[wayne m]

I know it’s probably already been discussed but just wanted to know what hot system you guys have and think is best out of all the ones out there? I’m after a 2 man hot system and know purefreedom have two heat exchangers on the ones they sell but do grippa have the same? What about frost settings do they both have them? Any other advice on them would be helpful. Thanks

[dd]

Might be worth a look at the Aquafactors system. They are in Basssingstoke. It seems good and is supposed to use less diesel, it is also a more powerful unit at 12 kw.

[Spruce]

If its a single operator sysem it will have one heat exchanger. If its a twin operator one it will have 2 heat exchangers. The twin operator systems are more expensive. Heat exchangers and the thermo control temperature valve are expensive so add to the price.

PF don't mention if the price on their website is for a 2 man system or not. They call it an Isothermal 2 diesel fired heater. It could be that the 2 donates that its a 9kw unit as opposed to a 5.2kw unit they used to do. You need to ask the question.  And don't think the illustration showing 99C is what the heaters will heat the water to. They won't.

If you look at Streamline's site you will see they actually list 3 'upright' heaters.

The first is a single operator 5.2kw, which will be the cheapest, a single operator 9kw and a third twin operator 9kw unit which will be the most expensive. Heatwave use the model Thermo 1 for the 5.2kw and Thermo 2 for the 9kw units in either single or twin variants. So there model number is boiler related.

http://www.streamline.systems/products/186-heatwave-thermo-2-horizontal-double-operator

Cleaning spot have listed the Thermo1 at £2799, the Thermo2S (single operator) at £3699 and the Thermo2D (double/twin operator) at £4399 all + VAT. To confuse you, they have used the illustration of the Thermo 2D for all three units. So actually the Thermo 1 and Thermo2S will only have 1 temperature controller on the side and only 1 heat exchanger.

[Spruce]

Might be worth a look at the Aquafactors system. They are in Basssingstoke. It seems good and is supposed to use less diesel, it is also a more powerful unit at 12 kw.

Interesting. I wonder how they account for this statement. " With an Aquafactors Hot Wash hot water window cleaning system, even if the water supply is temporally switched off, at a pole, the heat of the water will not be interrupted and the temperature will remain constant. "
Temporally is a period of time that means different things to different people.

At 12kw they have to incorporate a heat bleed off back to the tank to keep the unit from switching to shut down mode. Eberspacher and Webasto are the same company so in my opinion their internal design will be the same as the older Webasto and Eberspacher hydronic units will be.

[dd]

Not that good at the technical side of things Spruce, but I do remember some time back a guy (possibly in Devon) posting about how good his hot system from Aquafactors was.

[Spruce]

Not that good at the technical side of things Spruce, but I do remember some time back a guy (possibly in Devon) posting about how good his hot system from Aquafactors was.

Thanks for telling us about Aquafactors.

I'm just thinking out aloud.

There's nought wrong with the boiler made by Eberspacher although I haven't personal experience with the hydronic range. (I have an Eber airtronic air diesel heater and that's been superb.)

Webasto have had bigger diesel heaters than 9kw on the market for years but no one has ventured into using them in our industry. Thr reason could be is that they are just too expensive.

I did look elsewhere and the 12kw Eberspacher is the same price Webasto are wanting for the 9kw, so from a value for money point of view the 12kw wins. But I see the fuel consumption on full load is slightly higher than the 9kw as one would expect.

What I find interesting is that the technical jargon lists 6 heat output settings that use an equivalent amount of fuel. So my interpretation is that this is a vast improvement over the 9kw as that just has 2 heat outputs.

http://www.heatso.com/eberspacher-hydronic-m12-24v-12kw-heater-kit/

[dazmond]

I know it’s probably already been discussed but just wanted to know what hot system you guys have and think is best out of all the ones out there? I’m after a 2 man hot system and know purefreedom have two heat exchangers on the ones they sell but do grippa have the same? What about frost settings do they both have them? Any other advice on them would be helpful. Thanks

i think you also need to think of how your going to power these heaters as well (as a lot of split charge relays are just not up to the job).grippa fit a battery to battery smart charger that charges the batteries a lot quicker than just trickle charging them up when driving about and always puts the van battery first so you dont end up with a flat battery!

[NWH]

Exactly Daz this is what they are doing for me tomorrow morning mains hook up and new split charger,these heaters all work the same (diesel) you must have a very good split charge system and an easy mains hook up ie come home plug straight into the side of the van and forget till the morning. If you don’t have this you’ll either be dragging battery’s out the van every other day or have to leave the van running when working,when you have sufficient battery power for these heaters you’ll see how much easier they are to just turn on and forget. Other suppliers in my experience are not bothered once you’ve purchased one, Oliver and Grippa have given me no end of help and support with my heater which I didn’t get from them so I’ll stick with them in the future first class customer service they provide.

[Splash & dash]

Exactly Daz this is what they are doing for me tomorrow morning mains hook up and new split charger,these heaters all work the same (diesel) you must have a very good split charge system and an easy mains hook up ie come home plug straight into the side of the van and forget till the morning. If you don’t have this you’ll either be dragging battery’s out the van every other day or have to leave the van running when working,when you have sufficient battery power for these heaters you’ll see how much easier they are to just turn on and forget. Other suppliers in my experience are not bothered once you’ve purchased one, Oliver and Grippa have given me no end of help and support with my heater which I didn’t get from them so I’ll stick with them in the future first class customer service they provide.

You don’t have to have a split charge fitted mine hasn’t and will run fine without charge for up to 3 days but I do have 2 batteries almost 400 amps in total

[NWH]

Yes but I bet you have to bench charge them very regularly,at the end of the day these heaters need battery power to work whether it’s mains or split both preferably.

[Splash & dash]

Yes but I bet you have to bench charge them very regularly,at the end of the day these heaters need battery power to work whether it’s mains or split both preferably.

Yes I do have a very sofisticated mains charging system that’s fitted into the van  you wouldn’t want to take the batteries out to often , I come from a commercial vehicle back ground but there’s things make truck batteries look light 😬😬😬😬 when working away from home for up to 3 days the whole system with 3 pumps and heater running all day each day it’s fine then charge it up when I get home , I was very sceptical about it lasting that long but it’s fine , a friend of mine who’s a marine electrician did it for me I just told him what I needed it to do and left it to him .
At the time I bought the van new renault said if I connected anything to the vehicle charging system it would invalidate the warrantee so the vehicle electrical are totally separate , it was one of the first vans with this Kenetick charging and at the time you couldn’t get a split charger to work on it , Oliver at Grippatank looked into it with Renault and they said it was a no no , surprising how things have changed in the last 3 years

[windowswashed]

When I had a hot diesel heater 9kw I use to have two separate batteries for water pump and heater and both running off a smart charger then charge both evenings overnight on the mains to top batteries up. Diesel heaters do drain the batteries very quickly if continuously running. I use to have a separate tank and use red diesel for heater. Don't use it anymore, just use warm water with an immersion and an insulated water tank when necessary to prevent freezing

[KS Cleaning]

When I had a hot diesel heater 9kw I use to have two separate batteries for water pump and heater and both running off a smart charger then charge both evenings overnight on the mains to top batteries up. Diesel heaters do drain the batteries very quickly if continuously running. I use to have a separate tank and use red diesel for heater. Don't use it anymore, just use warm water with an immersion and an insulated water tank when necessary to prevent freezing

Aren't you better having the tank uninsulated? That way the tank acts as a radiator to keep everything nice and warm in the back of the van.

[dazmond]

Exactly Daz this is what they are doing for me tomorrow morning mains hook up and new split charger,these heaters all work the same (diesel) you must have a very good split charge system and an easy mains hook up ie come home plug straight into the side of the van and forget till the morning. If you don’t have this you’ll either be dragging battery’s out the van every other day or have to leave the van running when working,when you have sufficient battery power for these heaters you’ll see how much easier they are to just turn on and forget. Other suppliers in my experience are not bothered once you’ve purchased one, Oliver and Grippa have given me no end of help and support with my heater which I didn’t get from them so I’ll stick with them in the future first class customer service they provide.

ive not had chance to try mine out yet nigel as heater only works with the engine running ATM.oliver fitted 2 numax 105ah batteries and the b to b smart charger.im hoping i get at least 2 or 3 days out of them without having to reel an extension lead out to the van to charge the batteries.i prefer not to have to bench charge them up at all and might be able to avoid it completely if i leave my engine running on the odd job but i think if the frost stat kicks in on cold nights i might have to.we ll see.

grippa are driving up with a replacement van and system tomorrow while they sort mine out so i dont lose out on a day or 2 s  work.

[windowswashed]

When I had a hot diesel heater 9kw I use to have two separate batteries for water pump and heater and both running off a smart charger then charge both evenings overnight on the mains to top batteries up. Diesel heaters do drain the batteries very quickly if continuously running. I use to have a separate tank and use red diesel for heater. Don't use it anymore, just use warm water with an immersion and an insulated water tank when necessary to prevent freezing

Aren't you better having the tank uninsulated? That way the tank acts as a radiator to keep everything nice and warm in the back of the van.

No point heating all the back of the van up just for all the heat to escape as soon as the back doors are opened up.  Rather have warm water in insulated tank as it is warm enough to keep hoses from freezing when water is running. Pole hoses are emptied after last clean of the day so no water in the pole hose to freeze. If hose on reel or in pump was frozen I just go back in the house , boil the kettle, pour boiling water over the hose or pump and start circulating water back into the tank so hose has warm water and so does the pump so that it won't freeze again. I don't have that problem anyway as I insulated the back of my van a few years back so nothing freezes inside the van and I only need a small amount of heat in the tank which will stay warm all day unless I run out of water.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

[dazmond]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

have you not got a smart split relay fitted mate?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

have you not got a smart split relay fitted mate?

No as I have the new trafic and at the time of fitting my tank and charger they were not recommended.  On cold my other battery lasted days on one charge.     I think the new battery may be faulty as it also seems to discharge when not in use too.   I have not used the frost protection yet so that's not the reason

[The Jester of Wibbly]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

have you not got a smart split relay fitted mate?

No as I have the new trafic and at the time of fitting my tank and charger they were not recommended.  On cold my other battery lasted days on one charge.     I think the new battery may be faulty as it also seems to discharge when not in use too.   I have not used the frost protection yet so that's not the reason.

[dazmond]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

have you not got a smart split relay fitted mate?

No as I have the new trafic and at the time of fitting my tank and charger they were not recommended.  On cold my other battery lasted days on one charge.     I think the new battery may be faulty as it also seems to discharge when not in use too.   I have not used the frost protection yet so that's not the reason

i didnt think they fitted these heaters unless you have a smart charger fitted as well.it just shows you how heavy these heaters are on the batteries(every windy whos ever had a diesel heater says the same).if the batteries have been discharged too low they ll be knackered surely?

[dazmond]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

have you not got a smart split relay fitted mate?

No as I have the new trafic and at the time of fitting my tank and charger they were not recommended.  On cold my other battery lasted days on one charge.     I think the new battery may be faulty as it also seems to discharge when not in use too.   I have not used the frost protection yet so that's not the reason

could your battery charger be dodgy or not charging the batteries up properly?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

If your on a large job like a school or compact area the relay won't charge anyway unless you leave engine running.  I guess that just helps you top up anyway.

I don't mind plugging my van in each night to fully charge batteries. That's what.i have already have done in the past.

Just teething problems so sure it will be fixed soon.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

have you not got a smart split relay fitted mate?

No as I have the new trafic and at the time of fitting my tank and charger they were not recommended.  On cold my other battery lasted days on one charge.     I think the new battery may be faulty as it also seems to discharge when not in use too.   I have not used the frost protection yet so that's not the reason

could your battery charger be dodgy or not charging the batteries up properly?

No. It charges fine. Never missed a beat before (charger is a grippa one installed on the van). It fully charges batteries ok and the voltage reading shows fully charged.   The battery charger reports chsrged too. Then it quickly goes down during use.

But I am no expert though.

[dazmond]

i reckon your going to have no end of trouble without getting a smart charger fitted to help top up your batteries as you work.

[Stoots]

Batteries can go bad with the cold. My leisure battery has been fine up until the recent frosts. Now it's rubbish, having to charge it every night when before it was every other night.

Could buy a new one I suppose. ££££

[Splash & dash]

In am working with grippa on my batteries as my two supplied are only lasting 3 to 4  hours before killing the batteries.  Mine are fully charged via plug during the night.

Something drastically wrong there what amps hour batteries do you have ? Mine has best part of 400 amps and only needs charging after 20 + hours use

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Thanks. Think i have it sorted with the help of Oliver.  In think i can put it down to the cold snap the reason mine dropped so quick.  Today has been much better so far so fingers crossed.

I probably was a bit paranoid when it started to drop so fast and going back to cold to save battery.  I left it on today and seemed to stabilise after it dropped again..

Oliver told me the reading on the controller drops the voltage reading straight away when the burner is on..leaning curve for me.

I will need to still charge it every night but that's was to be expected anyway.  So long as it lasts the day for me I will be chuffed.

It should be all ok. Thanks to Oliver again.

[dazmond]

Thanks. Think i have it sorted with the help of Oliver.  In think i can put it down to the cold snap the reason mine dropped so quick.  Today has been much better so far so fingers crossed.

I probably was a bit paranoid when it started to drop so fast and going back to cold to save battery.  I left it on today and seemed to stabilise after it dropped again..

Oliver told me the reading on the controller drops the voltage reading straight away when the burner is on..leaning curve for me.

I will need to still charge it every night but that's was to be expected anyway.  So long as it lasts the day for me I will be chuffed.

It should be all ok. Thanks to Oliver again.

how are you getting on with the heater paul?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Hi Daz.

Really impressed with it mate. Hope yours goes well to bud.  The Batterries has seemed to settle down much better the last few days too.

[dazmond]

Hi Daz.

Really impressed with it mate. Hope yours goes well to bud.  The Batterries has seemed to settle down much better the last few days too.

hopefully they will be able to fix  the fuel issue today.

[andyM]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

[dazmond]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

grippa are dropping off my van in the next hour or so.ill be using the heater every day!no point spending all that money and just using it when its freezing cold outside.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Nice one Daz.

Wonder how Slacky is getting on ?


I did a gutters and fascia job this afternoon.  Wow...did it in half the time using hot and the results were fab.   It was a doddle rather than a ball ache 

[KS Cleaning]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

grippa are dropping off my van in the next hour or so.ill be using the heater every day!no point spending all that money and just using it when its freezing cold outside.

Why do you want to use it every day when you stated that hot wasn't any quicker?

[p1w1]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

grippa are dropping off my van in the next hour or so.ill be using the heater every day!no point spending all that money and just using it when its freezing cold outside.

Why do you want to use it every day when you stated that hot wasn't any quicker?

That was a month ago..hot will be quicker now and will be able to melt concrete off the glass if needed and upvc cleans wont even need scrubbing now and not forgetting the 3-4 days snow we have every 4 years were it just melts that snow off the ledges resulting in it paying for itself within the month  .
However it is another tool to have when needed i suppose. Having looked  into the diesel heaters myself i just can't convince myself it's worth it (the initial outlay and continuous running costs). If you are mainly commercial where frequency is a lot less and you do lots of 1 offs then i see the benefits but day to day monthly domestic i just don't see any true need for it.
It also seems to vary between users you have some say it doesnt make you quicker just nice to have and some saying they now  do jobs in half the time.

[dazmond]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

grippa are dropping off my van in the next hour or so.ill be using the heater every day!no point spending all that money and just using it when its freezing cold outside.

Why do you want to use it every day when you stated that hot wasn't any quicker?

That was a month ago..hot will be quicker now and will be able to melt concrete off the glass if needed and upvc cleans wont even need scrubbing now and not forgetting the 3-4 days snow we have every 4 years were it just melts that snow off the ledges resulting in it paying for itself within the month  .
However it is another tool to have when needed i suppose. Having looked  into the diesel heaters myself i just can't convince myself it's worth it (the initial outlay and continuous running costs). If you are mainly commercial where frequency is a lot less and you do lots of 1 offs then i see the benefits but day to day monthly domestic i just don't see any true need for it.
It also seems to vary between users you have some say it doesnt make you quicker just nice to have and some saying they now  do jobs in half the time.

hot water is just more comfortable to use than cold water whatever the time of year plus i have a lot of longer frequency cleans these days (some are like first cleans every time their due!).its bound to help.

its mainly to make my working day a little bit more pleasant mate.

warm,supple hoses at this time of year is heaven

[dazmond]

also i dont want to mess about having to  put a heater in my van  during cold nights anymore or having to charge my batteries every night.i can now literally come home from work.purify my water in 40 mins then leave til the morning.

[p1w1]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

grippa are dropping off my van in the next hour or so.ill be using the heater every day!no point spending all that money and just using it when its freezing cold outside.

Why do you want to use it every day when you stated that hot wasn't any quicker?

That was a month ago..hot will be quicker now and will be able to melt concrete off the glass if needed and upvc cleans wont even need scrubbing now and not forgetting the 3-4 days snow we have every 4 years were it just melts that snow off the ledges resulting in it paying for itself within the month  .
However it is another tool to have when needed i suppose. Having looked  into the diesel heaters myself i just can't convince myself it's worth it (the initial outlay and continuous running costs). If you are mainly commercial where frequency is a lot less and you do lots of 1 offs then i see the benefits but day to day monthly domestic i just don't see any true need for it.
It also seems to vary between users you have some say it doesnt make you quicker just nice to have and some saying they now  do jobs in half the time.

hot water is just more comfortable to use than cold water whatever the time of year plus i have a lot of longer frequency cleans these days (some are like first cleans every time their due!).its bound to help.

its mainly to make my working day a little bit more pleasant mate.

warm,supple hoses at this time of year is heaven

Yeah just messing with your change of minds every 5 mins mate . At the end of the day if its what you or anyone wants then why not , i may change my mind by next year  once i get my grippa tank fitted to my new van.

[Simon Trapani]

Good news!
Looks like it is going to warm up next week so you won't need those expensive Hot Water set ups after all.

grippa are dropping off my van in the next hour or so.ill be using the heater every day!no point spending all that money and just using it when its freezing cold outside.

Why do you want to use it every day when you stated that hot wasn't any quicker?

That was a month ago..hot will be quicker now and will be able to melt concrete off the glass if needed and upvc cleans wont even need scrubbing now and not forgetting the 3-4 days snow we have every 4 years were it just melts that snow off the ledges resulting in it paying for itself within the month  .
However it is another tool to have when needed i suppose. Having looked  into the diesel heaters myself i just can't convince myself it's worth it (the initial outlay and continuous running costs). If you are mainly commercial where frequency is a lot less and you do lots of 1 offs then i see the benefits but day to day monthly domestic i just don't see any true need for it.
It also seems to vary between users you have some say it doesnt make you quicker just nice to have and some saying they now  do jobs in half the time.

hot water is just more comfortable to use than cold water whatever the time of year plus i have a lot of longer frequency cleans these days (some are like first cleans every time their due!).its bound to help.

its mainly to make my working day a little bit more pleasant mate.

warm,supple hoses at this time of year is heaven

I'd love a hot water system Daz. It sounds great this weather. I just haven't got that sort of money to spend & don't wanna go down the gas heater or immersion route. Fair play to you though. It sounds great.

[G & M]

I have a hot box which I rarely use so I'm looking into modifying it to heat the water in a static system.  What I want to do is purify the water into a 1000ltr  ibc tank and transfer from there to another insulated ibc tank via the hot box and pump it to the vans from there.  If I ever need the hot box for power washing I will simply disconnect it and take it off to the job I need it for.
Any ideas, suggestions or possible problems welcome.

[dd]

also i dont want to mess about having to  put a heater in my van  during cold nights anymore or having to charge my batteries every night.i can now literally come home from work.purify my water in 40 mins then leave til the morning.

In view of the low mileage you do and now regularly using a diesel heater, I would strongly recommend charging your batteries every night.

[dazmond]

also i dont want to mess about having to  put a heater in my van  during cold nights anymore or having to charge my batteries every night.i can now literally come home from work.purify my water in 40 mins then leave til the morning.

In view of the low mileage you do and now regularly using a diesel heater, I would strongly recommend charging your batteries every night.

the vans done 175 miles today so i think the batteries will be fine for tomorrows work!but ill keep an eye on the batteries next week.ill be running my engine for approx an hour a day.is that not enough to charge the batteries?bearing in mind im using a b to b smart charger and 2 numax 105 ah batteries?...we ll see......cheers dd

[dd]

Daz, if you only do around 4000 miles a year why is your engine running for an hour a day?

[dazmond]

Daz, if you only do around 4000 miles a year why is your engine running for an hour a day?

15 mins to work and back and 30 mins for lunch with engine running to keep warm at this time of year. In summer I'll often do the same but with the  air con on instead of the heater.