[nathanjd]

Hi Guys,

I'm sure many of you are bored of this one.

But I'm my retiring my Ninja as a backup and its between these two for the main machine.

I cant really split the two machines in terms of features etc, but the only grey area and therefore sticking point for my decision is the vacuum setups.

I will be using the machine mostly as a proper portable (in house) and 1.5" hose because its easier to use generally, averaging 25ft-50ft hose runs.

Regarding the vacuum systems which would you go for based on my needs. I know all the science and the recent videos on this subject, but what do you think.

Ta chaps.

[Richard Cole]

Not sure of the Enforcer but I do have the Storm, but I would say it is the same for both in that they are designed to be left outside the house and run longer vacuum hoses and certainly the Storm will function better with a 2" hose as it will have greater lift. 

From what i have heard the after sales with Ashby's is not great and I would have to question the ethics of the company in their recent testing of an Airflex Turbo along side the Enforcer without permission from the owner and from what i can gather very underhand rigging of the test.

Matt at Cleansmart gives fantastic after sales service and the Storm has proven to be a reliable and trusted machine.  Had mine just under a year and it has proven to faultless and served me well.

[carpet_care]

I also have the storm and its a great machine, i have it van mounted with 2 inch vac hose and its near enough on par with my prowler i used to have and a lot quieter  ;)especially with the vent off hose on aswell.


I have a couple of ninjas av had years but no longer deal with ashbys 

Not willing to say why on an open forum but totally happy with the service from Matt at cleansmart 



   Andy Locke.

[Paul Moss]

Thats cos Andy is Matts gay lover. There its out 

[carpet_care]

Bugger youve sussed me ou Paul !  I thought it was a clost secret

[Shaun_Ashmore]

The main benefit for the enforcer is that it runs off one cord I think with 2 inch vac hose a decent wand you'll get a decent amount of suction anyway, but the old customer service debate will always rear it's head.

Shaun

[james roffey]

Storm and Cleansmart every time    !    For explanation use search facility  

Enforcer never used one never will  !    For explanation use search facility      

[stuart_clark]

I diddnt think using 2" hose with vacs set up in series are advised!

[john martin]

 therefore sticking point for my decision is the vacuum setups.



Regarding the vacuum systems which would you go for based on my needs. I know all the science and the recent videos on this subject, but what do you think.

Ta chaps.

I really dont think anyone knows for sure which is best  ...   
There does seem to be a bit of a swing of late towards series  , couple of the guys on TMF that were running twin 8.4s parallel have now switched to series claiming better performance at the wand .
Ashbys had a usefull video up for a while measuring performance at the wand for twin 6.6 and their electro series setup ,  for some reason they removed it .
Russ Chadd is one of the few ... anywhere who has used both parallel 6.6 and the series Enforcer in working situations so perhaps hes the one to ask .

Cleansmart are now doing custom series version of the airflex , im sure they would do a one cord electro motor setup if u wanted .

 

[stuart_clark]

I used a ninja with supervacs and a piggyback motor thats in series but found the Scorpion left the carpets much drier

[john martin]

I used a ninja with supervacs and a piggyback motor thats in series but found the Scorpion left the carpets much drier

Dunno if you can compare the older flat fan motors with the newer conical fans
There would be be some more CFM + the newer motors are suppose to loose less vacuum under restriction .

[nathanjd]

When did you buy/have your Ninja Stuart? I got mine 2008.

Are you meaning you had the Vac Booster too?

I think you are right about the 2" thing. The 2" is really for big airflow people. I'm running 1.5 on short runs because its just easier, so want the best performance using that.

nath

[james roffey]

2 inch hose on my Airflex turbo made a big difference.

[JandS]

Enforcer because it's basically the same, in fact it
comes with an in tank heater and is £700 cheaper.

[stuart_clark]

I have always  had 2" vacume with my Scorpion/Jag but i wsas told some time ago by his Emenence John Bolton that you were at no advantage the larger bore size vacume with motors mounted in series, My ninjas were 2006 and yes i was using a booster box! somtimes i coupled to ninjas together as one of them had a booster adaptor in the recovery tank!

[jim mca]

What spec enforcer are you comparing to the storm at £700 cheaper

[fibresafe]

Enforcer because it's basically the same, in fact it
comes with an in tank heater and is £700 cheaper.

Have you tried both machines? According to Cleansmart the single power cord Airflex Pro 400psi is the same vac power as the Enforcer. The Airflex Storm is a dual power cord machine with a lot more powerful vac, that's why it needs two power cords. The Airflex Pro 400 is £1899 + VAT so a lot cheaper than the Storm and might be the better option if your not bothered about faster drying.

[john martin]

Enforcer because it's basically the same, in fact it
comes with an in tank heater and is £700 cheaper.

 The Airflex Storm is a dual power cord machine with a lot more powerful vac

The storm has two 640airwatt 6.6 motors on two cords .
On cord one amp draw would be  7.5amps max
on cord two amp draw would be about 10amps max including pump .

With the enforcer Ashbys are trying to maximize the use of each cord while staying at about 13amps on each cord .

So on cord one they put  a 640airwatt (7.5amp ) electro motor  and combine it with a 500 or so airwatt motor( 6amps )  to draw around 13amps on cord one .

So they now have 13amps free on cord two to provide a 3kw immersion heater ,which many would consider usefull or even invaluable .

Most portable users will in reality only use 20 to 75 ft hose for most jobs .
The performance measured where the wand or handtool meet the carpet is the only real figure that matters .
Which is more powerfull ( parallel or series ) is debatable and depends on numerous factors . The hose length , the carpet type , the tool used .

[fibresafe]

Enforcer because it's basically the same, in fact it
comes with an in tank heater and is £700 cheaper.

 The Airflex Storm is a dual power cord machine with a lot more powerful vac

The storm has two 640airwatt 6.6 motors on two cords .
On cord one amp draw would be  7.5amps max
on cord two amp draw would be about 10amps max including pump .

With the enforcer Ashbys are trying to maximize the use of each cord while staying at about 13amps on each cord .

So on cord one they put  a 640airwatt (7.5amp ) electro motor  and combine it with a 500 or so airwatt motor( 6amps )  to draw around 13amps on cord one .

So they now have 13amps free on cord two to provide a 3kw immersion heater ,which many would consider usefull or even invaluable .

Most portable users will in reality only use 20 to 75 ft hose for most jobs .
The performance measured where the wand or handtool meet the carpet is the only real figure that matters .
Which is more powerfull ( parallel or series ) is debatable and depends on numerous factors . The hose length , the carpet type , the tool used .

Like I say, the Airflex Pro is the same set-up as the Enforcer with two vacs and pump on one power cord  . If you want to compare like for like compare the Enforcer and the Airflex Pro 400 - the Airflex Storm 800psi has more powerful vac and is a different kettle of fish.

For hot water from cold in the tank, I beleive the Enforcer needs two heaters (1 immersion, 1 steam mate) needing 2 additional power cords (3 in total), the Magma heater gives you instant hot water from cold using 1 additional power cord.

[john martin]

[/quote]

the Airflex Storm 800psi has more powerful vac and is a different kettle of fish.

For hot water from cold in the tank, I beleive the Enforcer needs two heaters (1 immersion, 1 steam mate) needing 2 additional power cords (3 in total), the Magma heater gives you instant hot water from cold using 1 additional power cord.


[/quote]


Here is An electro three stage (enforcer ) and a 6.6 ( storm )

Please tell me why you think the 6.6 is more powerfull when it clearly isn't  

 http://dev.ametekfsm.com/Bulletins/122235-00.pdf

http://www2.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4762



regarding heaters ...  the enforcer does not need two heaters .   a 3kw immersion is a very effective and reliable heat source on its own .
if you couple it with an inline ... steammate or whichever  ...   the preheated water will get hotter faster and stay hot consistently .
Many consider the ashbys steammate to be one of the best inlines available .

[nathanjd]

Thanks John for your vacuum knowledge, ive read everything you've said on these boards regarding this subject, and you seam to have the voice of reason and impartiality.

I didnt realise the storm needs two wires to work.

FibreSafe: if you have immersion and steammate its one cord. A rocker switch lets you choose either, nothing, immersion or inline(steammate) which is whats been on the ninjas for years

[james roffey]

I use an Airflex triple vac with warm water in the tank, if i need to then i will add the Magma, i am not sure how hot it is but at 300 psi you can hear it "popping" the same sound you get from an iron. i did a job this week where a brightly coloured child's sun tan lotion had been spilt all over a cream carpet, i could not get it out with anything, until i attached the Magma the extra heat worked. yes i use three cords to achieve this  plus two into the nearest sockets and one from the kitchen ring main, dont really see this as much of an inconvenience for the results achieved.

Surely you cant have your cake and eat it, if you want extra power then you are obviously running more amps, so require extra cords.

Nathan regarding impartiality, as owners of these machines we speak as that, owners, I have never owned an Enforcer but nothing i have seen has convinced me it is better than my own machine the Airflex turbo let alone the Storm, it looks better than the Ninja and is probably better than that machine. i can only give my own perspective and if i were in your shoes would buy the Storm, guided by the fact its a well thought out and tried and tested model, ie the Turbo which preceded it, and has good back up and service which you can trust, not something i can say with your alternative supplier, your right though i am not impartial in my view because i have experienced both suppliers which you have shown an interest in.

[john martin]

Thanks John for your vacuum knowledge, ive read everything you've said on these boards regarding this subject, and you seam to have the voice of reason and impartiality.

I didnt realise the storm needs two wires to work.

FibreSafe: if you have immersion and steammate its one cord. A rocker switch lets you choose either, nothing, immersion or inline(steammate) which is whats been on the ninjas for years

I would hit the thanks button if there was one 

[john martin]

Storm has 2 x 6.6 motors. The Enforcer only has one of the powerful Electro vacs. The other motor in the Enforcer is a much less powerful 5amps/400 peak airwatts motor.

If the Enforcer had two of the powerful Electro vacs then, yes, it would be comparable to the Storm machine and would also need two power cords.

Nothing wrong with an immersion heater if you don't mind waiting for the water to heat up.

Yes thats the tradeoff they choose ,  the difference then comes down to series vs parallel and the suction where the wands meets the carpet . Harder  to measure , from russ chadds initial review it would seem to work well enough .

Manufactures probably have to stick to 13 amps to meet regulations , but i would put two electros or 6.6 on one cord without thinking twice , its not that easy to trip switches , and during use restriction causes a certain amp drop .
With the mytee escape , woodbridge has put two electros and a 2500psi pump on one cord !   

[nathanjd]

Thanks james for your thoughts. However this thread is not about cleansmart vs ashbys, two suppliers that i have been dealing with for many years. Its the vacuum question.

[james roffey]

Both suppliers haven different ideas about that, its about who you believe
.

[jim mca]

Storm
twin 6.6 vacs easily runs 100 foot of hose
800psi pump can be used for tile and grout
design easy to work on
auto pump out as standard
warranty transferred if you buy second hand
approved local engineers allowed to service and carry out warranty work

downside no immersion heater

Enforcer

a mix of vac motor configurations    don't know how they perform
400psi pump   on prices for larger but 400 from ninja was pants by all accounts
warranty no idea ashbys policy
local engineers don't think ashbys allow
design showerproof       FANTASTIC   if it works but for Scotland gale proof would be needed

the enforcer should be compared to the airflex pro range just my opinion

 

[JandS]

400psi pump on Ninja is fine.
Mine's nearly 4 years old and all it's needed are
a new pump seal kit.

[jim mca]

JandS

Its only my opinion based on reading posts on here and my opinion takes into account the positive posts from guys like yourself

Jim

[Simon@arenaclean]

I've had series machines and parallel and have to say my preference is parallel and after the Turbo the Storm was always going to be the next step and i've been very happy with that and the excellent support from Cleansmart. The one thing though that is being missed I think is that Cleansmart, Solutions, Alltec & Ashby's have all produced 'Flagship' machines over the last couple of years that have some really nice inovations and the exciting thing is they they are not standing still either. Nothing is ever perfect or ideal and as others have said the debate will go on as to which is best.

The other day I had some stairs/landings in a block of flats to do at short notice and on a whim I took the back up Alltec Pro Plus for a spin. It did surprisingly well if a little slow! But I did take the time to consider putting a couple of the new 5.7's in there with a 200psi pump upgrade. Think that would make a nice machine.

[john martin]

I've had series machines and parallel and have to say my preference is parallel and after the Turbo the Storm was always going to be the next step and i've been very happy with that and the excellent support from Cleansmart. The one thing though that is being missed I think is that Cleansmart, Solutions, Alltec & Ashby's have all produced 'Flagship' machines over the last couple of years that have some really nice inovations and the exciting thing is they they are not standing still either. Nothing is ever perfect or ideal and as others have said the debate will go on as to which is best.

The other day I had some stairs/landings in a block of flats to do at short notice and on a whim I took the back up Alltec Pro Plus for a spin. It did surprisingly well if a little slow! But I did take the time to consider putting a couple of the new 5.7's in there with a 200psi pump upgrade. Think that would make a nice machine.

The pro plus was a very competent design and could definitely be updated ,
I think it originally ran 7.2s so you could fit any motor into it .
replacing the 1.5" hose connector with a 2"would be desirable if you want to run high CFM setup .
Or sticking with the 1.5" hose a simple improvement might be one 6.6 or 8.4 with a standard 5.7 behind it in series .
Giving you 140cfm and 200" lift .



I spotted its big brother on steroids for sale here  ....  the millennium
always wondered what it looked like ...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/alltec-millenium-quad-vac-carpet-cleaner/1008729056
 

[Shaun_Ashmore]

£1500 for that!

I wonder if you got 2 x 8.4 motors which current machine you could fit them in? I dont think their is one, not if you are going to fit a decent pump in also.

Shaun

[john martin]

£1500 for that!

I wonder if you got 2 x 8.4 motors which current machine you could fit them in? I dont think their is one, not if you are going to fit a decent pump in also.

Shaun

Apparently it was 6500 new years ago !  but really there wasn't much like it then or since  .

Im sure you could fit the 8.4s into some of the current machines if you were determined , its one reason why id like to see inside an enforcer , it has the options to run 7.2s so 8.4 should fit some how ... they are big diameter but a bit shorter than a standard vac .

[Shaun_Ashmore]

With the technology you'd have thought that the 8.4 motor would be the next evolution and an easy upgrade at that, I wonder who will claim to be the first? good selling point though.

Shaun

[richie]

I didnt bother to read all the replies but heres my thought.......the Storm is getting awesome reviews.  In fact i have not seen anyone say a bad thing about it.  As for Vac hose......why 1.5 vac hose?  You should be using the 2 inch.  1.5 will just strangle the air flow.

[john martin]

With the technology you'd have thought that the 8.4 motor would be the next evolution and an easy upgrade at that, I wonder who will claim to be the first? good selling point though.

Shaun

Wouldn't be surprised to see them in the jag  , you know hes not going to update the body at this stage so they need a bigger number to get the hype going again . A couple of his friends are field testing them in recoils in the states .

But really its not a huge leap in performance or technology  ... 
Domel have tapered fan 7.2 two stage for years that never gets a mention , its likely ametek copied that .
Performance wise ...  the electro has 645airwatts , the 8.4 almost 700 ....  not a huge difference .

But i would like to try a pair of 8.4s... in an enforcer

[james roffey]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

[john martin]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

Ha ha James         I guess i just read the boards a fair bit  .

[nathanjd]

I didnt bother to read all the replies but heres my thought.......the Storm is getting awesome reviews.  In fact i have not seen anyone say a bad thing about it.  As for Vac hose......why 1.5 vac hose?  You should be using the 2 inch.  1.5 will just strangle the air flow.

Richie: I dont think you need to worry about strangling airflow if you are coming down on the side of high lift vacuum setups.

I have used 2" before and i know its performance is better with high airflow because i had a prowler with it until recently. But using 2" is just simply more annoying than 1.5". Its harder to unload, pack up, lift and use. Plus you need to be much more careful flinging it around a customers house.

[oliver collins]

Hi,i had a triple vac ninja now have a storm and its power and dry times are in a total different league used it on my own carpets and the dry times are loads lower wih the storm.

Oliver Collins rise n shine cleaning

[Russ Chadd]

I will be taking my enforcer to the TACCA day if anyone I interested in having a look

[nathanjd]

I will be taking my enforcer to the TACCA day if anyone I interested in having a look

Sorry if you've answered the question elsewhere Russ (but i heard you are the man in the know) How are you rating the enforcer, to be more specific the vacuum system, i take it you have 5.7SD and 5.7HD config?

Nath

[fibresafe]

Here is An electro three stage (enforcer ) and a 6.6 ( storm )

Please tell me why you think the 6.6 is more powerfull when it clearly isn't  

 http://dev.ametekfsm.com/Bulletins/122235-00.pdf

http://www2.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4762



regarding heaters ...  the enforcer does not need two heaters .   a 3kw immersion is a very effective and reliable heat source on its own .
if you couple it with an inline ... steammate or whichever  ...   the preheated water will get hotter faster and stay hot consistently .
Many consider the ashbys steammate to be one of the best inlines available .

John,

Ashbys can't be using that Electro motor in your link - if you could get that motor in the UK it would draw about 9 amps, which would mean the Enforcer would be drawing over 16 amps in total, and obvioulsly they are not allowed to go over 13 amps.

I think Ashbys are using 1 x 660-117 (5 amps, 400 air watts) and 1 x 660-49 which (7.2 amps and 552 air watts), so not much different to the more expensive Lamb Ameteks they've been using for years, but with a little higher lift but probably a little less airflow:

http://www.electromtr.com/bypass-tangential-exhaust-motors.htm

Cheers

[Russ Chadd]

I will be taking my enforcer to the TACCA day if anyone I interested in having a look

Sorry if you've answered the question elsewhere Russ (but i heard you are the man in the know) How are you rating the enforcer, to be more specific the vacuum system, i take it you have 5.7SD and 5.7HD config?

Nath

Hello Nath

The machine's vac system seems to work very well indeed, to be fair its just as easy to remove the machine from the van and use shorter hoses so at 50' the performance is excellent.
I chose the two 5.7 electro motors you have mentioned, in the series config they work very well together and offer an enormous amount of lift.

Its still early days but my first impressions are positive... i have already previously owned two of the most respected  porty's on the market and i am certainly not disappointed....
For me its not just about  high CFM and lift figures...   

[stuart_clark]

So could three of these electo be fitted to the airflex storm or the scorpion ?

[nathanjd]

For me its not just about  high CFM and lift figures...  

Thanks for your thoughts Russ.

Yes i would with that agree too. For example I am envisioning a slightly quicker setup and packup time for the enforcer, which when the job is done properly in the right amount of time, then all the other excess messing about can be kept to a minimum.

Nathan

[john martin]

Here is An electro three stage (enforcer ) and a 6.6 ( storm )

Please tell me why you think the 6.6 is more powerfull when it clearly isn't  

 http://dev.ametekfsm.com/Bulletins/122235-00.pdf

http://www2.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4762



regarding heaters ...  the enforcer does not need two heaters .   a 3kw immersion is a very effective and reliable heat source on its own .
if you couple it with an inline ... steammate or whichever  ...   the preheated water will get hotter faster and stay hot consistently .
Many consider the ashbys steammate to be one of the best inlines available .

John,

Ashbys can't be using that Electro motor in your link - if you could get that motor in the UK it would draw about 9 amps, which would mean the Enforcer would be drawing over 16 amps in total, and obvioulsly they are not allowed to go over 13 amps.

I think Ashbys are using 1 x 660-117 (5 amps, 400 air watts) and 1 x 660-49 which (7.2 amps and 552 air watts), so not much different to the more expensive Lamb Ameteks they've been using for years, but with a little higher lift but probably a little less airflow:

http://www.electromtr.com/bypass-tangential-exhaust-motors.htm

Cheers

Your 9amps is too high ..

At  230v the most powerfull electro is rated 7.9amps .
But ' running use ' it will drop a couple of amps .

At 120v the same motor draws almost 16 amps ... but note on the link i put up  , larry cobb ( who tests motors extensively ) states  "  Usually draws 14 amps current in a typical extractor "

http://www2.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4762

The Ameteks Ashbys would have used in the past would have given about 210" lift and 95cfm for a pair in series .
The Enforcer is making 230"lift and 117cfm  , going by Cleansmarts measurements on youtube .

 

[james roffey]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

Ha ha James        I guess i just read the boards a fair bit  .

Well that explains it  

Have i missed something ? i have a genuine question, you go to the trouble to give detailed replies to peoples technical questions which you clearly have extensive knowledge of which you clearly did not learn from this forum, all i asked was are you answers authoritative, and how you know. In other words what do you base you clear technical knowledge on, experience in this field, engineering, practical experience ?

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

Ha ha James        I guess i just read the boards a fair bit  .

Well that explains it  

Have i missed something ? i have a genuine question, you go to the trouble to give detailed replies to peoples technical questions which you clearly have extensive knowledge of which you clearly did not learn from this forum, all i asked was are you answers authoritative, and how you know. In other words what do you base you clear technical knowledge on, experience in this field, engineering, practical experience ?

I thought my grammar was bad sometimes....

[fibresafe]

Your 9amps is too high ..

At  230v the most powerfull electro is rated 7.9amps .
But ' running use ' it will drop a couple of amps .

At 120v the same motor draws almost 16 amps ... but note on the link i put up  , larry cobb ( who tests motors extensively ) states  "  Usually draws 14 amps current in a typical extractor "

http://www2.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4762

The Ameteks Ashbys would have used in the past would have given about 210" lift and 95cfm for a pair in series .
The Enforcer is making 230"lift and 117cfm  , going by Cleansmarts measurements on youtube .

 

Sorry John but that's not right. The most powerful UK Electro motor is the Q6600-083A which draws 8.6 amps (which is slightly less powerful than the motor on your link). Best place for you to check that is with Electro motors.

With the wand on the floor (under load) the current will drop a few amps. However when you lift the wand up the amps go right back up (to not much different to 8.6 amps, assuming you have 2" orifice which high powered porties tend to have these days). It will drop a bit more if you are running longer hose runs. You should get hold of a clamp meter and try it out and then you will see for yourself.

That aside, Ashbys can't be using the high powered Electro motors you mentioned because they only have around 11 amps available to power both vac motors: 13 amps minus 2 amps for the 400psi pump = 11 amps for both vac motors. If they used one of the 8.6 amp motor the other motor would need to be 2.5 amps!

[james roffey]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

Ha ha James        I guess i just read the boards a fair bit  .

Well that explains it  

Have i missed something ? i have a genuine question, you go to the trouble to give detailed replies to peoples technical questions which you clearly have extensive knowledge of which you clearly did not learn from this forum, all i asked was are you answers authoritative, and how you know. In other words what do you base you clear technical knowledge on, experience in this field, engineering, practical experience ?

I thought my grammar was bad sometimes....

"I thought my grammar was bad sometimes"

IT IS ANDREW   OH MY WORD IT IS


If i spent my time correcting your poor grammar, spelling and incorrect word usage. I think it would be a rather sad way of spending my time, they are classic symptoms in your case so I will make an exception.

You are clearly fixated with your own ego and petty agenda having become an excessive bore to a large percentage of the members of this forum, why don't you go and join some committee where you can spearhead the running of local allotments, neighbourhood watch or train spotting club, where they are crying out for someone with your unique skills.

You have no concept of irony, if you did you wouldn't respond to a suggestion that your behaviour is annually retentive, with an observation of grammatical errors  
It sort of proves the point, the fact you yourself have poor grammar, spelling and word usage make you a hypocrite too, but we ignore that in the vain hope that you may be making a point.

It all appears to be about feeding your ego, so do not expect a response to any question or statement you may have in future,other than a pre prepared stock response that others have deemed the only sensible way to have a conversation with you.

Having a conversation with you is like an ever decreasing circle, which is ironic in itself.

You remind me of Richard Briers in that particular sitcom, the one big difference is, he is now sadly missed.

And he was funny  http://youtu.be/kX1K69SP-ZM

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

Ha ha James        I guess i just read the boards a fair bit  .

Well that explains it  

Have i missed something ? i have a genuine question, you go to the trouble to give detailed replies to peoples technical questions which you clearly have extensive knowledge of which you clearly did not learn from this forum, all i asked was are you answers authoritative, and how you know. In other words what do you base you clear technical knowledge on, experience in this field, engineering, practical experience ?

I thought my grammar was bad sometimes....

If i spent my time correcting your poor grammar, spelling and incorrect word usage. I think it would be a rather sad way of spending my time, they are classic symptoms in your case so I will make an exception.

Classic defence line is try and turn around your shortcomings on the person who originally commented on your mistakes, I like it. It shows your lack of intelligence.

Nice one 

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

1

I refer to my previous statement

You clearly have a  form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people.  if things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

You are off your rocker 

[james roffey]

2



A form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people. They do things “by the book’’ with no flexibility in the way they complete tasks, and expect others to do and think as they. It’s their way or the highway, basically. They are the worst people to work for or live with. If things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

I respond with my original answer.


A form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people. They do things “by the book’’ with no flexibility in the way they complete tasks, and expect others to do and think as they. It’s their way or the highway, basically. They are the worst people to work for or live with. If things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

What a head case     

[james roffey]

3

I refer to my previous response.

You clearly have a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people. They do things “by the book’’ with no flexibility in the way they complete tasks, and expect others to do and think as they. It’s their way or the highway, basically. They are the worst people to work for or live with. If things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

3

I refer to my previous response.

You clearly have a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people. They do things “by the book’’ with no flexibility in the way they complete tasks, and expect others to do and think as they. It’s their way or the highway, basically. They are the worst people to work for or live with. If things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

Don't be gay! 

[james roffey]

John, don't take this the wrong way but i have often wondered, how do you know this stuff, do you have engineering experience or have you worked in this field.

Ha ha James        I guess i just read the boards a fair bit  .

Well that explains it  

Have i missed something ? i have a genuine question, you go to the trouble to give detailed replies to peoples technical questions which you clearly have extensive knowledge of which you clearly did not learn from this forum, all i asked was are you answers authoritative, and how you know. In other words what do you base you clear technical knowledge on, experience in this field, engineering, practical experience ?

I thought my grammar was bad sometimes....

"I thought my grammar was bad sometimes"

IT IS ANDREW   OH MY WORD IT IS


If i spent my time correcting your poor grammar, spelling and incorrect word usage. I think it would be a rather sad way of spending my time, they are classic symptoms in your case so I will make an exception.

You are clearly fixated with your own ego and petty agenda having become an excessive bore to a large percentage of the members of this forum, why don't you go and join some committee where you can spearhead the running of local allotments, neighbourhood watch or train spotting club, where they are crying out for someone with your unique skills.

You have no concept of irony, if you did you wouldn't respond to a suggestion that your behaviour is annually retentive, with an observation of grammatical errors  
It sort of proves the point, the fact you yourself have poor grammar, spelling and word usage make you a hypocrite too, but we ignore that in the vain hope that you may be making a point.

It all appears to be about feeding your ego, so do not expect a response to any question or statement you may have in future,other than a pre prepared stock response that others have deemed the only sensible way to have a conversation with you.

Having a conversation with you is like an ever decreasing circle, which is ironic in itself.

You remind me of Richard Briers in that particular sitcom, the one big difference is, he is now sadly missed.

And he was funny  http://youtu.be/kX1K69SP-ZM

If above response fails, see below.
4.

I refer to my previous response.

You clearly have a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people. They do things “by the book’’ with no flexibility in the way they complete tasks, and expect others to do and think as they. It’s their way or the highway, basically. They are the worst people to work for or live with. If things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

Learn to use the forum properly pal 

[james roffey]

5.

I refer to my previous response.

You clearly have a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. A collection of very irritating personality traits that include stubbornness, orderliness, and a desire to control others and their surroundings. It makes a person meticulous or fixated about little things, nit-picking or paying extreme attention to detail, and trying to control his or her environment and other people. They do things “by the book’’ with no flexibility in the way they complete tasks, and expect others to do and think as they. It’s their way or the highway, basically. They are the worst people to work for or live with. If things don’t go their way, they go nuts! Anally retentive people are usually very annoying...

[The TACCA Scrutineer]

 

[Carl sands]

Where are the moderators in this ZOO ?

[nathanjd]

Where are the moderators in this ZOO ?

Yes thanks Carl

Back to the subject please.

[james roffey]

With pleasure.

Your never going to be able to establish a definitive answer, the head to head test was carried out on utube between the Airflex the model below the Storm and the Enforcer, which resulted in different conclusions, Mat at Cleansmart suggested an independent test be carried out, so draw your own conclusions.
Bottom line is you have to decide yourself using all the evidence available, i have no idea what the credibility of John Martins technical claims are regarding the specifications etc, he appears to have a great deal of knowledge, but i feel that some history which i am not party to exists, due to his response.
I am not trying to antagonise him i simply asked him a question, because i was intrigued  about his wealth of knowledge on a subject he has gone to a lot of trouble to over the years to inform the rest of us about.

[john martin]

Your 9amps is too high ..

At  230v the most powerfull electro is rated 7.9amps .
But ' running use ' it will drop a couple of amps .

At 120v the same motor draws almost 16 amps ... but note on the link i put up  , larry cobb ( who tests motors extensively ) states  "  Usually draws 14 amps current in a typical extractor "

http://www2.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4762

The Ameteks Ashbys would have used in the past would have given about 210" lift and 95cfm for a pair in series .
The Enforcer is making 230"lift and 117cfm  , going by Cleansmarts measurements on youtube .

 

Sorry John but that's not right. The most powerful UK Electro motor is the Q6600-083A which draws 8.6 amps (which is slightly less powerful than the motor on your link). Best place for you to check that is with Electro motors.

With the wand on the floor (under load) the current will drop a few amps. However when you lift the wand up the amps go right back up (to not much different to 8.6 amps, assuming you have 2" orifice which high powered porties tend to have these days). It will drop a bit more if you are running longer hose runs. You should get hold of a clamp meter and try it out and then you will see for yourself.

That aside, Ashbys can't be using the high powered Electro motors you mentioned because they only have around 11 amps available to power both vac motors: 13 amps minus 2 amps for the 400psi pump = 11 amps for both vac motors. If they used one of the 8.6 amp motor the other motor would need to be 2.5 amps!

Have a look through the Electros here  ,  nothing at 9amps ... or even 8.6   

http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm


Im not talking about a full restriction drop  , just am amp or two total system when you add hose wand etc .
I don't know if Manufactures stick to 13amps  ... the regular1400w three stage ameteks are over 7amps and two of those and a pump have been used on one cord before .