[APWS]

....for the last 4 years i have got by very nicely with two 15 lpm machines, never had any problems with any type of job i have done,
   this year i was thinking of selling one of them and buying a 21 lpm machine, just wondered if the extra 6 lpm really makes that much      
   difference except for say washing down?
   thanks.
    

[BDCS]

I spent years running 15 ltr and then upgraded to 21 last year, mainly to go diesel. Yes it is noticeable mainly when using the FSC as I usually use a 55 fan or turbo. You always have the option to turn the revs down and use a smaller nozzle if the hose is slow. 21 ltrs uses a 65 or two 35's in the fsc.

[Rob_Mac]

Why don't you pop over and have a look at one of my machines in action. I don't have 21LPM but I can connect two 15LPM machines together and show you 30LPM, 35LPM on one machine and 45LPM on one machine, two together @ 50LPM, two together @ 60LPM or two together @80LPM.

The difference on 6LPM is very noticeable, on cleaning, rinsing and getting the kit back in the van more quickly, so improving the hourly rate!!!

Rob

[chris scott]

Everybody tells me i need 21 lpm or even 30lpm.....most of the time i struggle to get 15lpm from a domestic tap.
 I would carefully consider any advice that you receive .You are possibly more experienced to answer your question than  from whom you are seeking advice.
To answer your question ..you will notice the difference with 21lpm in terms of cleaning power.
Have you considered a higher bar pump with the same flow? This would increase "cleaning power" without the need for more water. Try flow(lpm) multiplied by  pressure (bar) divided by 600 , the resulting number is pretty meaningless other than to compare "cleaning power" of different pumps.
A 250/15lpm would give "nearly" the same "cleaning power" as a 200/ 21 lpm pump without the same demand for water.

[Rob_Mac]

Chris

'You are possibly more experienced to answer your question than  from whom you are seeking advice.' - the reason for this part of the post would be??

Maybe he knows what his general tap flow rate is (in his area - which happens to be not that far from me) and it is your thinking that is in the wrong.

Rob

[Rob_Mac]

Second to that he has been working with two 15LPM machines, if together he has got by using 30LPM so that would state that he has sufficient flow rate to cover 21LPM.

Bigger picture

Rob

[chris scott]

Chris

'You are possibly more experienced to answer your question than  from whom you are seeking advice.' - the reason for this part of the post would be??

Maybe he knows what his general tap flow rate is (in his area - which happens to be not that far from me) and it is your thinking that is in the wrong.

Rob

He knows what sort of work he is generally undertaking ,the water flows in general for his area (as much as you can) Only he will know if he has struggled with cleaning that he has thought that he requires a more powerful machine or even heat,chemicals etc
To me he is the most qualified to decide on which machine his particular services require.....why what did you think i meant?

[Kenny83]

I am in 2  inds wether to put an offer in for that zeta on ebay, I could put a .45 jet in for normal cleaning usung 15lpm then when I need to rinse off i could swap the lance over to a .9 to clean off, would also be handy on 2 man jobs as I could leave the trailer at home... thoughts anyone?
Also if I was using a .45 jet would it do my unloader any damage?
 
Thanks

[chris scott]

If it is a  flow sensitive unloader it might not recognize the (smaller) nozzle is shifting enough water to come off bypass..  

[APWS]

Second to that he has been working with two 15LPM machines, if together he has got by using 30LPM so that would state that he has sufficient flow rate to cover 21LPM.

Bigger picture

Rob

very rarely suffer from low pressure in this area,
thanks for the reply's think i will upgrade soon. 

[BDCS]

I am in 2  inds wether to put an offer in for that zeta on ebay, I could put a .45 jet in for normal cleaning usung 15lpm then when I need to rinse off i could swap the lance over to a .9 to clean off, would also be handy on 2 man jobs as I could leave the trailer at home... thoughts anyone?
Also if I was using a .45 jet would it do my unloader any damage?
 
Thanks

If your unloader is set to 200 bar then fit your nozzle and with the trigger open back the revs off from flat out untill the guage drops to 190 bar or when the flow stops in the return to tank from the unloader. Measure the gap on the throttle stop and then find a bolt or something to repicate that throttle position.

[Kenny83]

I am in 2  inds wether to put an offer in for that zeta on ebay, I could put a .45 jet in for normal cleaning usung 15lpm then when I need to rinse off i could swap the lance over to a .9 to clean off, would also be handy on 2 man jobs as I could leave the trailer at home... thoughts anyone?
Also if I was using a .45 jet would it do my unloader any damage?
 
Thanks

If your unloader is set to 200 bar then fit your nozzle and with the trigger open back the revs off from flat out untill the guage drops to 190 bar or when the flow stops in the return to tank from the unloader. Measure the gap on the throttle stop and then find a bolt or something to repicate that throttle position.

I was thinking something along them lines, as a .45 nozzle will only let 15 lpm through at 200 bar so if the pressure gauge says 200 then it must be doing 15 litres, how do you find it works for you mate? any unloader problems?

[Simon@Pristine Pathways]

I have gone from 15lpm to 30lpm and the difference is amazing! Rob to answer your question from other post yes it is running good and no probs.
Chris the water is not always fast enough but never a big problem, I fill tank first and use till runs low then have a brew and a chat while its filling. doesn't bother me waiting to fill as there is always something to do. plus I aint going to get £300 for cleaning someones drive for 20 mins work!
Simon

[Kenny83]

Simon, is it mainly domestic you do? do you find that it does the job alot quiker mate?

[Simon@Pristine Pathways]

95% domestic, fsc is much faster and rinse down. If your around this area give me a shout and have a go!  Havent you sold a 21lpm recently?
Simon

[Matt Gibson]

I had a 15lpm pump on my machine. mainly domestics. i bought a 21lpm pump last year and changed it over. noticed a big difference. ive got a 400l tank, start to fill it while i set up and have only had bad pressure at three jobs. depending on what engine you run you might just be able to upgrade the pump and not the whole machine.

[chris scott]

I have gone from 15lpm to 30lpm and the difference is amazing! Rob to answer your question from other post yes it is running good and no probs.
Chris the water is not always fast enough but never a big problem, I fill tank first and use till runs low then have a brew and a chat while its filling. doesn't bother me waiting to fill as there is always something to do. plus I aint going to get £300 for cleaning someones drive for 20 mins work!
Simon

I dont think my customers in general would like to pay me to " have a brew and a chat ".
" the water is not always fast enough but never a big problem".... to me it is  a major concern and a basic requirement for the service i provide.
I prefer to work slower but not to be seen to be stood around "doing nothing" while waiting on tanks filling.
Maybe it's me thats doing it all wrong! As Rob points out to me thats why he is in life and thats why  i am "still" were i am . Maybe i should listen to people more!
Simon  I wish i could get £300 for a weeks work let alone 20mins.....

[Rob_Mac]

Chris - I wondered if you had gone back to 'your old ways' last night

I do think it is a shift of mentality from your perspective. Price the job and not the time you are there.

On every job I work on the thinking that the longer we are there the more mess, contractors other jobs and passers by we can cause problems to.

I go in, get the job done and get out as quickly as possible - that is what they pay for!

Good luck

Rob

[chris scott]

Chris - I wondered if you had gone back to 'your old ways' last night

I do think it is a shift of mentality from your perspective. Price the job and not the time you are there.

On every job I work on the thinking that the longer we are there the more mess, contractors other jobs and passers by we can cause problems to.

I go in, get the job done and get out as quickly as possible - that is what they pay for!

Good luck

Rob

Fine if you work for "Netto or Aldi" like your self Rob . My customers are domestic i would have thought that they don't want  me stood around doing nothing.
Hence me working consistently with my "semi pro machine" possibly  equates to the "work fast"  stop work, have a fAg, have a brew ,text boyfriend..... "wait to  refill barrel"   train of thought.
What exactly are my "old" ways " ..i did not know i had "new " ways.

[Rob_Mac]

How you get the work completed is down to you. It is in your head that they will be bothered.

There is a thinking in domestic window cleaning that if you charge a tenner for a property but are only there for ten minutes - you are expensive. Do four an hour and you are thinking my customers are adding all this up.

Let them add it up.

Sell it differently - I am a professional service, that has spent money and time building my business to where it is today. I am the best cleaner in my area and I will offer you the best service and a far superior end product. I will clean all mess up, clean the windows and any affected glass/other areas and apart from the clean patio you wouldn't know I have been.

There is the obvious that you have to be able to do all of the above though.

Maybe you aren't confident in the service you are offering?

Rob

[BDCS]

I look at it as I have invested in the gear and its the customers tap that is slowing me, they hear the machine stop and bring out the tea - thats when I have a chat ( and sow seeds for selling them another service ) . When I first started I could never see why you would ever need more than 15 ltr/min as I hated slow taps - now I'm building a trailer to carry 650 ltrs to the job in addition to the 400 ltrs in the jetter - I don't get overtime anymore !

[Matt Gibson]

I agree with both of you. to a degree "some" customers still have the mentality that you should be there all day/week/year for the money you charge for the job. some, but not all. Perfect example today, mid terrace roof clean. we were done cleaning by 11:30am. Stopped, had a coffee and a fAg as i didnt want to be finished so quick and have the customer moaning about the price. decided i wasnt fussed, washed everything down and cleaned everythng up, cleaned windows and wiped down the door. 1pm knocked the door and she didnt even bat an eyelid when she paid. she didnt care about how long it took she just cared that it was a good job and that i had kept everything tidy.
 
anyway...

APWS,

Get a 21 lpm youll love it!!  

[chris scott]

I look at it as I have invested in the gear and its the customers tap that is slowing me, they hear the machine stop and bring out the tea - thats when I have a chat ( and sow seeds for selling them another service ) . When I first started I could never see why you would ever need more than 15 ltr/min as I hated slow taps - now I'm building a trailer to carry 650 ltrs to the job in addition to the 400 ltrs in the jetter - I don't get overtime anymore !

Carl that is different. You are now taking water with you to work....because the tap cannot keep up with the machine. I see that as problem solving . My life style could not support that even if i wanted to /could be bothered to. I also don't advocate the use of large reservoirs as  this evidently leads to hoses etc  lying across public walk ways etc.
But each to there own as i said to the gentleman who posed the original question.....he is the most experienced to answer it given his set of circumstances.

[BDCS]

How does that evidently lead to hoses over the footpath ? You just reverse the trailer onto the drive,do one half, move the trailer and do the other half. Should this not be possible I get the petrol 15 ltr machine out of the container. Gear before beer

[Simon@Pristine Pathways]

Chris come and spend a day with me youd love it.
1. Park van at end of drive, usually in everybodys way and pipes over walkways
2. Tell customer to get kettle on
3. Connect water and wait for tank to fill, this takes forever.
4. Customer has made brew and we have a chat and tell them how bad there water flow is
5. Finish brew as water is full
6. Start cleaning at 30lpm weve got about 30mins
7. Weve prob done half job, so stop and let water catch up tidy up bag up any mess
8. Customer pops out cus its gone quiet offers another brew
9. Refer to point 4.
10. Refer to point 5.
11. Finish cleaning area
12. Rinse down, bag up any crap, clean grids gullys, doors, windows, gate , fences.
13. Pack up van
14. Decline  another brew
15. Take payment
16. Drive to next job or go home (optional)

Live the dream.

[Kenny83]

Chris come and spend a day with me youd love it.
1. Park van at end of drive, usually in everybodys way and pipes over walkways
2. Tell customer to get kettle on
3. Connect water and wait for tank to fill, this takes forever.
4. Customer has made brew and we have a chat and tell them how bad there water flow is
5. Finish brew as water is full
6. Start cleaning at 30lpm weve got about 30mins
7. Weve prob done half job, so stop and let water catch up tidy up bag up any mess
8. Customer pops out cus its gone quiet offers another brew
9. Refer to point 4.
10. Refer to point 5.
11. Finish cleaning area
12. Rinse down, bag up any crap, clean grids gullys, doors, windows, gate , fences.
13. Pack up van
14. Decline  another brew
15. Take payment
16. Drive to next job or go home (optional)

Live the dream.

  haha, thats the work I love!

[BDCS]

Good job Chris is'nt a painter else he'd be saying he would never use a roller because the customer likes to see him working hard using his trusty 1/2" brush ! Probably drinks Earl grey instead of proper tea 

[chris scott]

Good job Chris is'nt a painter else he'd be saying he would never use a roller because the customer likes to see him working hard using his trusty 1/2" brush ! Probably drinks Earl grey instead of proper tea  

Green tea and  a cafetiere for my coffee.

[chris scott]

Chris come and spend a day with me youd love it.
1. Park van at end of drive, usually in everybodys way and pipes over walkways
2. Tell customer to get kettle on
3. Connect water and wait for tank to fill, this takes forever.
4. Customer has made brew and we have a chat and tell them how bad there water flow is
5. Finish brew as water is full
6. Start cleaning at 30lpm weve got about 30mins
7. Weve prob done half job, so stop and let water catch up tidy up bag up any mess
8. Customer pops out cus its gone quiet offers another brew
9. Refer to point 4.
10. Refer to point 5.
11. Finish cleaning area
12. Rinse down, bag up any crap, clean grids gullys, doors, windows, gate , fences.
13. Pack up van
14. Decline  another brew
15. Take payment
16. Drive to next job or go home (optional)

Live the dream.

  Simon ..when you next buy some seal from me i will spend the day with you. You can show me how it's done.

[Simon@Pristine Pathways]

Wont need any for a while got 25 tins sitting in garage! Got a good deal so bought a few!

Went to see a pattern imprinted drive today, needs cleaning and resealing. Not sure about it, theve sealed it themselves for a few years and has a massive build up of sealer on it. Needs stripping I think.
Iam too busy to get involved and not that confident on be able to sort it.
Money didnt seem to be a problem to them even when I said I was more 1k ish. Approx 80m2
If your not busy and want to have a look chris let me know.

[chris scott]

Wont need any for a while got 25 tins sitting in garage! Got a good deal so bought a few!

Went to see a pattern imprinted drive today, needs cleaning and resealing. Not sure about it, theve sealed it themselves for a few years and has a massive build up of sealer on it. Needs stripping I think.
Iam too busy to get involved and not that confident on be able to sort it.
Money didnt seem to be a problem to them even when I said I was more 1k ish. Approx 80m2
If your not busy and want to have a look chris let me know.

No problem i'll put you some wages on.

[Simon@Pristine Pathways]

Chris , ring me and I will give you the details
Simon

[APWS]

I agree with both of you. to a degree "some" customers still have the mentality that you should be there all day/week/year for the money you charge for the job. some, but not all. Perfect example today, mid terrace roof clean. we were done cleaning by 11:30am. Stopped, had a coffee and a fAg as i didnt want to be finished so quick and have the customer moaning about the price. decided i wasnt fussed, washed everything down and cleaned everythng up, cleaned windows and wiped down the door. 1pm knocked the door and she didnt even bat an eyelid when she paid. she didnt care about how long it took she just cared that it was a good job and that i had kept everything tidy.
 
anyway...

APWS,

Get a 21 lpm youll love it!!  

well said mate.