[Mike Halliday]

I've noticed over the years that some of the gear I buy for carpet cleaning is very exspnsive, little pieces of metal or plastic cost £10-12 ( jets) farmers buy jets for their crop sprayers, they buy them 50 at a time. do you think they pay over a tenner for them? ....... Or 500gms of spotting chemical cost £17.

I bought a gas regulator last week, when you look at it you can see it's a complicated well made piece of kit it cost £23,  I'm sure is this had been for a truckmount it would have cost £120

Some hand tools cost £400 if you look what you can buy for £400 in other industries you would be amazed.

Is it because carpet cleaning is a small industry so we don't have mass production or is it we are seen as a soft touch?

[gwrightson]

Got to agree Mike,

I been looking for a new upholstery tool ,the prices for what is basically a simple thing amaze me.

I am now resorting to try and source a new head for my drimaster1 , even that is proving difficult just to get a reply from Hydramaster, tried calling "will get somebody to call you " replying via their leave a message option , and still nothing  .

I sometimes wonder if they really want the business.

Geoff

[CleanerCarpets]

yes i agree - look at Sodium Percarbonate - cheap as chips for everyone to buy - the manufacturers box it up, call it a booster and charge us 5 times the price!

Its apparently because of the research that goes into the product first - like drugs i suppose, normally cheap as chips to make but cost thousands to develop initially which is what you pay for.

Thats understandable, but not in a lot of circumstances when the product has already been developed and its just being rebadged for us and sold at a premium.

[Radek Jablonski]

Robbing ...... 


Hmmm you just said what I always thought.
Most of items are sold in thousands worldwide so I dont think so its about small quantity.
I am fine myself to spend more for proper equippment that will work for years for me. But all those small items, essential tools, accesories are too expensive.

[jasonl]

We need an "adaptables" thread , things we use but are cheaper and easier to source by laterally thinking.

[derek west]

its supply and demand.

how many hand tools are sold each year?
how many fridge freezers sold each year?

not a clue to the answer but lets say 100 HT's and 100,000 FF's.

And while we're here, are customers being taken advantage of?

Carpet cleaners £50 to £100 per hour (if youre not trying to be stupidly cheap)
Painter and decorator £100 a day.

My personal view, Its all relative.

[JandS]

I speak to quite a few tradesmen as my father and brother are both builders.
The general consensus, in this area , seems to be around £140 per day.
I dare not tell them what I sometimes earn per day.

[Mike Halliday]

You can't compare items with a service unless the cost of the service alters to the individual buyer

If a decorator charges me £100 an hour  but a doctor £130 an hour then it's the same as a company selling jets to farmers for 10 for £30  and them selling a carpet cleaner the same jets for 5 for £30

Which is the point I'm making

[Ben Marriott]

I've noticed over the years that some of the gear I buy for carpet cleaning is very exspnsive, little pieces of metal or plastic cost £10-12 ( jets) farmers buy jets for their crop sprayers, they buy them 50 at a time. do you think they pay over a tenner for them? ....... Or 500gms of spotting chemical cost £17.

I bought a gas regulator last week, when you look at it you can see it's a complicated well made piece of kit it cost £23,  I'm sure is this had been for a truckmount it would have cost £120

Some hand tools cost £400 if you look what you can buy for £400 in other industries you would be amazed.

Is it because carpet cleaning is a small industry so we don't have mass production or is it we are seen as a soft touch?

Are the nozzles like this? These are the ones we send out to farmers with Knight's sprayers or basically any sprayer ATV mounted or otherwise.

[Mike Halliday]

They are the basic design, although most have SS  or ceramic  insets  so they are more durable. The ones we use are either brass or stainless steel

I have those type in my low pressure  sprayers

[Ben Marriott]

The plastic type are 75p the brass type are about £4.20 plus vat you are quite right - carpet kit seems to be the most expensive in terms of parts etc

[Carpet Dawg]

look at the price of dyegone! I recently paid £37 (and that's before VAT and p&p) for a small valve trigger for a prochem hand tool. Just a lump of brass with a spring.

[derek west]

fast movers have lower profit margins, slow movers have higher profit margins.  some things sell faster in other industries than in ours and vice versa.

i can promise you that some of the stuff farming suppliers stock will have extortionate mark ups because they dont sell many.
its all relative
You cant have something taking up space sat on a shelf for 6 months of the year and still sell it with a 25% mark up.  But at the same time, to be a good supplier you have to stock everything for convenience to your customers.

so you either shop around and waste your own time looking for cheap products elsewhere (which asks the question, what is your time worth? or you just pay the extra price a slow mover insists on.  (me personally!! sometimes i shop around  and sometimes i  take the easy option and just stick it on my list)

[JandS]

Slow movers might become fast movers if priced accordingly....I would like a crb machine...but the price for 2 spinning brushes and a vac is extortionate when you compare the engineering that goes into a rotary at nearly half the price.

[Carpet Dawg]

you don't even get a vac with most crb's John.

[Mike Halliday]

Another thing I find strange is how certain items last 20 years but others only a year, look at rotories I bet most of us have seen them 20 yrs old and still going  strong, why do their  motors last so long but we are lucky to get a year from a vac motor

[Radek Jablonski]

Its called ageing.
Of course they could make motors lasting years with proper components.
There are documentaries talking about this. It started with bulb light.

They dont want to sell you items lasting your life time. They want your money.

Mercedes once did a car that can do 1 mln kilometers and engine still works to hit another 1mln that was their mistake they will not do anymore.

[john martin]

Shop around  , look for special offers . there are lower prices out there , support guys like the carpetcleanersstore who would be about 30-40% cheaper than most suppliers ,  if anything prices for parts etc are probably down , dont see anyting too expensive on the likes of restormate  .  Imagine before the internet , didnt people give like 300 for a fitted motor to the likes of extracta .

When i look through a machine like the enforcer , all the parts , mounting plates , immersion parts , electronics to be fitted , i doubt i could be bothered making it myself for what they charge , doubt they make akilling on these machines .
why dont vac motors last , probably because of the imperfect environments and abuse they get  . They are made semi disposable using cheap mass produced ultra cheap windings etc
Many of us are capable of earning the cost of an expensive hand tool in a day or a crb in a week or two so probably shouldnt complain .
SomeChemicals are probably a rip off  for what they are , but many CC seem easily douped  .....   microsplitter 

[John Kelly]

I'm actually surprised how long most good vacuum motors do last. They are usually pulling against a blockage when the tool is on the floor or fabric and they are sucking through moisture laden air.
If things lasted for ever, where would everyone work?

[Kev Martin]

I think it matters what industry you are in. If you think Carpet stuff is expensive try Floor Restoration.  One set of Metal Bond Sintered Diamonds that in our industry are classed as consumables cost over £500 Inc VAT.  Derek makes the point really,  that if you earn good money you need to spend it on the best IMHO.  If the best costs more then so be it!  Floor cleaners cost £1 in a Pound Shop!   Would I use them?  Never!

I don't know much about TM & Porty Vac Motors but the ones we use for vaccing up stone slurry last for years so if they don't last long in your industry and they are Ametek like ours then perhaps / maybe  there is a ventilation issue!!!

[John Kelly]

Different type of motors Kev, but think the biggest issue is they are pulling through hot moist air for very long periods.

[Craigp]

I could say the problem is you / us, I mean you / we are obviously not charging enough, as these costs should be built into our pricing structure not the other way around.

You shouldn't come to buy a new Wand and find 'oh dam I can't afford it' I've not allowed for it in my pricing.

If we are  struggling to pay for these things, then why? There is only that one conclusion.

That said I agree carpet cleaning stuff is pricey 

[Radek Jablonski]

most of things are designed for carpet cleaners and are priced whatever it is

but look at many other items that are sold on the price which is 2-3 times more then the same item somewhere else, for examples: water drop protection sheets, hose ramps, jets, brushes etc, much cheaper to buy the same in other shops.

think there is also huge profit on the chemicals, I can have Fabric Seal for 50 euros incl vat. The actual price is actually 100, and still on the profit? 

But thats good if the things are cheap then we will be flooded by carpet cleaners having lots of competition like windows cleaners.  I can see a lot new window cleaners in my town, their vans are parked on the driveway for the most of time, and dont see any new good carpet cleaners and their vans are still moving.

[Mike Halliday]

The idea that we should build into our pricing structure the amount we are over charged for consumables is  immoral, what you are saying is " we are over charged so we should over charge the client" (and if I Am going to over charge a clients at least I want the extra money to stay in my pocket,  not needlessly give it to someone else)

And we are not talking about spending money on buying the best  but how prices differ for relatively the same item.

I've got to say this topic was prompted by Johns inconsiderate behaviour  and going on holiday, forcing me to buy some chemicals from a local store, I felt like telling them the reason they keep downsizing and letting staff go is because they are rip off gits who see everyone who walks in the door as a mug .

[*Hector*]

Perhaps as John was so inconsiderate .... you should send him an invoice for the difference in cost..

 

[Craigp]

Charging enough to sustain your business 'is immoral' never thought of it that way.

I would question are they (suppliers) over charging ? you know the costs they have to pay for it, much of it imported, in that mark up they have to pay staff, premises ect.

[Dave_Lee]

A top range TM will set you back around £30,000 now, and that's just for the machine and waste tank. You could get a nice car for that. All this expensive gear, they know you will pay it, because it makes you, money!
Dave.

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Three thoughts.

Firstly for capital items of expenditure, you have depreciation charged to your P&L account to allow you to budget for replacements.

Secondly I can't get my head round the fact that bottled water is more expensive than milk.

Thirdly we should be buiding in the costs of comsumables into our pricing to accurately reflect our break even figures. What gets my goat is places that say "because you are paying by credit card we are going to charge you x% (or £x.xx for a debit card) for paying us". The whole point about pricing is to build in your costs-not sneak an extra bit on the bill once you are committed to buying.

That said whilst my initial reaction to cc costs is "phew" I completely agree with Derek's two posts.

Rog

[Kev Martin]

A top range TM will set you back around £30,000 now, and that's just for the machine and waste tank. You could get a nice car for that. All this expensive gear, they know you will pay it, because it makes you, money!
Dave.
[/quote

Yep and a top of the range floor grinder will set you back £50K  +  and a top of the range pressure washer can set you back £70K plus.   The point is that if the gear costs you charge for it

[Mike Halliday]

We seem to missing the point, no one has a problem with the cost of expensive items, if something cost £50k then that ok as long as the the price comes from the sum of its parts, development. And profit etc

But when a price is figured on those cost and then an extra £4k is added purely because we are selling to carpet cleaners (who some don't mind being over charged because  they will just pass on the extra cost to the customer) then this is not right.

[Radek Jablonski]

Mike theres nearly everything is overpriced. Tm should not cost 30+vat no matter how powerfull it is. As this is just a piece of steel and design and development of it does not cost as much as new bmw or your van.

[Kev Martin]

We seem to missing the point, no one has a problem with the cost of expensive items, if something cost £50k then that ok as long as the the price comes from the sum of its parts, development. And profit etc

But when a price is figured on those cost and then an extra £4k is added purely because we are selling to carpet cleaners (who some don't mind being over charged because  they will just pass on the extra cost to the customer) then this is not right.

Mike

I get where you are coming from but it is not a dedicated conspiracy against Carpet Cleaners.  I own for example a gold watch from a fairly well known manufacturer.  All jewellers refuse to change the battery because they are all scared they will round off one of the heads of the 12 screws  because they are gold.  So over here the watch gets sent to London HQ and I  got a bill through the jeweller's  which was over £300!!!!  I ask why?   They come up with, well we changed the battery, then cleaned it and serviced it.   WTF says me.  I asked for a new battery end of!!!   Long argument and a phone call to London and they capitulate a little and then say £180 then.  This went on and on all the time me asking the same question " I want a breakdown on removing 12 screws and inserting a 50p battery and screwing the screws back in.  In the end they did it for free!  The point is they think this idiot owns a watch valued at that price, if we send a ridiculous bill he will just pay a couple of % of the retail value without blinking.  Incidentally a German Jeweller will change the battery for about €20.

Ultimately everyone does it or tries it on in a niche market.  A guy on here lost two small bolts for his concrete kit.  Klindex sent me 12 and charged €2.91 each for them.  I sent them back and went to a specialist ironmonger and bought 30 @ 59p each and I still thought they were still a rip off.

Audi wanted nearly £500 + vat for a 20000 mile service  on my car.  My guy did it round the corner with better oil and all original Audi parts for £180 including VAT.

It happens all the time and sometimes we can do something  about it, sometimes  we can't.  Derek is right, sometimes, it is easier to pay it and charge it on rather than wasting valuable time that you could either be either  earning more or simply enjoying some leisure  time.

[John Kelly]

Its even worse if you own a boat or more so if you own an aeroplane. In fact there is another company who sells exactly the same water tanks as us
but has a separate Boat site where the same tanks are over a £100 more expensive. Now that is being ripped off.

[Kinver_Clean]

Many years ago I worked for a company making clothing for a national high street store.
We were making them for £1.80 per dozen. We charged them, after overheads £5.
They were selling them for £4.50 each.

A carpet cleaninh supplier was charging £4.50 for a switch.
Maplins sell them for 89p.
Another sells 1 1/2" dump waste valves for £28.
Aquatic suppliers sell them for £8.25 inc vat

[Robin Ray]

Having worked for a short time in designing and manufacturing equipment. There are many hidden costs involved in research and development of complex equipment,and even simple plastic molded pieces have astronomical initial development and tooling costs. Without purchasing of a mass market the costs have to be spread over a smaller amount of buyers. The carpet cleaning industry is a very small market in the scheme of things.

[Jamie Pearson]

A guy on here lost two small bolts for his concrete kit.  Klindex sent me 12 and charged €2.91 each for them.  I sent them back and went to a specialist ironmonger and bought 30 @ 59p each and I still thought they were still a rip off.

What idiot looses an essential part like that!

[*Hector*]

A Scottish person perhaps?? 


 

[Kev Martin]

Or maybe Scottish Persons who work for a Scottish Person