[derek west]

where are the best training schools for fire and flood work?

and would anyone be interested in doing this type of training, if we could get a few of us, we could possibly encourage a trained person to train us, if you get what i mean.

[Nick Attwood]

National Flood School & The BDMA are the best palces. Hold regulary training sessions & exams.

[Neil Williams]

National Flood School

I was just looking at that site (http://www.nationalfloodschool.co.uk/education_and_training.htm)
and a bit of a result as it's only about 15 miles away which makes a change from either a 3 hour drive or expensive train ride to other courses.

[slioch]

where are the best training schools for fire and flood work?

and would anyone be interested in doing this type of training, if we could get a few of us, we could possibly encourage a trained person to train us, if you get what i mean.

I think I do get what you mean but accredited courses such as those for IICRC or BDMA need to be carried out at an accredited school by an accredited trainer.  Accredited schools have to jump through several hoops regarding accommodation and what they have to offer.  So for example, the National Flood School has a flood house and is brilliant for hands-on training and the theory is taught next door in a large purpose built classroom.

If what you are after is something less formal and not leading to a qualification that is different.

[Ian Gourlay]

I think you also need to consider how open the market is even if you are qualified.

[Mike_Roper]

IMO thats the only place to train for F&F work ( if your sure thats what you want to do, I cetainly dont !)
They have been around from before I started carpet cleaning 21yrs ago and as mentioned have hands on reaistic training and the BDMA looks like a well managed association ith some clout.
Mike

[derek west]

think ive worded the second part of my question wrong. what i meant was, if we could possibly get enough of us (and so far its not looking likely) we could approach an approved training course to see if they could do one for us out of standard hours so to speak.
anyhoo, looks like theres only me interested so i'll have a chat with fire and fllod school and the bdma to see what best suits me. cheers for the info guys.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Derek why not offer your 'fully trained services' to your local Chemdry and Rainbow etc etc or offer yourself to loss adjusters?

Talk to Jason Lawal he knows all about this and knows how to get sub contracted work.

Shaun

[derek west]

need to take the course first shaun but yeah i'll have a chat with J at the next ccdo if there is one or at the cleaning show if he goes, might give jk a ring in the week as well. he da maan.

[Neil Williams]

anyhoo, looks like theres only me interested so i'll have a chat with fire and fllod school and the bdma to see what best suits me. cheers for the info guys.

11-13 January if you're interested down here.
Go on come down to the deep south, we even get snow these days to make you feel at home

[derek west]

have you got contact details neil, not sure i can make that one, got pauls training on the 10th. i think 2011 is gonna be the year for training for me. looking to do a few courses over the 12 months.

[Neil Williams]

You'll find them here
http://www.nationalfloodschool.co.uk/education_and_training.htm

[derek west]

is anyone on here interested in doing a fire and flood restoration course, looks like  a  course has been found for us if we can get enough people interested.

email us or put your name on here if you interested. derek@affordablecleaners.co.uk

[Neil Williams]

I'm interested in this sort of work so might be interested in the course subject to location, place, cost and quality of course, afterall I have got a renown specialist for this training just up the road.

[Griffus]

We looked into this a while back.

I think Rainbow pretty much have this type of work wrapped up as they are in with most, if not all of the big insurance firms. It may be possible to get in as a subbie to them but to be honest we decided against it before getting that far down the line.

We wre put off by two main reasons: -
1)    The difficulty in getting regular (if any) jobs, most being insurance work and insurance companys wanting national coverage (Rainbow).
2)    The high initial cost of training / certification / equipment.

The IICRC do a course and I see other's have mentioned the National Flood School. I reckon best to do the IICRC and see what is really involved, in terms of qualifications / insurances / equipment / cost / sourcing work etc.

I'd be interested on hearing what you think once you've delved a little deeper, so keep us informed.

[derek west]

Billy Lakin who was technical director of DRL and laterly Chem Dry training director is now semi retired and is carrying out training on behalf of RIA. Thats the restoration industry association (USA). If there were enough of us he says he would tailor a course to suit. He's based in Stafford so quite central.

we've got 4 interested so far ian, should i put you down as five. details hopefully to follow soon.

[Nick Attwood]

Insurance Companies are more and more insisting that there must be a BDMA Qualified tech on each and every job. Most Loss Adjusters are now also BDMA qualified. Bill Lakin will clarify this also. The BDMA is a must if you expect or hope to get any Insurance work and is the only industry recognised qualification.

You will not get any sub work from any of the franchises ie. Rainbow or ChemDry due to the strict polices inplace by the Insurance Companies. The agreed prices that are in place for Rainbow, ChemDry, Munters & Belfor leave very little room for subing any work any way.

You need to be in with the local loss adjusters to get your own work, some of the smaller firms would be a better place to start like Topmark Adjusters etc, some bigger ones like Cunningham Lindsey & Crawfords will be hard initially. Another good start is local brokers as many of them have a deligated authority so could authorise you to carry work out NFU Brokers also another good start. Once you start to get the work you will find it will open more doors and contacts. IT WONT BE EASY and the money that was in it 4 /5 years ago is no longer there.

[derek west]

the thing is nick, my logical brain tells me that cos theres no work there anymore (on a big scale) chemdry and rainbow are gonna struggle, and could well be there downfall, now is the time for us small indipendents to come up through the cracks, we can sustain our businesses without insurance work and if we start to get some then thats just a bonus. nows the time guys. it'll be too late when chem and rain collapse, someone else will all ready be waiting in the wings.

the thing is, knowledge breeds confidence. and confidence is what gets you work.

[Nick Attwood]

d, its not that there is no work there anymore its the job values that are no longer there, the likes of ChemDry are a Carpet Cleaning Franchise you dont buy an insurance or fire and flood franchise from ChemDry there main business is carpet cleaning so like us can sustain there businesses. The reason for a large amount of Rainbow Franchises folding in the last few years is down to the contract they have with RBS. The job values are not making enough to cover the job. The Insurance Companys are also doing alot more cash settlement, Aviva for example just bought Asprea that was there preffered building supplier so Aviva now have there own supplier in house. Independents will never get much work unless its from an adjuster or broker. The Insurance Coys have to have national coverage with one reporting system. I've been in the industry for a fair few years now and am talking from experience. I am independent now and have been since Aug this year. Im not trying to put you off, just trying to give you facts. I wish you every luck and if you want any info on pricings or anything else etc I can let you know what the ChemDry's etc are charging as per there agreed pricing schedules with the insurers.

[fitz2kleen]

both my partner and myself both qualified in fire and flood restoration with Rainbow and yes you are right they are the preferred suplliers of this work to the majority of the insurance companies.
there's very little hope of getting even the smallest jobs from them, even loss adjusters have to follow the laid down guidelines of preferred suppliers.
the problem will come when the insurance work dries up for them.... what are they gonna do then?
they will go back to carpet cleaning where they started and make it very difficult for the smaller businesses to make a living.

[Nick Attwood]

As i was saying fitz

[Carpet Dawg]

they have already stared!!! i've noticed a large increase in chemdrys taking up places in google adwords for resadential jobs!

Three in my area are constantly there and have been for the last 10 months or so.

[derek west]

good on ya for going it alone nick and i'm sure you'll be a very good contributer on this forum, lets hope you don't scare easy and have a thick skin.

the thing is, i'm not doing the course to get fire and flood work, i want to do it cos like i  said, knowledge breeds confidence. if i get any work from it then its a bonus and theres also right place right time scenario.

while your there, (and i'm hoping to learn more on this bit on the course) but what happens if the company thats flooded call me before there insurance? what rights have i to take on the job? especially if i suck out all the water a couple of hours after the flood.

for instance, i was contacted by specsavers as they had a bad flood in there shop. if i'd of gone to get the water out, while they were contactinmg there insurance company, i would still need paying for my services, what would happen next, would the insurance pay for my services but tell me to stop or would they kick me off the job and not pay leaving the shop to pay my bill or would they talk to me and say carry on, your there now so you may as well get on with it.
or something completely different?

fitz
not at there prices me young, i don't worry bout chemdry and certainly don't worry bout rainbow. did a job for the motherinlaw of our local rainbow operative, she said "i aint paying his prices, even with a discount"

[happy mondays]

they have already stared!!! i've noticed a large increase in chemdrys taking up places in google adwords for resadential jobs!

Three in my area are constanly there and have been for the last 10 months or so.

    ur a superstar

Derek Dave T (chemdry) and Paul S (Rainbow) have been running a business/businesses for 20 years plus in our area, they are both on the ball, they will always make money and run a profitable business even without any insurance work.


Maybe Paul S doesnt get on with his mum in law   

[Nick Attwood]

d, you will always need to highlight in that situation that you are working for the client who called and they are responsible for your bill. As for the insurance coy's every time it could be different it all depends on the call handler.

Always highlight your working for the client and they pay you its there duty to claw the amount bac from the insurer.

[derek west]

they have already stared!!! i've noticed a large increase in chemdrys taking up places in google adwords for resadential jobs!

Three in my area are constanly there and have been for the last 10 months or so.

    ur a superstar

Derek Dave T (chemdry) and Paul S (Rainbow) have been running a business/businesses for 20 years plus in our area, they are both on the ball, they will always make money and run a profitable business even without any insurance work.  

but they won't effect me paul. think dave's been going for 30 years aint he? 11 kids now

cheers nick

[Nick Attwood]

 d, also meant to say larger companys lie specsavers are unlikely to call the insurance company unless it is a large claim due to the size of there excess. Most of these properties are handled by a facilities management company.

[derek west]

interesting.

one job will get me my course fee back so its a no brainer really. come on guys, must be a few out there who fancies a bit of the old grey matter enhancing.

[happy mondays]

Yea Dave T has always been busy  , ive got alot of respect for him   doesnt affect me either, i make myself as busy as I need to be.

They both have the contacts and experience in the insurance work.  

[Carpet Dawg]

they have already stared!!! i've noticed a large increase in chemdrys taking up places in google adwords for resadential jobs!

Three in my area are constanly there and have been for the last 10 months or so.

    ur a superstar

Derek Dave T (chemdry) and Paul S (Rainbow) have been running a business/businesses for 20 years plus in our area, they are both on the ball, they will always make money and run a profitable business even without any insurance work.

I was making reference to fitz2kleen post, I should of quoted my bad. I forgot how many people on here have sour attitudes..

I am indeed paul! your misus told me!   toodaloo  

[happy mondays]

they have already stared!!! i've noticed a large increase in chemdrys taking up places in google adwords for resadential jobs!

Three in my area are constanly there and have been for the last 10 months or so.

    ur a superstar

Derek Dave T (chemdry) and Paul S (Rainbow) have been running a business/businesses for 20 years plus in our area, they are both on the ball, they will always make money and run a profitable business even without any insurance work.

I was making reference to fitz2kleen post, I should of quoted my bad. I forgot how many people on here have sour attitudes..

I am indeed paul! your misus told me!   toodaloo  

  I love you Tony ur ace  type a bit slower eh

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

D
I did the Dri-Eaze course about 10 years ago. Very good but quite technical and not a lot hands on. I also didn't take the exam in order to be certified. I wanted the knowledge-I am not interested in being certificated.

the reason being that I am not a 24/7 business and as such you can't really book a flood in for "I'll be with you next Friday madam" as it needs to be dealt with NOW. I'll pick and choose which floods I want to get involved in.

Because I have a full diary I'm never going to be able to offer that level of response. That said, there can be occasions, or for your more important clients, where you will re-arrange your diary to deal with a flood; and then you will need to know what you are doing. Hence the training.

With regard to insurance companies,as has been previoiusly said, policyholders have a duty to minimise damage and therefore once you are on site it's a bit like the old truism "possession is 9/10ths of the law" So if you are on site you can to a great extent control the situation and "yes" you will be paid for your work.

That said, there are many householders who are under-insured and therfore you need to make sure you will be paid before you commit to sorting the problem either by checking with the insurance company or ensuring the householder has the where-with-all to pay you.

In conclusion, I find them problamatic-you need a certain level of equipment; it knackers you diary and your home life but for a one-man band it can still be sufficiently profitable to justify doing the courses so you know what you are doing and don't leave yourself open to being sued for not doing a proper job.

Rog

[Jim_77]

Derek all I can say is do your market research VERY carefully before even spending £1 on fire & flood training!

In this thread, quite a few good arguments have already been made against an independent trader going after the work.

1) The market has shrunk in recent years, particularly on minor flood work (builders been given the work even though they make an ar$e of it).  This means the same number of companies going for less work makes the market much more competitive and has driven prices down to peanuts.

2) Insurance companies DO NOT want to scrat around for local guys in every corner of the land.  They want a "one stop shop" i.e. a national franchise.  One point of contact, one pricing structure, and a nationally agreed level of service which is the same whether their end customers are in Cornwall, Hull or Inverness.  The feedback of management info (MI) is critical so they need it all coming form the same source, i.e. the work done for them rather then them spending ££ on paying their own staff countless man hours rounding up independent companies all over the place.

3) The out of hours element of the work stinks sometimes.

4) You need to have a small army of staff on hand at a moments notice but you also need to not have to pay them for the 95% of the time because you don't need them.  Tricky but manageable if you know enough people who are normally, how should I put it, not normally in employment   Doing it legit will cripple you financially, doing it under the radar will mean your personal drawings disappearing in cash.  Lesser of two evils needs to be adopted, all things considered.

5) At times you can get treated like Baldrick by both the insurers and the end customers.

However having said all that, there are still reasons to go into the market but you would probably need to invest heavily.  No half-hearted attempts... you couldn't just buy a couple of dehums and start advertising the service.

I think JK gave a very good talk on the subject at the last CCDO

I would question whether it would be worth the risk, to be honest.  The only real market must surely be the "self insured" retail chains etc (as mentioned above) who wouldn't bother making a claim but find someone local themselves to deal with the odd flood etc.  Most of those would be pocket change jobs though.

If anyone thinks I'm talking bullocks I'll stand corrected, but that's my take on the situation having been in close contact with the the restoration market for many years

[derek west]

thanks for all the constructive negativity on not doing a fire and flood course, and to be honest i totally agree with most of it, but to say i, or anyone else won't benefit from a course like this is way off the mark.

i know i won't be inundated with flood work once ive taken the course, thats a fact. but the fact is ive allready done flood work, all be it extraction only, the reason to do the course is......

1) confidence in doing the flood work ive all ready done with the advantage of offering good advice beyond the extraction stage
2) the chance to go beyond the extraction stage if it happens. (dib dib dob, be prepared)
3) i'll say it again, knowledge breeds confidence, not just in fire and flood but in everyday quoting, the more you know, the more you feel your worth.

now if those 3 points ive just made aren't worth the course fee and time, then i stand to be corrected, but the way i see it is, theres professional carpet cleaners and theres "we're only carpet cleaners" i know which one i am.

ps... ive done 4 floods to date, not a lot but i don't advertise it. just taking one of those floods past the extraction stage only would pay for my course fee. its really a no brainer.

pps... equipment can be hired so its not like i have to invest.

now, who wants to better them selves and have a good laugh at the same time.

[jasonl]

Derek , for the time and ££ you will spend on getting fire and flood trained/qualified ,the return you will achieve just from jobs that you stumble across will more than give you a great return. I can guarantee you will be amazed at the jobs you have already seen as part of your carpet cleaning, but you will not have seen the earning opportunity from them .

In my opinion Jim is spot on with his post on the diffuculties of getting into the big ,regular meaty work, this does not matter , as you will still earn plenty in a year by merely being aware.

Several people on this forum have contacted me over the years and I have rented /sold equipment to them and given them REAL  training  and documentation .

The biggest aspect of Fire and Flood training is that it should be called awareness , not training , as each job is totally different and common sense has to prevail , and an ability to think of engineered methods to resolve situations is a must.

[derek west]

Derek , for the time and ££ you will spend on getting fire and flood trained/qualified ,the return you will achieve just from jobs that you stumble across will more than give you a great return. I can guarantee you will be amazed at the jobs you have already seen as part of your carpet cleaning, but you will not have seen the earning opportunity from them .

In my opinion Jim is spot on with his post on the diffuculties of getting into the big ,regular meaty work, this does not matter , as you will still earn plenty in a year by merely being aware.

Several people on this forum have contacted me over the years and I have rented /sold equipment to them and given them REAL  training  and documentation .

The biggest aspect of Fire and Flood training is that it should be called awareness , not training , as each job is totally different and common sense has to prevail , and an ability to think of engineered methods to resolve situations is a must.

thats what i was trying to get across, cheers J.

[Ian Gourlay]

When I first started my supplier who disappeared after 6 months had a Fire and Flood Manual for £49

With all the forms etc

I did not buy it

I believe John Flynn did

I think that would have been good enough
.

About a Year ago I did a Pub that had be vandalized by a window being broken and an outside hose put through the broken glass and turned on the hose. Half way through job local builder turns up in his Jaguar and said he was main contractor for Pub Chain and I needed to invoice him

I did get paid in 14 days

There was a TV Documentary about Chem dry Fire and Flood about 3 years ago.

It appeared to me job was more about taking out Funiture and Carpets  putting them in skip and throwing it away
Then Bringing in driers and dehumidifiers
Saw little restoration  apart from walls after Fire

Hope they had new for old.

I would have thought there was work with the victims who are underisured

But no doubt HSE issues come into play

[derek west]

thats 7 of us pencilled in, neil would make 8 and if Ian fancies it thats 9, anyone else fancy it?

[Ian Gourlay]

I would be happy to attend if we have an expert who can provide us with documentation

Guide Book

Etc

Needed for covering small jobs


For Instance I have thousands of caravans round me I never thought of burst pipes being a problem

My Flood jobs tend to be where plumbers have failed to connect pipes
 correctly when installing heating

But i would not pay £300

[derek west]

ian
you should change your name to maria carey, make that whitney houston, dya wanna limo to take you down there as well

we've got 2 options

billy lakin

or flood school

i'll be contacting both this week to see whats what. be nice to see a few more interested.
like i said we've got 7 interested so far, plus neil and whitney.

12 of us would get the price down on the first option to around £180 for the 2 day course.
i'll contact the flood school tomorrow.

[peter maybury]

I have been doing flood work for about 20 years and started off doing the occassional job and making money from hiring the equipment from hire shops then charging the list price to the customer or insurance companies. Over the years I have invested in my own equipment, True the equipment is expensive and it also needs to be stored for the main part of the year when not in use.
True the majority of insurance companies are in with the franchises, There is still opprotunities around and it is getting your number in front of the customer when the disaster happens. Many people will not be insured, many people will not want to claim on their isurance and to a large percentage of people, ecpecially businesses this will not be an issue or something that will even be considered when the panic caused by the situation hits them.
The trick is to get the customer to phone you so that you have an opportunity to reassurre them that it is an event that you can be of great benefit to them. A lot of the jobs that we start are insurance jobs that have tie ins with franchises but  are instructed by the insured,monce started it is very rare that we are asked to remove our equipment to allow the franchises inIt has happened on a few occasions but rarely. I act on getting the job done and Jill my partner gets the paymert authority from somebody. . The insured can tell their insurance company that they want you to do the work. You can contact the loss adjuster or the claims department and convince them that you have the expertise to complete the job at a more competitive price than the franchises.
There are also a lot of other avenues for regular flood work other than insurance companies.
It is a matter of how you personally apprach the situation, but you will need to demonstrate that you can deliver the goods and you will need the  equipment to do the job. Training is the starting point if only to find out the personal equipment - truckmount, good damp reading equipment, and some of your ovn driers and dehumidifiers ( when floods strike very often the hire companies run out) that you need.


If anybody wants to ask any questions am happy to discuss give me a call 07788621555

Would possibly be interested in a course but did a few last year so think I am fairly up to date.

Peter
www.floodcleaners.co.uk

[derek west]

cheers for that pete.

nice to see theres work out there.

i think if you wanna work hard, better yourself and give yourself  confidence in what you can do, this is a good building block. if i can't get enough people to do it i'll just book on the flood school course. bit more expensive but worth  it in the long run.

[JandS]

Does a TM really pump out places that quickly or would a dedicated pump
be better.
Would have thought pumping straight to a drain or into a field would have
been a better option with a dedicated pump.
Or are we talking small floodings not full cellars?

[John Kelly]

Pumps are used when there is water over a few inches. Truckmounts come into their own when dealing with wet carpets, especially glued down commercial. Also removing water from hard floors such as showrooms, factories etc. You can also use them to wash down silt etc then suck it all up. Remember often the electrics are off so you can't always get away using a porty. We recently did a major flood at a university halls of residence. We had 3 truckmounts there all day on the Tuesday. We had it dry by Friday and open for business the following Monday. 73k's worth of carpet saved plus non of the disruption of having them uplifted, floors prepared for new ones etc. We had to replace one wood door threshold.
Last time it happened one of the multi coloured franchises did it and the place was out of commision for over 3 months.

[derek west]

Does a TM really pump out places that quickly or would a dedicated pump
be better.
Would have thought pumping straight to a drain or into a field would have
been a better option with a dedicated pump.
Or are we talking small floodings not full cellars?

why don't ya come with us john.

[jasonl]

In 2007 I dealt with 0over 600 flood claims , I extracted water from 5 of them ,,  the money is in the stripping out , cleaning, storing furniture , drying and monitoring.

Would be easire just to book the flood school course , then get real world experience.

[Ian Gourlay]

ian
you should change your name to maria carey, make that whitney houston, dya wanna limo to take you down there as well



A Helicopter would be my  preferred option

[derek west]

your wish is my command whitney
A chopper it is

[Nick Attwood]

In 2007 I dealt with 0over 600 flood claims , I extracted water from 5 of them ,,  the money is in the stripping out , cleaning, storing furniture , drying and monitoring.

Would be easire just to book the flood school course , then get real world experience.

Well said Jason, cheers for the welcome.

[peter maybury]

The skill in the flood market is in the restoration many of the franchises just strip out because there is more money and less trouble for them that way. With a little bit of effort it is easy to restore and is often in the insurance companies best interest to do so. In time you can build up a team of carftsmen to do a total reinstatement which is often attractive to the insurance company, loss adjuster and customer. At the end of the day it is how you put yourself accoss to people, if you can gain these people's confidence in your experience and abilities then the job is yours over the franchises. It comes down to getting first to the job. A lot of my sites come up in the national listing and I have given work out to a lot of people, where I do have problems is getting the kickbacks, for giving the work, this would give me the revenue to promote the work more but many have promised a 10% commission but it is not that often we see it. When we do get it it gives us the motivation to seek more work in that area. I got the call for the big brither house flood an about 9.00 pm on the thursday night if I had not had a full day the next to days and had a beer, I would have attended myself. I have accounts with national hire companies that will deliver equipment to any uk location so can take work on anywhere.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

[derek west]

spoke to chris netherton today, and he's happy to offer us a discount on the 3 day IICRC WRT course with test (extra cost) certificate(classroom based) or a 1 day teaser course, either class based or hands on. think i fancy the 3 day one, after the 3 day you are then qualified to do the 4 day hands on course which he also said he could do discounted. we need a minimum of 8 for these courses. if anyone is interested and wants to see the full email i got sent from chris then leave your email or email me derek@affordablecleaners.co.uk

still waiting for bill to get back to me. will wait to see what he has to offer and i will contact everyone interested to see what we feel is the best option for us all. thats if we can get enough of us.

cheers guys and remember, knowledge breeds confidence, which leads to higher ticket prices. why? because your worth it.

[Steven Taylor]

knowledge breeds confidence, which leads to higher ticket prices.

Higher ticket prices is based on a number of ecomomic factors & location, not nesseccerily or prodomintly knowledge   

[jasonl]

You wont go wrong Derek at the flood school ,, dont listen to the neg heads ,, you will get a good return on any work you get with some proper training.

The flood school has a supply side , and they have some good kit in at the moment to get you started.

[derek west]

You wont go wrong Derek at the flood school ,, dont listen to the neg heads ,, you will get a good return on any work you get with some proper training.

The flood school has a supply side , and they have some good kit in at the moment to get you started.

i don't J, i'm a man on a mission.

[jasonl]

Stay at the Mulberry if you go there , it has a great , reasonably priced indian restaurant on site , just google Mlberry Farnham .

[derek west]

sounds good, dopiaza, jalfrezi, kahari, but i must ask, in what proximaty does the nearest maccies situate itself from the aforementioned hotel?

[jasonl]

Farnham is a bit too posh for Maccies , prob looking at Aldershot about 5 miles away for that

[derek west]

aldershot it is then

[derek west]

right i'll post the email, hope the mods don't mind the link, big chance to get a discount and learn something invaluable for your business.

Hi Derek,

 

Thanks for your enquiry, I was glad to be able to talk to you too.

 

Essentially the water damage restoration industry costs insurers approx. £3bn per year. Of which approx, £180m p.a. is spent on extraction and emergency drying works. The rule of thumb is that there is 12 water damage events for every 1,000 homes in any given location in the U.K. so it’s quite a large market place which is still in the hands of a relatively small number of companies (Chemdry; Rainbow, Munters, Belfor, Service Master). The average invoice value is £650 for a small Escape of Water such as a dishwasher leak going up to £3500 – 4000 for a full top down flood such as a burst pipe or a river flood.

 

Most water damage technicians start life as carpet cleaners as they get the first call to do the extraction. It’s relatively easy to get the customer to appoint you to do the restorative drying work and the installation of drying equipment is pretty simple and straightforward to do...once you know how.

 

 

1 day introduction to water damage

This is a bespoke course based at the flood school in Farnham, where there is a choice of two types of course. We can do classroom based training discussing the theory of water damage or flood the house and include practical aspects including walking students through the extraction and drying process. A NFS certificate of attendance is issued at the end of the day but no formal examination will be had.

 

Fees

Classroom course only (i.e. no flooding of the house) – minimum of 8 people max of 16 = £800.00 plus VAT for the day to include course booklet; lunch and refreshments.

Flooding of the flood house to include practical aspects of flood damage – minimum of 8 max of 16 = £1500.00 plus VAT for the day to include a course booklet; lunch and refreshments.

 

 

3 day IICRC WRT (Water Restoration Technician)

This is a formal 3 day course, with an examination at the end of the course for those who wish to take it (£40 extra). It includes all the basics for running and performing a Water Damage project and is an internationally recognised course.

 

 

Fees

The fees retail at £325 plus VAT per student but for a course booking of 8 or more students we can offer you a reduced fee of £260.00 plus VAT per student if booked as a whole.

 

After the WRT further enhancements of an Applied Structural Drying  (ASD) course can be had which is a further 4 days tuition – please see www.nationalfloodschool.co.uk. For further details.

 

Derek, Please don’t hesitate to call me if you want to discuss further, essentially, one job and you’ve got the money back so it’s a low investment to a potentially very lucrative career.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

[derek west]

we now have nine showing good interest (thats not including whitney ) in the course, if we can get the maximum 16, we may just be able to get the course fee down even further.

just to let you know, you don't need a truckmount to do flood work. this is a great opportunity to get a high end course at a discounted price. we might even be able to get a group discount for the chosen hotel.

[Nick Attwood]

Which of the courses do you have in mind derek

[derek west]

looking like this one with the 4 day hands on to follow

3 day IICRC WRT (Water Restoration Technician)

[derek west]

me
kev m
dave l
graeme m
ricky m
neil w
steve b
andrew b
jason l
barry l

looks like its gonna be a runner. room for 6 more unless ricky and kev are plus 1.

[derek west]

me
kev
dave l
graeme m
ricky
neil w
steve b
andrew b
jason l
barry l
richard b,s
paul pj

looks like its gonna be a runner. room for 4 more unless ricky and kev are plus 1.

[derek west]

all 16 places have now been pencilled in. anyone else interested will go on the reserves list if anyone pulls out.

[derek west]

good news, managed to negotiate a further discount, the cost now, providing we can get 14 to go will be £220+vat (+£40 for the exam, optional) for the 3 day WRT IICRC. still not got dates but we are looking at mid to late feb 2011. will know either end of the day or monday.

once i have dates i will contact everyone involved. and hopefully will get the 14 needed.

still taking reserve places so if interested get in touch.

cheers guys

[derek west]

right guys, last chance to beat the vat rise, for those not vat registered you need to ring now and request an invoice. we also have a few extra going including.
simon bailey
will russel
and a guy called keith who rang me today.

so anyone who's pulling out, call me now. 07854690355 so i can fill the gaps.
will be ringing everyone in the new year to give ya a kick up the backside to get paid.   
 http://www.farnhamhousehotel.com/
and also we need to sought out a hotel. the one above has a special on at £180 for the 3 nights, does anyone know what its like or can they reccomend any others?

after a hectic water logged xmas, i'm really looking forward to this course.

ps...don't drink to much tonight and happy new year.

[Paul Heath]

That looks a nice place....have you approached them with your" special northern negotiatin skills"  for an all inclusive block booking??
Recieved invoice and will sort it out next week.
Well done for what you have managed to negotiated.
Happy New Year

[derek west]

they all ready had a special on paul so they wouldn't budge, might try again and speak to the organ grinder this time. could do with knowing if its any good though. was hoping neil or simon  would shed some light as there from round that area. will sort it all in the new year. looking froward to it.

[Neil Williams]

was hoping neil or simon  would shed some light as there from round that area.

Don't go to Farnham very offen so can't offer much advice on the place. One thing for sure it's not really walking distance of the town centre, but as per most things in Farnham I'm quite sure the hotel will be quality.

[Hamilton smith]

The NFU offices now have to appoint Servicemaster or Rainbow, some offices may still be appointing another outfit but the mutual (who pay the bill) will stop this. Rainbow don't have a strangle hold on the insurance companies. There are lots of other companies who deliver the same kind of work - belfors, Munters etc. the rates are generally now low enough not to be able to sub contract work and as has been mentioned you probably could not sub it anyway as the contracts insist that a BDMA tech is on site - we probably are not too far away from a BDMA senior tech being required to be on site.
Good money could be made from sub contracting redecorating work but even that now has to be passed to the insurance companies own building supply network. There still is good money to be made though. Don't think that the loss adjusters are able to pass you work as they often have to pass set amounts of work to different networks who are 'approved'.
There will always be people who find a way round systems or are well connected enough to get work but the trend is going in the direction of single supplier who can do it all.
A builder is able to provide drying equipment, an electrician to check circuits maybe PAT test effected electrical equipment, redecorate, replace kitchens etc. Insurance companies often do not appoint independant loss adjusters as they have staff embedded into the company who can do the same job. A loss adjuster has a cost if by appointing one 'builder' you can stop the loss adjusters cost. Even if that means other parts of the claim increase a little why bother to send them??
The saving carpets bit is not a big part of the claim, they often get binned.
The insurance companies are call centres and often want to process the claim fast.
In short don't spend lots of money on getting trained unless you have a definate route in and are prepared to spend a good chunk of money on drying equipment - it ain't cheap!. If you are using crappy dehumidifiers from B&Q you will come unstuck.
The best place to start is not with big national loss adjusters but small companies but it won't be easy.
In fact take that money and time and do something else. Apart from burst pipes which will be oiling a few bank accounts at the moment take a look at how many franchised businesses are for sale.

[derek west]

i get quite offended when people give advice without even advising us who they are. for all we know you could be a failing rainbow franchisee, trying to put people off!

did 6 flood jobs over xmas, all well paid. in fact the total paid is  2 times more than this course, travel and hotel is costing, so to advise me not to take this course is rediculous, with dehums i would of got even more for my troubles,  its a no brainer mate. theres stacks of work out there and most on here would of done some flood work over the xmas period.

just been informed that the course will accept up to 30 students so looks like we can take a few more if any one else is interested.

we now have 18 booked, more the merrier i say.

[Steve. Taylor]

He who dares rodney he who dares

Derek told ya about the sod met or HP on that sofa

[Hamilton smith]

I think its pretty obvious I do have a franchise! There are good things about them and bad things but on balance good. I would not put anyone off trying to get into insurance work but the fact that you got work recently is not suprising with the volumes of work from burst pipes. I have been turning down work and told the person to get a local carpet cleaning business in and then claim on their insurance if required. The difficulty of making it work is when there is not extreme weather. You need the more mundane slow leaks off washing machines etc and quite a few of them or try and juggle between marketing a cleaning business - pre booked work and quoting for work in person and then drop everything and go and deal with a house fire. What do you do with your valued customer who has already booked you in? Doing a little bit of work in a surge situation is ok but dealing with it all the time is a bit more tricky. 2 hour response times for an emergency jobs might get 5 in 1 hour. I did last week.
And no I don't think its rocket science or that franchises do it better its just difficult to get lots of work all of the time.

[derek west]

but thats it mr smith, your advising from a different perspective, i don't want loads of flood work, in fact it wouldn't bother me if i got none ever again, i make good money from carpet cleaning, i'm doing the course for the knowledge, knowledge that will help me with carpet cleaning and also build my confidence in my chosen "profession", my slowest months are jan and feb, this is when occasionally we get very cold weather. so a chance to do a few floods when i'm not very busy is good for business.

2 of the floods i did over xmas clashed with 2 jobs i had booked with regulars, both were very understanding that i had to put the flood work before them. i told them if they had a flood i would do the same for them.

nothing wrong with wanting to learn a bit more just in case, dib dib dib.

[Nick Attwood]

I think its pretty obvious I do have a franchise! There are good things about them and bad things but on balance good. I would not put anyone off trying to get into insurance work but the fact that you got work recently is not suprising with the volumes of work from burst pipes. I have been turning down work and told the person to get a local carpet cleaning business in and then claim on their insurance if required. The difficulty of making it work is when there is not extreme weather. You need the more mundane slow leaks off washing machines etc and quite a few of them or try and juggle between marketing a cleaning business - pre booked work and quoting for work in person and then drop everything and go and deal with a house fire. What do you do with your valued customer who has already booked you in? Doing a little bit of work in a surge situation is ok but dealing with it all the time is a bit more tricky. 2 hour response times for an emergency jobs might get 5 in 1 hour. I did last week.
And no I don't think its rocket science or that franchises do it better its just difficult to get lots of work all of the time.

Is that Graeme Hamilton Smith of ServiceMaster Huddersfield ?

[slioch]

YOU MAY WISH TO CONSIDER AN EMAIL FROM IICRC SENT TODAY 4 JAN.

Dear IICRC Technician

The UK is experiencing large volumes of water damage claims as a direct result of the cold weather and frozen pipes. The National Flood School has had a number of enquiries from Insurers and related service providers for extra-resource especially suitably qualified WRT & ASD technicians.

If you are a professional service provider with these qualifications and have spare capacity to assist in the Water damage restoration phase, then please send an email to the National Flood School .... with a brief description of your experience, qualifications, post codes you operate in, the volume of drying equipment you have available and the number of claims you could realistically service immediately.
 
For example, please see below, which is ideal:
 
Experience and qualifications:                    5 yrs experience IICRC WRT, ASD and FSRT held for 2 years.
Post Codes covered:                                      GU & SO
Volume of drying equipment:                    20 small dehum’s, 10 large dehum’s and 15 air movers.
No of claims capacity:                                     10 burst pipe claims
Contact information:                                      Name, email address and telephone number.
POINTS TO NOTE ARE:
1. THERE IS WORK OUT THERE - WE HAVE A MAJOR SURGE AT THE MOMENT
2. THE ROLE OF THE NFS HERE
3. WHAT THE IDEAL CONTRACTOR SHOULD HAVE IN THE WAY OF EXPERIENCE, QUALIFICATIONS AND KIT (IT AIN'T CHEAP AND WHERE DO YOU STORE IT AFTER THE SURGE?).  YES YOU CAN HIRE IT BUT TRY CALLING A FEW HIRE FIRMS TOMORROW TO SEE HOW DIFFICULT IT IS.

[peter maybury]

As I said earlier it is a matter of getting yourself in front of the customer first I have 15 driers and about 12 dehumidifiers that earn good rates when they are out. A franchisee can only tell you what he has been taught from his organisation it is going to be a very slanted opinion.  An indedendant can quite easily compete with the charges that the frachises charge and make a good living when the work is there.
Treat it as just another string to your bow.

Peter Maybury
 

[jasonl]

As I said earlier it is a matter of getting yourself in front of the customer first I have 15 driers and about 12 dehumidifiers that earn good rates when they are out. A franchisee can only tell you what he has been taught from his organisation it is going to be a very slanted opinion.  An indedendant can quite easily compete with the charges that the frachises charge and make a good living when the work is there.
Treat it as just another string to your bow.

Peter Maybury
 

Agreed ,, franchissees tend to get brainwashed , I know , I was one!

[Hamilton smith]

Yes it is to Nick and I would agree with peter it is not hard to compete on price any price can be undercut and in this case a good return made- and if you are 1st through the door you could be more expensive and have no problem, its an emergency after all.
N.B I believe the national flood school are linked to disaster care who have links to Davies loss adjusters so theres an avenue without being part of a franchise.

If you could got an inside look at a franchise it might be an eye opener but might not teach you anything about a different franchise. Chem Dry operates differently to Servicemaster and Servicemaster to Rainbow etc. There are some things about the others that I think I could not tolerate but they are only my perceptions and the reality might be different. There are huge differences in my network in terms of areas covered and people who just do insurance and those that don't do any

There was someone posting earlier who I think I have met and he had quite a big franchise operation and  has since made an exit. The thing that seemed to be in common is that you ought to run a carpet and upholstery business that does restoration but when you are under service level agreements it is hard to do that. You tend to put the national account work 1st because its reactive and that means you loose sight of advertising/marketing.
The ones who seem to well follow one route or the other not both but there will allways be exceptions.

Not that it matters anyway according to Stargazing live this evening the Andromeda system is going to crash into the milky way and we are all toast.

[Paul Heath]

So lots of Fire damage then....another course. ....over to you then Derek.

[derek west]

 
lets get this done first.

theres now 19 guys going on the course, still places left if anyones interested.

ive just paid and ive also booked my hotel.

i'm staying here www.farnhamhousehotel.com its £194 for the 3 nights and is approximately 1 mile from the flood school. i think it gets dearer as the rooms fill up as it was £180 last week, you have been warned.

theres cheaper like the premier inn in aldershot, (no breakfast) and i'm sure if you shop around you may find something better but i'm happy with this one

feb is gonna be good, roll on  mosster coarse and floodster school

[Paul Heath]

As per previous post they not moving the date then Derek ?

[derek west]

all sorted paul, still the same,  21st 22nd and 23rd of february. deffo confirmed.

get that hotel booked before al the rooms have gone, theres now 20 going.

some top guys on the list so should learn just as much outside the course as in it.

[derek west]

thats 3 booked in the farnham house hotel, rooms filling up fast.

[derek west]

just downloaded the BDMA syllabus
http://www.bdma.org.uk/Education/Syllabus

i never realised just how much to it there is.

[derek west]

 5 places left if anyones interested?

[peter maybury]

Derek
I believe I am all booked in for it.

Peter

[derek west]

nice one peter, can i sit next to you in the exam

[Steve. Taylor]

Derek no copying, no chewing or i will tell the teacher you know

[Neil Williams]

I've asked for the manual up front because there's a lot to take in apparently.
BTW Steve that guy with the analine was hard work and he's gone quiet on me now!

[derek west]

I've asked for the manual up front because there's a lot to take in apparently.
BTW Steve that guy with the analine was hard work and he's gone quiet on me now!

good thinking batman. i'm on it.

[Steve. Taylor]

Derek thats me paid books in the post

Neil why am i not surprised you said that about the guy with the aniline sofa in a nut shell NEXT

SEE YA THERE GOT ME WELLIES TO POLISH & WILL BRING ME RUBBER DUCKS :

[carpetworx]

Plenty of work in Queensland at the moment.

[Paul Heath]

Watch this get deleted...
   Paid up hotel booked...orders being taken for delivery at flood school

[darren_metcalfe]

Hi All,

Sorry to hijack this thread but once any of you guys going on the excellent Flood School Training feel that you need some drying equipment have a look at what I have for sale over on the For Sale Section.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=116403.0

Great piece of professional drying equipment.  It is brilliant for standard water damage i.e. bursts but equally good for localised structural drying, washing machine leaks etc.

Anyway if anyone is interested then drop me a line and enjoy the course.

Darren

[derek west]

Heres a full list of names requesing a place on the course

Kevin Martin
Kevin Martin Colleague
Kevin Martin Colleague (possible)
Neil Williams
Bob Robertson
Will Russell
Simon Bailey
Gary Dolan
Paul from PJ Cleaning
Ricky Montana
Ricky Montana Colleague
Jason Lawal
Dave Lionha
Roger Underhill
Peter Sweeney
Steve Barnet
Barry Livingston
Andrew Briscoe
Colin Fytch
Wayne A1 cleaning
Keith HY5
Peter Maybury
Graeme Marchbank
steve taylor

can the guys that haven't paid or requested an invoice please do so.
call vincent at the flood school 01252 821185. if youve changed your mind can you ring me and let us know so i can remove you from the list. 07854690355

anyone interested in going can you give us a call and i'll ad you to the list.

please note that this course is recognised by the BDMA, and a pre requisite for taking the BDMA exam if you wish to go down that route, something i may look at in the future but for now i just want the knowledge.

this is a fantastic opportunity to save your self a few quid, and advance your business confidentally should a flood situation arise, commercial companies may look twice at your carpet cleaning quote if you also offer discounted flood work, should that company find themselves in that situation. (just a thought).
anyway i'm rambling and need to be 10 miles away as i have a lovely 3 piece suite to clean and a full house, (town house aaaarrrgggggggg) don't you just love town houses with truckmount hoses?

[jasonl]

Hi,

I am interested in these training can you tell me where You gave training and what is overall fee structure.I don't have any knowledge about schools which gives these types of Training.

Thanks!


damage flood

Yes , they do SPAM sandwiches for lunch

[Carpet Dawg]

Hi,

I am interested in these training can you tell me where You gave training and what is overall fee structure.I don't have any knowledge about schools which gives these types of Training.

Thanks!


damage flood

Yes , they do SPAM sandwiches for lunch

I wouldn't expect a reply Jason. Thats Xrumer in action.  Expensive but great tool in the right hands.

[Neil Williams]

My course manual arrived today.
Who would have thought that sucky sucky water could be so technical and I've only got to P6 

[Steve. Taylor]

Neil how many pages? mine should be in the post :

[derek west]

not got mine yet

[Billy Russell]

I've recieved mine! Haven't had time to have a look yet! I'll pick it up from the office tomorrow me thinks!!!

[ianharper]

Great books


http://www.cleancareseminars.net/flood_restoration_management_marketing.htm
http://www.cleancareseminars.net/flood_restoration_technical_procedures.htm

http://www.cleancareseminars.net/fires_out_now_what_vol1_and_2.htm
http://www.cleancareseminars.net/after_the_smoke_clears.htm


http://www.cleancareseminars.net/the_blue_book.htm

[Steve. Taylor]

Just got mine, not many pictures

Some good links there Ian nice one

[derek west]

thats so unfair, i aint got mine yet.

cheers ian, thats my saturday night in sorted, i know!, wild man.

[derek west]

Great books


http://www.cleancareseminars.net/flood_restoration_management_marketing.htm
http://www.cleancareseminars.net/flood_restoration_technical_procedures.htm

http://www.cleancareseminars.net/fires_out_now_what_vol1_and_2.htm
http://www.cleancareseminars.net/after_the_smoke_clears.htm


http://www.cleancareseminars.net/the_blue_book.htm

ian
have i missed something or are those links just adverts?

[Steve. Taylor]

Derek you should get a course manual there great

[ianharper]

http://www.cleancareseminars.net/order_form.htm

[derek west]

 steve
 
ian
 

[Billy Russell]

Derek you should get a course manual there great

 

I agree with Steve!! Derek you really should get one of these manuals there really good! and very interesting!
 

[derek west]

your all barstewards the lot of ya

[Neil Williams]

Derek, which page would you like me to read out to you

[Steve. Taylor]

Derek what did the frog say to the other frog?










































READ IT READ IT READ IT

[derek west]

we don't all have to read with a dictionary at hand, i'll get mine tomorrow and catch up. you guys on page 2 yet?

[derek west]

still hasn't arrived








































so i rang him and he sent it via email in PDF, wooooooooohooooooooooooo

[Billy Russell]

Derek, If your struggling with the big words i'm sure you know a good online dictionary!

[derek west]

and if your struggling with any card games just give us a shout

surely theres a game on facebook you can actually beat me at.

[Steve. Taylor]

No time for facebook games

You should be getting your psychrometry, equilibrium, RH, ACH, CFM

IN ORDER, MY HEAD HURTS ANY CLEVER PEOPLE GOING I CAN SIT NEXT TO

[derek west]

ive all ready bagsied peter, hands off steve, he's mine

[jasonl]

All you have to remember is that hot air holds more moisture than cold air ,and relate al that to the drying situation you are in.

[Steve. Taylor]

Bagsie sitting next to jas

[jasonl]

Its like learning to swim or riding a bike , all of a sudden it just clicks and you get it , they are always good teachers there  anyway.

[derek west]

Bagsie sitting next to jas

i was hedging my bets, peters paid, Jay aint. bird in the hand.

[jasonl]

Bagsie sitting next to jas

i was hedging my bets, peters paid, Jay aint. bird in the hand.

Jay aint paying for another 3 weeks lol

[Steve. Taylor]

Back of the net mr west

Speaking of flood work that reminds me, best get this red rug doctor back to homebase had it 6 months

[Andrew Briscoe]

Good luck to all the guys on this course, would of been there myself,
but solicitors keep cokcing up house move, now moving thurs.
I would imagine the drink will be flowing tonight, and all havin a
good chinwag, and a few sore heads tomorrow i bet 

Andrew

[Steve. Taylor]

Just got home  tomorrow night is beer and curry night
Following day exam : followed by deoderising the class room