic series of parameters which display in both numbers & letters.

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2010, 12:47:22 pm »
Been dabbling away,have the 123456789abcdef etc., i have to run at  a or above or the pump will start cutting out and cycling below this and not hold steady flow.Now when i go above a (its cycling at this setting with flow stopped),the cycling gets steadily more aggressive until at d with the flow stopped the pump doesn`t actually stop and the water can be heard agitating inside the pump,i reckon its releasing the water backwards to ease the pressure,at this setting , its got to be able to do something else it would just burn out. This setup i have has two digi-controllers so i have switched them over with identical results. So i am set at "a" with 70m of 6mm microbore,flow rate of my choosing 1 to 9 and its all hunky dory except the pump wont ever stay off for more than 2-3 secs with the flow stopped.

I am hoping the fact that the pump will run continuous at a higher pressure setting with flow off is a clue and maybe someone is going to tell me i have a dodgy diaphragm seal or similar unless i am missing the know how to adjust the cut off sensitivity that someone mentioned.

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2010, 12:49:54 pm »
A small one way valve at the pump inlet might help,..

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2010, 01:56:31 pm »
A small one way valve at the pump inlet might help,..

I see where your thinking comes from here and worth a try,however just to totally confuse matters its possible this pump has an internal bypass assembly and that would explain it not stopping at the higher pressure when flow is cut-off.

So it will be used as is which quite possibly is how its meant to be.

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2010, 02:02:47 pm »
I thought only flowjet pumps had an internal bypass?

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2010, 02:10:34 pm »
A small one way valve at the pump inlet might help,..

I see where your thinking comes from here and worth a try,however just to totally confuse matters its possible this pump has an internal bypass assembly and that would explain it not stopping at the higher pressure when flow is cut-off.

So it will be used as is which quite possibly is how its meant to be.

I don't know your set up Sean BUT can you not actually see if the pump is set up with a bypass or not? I can't think of a reason why it would if it's fitted with an electronic controller.

6mm hose will always require higher settings from the pump as there is more resistance. To give an example, I have 1/2" hose from my tank to pump & then through two 11ltre DI's then to reel. My reel has 90m of 8mm minibore & my settings are-

Cut off = 7 (6 in summer) & flow = 1.  With these settings matched to my system I get a really nice flow rate with virtually no pressure in the system. It's very reliable & constant regardless of the height of the pole. My pump cuts out approx 5 seconds after I disconnect the pole & restarts almost immediately on re connection, with no big burst of water at the brush.

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2010, 02:27:18 pm »
Been dabbling away,have the 123456789abcdef etc., i have to run at  a or above or the pump will start cutting out and cycling below this and not hold steady flow.Now when i go above a (its cycling at this setting with flow stopped),the cycling gets steadily more aggressive until at d with the flow stopped the pump doesn`t actually stop and the water can be heard agitating inside the pump,i reckon its releasing the water backwards to ease the pressure,at this setting , its got to be able to do something else it would just burn out. This setup i have has two digi-controllers so i have switched them over with identical results. So i am set at "a" with 70m of 6mm microbore,flow rate of my choosing 1 to 9 and its all hunky dory except the pump wont ever stay off for more than 2-3 secs with the flow stopped.

I am hoping the fact that the pump will run continuous at a higher pressure setting with flow off is a clue and maybe someone is going to tell me i have a dodgy diaphragm seal or similar unless i am missing the know how to adjust the cut off sensitivity that someone mentioned.


Well you know how to alter the settings Sean by the sounds of it & I assume you know that to "keep" any new setting you must switch the unit off, then back on again using the unit's own on/off button.

Does sound strange though, I mean if you did have a leak, you would know about it by now.

The only other thing I can think is that the pump is sucking air in?  When you re connect your pole after some cycling does the flow spit/cough/fart out of the jets for a while before the flow constant & smooth?

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2010, 04:45:15 pm »
No farting on re-start,everything spot-on. Got a spare shurflo with pressure switch and know this has to be taken out of the circuit if i need to fit it and i might just tommorrow as a comparison. The destructions that come with this show diagrams of shurflo pumps with no pressure switch and an internal bypass and i wonder if these were supplied to Brodex and hence i have one. Theres no shurflo model no. on the pump just Brodex bumf but the specs it does show are the same as the 8000-946-138 which i have bought as my spare.

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2010, 04:54:44 pm »
i cant believe the advice your being given ??? ??? ??? ???
simply put brodex are correct
a varestream is simply a potentiometer slowing down your pump by reducing the power supply to it
eg, if your pump is rated at 10lpm 100psi @ 5amps and you use a varistream at 50% to pump 5lpm the pressure will also reduce by 50% to 50psi also amps to 2.5 when you turn the water flow off the pump will continue until the pressure in your pipes reaches 100psi and then the pressure switch will cut the power to the pump
after time the valves may ware slightly and allow a very small amount of water to flow back to the tank then the pressure switch will start the pump to boost the pressure back to 100psi

 this is normal  :) :)

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2010, 05:07:06 pm »
i cant believe the advice your being given ??? ??? ??? ???
simply put brodex are correct
a varestream is simply a potentiometer slowing down your pump by reducing the power supply to it
eg, if your pump is rated at 10lpm 100psi @ 5amps and you use a varistream at 50% to pump 5lpm the pressure will also reduce by 50% to 50psi also amps to 2.5 when you turn the water flow off the pump will continue until the pressure in your pipes reaches 100psi and then the pressure switch will cut the power to the pump
after time the valves may ware slightly and alow a very small amount of water to flow back to the tank then the pressure switch will start the pump to boost the pressure back to 100psi

 this is normal  :) :)

It should have at least 2 seconds "off" time between cycles:

http://aerocoachinc.com/scripts/pdfretail/get.php?id=286

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2010, 05:21:43 pm »
i cant believe the advice your being given ??? ??? ??? ???
simply put brodex are correct
a varestream is simply a potentiometer slowing down your pump by reducing the power supply to it
eg, if your pump is rated at 10lpm 100psi @ 5amps and you use a varistream at 50% to pump 5lpm the pressure will also reduce by 50% to 50psi also amps to 2.5 when you turn the water flow off the pump will continue until the pressure in your pipes reaches 100psi and then the pressure switch will cut the power to the pump
after time the valves may ware slightly and allow a very small amount of water to flow back to the tank then the pressure switch will start the pump to boost the pressure back to 100psi

 this is normal  :) :)

I can't believe what nonsense you just wrote! ::) ;D

The pressure is separately adjustable, it DOES NOT return to 100psi unless you have set it to do so! ;)

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 05:31:34 pm »
are you as daft as a brush
the pump will continue until the set pressure is reached by the pressure switch

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 05:37:21 pm »
are you as daft as a brush
the pump will continue until the set pressure is reached by the pressure switch

Exactly! That's what I'm saying Bazil ::)

It was you who stated that the pressure would only cut off at 100psi, not me! ::)

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 05:47:57 pm »
winp this is like watching the blind lead the blind ;D

if a pump is rated at 10 lpm at 100psi and 5amps if you reduce the power by 50% the pump will then run at 5lpm 50psi and use 2.5 amps but the pressure switch will still turn  off at 100psi
if you stop the flow the pressure in the pipes is 50psi the pump will continue until the pressure reaches 100 psi the pump pressure switch will then turn the pump off ;) ;) ;D
exactly what i said earlier ,basil ;D ;D

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 05:59:43 pm »
Am cycling every 4 to5 seconds, i`ve got the orange 8mm hose coming from ionics so will get to play with settings again very soon.

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 06:34:44 pm »
winp this is like watching the blind lead the blind ;D

if a pump is rated at 10 lpm at 100psi and 5amps if you reduce the power by 50% the pump will then run at 5lpm 50psi and use 2.5 amps but the pressure switch will still turn  off at 100psi
if you stop the flow the pressure in the pipes is 50psi the pump will continue until the pressure reaches 100 psi the pump pressure switch will then turn the pump off ;) ;) ;D
exactly what i said earlier ,basil ;D ;D


Stephen

You are so wrong my friend. The pumps own pressure switch is bypassed with a varistream.

If what you are saying is true, then what on earth are the pressure cut off settings on a digital varistream which go............ 123456789ABCDE??

Come guys, help me out here ::)

To prove you wrong, if I set my pressure cut off value to 9 my hose end connector leaks with the pressure. When I set it to 7 it does not as there isn't enough pressure build up to make it do so! AND THAT IS ONLY TWO INCREMENTS DIFFERENCE. Imagine if I cranked it up to F.

FFS get a grip!!!! ;D ::) ::)

Nameless Drudge

  • Posts: 997
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 07:15:44 pm »
I think the rheostat has confused itself with a potentiometer rendering the superhetorydene transmission frequency oscillator locked in a positive feedback and unable to synchronise.

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2010, 07:26:30 pm »
I think the rheostat has confused itself with a potentiometer rendering the superhetorydene transmission frequency oscillator locked in a positive feedback and unable to synchronise.


I reckon Stephen's ran off with a bright red face!!!!! ::) ;D ;D ;D

Pee's me off when numpties jump in trying to make themselves look clever. I've tried my best to try & help you with this problem Sean. Even if I Can't sort your problem it's still frustrating to put all that effort in then Bazil Brush there comes along & throws a bent spanner in the works!!! ::) ::) ;D

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2010, 07:58:59 pm »
I hope you're not questioning his sexuality, bent spammers and all

 ;D ;D

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2010, 08:06:30 pm »
I hope you're not questioning his sexuality, bent spammers and all

 ;D ;D


And to add insult to injury HE calls ME blind & daft as a brush!! ;D ;D ;D

Don't you just love it? :D

What he says about reducing power etc. is all correct TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, we know & understand that bit. BUT what he's saying is that the cut off values are none existent or ineffective as the pump will still only cut out at 100psi anyway!!!
Which is ridiculous & not true of course. ;)

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2010, 08:19:17 pm »

winp  just got back in had to go out
if i am wrong i will hold my hand up :-*
i was describing the first brodex and original varistreams
the digital varistreams are slightly diferent but this is where you can educate me

how dose the varistream (digital) turn the pump off


paul saunders

  • Posts: 1110
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2010, 08:29:32 pm »
Actually, you are both right ............. well sort of, if the varistream is set at 100psi, regardless of the flow setting, the pump will cut out at 100psi, if the varistream is set at 60psi it will cut out at 60psi, if the varistream is set at 120psi ............ you get the picture (before anyone says anything about not going to 120psi it was just an example). If memory serves me right, the varistream cut of is 100psi and on the one I have that is (c), so if (c) is 100psi then (d,e,f) must be higher than 100psi.

Having said that, if you reduce the power by 50% I doubt that 6.35volts would be enough to run the pump. ;)
I can remember when waking up stiff in the morning was a good thing.

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2010, 08:30:43 pm »

winp  just got back in had to go out
if i am wrong i will hold my hand up :-*
i was describing the first brodex and original varistreams
the digital varistreams are slightly diferent but this is where you can educate me

how dose the varistream (digital) turn the pump off




You tell it (via the setting values) at what pressure to cut the power (stop pump). You can control both speed (flow) AND pressure i.e. you can have a low flow but a lot of pressure. So you can set it to cut off at (example) 20psi, 30psi, 40psi - 100psi etc.

So, you see now why we were getting Sean to set the pressure cut off to a lower value?  100psi is some pressure & could invite no end of problems. My 1/2" barbed elbows on my system are retained by plastic tie wraps, not jubilee clips, never had a leak or one blow off.

Group hug? :-*

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2010, 08:33:33 pm »
Actually, you are both right ............. well sort of, if the varistream is set at 100psi, regardless of the flow setting, the pump will cut out at 100psi, if the varistream is set at 60psi it will cut out at 60psi, if the varistream is set at 120psi ............ you get the picture (before anyone says anything about not going to 120psi it was just an example). If memory serves me right, the varistream cut of is 100psi and on the one I have that is (c), so if (c) is 100psi then (d,e,f) must be higher than 100psi.

Having said that, if you reduce the power by 50% I doubt that 6.35volts would be enough to run the pump. ;)

Actually, that only proves me right! ;D ;D

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2010, 08:53:19 pm »
please re read amps not volts

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2010, 08:55:30 pm »
please re read amps not volts

Get with the times Stephey, ditch the old & get a new'un! ;D

paul saunders

  • Posts: 1110
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2010, 09:00:54 pm »
please re read amps not volts

sorry, my mistake ............. you did indeed say amps.  ;)

But, you also said ............... "if you reduce the varistream's power by 50%"
I can remember when waking up stiff in the morning was a good thing.

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2010, 09:02:53 pm »
You tell it (via the setting values) at what pressure to cut the power (stop pump). You can control both speed (flow) AND pressure i.e. you can have a low flow but a lot of pressure. So you can set it to cut off at (example) 20psi, 30psi, 40psi - 100psi etc.
 
are you saying you can set the pump to run at 1lpm @100psi or 10lpm at 10psi?
i asked befor what or how dose the controler know how or when to turn the pump off

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2010, 09:08:10 pm »

You tell it (via the setting values) at what pressure to cut the power (stop pump). You can control both speed (flow) AND pressure i.e. you can have a low flow but a lot of pressure. So you can set it to cut off at (example) 20psi, 30psi, 40psi - 100psi etc.
 
are you saying you can set the pump to run at 1lpm @100psi or 10lpm at 10psi sasked befor what or how dose the controler know how or when to turn the pump off


Yes.

However, in reality, resistence in the system (connectors, hose bore size etc.) will not allow certain settings to work. You'll not get 10lpm at 10psi through small bore hose for example.

This is why systems with 6mm hose have to use higher pressure & speed settings to those with 8mm or 13mm hose.

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2010, 09:10:51 pm »
How does it know to do this?

It senses the pressure somehow. I use it, I didn't build it.

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2010, 09:17:33 pm »
That would explain why my mates could always pee higher in the john, mine was always a lot bigger and didnt need the same pressure

 ;D ;D ;D

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2010, 09:19:32 pm »
That would explain why my mates could always pee higher in the john, mine was always a lot bigger and didnt need the same pressure

 ;D ;D ;D

Hey, never thought of that batman. Might explain why I can never get it up the wall!!!! 8) ;D

stephen.b1

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2010, 09:20:06 pm »
It senses the pressure somehow. I use it, I didn't build it.


as i said befor it is basicaly a potentiometer with the ability to moniter the used amps and to adjust the amps  the screw you adjust is to ajust the sensiitivity of the moniter (basicaly)

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2010, 09:24:31 pm »
It senses the pressure somehow. I use it, I didn't build it.


as i said befor it is basicaly a potentiometer with the ability to moniter the used amps and to adjust the amps  the screw you adjust is to ajust the sensiitivity of the moniter (basicaly)

That wasn't the debate Stephen & still isn't!

With my pump, the mechanical pressure switch has been removed, totally. No screws etc left. The electronic unit does everything! Speed AND pressure. ;)

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2010, 09:41:59 pm »
no the debate was about the broadex controler
and most people advised him to ajust his system
when in fact broadex had said it was fine
i described a original pump controler and you said iwas totaly wrong and we then went on about the digital varestream which i asked you to educate me into how it works or you think it works
and you admited you didnt know i think that is where we are now

Dave Willis

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2010, 09:57:12 pm »
The various VariStream Auto-Compensating Flow Controller gives waterfed pole users a sophisticated electronic flow adjustment to allow them to regulate their water flow during the cleaning process.

The VariStream 2 unit can be retrofitted to virtually any water fed pole window cleaning system which uses a 12vDC pump to deliver pure water to the end of the telescopic pole.

Once installed, the VariStream 2 does away with the functionality of the pressure switch on the pump, and digitally controls the electrical supply to the pump. This allows a full range of water flow rate adjustment from maximum all the way down to zero. The user simply dials in their preferred water flow rate on the VariStream 2 and can then start work cleaning windows.

The inbuilt "Auto Compensating" software is continually sensing the load on the pump and adjusting the output of the of the pump to ensure that precisely the required amount of water is delivered to the end of the pole. With a standard pump, as the water fed pole is extended for higher windows, the load on the pump increases and the amount of water at the end of the pole decreases. VariStream 2 compensates for this automatically, ensuring a constant and controlled flow of water, whatever height you work at.

VariStream 2: The Benefits

 Total control over the flow of water from the end of the pole. Whatever height you work at VariStream 2 adjusts the pump to compensate and maintain flow.

 Auto shut off: When you disconnect the pole at the end of the job VariStream 2 detects pressure change and shuts off the pump, saving water and battery life.

 Water saving is essential when you are working far from your source of ultrapure water. Varistream 2 allows you to control your water consumption to ensure your water lasts until you return to base at the end of the day for a refill.

 The pressure switch is the main wearing part on any water fed pole pump. By eliminating use of the pressure switch, the VariStream 2 improves pump reliability meaning less time spent servicing your equipment.

 The majority of water fed pole systems use a tank of filtered water on a vehicle plus an additional ion-exchange resin cartridge which "polishes" the filtered water to further reduce contaminants. By allowing controlled reduction of water flow through the system the VariStream 2 improves the life of the expensive resin cartridge, thus saving the operator money on a daily basis.

stephen.b1

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2010, 10:03:26 pm »
broadex are still right
basicaly ;)
as i undertand it the digital varestream operates by adjusting the amps thus increasing or slowing the pump down the controler also monitors the amp load ie if you stop the water flow the pump uses mor amps and cuts the power to the pump it re starts the pump by reseting itself by turning the power on if you have not connected your pole  it will turn off again possibly ever 3/4 seconds ;) ;)

stephen.b1

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2010, 10:16:41 pm »
there is no need to alter the varistream as it is working correctly
did you know there are 12 volt drills  with the same type of system incresing the speed to maintain the same torque

Dave Willis

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2010, 10:26:19 pm »
It turns the power back on to sense the pressure. It shouldn't need to start cycling unless the pressure has dropped so it sounds like the pressure is dropping either back through the pump itself or after the pump. Simples really.

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2010, 10:43:25 pm »
no the debate was about the broadex controler
and most people advised him to ajust his system
when in fact broadex had said it was fine
i described a original pump controler and you said iwas totaly wrong and we then went on about the digital varestream which i asked you to educate me into how it works or you think it works
and you admited you didnt know i think that is where we are now

No, I was trying to help the OP solve his problem with his Varistream controller. You butted in half way without paying any attention to what had already been said, with some silly nonsense trying to look clever. It went down like a lead balloon & now you are trying to lessen the embarrassment.

It didn't wash then & it doesn't wash now. ;D

Now, that's where we are. ;)

Nameless Drudge

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2010, 10:51:02 pm »
It turns the power back on to sense the pressure. It shouldn't need to start cycling unless the pressure has dropped so it sounds like the pressure is dropping either back through the pump itself or after the pump. Simples really.

And thats the root cause of it ,it has to start working again to realise it needs to stop again hence the cycling every 4-5 secs which seems within tolerances and therefore working as it should.

Dave Willis

Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2010, 10:55:57 pm »
Depends if you mean the controller is cycling or the pump is cycling. By your description everyone thinks you mean the pump is actually pumping every few seconds as opposed to sensing every few seconds.

alanwilson

  • Posts: 1885
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2010, 10:58:26 pm »
right I've had enough of thee blind leading the blind.

the varistream is designed to run a cycle every few seconds to determine the current draw from the pump - if the pole is disconnected or the trigger not engaged then the current draw is high, the varistream senses the extra draw and sutss down the pump, unless it checks every cuple of seconds then there is no way for the varistream to know if the trigger has been pulled or pole reconnected.

when setting the cut off on the varistream all you are doing is altering the current draw at which the varistream will switch the pump off.

open flow - easy for pump to run - very low current draw
closed flow - too much backpressure for pump to run easily - very high current draw

I've never been to bed with an ugly bird but I've woken up with loads!

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2010, 11:05:29 pm »
Depends if you mean the controller is cycling or the pump is cycling. By your description everyone thinks you mean the pump is actually pumping every few seconds as opposed to sensing every few seconds.

Yep, that's what I was assuming, the pump cycling.

It's normal for the unit to switch on & off for the reasons Alanwilson describes.

Pleeeeeeease don't tell me this is what you mean? ;D ;D ;D

Nameless Drudge

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2010, 11:13:27 pm »
Switch on and off?,isn`t that cycling if its happening every few seconds,i think i asked if this was normal.

Nameless Drudge

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2010, 11:15:01 pm »
And it can`t sense unless it trys to pump

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2010, 11:23:42 pm »
Switch on and off?,isn`t that cycling if its happening every few seconds,i think i asked if this was normal.

Well I can give you a definite answer. It's normal! ;D

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2010, 11:26:10 pm »
winp did you not read this

Posts: 133



    Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #58 on: Today at 10:03:26pm »    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
broadex are still right
basicaly
as i undertand it the digital varestream operates by adjusting the amps thus increasing or slowing the pump down the controler also monitors the amp load ie if you stop the water flow the pump uses mor amps and cuts the power to the pump it re starts the pump by reseting itself by turning the power on if you have not connected your pole  it will turn off again possibly ever 3/4 seconds    
 
  
   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is no need to alter the varistream as it is working correctly
 
 

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2010, 11:29:51 pm »
winp


no you didnt if you had thought it normal why try to get himto alter the settings why didnt you gust say its normal mate ??? ;D ;D ;D

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2010, 11:36:07 pm »
winp


no you didnt if you had thought it normal why try to get himto alter the settings why didnt you gust say its normal mate

Look, clever cloggs ::)

His own words "my pump is cycling" NOT "my varistream is monitoring" ::)

When someone describes a pump as cycling they "usually" mean it's turning, as in turning several revolutions.

I did read your post "58"  and you were stating the obvious, which we all know.

However, it's apparent now that the pump in question is not cycling, but rather monitoring!

You haven't proved anything bar what was already known, only realised you didn't know how the V2 unit works! ::)

Nameless Drudge

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2010, 11:38:12 pm »
I am glad i asked.

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2010, 11:40:01 pm »
I am glad i asked.

 ;D ;D ;D

Look what you started. I've got an "Ewan" stalking me :o :o

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2010, 11:52:25 pm »

quote    I did read your post "58"  and you were stating the obvious, which we all know.

if i was stating the obvious why did you advise him to change settings

quote   You haven't proved anything bar what was already known, only realised you didn't know how the V2 unit works! 

i did know how the v2 operates as i said i wanted you to educate me and you said you didnt know how it works that you didnt build it i wanted to know what you know and you answered it
and now you say its obvious how dose that work ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2010, 11:55:39 pm »
is that normal ;D

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2010, 12:14:17 am »

quote    I did read your post "58"  and you were stating the obvious, which we all know.

if i was stating the obvious why did you advise him to change settings

quote   You haven't proved anything bar what was already known, only realised you didn't know how the V2 unit works! 

i did know how the v2 operates as i said i wanted you to educate me and you said you didnt know how it works that you didnt build it i wanted to know what you know and you answered it
and now you say its obvious how dose that work ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Stephen

Read the thread from the very beggining, like you should have done. Pump cycling, water agitating inside etc. etc.

A pump cycling for a few seconds, hearing the water inside it etc.

READ THE WHOLE THREAD!

I told him to adjust the settings to lower the pressure in the system, which was indeed the correct advice given the information available at that time.

You asked me how the V2 unit worked, why did you ask if you already knew? ??? According to YOU, the V2 will only cut off at 100psi & has NO adjustment! ::) Yeah, that's how much you know how it works! ::) I told you how it works from a user point of view, which just so happens to be what common sense would determine as relevant.
SO, ONE LAST TIME-

IF INDEED, THE ORIGINAL THREAD HAD BEEN WORDED DIFFERENT OR A MORE ACCURATE DESCRIPTION WAS REVEALED INNITIALLY, THEN YES, MY ANSWER, OR "HELP" WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT. THIS WAS NOT THE CASE THOUGH.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
YUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
UNDEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNDD?????????????

YOU ARE NOT CLEVER.

YOU JUMPED ON A CHANCE TO LOOK GOOD HALFWAY THROUGH, ONCE THERE WAS MORE INFORMATION.

THEN, YOU INSISTED THAT HIS V2 CONTROLLER DIDN'T HAVE ANY PRESSURE SETTINGS WHICH WAS NOT CORRECT.
LET IT GO DUDE, YOU DON'T NEED TO CARRY THE CHIP, YOU GOT CARRIED AWAY & GOT IT WRONG!

FFS ::) :'( :'( :'( :'(

stephen.b1

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2010, 12:30:03 am »
re read and undertand posts 42 54 56 and 58 you will then realise your last post was complete rubbish

stephen.b1

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2010, 12:31:06 am »
then read post 74 it says it all

stephen.b1

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2010, 12:32:45 am »
he dosnt have a v2 controler read first post its a brodex

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2010, 12:35:01 am »
he dosnt have a v2 controler read first post its a brodex
 

Quote
Well thats the adjustments i have been playing with ,i have settings a to f and have set it each time on a different one(switched off then on for that setting to be stored),then on each setting i have adjusted the flow rate to the least and then the highest(,the pump behaves exactly the same on any combination of settings.Does seem other people have the same behaviour and the bloke at Brodex said its normal, but is it? Its not brodex kit,its a shurflo pump and digi-varistream with brodex written on it.

Who do you think supplies Brodex?? ;D ;D

It was apparent early on that the unit was a re badged V2 varistream.

Read my post "reply 14" unit monitoring was suggested by me on the first page.

Sean OP

Hope it's now sorted for you. ;)

But I haven't got any spare breath for the purpose of educating pork!

No good knocking if there's no one in!

I'm out. ::)

dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2010, 01:09:38 pm »

I think quite a of us have had problems during the extremely cold conditions we have recently had.
The first problem is that the Varistream was never designed to work with micro bore hose. This was confirmed when Williamses invalidated the guarantee for the V if it was used with this small bore stuff.
The v2 measures the draw of the amps and responds, cold water being thicker will cause the V2 to shut off sooner, because the amp draw needs to be higher to pump it.
I have had to re-adjust mine a few times because as the day warmed up the water got a bit thinner, and I was getting too much pressure.
Another thing that will affect the V2 is the distance you are working from the hose reel, water runs a lot more freely through a 100 meters layed out flat, than it would through 10 meters with 90 left on the reel.
It's a total waste of time giving other people your V2 settings, as settings have to be tuned to your own system.
A surflow pump with the pressure switch bypassed as it should be, no matter if that pump was originally 60 or 100psi, will pressurise up to 130 psi with the V2 running at max. that is serious and connector damaging pressure.
I don't believe the auto compensating spiel either. it may work with 6mm I/D pole hose, but won't with 4mm I/D Algarde hose. I know this for a fact after having the pump stop when lifting the pole to do the third floor.

I have only had the pump cycle if I have had air in the system, or had a small leak somewhere, and working with too much pressure is a sure way to find leaks.

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #82 on: December 29, 2010, 07:22:31 pm »
so after 5 pages of info did he get the pump to work ;D ;D :P :P :P

♠Winp®oClean♠

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Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #83 on: December 29, 2010, 10:10:51 pm »
so after 5 pages of info did he get the pump to work ;D ;D :P :P :P

There was nowt wrong wi' it in the first place Franky!!! ;D ;D

stephen.b1

  • Posts: 259
Re: My pump doesn`t stay stopped
« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2010, 12:01:28 am »
There was nowt wrong wi' it in the first place Franky!!! ;D ;D
Quote

thats what i said in the first place
all hale brodex  ;D ;D