Water Heater

« **on:** January 16, 2005, 08:02:45 pm »

New Prochem Water Heater for sale on Ebay. Grab a Bargain

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1280&item=4350998049&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

« **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2005, 08:22:02 am »

why are you bidding for your own product, i didnt think you could do that
geoff

« **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2005, 01:58:23 pm »

Geoff
am i missing some thing

« **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:41:05 pm »

Yes Conrad,
the seller of the heater, i believe!! put a bid in after mine ,
and the person who origonally outbid me , "looking back at the id history"
is the same person as the seller $:-\$ $:-\$
let me know if im correct amberville,
geoff ,
p.s. oif this is the case . I am convinced it is , not a very good practise, after all
the seller can put a mimimum price on , but to raise the bid by bidding themselves is out of order, whether its too cheap is no excuse

« **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2005, 07:34:11 am »

You have to be very careful on Ebay, I by mistake put in a high bid for somthing in the last hour and within in minutes the bidding went through the roof.

What was happening.

I have my own thoughts which I cannot say on here as it is a Public forumn.

« **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:55:11 am »

Geoff,

I do believe you are correct in your assumption.

ID on Clean-it-up, 'Amberville', Id on Ebay, 'Liquidreclaim', previous ID on Ebay 'Amberville'.

Chances of being two different people? extremely remote.

Chances of Asteroid hitting NCCA offices tomorrow? Ditto.

I'm not even bidding on it, but Well out of order.

Let 'em keep it.

Regards.

Martin S

« **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:37:24 am »

thanks Martin for coming to the same conclusion as my self,
I was going to bid , had a figure in mind!
but not now , not when the seller is likely to step in and up it again
amberville , can we please have an explanation
geoff

« **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2005, 03:43:17 pm »

Just bought it for £145.00 could be a "sting" no feed back here or on ebay ,also other items for sale all end around the same time. No history of seller. Time will tell!

« **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2005, 03:51:57 pm »

Dub i think you will be ok , amberville is a member on here,
but i didnt like his tactics, has not replied to questions posed
geoff

« **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2005, 04:25:25 pm »

Years of Carpet Cleaning Chemicals are making me paranoid! (LOL)

« **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2005, 08:30:27 pm »

IF it was him i think he is a bad boy

« **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2005, 07:15:29 pm »

I have been told the heater was posted today to me. When it arrives Amberville
will be back in my good books and I will post an apology here!

« **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2005, 08:09:38 am »

Hi,
You can always email E-Bay about prob, but to stop it happening again try this link.
http://www.bidnapper.com/ This sits back with your max bid, then at the last second bangs a bid in. I use it and its great.

Griff

« **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2005, 01:26:03 pm »

Griff,

What Geoff W was on about, was that the seller also appeared to be bidding for his own item for sale, in order to bump up the price. Using that site still wouldn't have prevented that.

Those sites are quite good, but at the end of the day, whatever you do, the highest bid (by proxy) wins anyway. Bidnapper or not.

Regards.

Martin S.

« **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2005, 11:42:13 pm »

Hi Martin,
I know what Geoff was talking about, its called shill billing and is not allowed, these are a few extracts from the E-Bay rules. more can be found on there web site.

Q. Why can't I bid on my own item?

A. Bidding on your own item is called a shill bid. It is an artificial and unfair method for raising the price. Shill bidding is prohibited on eBay by the User Agreement.

Q. What is shill bidding?
A. Shill bidding occurs whenever a seller places a bid on their own item, either directly or through others. An eBay seller is never allowed, under any circumstances, to place a bid on their own item. To avoid even the appearance of this activity, family members and individuals living together, working together or sharing a computer, may not bid on each other's items.

Q. What's wrong with shill bidding?
A. By placing an item on eBay, you are letting the world decide the true value of what you're selling. If you bid on the item yourself, you may be driving up the price of the item artificially, therefore you could encourage buyers to pay more than the true market price for your item. Since shill bidding involves using a separate User ID, you create the false impression that another bidder is interested in the item and willing to pay more for it. This undermines trust in our community and is not tolerated.

Q. Can I get in trouble for shill bidding?
A. Yes. This practice is not permitted according to eBay's User Agreement and in most cases it will result in a 30-day suspension on the first offence. Subsequent violations will result in an indefinite suspension. A number of sellers have already lost their selling privileges and greatly hurt their own business by engaging in shill bidding.

We encourage you to report suspected violations to us so that we can investigate further. The few who engage in shill bidding undermine the integrity of the entire trading community. Their behaviour will not be tolerated.

Q. If I report someone for shill bidding, will they be suspended?
A. It depends on the situation. Many factors will be considered when determining whether shill bidding has occurred. These factors are carefully examined. In the end, only bidders determined to be shills (based on the evidence) are suspended.

Q. What happens if the seller sets up new accounts after the other accounts are suspended?
A. Use of secondary registrations (new accounts) to avoid suspensions is cause for indefinite suspension of all participating registrants.

Q. Is a seller allowed to have more than one registered eBay account?
A. Yes, a seller is permitted more than one eBay registration as long as their reasons are legitimate. However, there should never be any interaction (especially in the areas of bidding or feedback) between the accounts, and all user information MUST be accurate and consistent.

Regards

Griff

« **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2005, 08:32:04 am »

Cheers Griff

« **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2005, 08:17:56 pm »

Reported to E Bay ,
what do e bay respond with ,
no proof

Maybe they are just so stupid they cannot recogonise shill bidding,
or they cannot be bothered,
Or even the fact , they do not want to lose another member ,
this been the more likely scenario
geoff.
p.s. quick search around a few items on ebay , and evidence of shill bidding
is rife ,

« **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2005, 08:21:44 pm »

whilst still fresh in my mind, it would have been decent for amberville to respond
to the accusition, as i do believe he is a member on here!!
At least i would know for sure

or maybe not??
geoff

« **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2005, 12:50:05 am »

Geoff,
Don't think he is going to, do you mate.

Griff :

« **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2005, 11:30:46 am »

To all concerned. Let me explain Briefly. 5 weeks ago I suffered a stroke, and now unable to do my very successful business, Just before Xmas was due to move in new premises, with a long good standing partner. (Lorryisus Ebay name). Due to my illness most of the small equipment we both agreed would be sold on Ebay, to get a true value, my son asked me if he could purchase the heater, and all agreed that he should bid like other persons so I bid like all Ebay members would do for my son. To bid on another persons item is nothing wrong that’s Ebay, my sons offer was half what it made cheque the bids. You all can cheque with my best friend (x partner) for 23 years in business, I do agree that my user name had changed from Amberville to another name but what’s wrong with that, It was because my property is called that, and due to moving soon to another property due to my health, My friend has told me that the item was paid for and has been delivered to the purchaser who has not completed the feedback for him on Ebay after paying extra postage due to not being mainland uk also has not informed this site that all was fine maybe he now knows the true position and feels a bit guilty after it being reporting it to this site and Ebay,. Everything he has sold the purchasers are happy with. Also 2 items I put on Ebay also have been sold. Before the auction ending ending as these was my own property, and due to visiting hospital frequently could not keep replying to questions on Ebay. Cheque the items they stated reasons for sale, This I find very upsetting if only people would email me or my x partner to be told the true position, and not jump to conclusions I have been a member of Ebay for many years with no problems, also Ebay have confirmed that no wrong was done gave them all the proof, Hope this now all comes to an end, to please let me try to have a peaceful recovery, life is very difficult being partly disabled after being so fit and hard working for so many years,
Maybe one day I will be able to help members with problems you may get in business.

Thankyou amberville

« **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2005, 04:44:28 pm »

Now i do feel guily

Having said that , i do hope you understand the reasons for the suspicions
after all i did send questions, and mail,
and to say you where bidding for your son, does look strange!!
How ever , i cannot argue , and wish you well in a speedy recovery,
and good luck in the future
geoff

« **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2005, 08:47:35 pm »

Thankyou to all members that have understood and emailed me a speedy recovery. No bad feelings including ? for reporting me to Ebay for untrue allegations, But would members concerned please be a bit more careful before making comments on the site as we can all become unable to comment quickly for all different reasons, hopefully no other members will end up in my position.

« **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2005, 09:54:39 pm »

Well I received the "unused” prochem heat exchanger Wednesday last. The final purchase price due to shipping costs to Dublin was stg£175.00, the shipping costing stg£35. But a good deal for an unused new item.

Unfourtunaly it must have got damaged in the first class post that took 2 weeks to deliver. The UK postal service also must have tried to repair it! When I went to test it I got a burning plastic smell around the leaking intake housing where it had been patched with some type of glue. I removed the brass intake to see if it needed plumbers tape and found that the internal female thread "inside"Dub the exchanger is cracked. Tape or Glue will not fix this exchanger! Have to go now and clean up all the water on my kitchen floor before the wife gets home.

« **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2005, 01:40:54 am »

What can you say to that,
Other than sorry to hear that mate.

Where do you go from here. might be able to get your money back, as it was not as described.

Griff

« **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2005, 07:15:41 pm »

Oh dear,
pleased i didnt bid any higher, Now im sure Amberville will sort you out with some sort of compensation $:-\$ after all i believe it was described as brand new , unused

now my initial response to this particuler item have been rekindled,
but i will not jump to conclusion!!!!!! after all "i did make myself look a fool to start with " OR DID I

good luck with your claim
geoff

« **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2005, 07:38:02 pm »

I will put it down to experience , Don't have the energy to chase people for refunds. I have started to take the exchanger apart now - will be an expert on them soon! Prochem watch out.