Fly dirt on pvcu frames.

« **on:** July 12, 2007, 07:08:04 pm »

Sorry to gatecrash your site but I am desperate. Can anyone tell me how to get fly dirt off my pvcu frames. We live in the country and though we manage to keep the flies out of the house the mess on the white windo w frames is a nightmare. I have tried all the products people have recommended including CIF and the solvents used by window companies to no avail. It needs cleaning off almost daily and believe me it is VERY bad. If I could find a window cleaner who could clean it off for me I would love to hear from him as even though the surface dirt comes off they leave behind specs like rust stains. The only other option is to move but I'm not sure anyone would buy it!

« **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:11:47 pm »

cillit bang

« **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:17:43 pm »

where do you live?

« **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:18:28 pm »

Cillit bang doesn't touch it either. Believe me if its on the shelf in the DIY shop I've tried it. It seems to get baked on as the front of the house is very sunny.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:20:55 pm »

Quote from: 007 or what on July 12, 2007, 07:17:43 pm

where do you live?

Warminster

« **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:23:47 pm »

I use a 50/50 mixture of 'upvc frame cleaner' and a 'bathroom or kitchen cream cleaner'. You need to shake the bottle of mixture each time before you use it because it keeps seperating out. Also, once the 'frame cleaner' has evapourated from the cloth it tends to loose its efficiency and you need to apply some more mixture to the cloth.

It seems to get nearly everything off the frames, including most 'rust marks'.

Good luck.

Mike

« **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:26:39 pm »

Quote from: Mike 108 on July 12, 2007, 07:23:47 pm

I use a 50/50 mixture of 'upvc frame cleaner' and a 'bathroom or kitchen cream cleaner'. You need to shake the bottle of mixture each time before you use it because it keeps seperating out. Also, once the 'frame cleaner' has evapourated from the cloth it tends to loose its efficiency and you need to apply some more mixture to the cloth.

It seems to get nearly everything off the frames, including most 'rust marks'.

Good luck.

Mike

Thanks Mike, haven't tried that yet. Perhaps I should replace all the windows with dark wood!

« **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:27:53 pm »

GET YOURSELF A MICROFIBRE, DAMP IT, IT WILL COME ON IN 6-10 HARD RUBS, NOTHING BEATS IT

« **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:32:14 pm »

Hey Mike, what brand frame cleaner, they vary a lot in their efficacy, (thats a good word isn't it)
Can someone tell me how I should reply to your messages, don't know if I'm doing this right

« **Reply #9 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:40:48 pm »

Hey Luke the micro fibre cloth is pretty good on the newer windows, been out to try it, left some stains but a bit of Astonish with the cloth helps. Front windows still not totally successful but they are old and probably the surface is more prorous due to previous cleanings. Think I might try the microfibre cloth with the frame mix recommended by Mike
Cheers

« **Reply #10 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:42:49 pm »

Webseal frame cleaner, its a chemical one, will shift almost anything. You will have to do a search for it online. Have you tried your local PVC suppliers ie fascia boards, trims windows, or even a local double glazing company, this is what they use most of the time. Or the other chemical cleaner that is good is made by Wurth, again will shift almost anything!

« **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:43:25 pm »

I did read on here that someone uses WHITE "T" Cut on upvc frames.

I use industrial upvc creams and solvent cleaner. The solvent cleaner I use even brought enamel paint off.

Have a look on ebay under "upvc cream cleaner" and go for the trade stuff.

Hope this helps
Wayne

« **Reply #12 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:50:22 pm »

Marilyn.

I can't tell you the brand at the moment because I've thrown away the last bottle that I had - but I bought it over the counter at a local frame manufacturer. They supply window fitters with it. I find it better than the frame cleaners that are sold at most retail shops.

Mike

« **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:00:08 pm »

Wow! Window fitters come with the cleaner! Perhaps they can clean the frames for me! Seriously I have got some solvent from New Windows locally but that wasn't too successful on it's own.

« **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:06:15 pm »

why not try jiff or ciff as it is known now the white bottle add a bit to a damp cloth rub gently they should come off with that buff uf after it drys hope this helps it gets rid of a lot of tought marks for me

« **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:13:10 pm »

Quote from: Marilyn Dennett on July 12, 2007, 07:40:48 pm

Hey Luke the micro fibre cloth is pretty good on the newer windows, been out to try it, left some stains but a bit of Astonish with the cloth helps. Front windows still not totally successful but they are old and probably the surface is more prorous due to previous cleanings. Think I might try the microfibre cloth with the frame mix recommended by Mike
Cheers

Hi
Please can you tell me who sells Astonish on its own - good cleaner. Got some included with a pack of other cleaners from QVC once
Thanks
Spruce

« **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:20:45 pm »

QD They sell everything

« **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:28:35 pm »

Are you sure its fly dirt? Chemical/Solvent cleaner will shift it??

« **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:29:07 pm »

I got my Astonish from the local car boot at Frome. I think I have seen it in some DIY stores since but can't remember where, may have been Homebase.

« **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:35:21 pm »

Yes definitely fly, I counted 200 on the outside wall the other week. I used to think the little black marks were caused by spiders till I moved here. Trust me you have not seen anything like the mess they leave. Before we stopped them coming in the house the marks were on everything, lampshades, skirtings, ceilings. We have 5 conical fly traps in the garden full up. Living in the country is not all leisurely dog walks in country lanes! All the windows are barricaded with mesh and the rear door with a chain door. By the way the electronic bats work well. It is very satisfying watching them fry.

« **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:39:53 pm »

I recommend using Avon Skin So Soft on the frames, the SAS use it as an insect repellant, it is the only thing they find works 100%, if you rub it in regularly, the flies wont like going there. But please dont get it on your glass, dont forget the window cleaner!

« **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:52:37 pm »

Marilyn,

Have you ever had creeping ivey growing near or around the frames at any time??

If you have, then the little buggers have suckers that create what looks like fly poo, you can use all sorts on this and they tend to come back after a few day's.

If this is the case the only way to get rid of anything on upvc is by useing this method and that is by useing cellulose thinners, apply this to a cloth wipe over the cill, but instantly wipe over the cill again with a clean dry cloth, do not leave these thinners on until dry or your cills will melt.

This will get rid of anything but use it with caution.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:56:54 pm »

Thanks for all your advice guys, have to sign off now. Will be out tomorrow trying your tips. Will let you know how I get on. May come in handy if you come across a customer with a problem like mine.

« **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2007, 09:02:51 pm »

Quote from: jeff1 on July 12, 2007, 08:52:37 pm

Marilyn,

Have you ever had creeping ivey growing near or around the frames at any time??

If you have, then the little buggers have suckers that create what looks like fly poo, you can use all sorts on this and they tend to come back after a few day's.

If this is the case the only way to get rid of anything on upvc is by useing this method and that is by useing cellulose thinners, apply this to a cloth wipe over the cill, but instantly wipe over the cill again with a clean dry cloth, do not leave these thinners on until dry or your cills will melt.

This will get rid of anything but use it with caution.
[/quote

No ivy.

« **Reply #24 on:** July 12, 2007, 09:07:12 pm »

Quote from: Marilyn on July 12, 2007, 09:02:51 pm

Quote from: jeff1 on July 12, 2007, 08:52:37 pm
Marilyn,

Have you ever had creeping ivey growing near or around the frames at any time??

If you have, then the little buggers have suckers that create what looks like fly poo, you can use all sorts on this and they tend to come back after a few day's.

If this is the case the only way to get rid of anything on upvc is by useing this method and that is by useing cellulose thinners, apply this to a cloth wipe over the cill, but instantly wipe over the cill again with a clean dry cloth, do not leave these thinners on until dry or your cills will melt.

This will get rid of anything but use it with caution.
[/quote

No ivy.

Ok
You can still use the descibed method, but don't rub it in just wipe it on and then straight off, you can then apply some polish (house hold will do) just to bring back its shine.
This method will leave your upvc as new as the day it was installed.

« **Reply #25 on:** July 12, 2007, 10:43:40 pm »

I'm just down the road from Warminster in fact I used to live there. Do you need a window cleaner down your road? I was having a look around Upton Scudamore only last week. There is a upvc window manufacturer and a window cleaner supplier (scrim city) on the industrial estate just up the road from Longbridge Devrill ,turn left at the garage and head towards Sutton Veny.

ps. I don't suppose it is rust? - are you near a railway line or something?

« **Reply #26 on:** July 13, 2007, 08:20:35 am »

Quote from: Marilyn on July 12, 2007, 08:56:54 pm

Thanks for all your advice guys, have to sign off now. Will be out tomorrow trying your tips. Will let you know how I get on. May come in handy if you come across a customer with a problem like mine.

Not sure about which chemicals as there are lots of them about.
I would suggest using something slightly abrasive though to do the cleaning action. One of those washing up pads (foam one side and green abrasive stuff on the other). Do take care to get them with light enough abrasion not to cause scratching though.

« **Reply #27 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:15:35 am »

TFR will get anything off period.
leave for ten mins then wipe off
heavy duty TFR ok if its fly crap it will come off with TFR
NEXT if it wont come off the next step is to get some 0000 wire wool
and take the top surface off with some cream cleaner then keep cleaning
without the wire wool as to re polish the plastic this way it has been stripped /
polished and redressed so a new surface can be seen but you must get all the
scratch marks off first
If the 0000 is not tough enough start with 00 or 000 grade it is a long job and
a learning curve but for sure IT WILL BE LIKE NEW Edd

« **Reply #28 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:53:00 pm »

Quote from: Davew on July 12, 2007, 10:43:40 pm

I'm just down the road from Warminster in fact I used to live there. Do you need a window cleaner down your road? I was having a look around Upton Scudamore only last week. There is a upvc window manufacturer and a window cleaner supplier (scrim city) on the industrial estate just up the road from Longbridge Devrill ,turn left at the garage and head towards Sutton Veny.
ps. I don't suppose it is rust? - are you near a railway line or something?

We are in Longbridge Deverill. Yes Window place is Thermaglaze, just along in Sutton Veny, they popped window out to get our settee in. Definitely is flies. If someone wanted to clean windows AND frames every time I would be delighted but they would have to get the fly poo off guaranteed! If you are close you can have a look if you like. As it is a bungalow it is fairly easy to clean the windows, it is the fly poo that is the problem. It is enough to make you weep.

« **Reply #29 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:55:22 pm »

Quote from: v8edd on July 13, 2007, 11:15:35 am

TFR will get anything off period.
leave for ten mins then wipe off
heavy duty TFR ok if its fly crap it will come off with TFR
NEXT if it wont come off the next step is to get some 0000 wire wool
and take the top surface off with some cream cleaner then keep cleaning
without the wire wool as to re polish the plastic this way it has been stripped /
polished and redressed so a new surface can be seen but you must get all the
scratch marks off first
If the 0000 is not tough enough start with 00 or 000 grade it is a long job and
a learning curve but for sure IT WILL BE LIKE NEW Edd

What is TFR and where can I get it

« **Reply #30 on:** July 13, 2007, 05:01:12 pm »

Quote from: Marilyn on July 13, 2007, 04:55:22 pm

Quote from: v8edd on July 13, 2007, 11:15:35 am
TFR will get anything off period.
leave for ten mins then wipe off
heavy duty TFR ok if its fly crap it will come off with TFR
NEXT if it wont come off the next step is to get some 0000 wire wool
and take the top surface off with some cream cleaner then keep cleaning
without the wire wool as to re polish the plastic this way it has been stripped /
polished and redressed so a new surface can be seen but you must get all the
scratch marks off first
If the 0000 is not tough enough start with 00 or 000 grade it is a long job and
a learning curve but for sure IT WILL BE LIKE NEW Edd

What is TFR and where can I get it

« **Reply #31 on:** July 13, 2007, 05:04:04 pm »

TFR is traffic film remover and I've got twenty five litres of the stuff in my garage. Never had to clean fly poo with it though I'm in Trowbridge. Do your neighbours get the same trouble?

« **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2007, 07:08:04 pm »

Right then i didnt want to give my secret away but here goes.

I have tried evry upvc cleaner on the market from b&q to upvc cleaner from window installers and they have had different effects.But i then tried something else i saw when i went out with the wife.......on upvc black scuff marks,fly mess,stains this suff removes it so well i went over it again to make sure.

I done a facia and cladding clean with it today and it looked brande new all those unsighlt black water marks gone super finish

You can get this from Poundland...Poundstretcher...........Woolworths....Robert Dyas they all stock this and here it is..........amazing go try some

http://www.jmldirect.com/Doktor-Power-PD0513/

P.s come back here when you have tried it and lets here your results

« **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2007, 08:13:27 pm »

Easyclean.

"Doktor Power is an environmentally friendly hard cleaning stone that comes complete with a specially designed applicator which stores away easily in the lid. Non-toxic and bio-degradable, Doktor Power is incredible value and incredibly effective!"

When it says it is a STONE, what does it mean?? Is it a typing error?

Mike

« **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2007, 08:57:45 pm »

Doktor Power sounds intriguing, might give it a go but am also confused by description. Will be off to Woolies tomorrow to have a look. Have today been out to do some test patches using polymer sealant to see if it stops the fly poo soaking in to make it easier to wash off. It is something called Rain Runner which you use on glass to keep it cleaner. Worked well on the shower screen. In answer to Dave the neighbours do but not as bad. I have done some research on flies and it seems our house is painted thier favourite colour. I have suggested painting it battleship grey or black.

« **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2007, 09:32:35 pm »

Err what colour is it.......... brown?

« **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2007, 09:42:23 pm »

It would be yellow. Buttercup yellow, Anglian trialed some frames down there.

« **Reply #37 on:** July 13, 2007, 09:56:43 pm »

I see where you're coming from Dave, but no, it's sort of yellowy cream but it is the first thing the flies see when they fly out of the farmyard opposite! I think what they are eating over there is what causes them to get the upset tummies that result in the brown stuff. The house stands out like a glowing beacon as it is raised up high above the road. Anglian trialed yellow windows?

? Unfortunately the fly experts are keen to tell you what colours they like but not what they don't. I can say its not green (they like the patio set cover) , nor blue (the car is covered in black spots too), the only colour I've noticed they don't seem to land on is red. Not sure the planning office will allow a red bungalow in an area of outstanding natural beauty. I have thought I might try painting squares different colours and see which they hate most.

« **Reply #38 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:00:41 pm »

i do a job that gets covered in fly muck in the summer, as somebody said earlier ciff is pretty good. Degreaser works well too.

« **Reply #39 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:09:07 pm »

never mind fly crap , has anybody heard of renovic for making frames white again

« **Reply #40 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:12:11 pm »

As a fly poo expert I would say that the Astonish slightly outperforms the Cif. And I am impressed by the microfibre window clothes recommended earlier, which incidentally I bought in Lidl. Their tinned peaches are great too, get the wife to get you some. I think we are starting to make progress and I am definitely keen to try the Doktor Power. Watch this space for further updates.

« **Reply #41 on:** July 14, 2007, 12:07:29 am »

not trying the tfr then oh well carn`t help everyone

I`ve got a new one

EVANS warehouse cleaner low foam now this will get anything off

« **Reply #42 on:** July 14, 2007, 09:25:08 am »

Doktor Power also in Wilkinsons. I might purchase a pot today.

« **Reply #43 on:** July 14, 2007, 07:33:43 pm »

Have been out in force today and the Doktor Power is very good stuff and allegedly ecofriendly but still doesn't shift the worst brown stains with the sponge supplied. I have found most of the cream cleaners all work pretty much the same if you use them with a green abrasive washing up pad. Even my Ecover cream works with the abrasive pad. I am really trying to find something which will shift it more easily without taking the skin off my fingers and the surface off the pvcu. It took four hours to clean them all today and get all the stains off. Incidentally the salesman at the window supplier recommended Vanish, yes the stuff you spray on your washing. In fact it works really well but there again it needs a bit of elbow grease and abrasive to shift the stains. In response to V8edd I haven't tried the tfr yet but it's on my list together with the solvent and cream cleaner mix recommended earlier. I have to find somewhere that sells it locally. Also my experiment with the polymer seems to be going well, early days but it certainly came off with barely a wipe with the microfibre cloth on the sill I treated. The microfibre cloths are brilliant for the glass. Thanks for whoever mentioned them.

« **Reply #44 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:04:19 pm »

PS Can anyone tell me what WFP means. I gather something to do with poles and not working on ladders.

« **Reply #45 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:06:19 pm »

We're learning as well here Marlyn, but if we had to price it, and it took you four hours?

How long did it take to biuld up to needing a four hour clean?

You may have noticed that its not that hard to put pictures on here, press additional options and the browse when you post (but don't write anything else after).

It's possible that the cleaning companies could be interested in you for advertising, because I think what has been discussed meets the definition of really stubborn stains.

« **Reply #46 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:39:07 pm »

It really depends on how active the flies are, at the moment weather is pretty grim so not too bad. If the sun comes out a cleaned window frame can be covered in less than a day. I get very despondent so don't always clean them off for a week or two which only makes it harder to get off, like I said before the sun seems to bake it into the plastic. I have only just cleaned it all so perhaps next week I will try to download a picture or two so you can see the extent of the problem. Not sure if it will show very well but will give it a go.

« **Reply #47 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:43:34 pm »

Yes your grasp of WFP is as good as any. We argue over the finer points.
When they say trad they usually mean a soapy applicator scrub with the glass bladed dry by a squeegee.(similar to a car windowscreen wiper).
Many use both methods.

WFP is applying water that has been prefiltered to remove all of the minerals and impurities from it to your glass and frames.These systems cost between two and ten thousand pounds, but it's faster, safer, and many consider does a better job.

Your frame is cleaned as a by product and the glass is left with no static charge and no dust/dirt adhereing soap so that it stays much cleaner for longer.

The controversial part is that we leave the windows wet, and some people find this hard to accept.

« **Reply #48 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:48:17 pm »

Don't think that would shift my fly poo!! Not unless it has sand in it! By the way I did do the gutters as well. There are only 6 windows and two doors. Gutters are easier. I don't think I will find anyone who wants to tackle the fly poo regularly even though it's a bungalow. It would be too much hard work.

« **Reply #49 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:53:15 pm »

An ounce of prevention Marylin, theres an herb that flies hate and will not go near ,I think its sage but Im not sure , Ask any chef ,it keeps flies out of the kitchen , a few window boxes full of the stuff may do the trick

« **Reply #50 on:** July 14, 2007, 09:03:10 pm »

Apparently they don't like Lavender. Whole garden in front was full of the stuff when we bought it, should have realised there was a reason. However, didn't make any difference but you could smell the Lavender right down the lane!

« **Reply #51 on:** July 14, 2007, 09:20:05 pm »

Out of interest Marilyn, pats in america.

« **Reply #52 on:** July 14, 2007, 09:35:48 pm »

another good cleaner is this but the postage is horrendous but shifts any marks from upvc quicker than anything ive tried but the doktor power is cheaper

http://www.fascias.co.uk

goto search and type in cleaner click upvc cleaner

« **Reply #53 on:** July 15, 2007, 09:03:29 am »

I have been on LOTS of fly sites (loads in America) and there are numerous remedies to choose from. The herbs most popular are Basil, Thyme (which we have growing in abundance, doesn't work) and Lemongrass.
I have more or less given up on deterrent. If it was that easy surely no-one would need flyscreens?
Trouble with any plants is growing enough to deter the blighters. Might be Ok inside. I have still got a lot of cleaning suggestions to try but will take a while to try them. Will let you all know when I find the Holy Grail. Thanks very much for all your help.
Have just ordered two new front bay windows and a door so must find something before they are fitted in September. I'm hoping starting off with a new surface will help but don't want to use the scourers on them if I can help it. I wanted to get dark wood effect as wouldn't show so much but lord and master doesn't like wood effect. Perhaps I should make him clean them!

« **Reply #54 on:** July 15, 2007, 09:17:48 am »

I know, how about a wheelbarrow full of fresh manure every day? Got to be more attractive than slippery window frames.

« **Reply #55 on:** September 27, 2007, 06:36:36 pm »

Hi Guys

For anyone interested I have now got my new windows. They are still being hit by fly poo but I have been coating them in silicone after cleaning and I can safely say that the Vanish is pretty good most of the time for none abrasive cleaning. The Doktor Power is really good for shifting the difficult stuff.

Thanks for all your advice guys.
Happy Cleaning
Marilyn

« **Reply #56 on:** September 27, 2007, 06:51:55 pm »

Marilyn, funny thing is, since you posted some months ago loads of my customers frames have had this spotting. It seems to come off fairly easily provided it's not been baked on. I use plenty of pure water and most spots wash away. They seem to be caused by spiders in my area - all those gastric juices and fly blood I reckon.

« **Reply #57 on:** September 27, 2007, 11:47:28 pm »

Ha! This post made me laugh, is it a wind-up?

« **Reply #58 on:** September 28, 2007, 09:05:38 pm »

No this is definitely no wind up!!! And mine is definitely fly poo. I used to think it was spiders until I moved here. I should point out I live right opposite a dairy farm with a herd of 90 Jersey and Guernsey cows. The owners are a bit like the Dingles and are stuck in the 50's as far as farm yard cleanliness is concerned. The new windows were installed just before we went on holiday for 10 days and when we came back they were in a hell of a state. I am resigned to having to clean the frames two or three times a week. We tried soap and water seeing as they were new but that is hopeless. I will attempt to post a picture before I clean them next time.

« **Reply #59 on:** September 28, 2007, 09:57:52 pm »

try new windows pvcu woodgrain!!!!!!!

no honest we use diluted TFR non caustic get some from a car valeter make sure its well diluted and non caustic they will come up like new

« **Reply #60 on:** September 28, 2007, 10:19:03 pm »

I actually wanted wood grain but my husband doesn't like it. However, we did get a dark wood grain effect front door. I haven't yet tried the TFR. I forget to look for it when I'm out but will definitely give it a go. Any way roll on a nice cold winter and I can forget about it until next spring. It has definitely cooled down this week and I reckon we will be able to take down the chain door at the back soon.