[Rob Hall]

It would be interesting to see the numbers, certainly.

I will do some work on it Steve.
I will research daytime TV
I have got a rate of £107 per square centimetre for The Mail On Sunday, Interiors spot.
TV will be VERY expensive, but divided by, say, 100, it will work out value for money I am sure.

[Rob Hall]

Rob.

The TV advertising you suggest is the same idea Derek West ultimately has for The Approved Carpet Cleaners Association www.tacca.co.uk

I have seen the rates and viewer numbers for the campaign and its impressive reading.

My thoughts are that for the money involved a directory using a well targeted and managed Adwords campaign to catch those actually shopping for stone cleaning/restoration may get a better return especially with the same budget.

I too have used the Crawshaws Revolution System and agree its a good system in the right situation and we have it as part of the line up of many systems at our disposal.

Next to trial is some Supershine Hards then I have used them all except cheetahs (currently unavailable) some last amazingly well and others are poor for the price but have strong marketing behind them so won't dissapear anytime soon.

I have never tried the Cheetah pads, I have used Twister with a degree of success, however I find Crawshaws Revolution to do the trick.
Any idea why Cheetah pads aren't available?

[Rob Hall]

Some Ideas of TV advertising costs.
I have got the following information from a website called tvadvertisingcosts.co.uk

How much does TV Advertising cost?
To work out the TV Advertising costs for a specific programme or channel, you will need to establish two things, firstly the average TV viewing figures and secondly the traded cost per thousand. For example, to advertise Nationally in This Morning on ITV1 in April 2010 buying adults, would be calculated as follows; Adults Viewers for This Morning = 1 million, ratecard cost per thousand for Adults in April 2010 = £8.21/1000. Therefore 1,000 x £8.21 = £8,210 per 30 seconds.

      

Animated TV Advert Production
If you are running a test or simply want to keep the initial costs to a minimum we would normally advise an animated TV advert which does not require any filming, lighting, actors or locations. An animated TV advert can often be produced for less than £5,000.

So, lets assume 100 of us go for it.

At £8210 we would pay £82.10 each, slightly less than I am paying towards the Tile Doctors site. I am currently receiving around 3-4 leads a month from Tile Doctor for that.
I, for one, am willing to chip in £82 a month to be on TV
It works out at only 50 quid if we dont need locations, lighting etc.
50 QUID!!
I am looking for another 99.
Interested?

[Jamie Pearson]

3 to 4 leads for £82 isn't bad.

I know of a lead generation site for stone floor works and it is/was £30 per lead.

[Rob Hall]

3 to 4 leads for £82 isn't bad.

I know of a lead generation site for stone floor works and it is/was £30 per lead.

Thats just for leads.
I have had 31 leads since April 21st and actually got 11 jobs (at £85+vat a month) Is that still considered good?

[SteveAllan]

I think it depends on your average job ticket. If you making good money per job then the £85 is really just a cost within your prices anyway.

[Rob Hall]

I think it depends on your average job ticket. If you making good money per job then the £85 is really just a cost within your prices anyway.

Thanks Steve, I am starting to think that, the cost ie £85, is a reasonable price to pay IF we are getting the work.

I have had another thought, a different approach to how we all can move forward. I don't want to go in to too many details just now, I need to do a little bit more work on it regarding costs, its nothing new, just a bit smarter and hopefully cheaper than anyone else with the intention of more work for us.

[AshWhite]

Some Ideas of TV advertising costs.
I have got the following information from a website called tvadvertisingcosts.co.uk

How much does TV Advertising cost?
To work out the TV Advertising costs for a specific programme or channel, you will need to establish two things, firstly the average TV viewing figures and secondly the traded cost per thousand. For example, to advertise Nationally in This Morning on ITV1 in April 2010 buying adults, would be calculated as follows; Adults Viewers for This Morning = 1 million, ratecard cost per thousand for Adults in April 2010 = £8.21/1000. Therefore 1,000 x £8.21 = £8,210 per 30 seconds.

      

Animated TV Advert Production
If you are running a test or simply want to keep the initial costs to a minimum we would normally advise an animated TV advert which does not require any filming, lighting, actors or locations. An animated TV advert can often be produced for less than £5,000.

So, lets assume 100 of us go for it.

At £8210 we would pay £82.10 each, slightly less than I am paying towards the Tile Doctors site. I am currently receiving around 3-4 leads a month from Tile Doctor for that.
I, for one, am willing to chip in £82 a month to be on TV
It works out at only 50 quid if we dont need locations, lighting etc.
50 QUID!!
I am looking for another 99.
Interested?

And what good do you think 1 advert a month would do?

[Kev Martin]

IMHO Conversion rates are more important than the leads and that is the hard part of winning stone restoration jobs.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
Marblelife Ltd

[Rob Hall]

Some Ideas of TV advertising costs.
I have got the following information from a website called tvadvertisingcosts.co.uk

How much does TV Advertising cost?
To work out the TV Advertising costs for a specific programme or channel, you will need to establish two things, firstly the average TV viewing figures and secondly the traded cost per thousand. For example, to advertise Nationally in This Morning on ITV1 in April 2010 buying adults, would be calculated as follows; Adults Viewers for This Morning = 1 million, ratecard cost per thousand for Adults in April 2010 = £8.21/1000. Therefore 1,000 x £8.21 = £8,210 per 30 seconds.

Your right AshWhite, probably very little. I was told that to advertise right, it needs to be like a dripping tap,constant. ! a month, then 2, then 3 and build from there. Rome wasn't built in a day!! The more people we got on side, the more ads we could run. However, its dead in the water due to lack of interest. I, for one seem to be flogging a dead horse even trying to raise interest. There are a few that have contacted me privately and will keep in touch with them, and I thank them for their positivity. I have better things to do than convince others that, by joining together, we can do a lot more, but I am happy for you to go it alone AshWhite. Good Luck!
   

Animated TV Advert Production
If you are running a test or simply want to keep the initial costs to a minimum we would normally advise an animated TV advert which does not require any filming, lighting, actors or locations. An animated TV advert can often be produced for less than £5,000.

So, lets assume 100 of us go for it.

At £8210 we would pay £82.10 each, slightly less than I am paying towards the Tile Doctors site. I am currently receiving around 3-4 leads a month from Tile Doctor for that.
I, for one, am willing to chip in £82 a month to be on TV
It works out at only 50 quid if we dont need locations, lighting etc.
50 QUID!!
I am looking for another 99.
Interested?

And what good do you think 1 advert a month would do?

[Rob Hall]

Some Ideas of TV advertising costs.
I have got the following information from a website called tvadvertisingcosts.co.uk

How much does TV Advertising cost?
To work out the TV Advertising costs for a specific programme or channel, you will need to establish two things, firstly the average TV viewing figures and secondly the traded cost per thousand. For example, to advertise Nationally in This Morning on ITV1 in April 2010 buying adults, would be calculated as follows; Adults Viewers for This Morning = 1 million, ratecard cost per thousand for Adults in April 2010 = £8.21/1000. Therefore 1,000 x £8.21 = £8,210 per 30 seconds.

      

Animated TV Advert Production
If you are running a test or simply want to keep the initial costs to a minimum we would normally advise an animated TV advert which does not require any filming, lighting, actors or locations. An animated TV advert can often be produced for less than £5,000.

So, lets assume 100 of us go for it.

At £8210 we would pay £82.10 each, slightly less than I am paying towards the Tile Doctors site. I am currently receiving around 3-4 leads a month from Tile Doctor for that.
I, for one, am willing to chip in £82 a month to be on TV
It works out at only 50 quid if we dont need locations, lighting etc.
50 QUID!!
I am looking for another 99.
Interested?

And what good do you think 1 advert a month would do?

Just noticed your little saying at the bootom of your messages AshWhite

Fortes fortuna adiuvat

Or

Fortune Favours The Bold.

Well, trying to be bold with what I was trying to achieve is obviously not bold enough for you is it?

Do you have any "bold" ideas that we could all consider? I look forward to them.

[Billy Russell]

I thought it was Fortune favours the Brave,

could be wrong though!
 

[AshWhite]

Rob, I think you misunderstood me.

TV advertising would provide a boost for any industry, but I think your £100 would be better served getting 3 leads/month from Tiledoctor than 1 x 30 second ad on morning tv.

[AshWhite]

Also, as Jamie mentioned - you might want to take a look at tacca.co.uk, Derek West set the assosciation up with the TV advertising goal in mind.

Its not something that you're likely to get 100 people to sign up for overnight, as much as I admire your passion.

[Rob Hall]

Also, as Jamie mentioned - you might want to take a look at tacca.co.uk, Derek West set the assosciation up with the TV advertising goal in mind.

Its not something that you're likely to get 100 people to sign up for overnight, as much as I admire your passion.

Sorry Ash, I am having a bloody awful day. I am snapping at everyone for no reason at all.
I will have a look at the lead you sent.

Just as a further thought, TV may be a bit ambitious to start with, but how about a National Magazine aimed at our industry.
Yesterday I was thumbing through a few magazines in WHSmith such as 25 Beautiful Homes...Country Living...etc...you know the sort. If we started in those, I am sure we could get something from them. What do you think?

Happy New Year

I am off to take a chill pill

[Neil Williams]

I'm new to 'stones' and was on the same IICRC cousre that Kev was on, so am totally in agreement with what he said about the course, but I do have 13 years experience in the carpet/upholstery cleaning industry.
Advertising falls into 2 groups for me,
1. those looking specifically for a product/service
2 those who finally give in after being blasted consistantly with a specific advert.

TV advertising falls into Cat 2 where you have to constantly advertise every 15 minutes to get people to remember it..... and that's expensive.....very.
I had a 20 second advert on local radio that went out 5 times a day for 14 days...... number of enquiries.... zero. It would probably have finally caught someone if I'd continued for months and months but I'd have gone out of business long before that paid dividends.
People go to google because they are looking for something specific and that's where the best cost effective advertising is, in the same way as yellow pages used to be.

[Rob Hall]

I'm new to 'stones' and was on the same IICRC cousre that Kev was on, so am totally in agreement with what he said about the course, but I do have 13 years experience in the carpet/upholstery cleaning industry.
Advertising falls into 2 groups for me,
1. those looking specifically for a product/service
2 those who finally give in after being blasted consistantly with a specific advert.

TV advertising falls into Cat 2 where you have to constantly advertise every 15 minutes to get people to remember it..... and that's expensive.....very.
I had a 20 second advert on local radio that went out 5 times a day for 14 days...... number of enquiries.... zero. It would probably have finally caught someone if I'd continued for months and months but I'd have gone out of business long before that paid dividends.
People go to google because they are looking for something specific and that's where the best cost effective advertising is, in the same way as yellow pages used to be.

I think that, after reading all the replies, google is probably the one that is coming up more than any other.
So no point in a joint venture there then, we all pay for 'clicks' from google do we?

Happy New Year to all, it has been a very interesting thread for me.

So, to move it on a step....what do YOU pay per click?

Is it worth sponsoring the page that the results come up on. There are the ones down the right and the ones at the top. I don't bother with any of them when I search for something. My opinion is, if you have to pay to be there, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place!!

Thoughts??

[AshWhite]

Rob, the 'paid for' clicks are the sponsored results at the top and side, so even though you don't click them, plenty of people do.

I'll type more later, as I'm typing on my phone at the moment.

[Rob Hall]

Rob, the 'paid for' clicks are the sponsored results at the top and side, so even though you don't click them, plenty of people do.

I'll type more later, as I'm typing on my phone at the moment.

Thanks Ash, I'm all ears!! As I am sure others are.
I have just typed in to google "Marble Tile Cleaning", the first NON sponsored link is you tube, then, Tile Doctor.
"Tile Cleaning" still has Tile Doctor on the first page albeit the last one.
They are there again with Limestone Cleaning.

How do they do it?

[AshWhite]

Rob, the listings you are talking about are 'organic' listings, they get there because the websites content matches what the searcher is looking for (or at least what Google thinks the searcher is looking for). Sites like Tiledoctor which probably have dozens of other sites linking to it have more 'authority' than a site Joe Bloggs might knock up, so they get placed higher.

There are ways to get your organic listing higher (this is what is meant by SEO - Search Engine Optimisation), by manipulating the text on your site to match what might be searched for, as well as getting bigger sites to link back to yours. This is a bit of a minefield though, as Google is always changing the parameters that it uses to measure a sites 'authority'

However, if you search for "Tile cleaning [some random town name]", you might find that the results change, and you get smaller companies with more 'authority' because their service is closer related to what the searcher is looking for.

Google 'paid for' searches (Adwords, or PPC - Pay Per Click) is a good alternative, as you'll always feature on Page 1, regardless of your content (provided your budget is big enough).

Setting up an Adwords campaign is not something that I can guide you through on the forum, as it would take a few hours to get a decent campaign up and running.

There are books you can buy here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_sabc?url=search-alias%3Daps&pageMinusResults=1&suo=1356782371532#/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=adwords&sprefix=adwor%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aadwords

The Brad Geddes "Advanced Google Adwords" is a good book, but it's probably worth spending a bit of time playing with setting up a campaign before you start reading, otherwise you'll be a bit baffled as to what is being talked about.

I recently re-jigged my campaign, and have cut my adwords spend from £150/month to under £40 - without losing any 'clicks'. As a guide, from 1st December til today I have had 45 Adwords clicks, at a cost of £32.69.