[Hilton]

Just out of interest , to see what level of sales are for those who visit this site are currently  operating at.
Many on here have been around many years so must have had a good level of sales to stay solvent over the years.
Many will be sole operators and others would have just been starting out and feeling a little scared about what they may have let themselves in for.
It may be helpful to note that 10 years ago the average sales for a single van operator was around £35k, I think it was the NCCA that did the research into this but I might be wrong..
No need to leave any names , etc just pick one and let's see what the average is for various levels may give a few that need it some encouragement and others food for thought.

[Glynn]

You need to add more choices.

[Hilton]

Yeah I thought that but it won't let me .
If your doing in the 100000 thousands just pick 100k plus

[Buckland]

Glynn - you still doing less than 5k? Thought you would have broken that barrier by now!

[Dave_Lee]

One man band, partnerships, multi operators, limited companies?
Sales are one thing, profits are another, once met a guy who managed the same turnover as me one year, but had spent 50% of that on marketing compared to my 0.5%.

[Hilton]

Quite simple it's sales.....
This represents the amount of business you are doing,

Not one vote at 25-35k which is a surprise..

[Simon Gerrard]

Glynn - you still doing less than 5k? Thought you would have broken that barrier by now!

Glynn is getting old now and can only manage £4950 a year, but is hoping his recent upgrade from a Puzzi 400 to a Puzzi 405 will help him through the £5k barrier 😃

[Mike Halliday]

Years ago I went on a health & safety course, the instructor taught us some thing that has always stuck with me, it was how graphical information can be tested for honesty and that collected information will always follow a set formula.

It will either be a   parimid (sp)  with the largest figure at the bottom leading to the smallest figure at the top eg imagine the severity of injuries on a building site........ the largest number at the bottom of minor injuries leading to the top which is deaths of  which there will be a small number. The figure make the shape of a parimid

Or it will be a bulge out shape with the smallest number at the top or bottom and the largest number in the middle.eg: people's amount exercise, the bottoms will be small of people who do no excercise, the middle will be large who do moderate excercise and the top small people who do a excessive exercise.

Hope this makes sense

Most collected information follows this formula, apart from this poll which is the exact opposite. the smallest figure is in the middle and the largest at the top and bottom of the earning scale.

In my opinion   This poll is just people purposely giving the wrong answer for a laugh or just lying, does anyone really believe that there are 12 times more people earning the top figure than the one in the middle?

[Hilton]

You could be right of course although I am not sure why anyone would find it funny to post as figure they are not doing, doesn't make any sense.

No, I think that's a pretty fair reflection of what is going on, with new starts at the bottom and established at the top.
Some will be struggling and some will be turning work away because they need to scale up but are resisting it.

Those at the lower end can see that they are not to far away from those in front of them which and by far the majority at the moment are at £55k or above which is very achievable and not considered that high any longer when, as I said a decade ago that would have been in the top earning bracket were at £35 + so something to aim for definitely.

Those in the middle, are probably on the up or stuck looking for a push.

What would be interesting would be new starts that have accelerated quickly to £55k plus say within two years, probably would have been a good option to add.

[clive ware]

Mike - no idea what you`re talking about!

[Simon Gerrard]

Neither has Mike😃

[Mike Halliday]

Wibble....wibble...force9 gale ... A dancing  we will go.....potted meat sandwiches 

[clive ware]

 

[Hilton]

That's what's years of using solvents does to you.....new starters beware 

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Now if Mike had been using mpower he'd be on Egg heads 

[Robin Ray]

A interesting poll would be the level of profit rather than turnover.

Afterall If I was turning over 100k and had an expenditure of  85k I would be better off stacking shelves in tesco. Conversely If I had a turn over of 60k and had an expenditure of only 10k I would be doing very well indeed.

There are a lot of potential expenses in carpet cleaning especially when you start employing.

[JandS]

Yes my father and brother are both builders and both struggle to keep below the VAT level due to the amount they receive.
Unfortunately a lot of it is paid back out at the end of the month to the suppliers.

[Hilton]

The reason for sales over profit has been explained above but if I was doing a 100k a year with only 15% profit then first off I would be pleased I had managed to achieve 100k in sales and then would look at why so much cash was flowing out of the business and put it right.

After all it could be in that 85% that your salary is being included in which case it would put a whole new perspective on how your read into it.

100k sales at the margins CC  operate at should give you a very good standard of living.

[Robin Ray]

Regardless of the words we use to describe these things, the important thing is how much money are you left with after everything is paid for. That is what pays for your standard of living.

I could be turning over billions of pounds and feel very pleased with myself for building such a massive company however if my expenditure is only £1 more than my income my business is dead. The sad fact is many businesses and individuals operate just like this.

[Kev Martin]

Regardless of the words we use to describe these things, the important thing is how much money are you left with after everything is paid for. That is what pays for your standard of living.

I could be turning over billions of pounds and feel very pleased with myself for building such a massive company however if my expenditure is only £1 more than my income my business is dead. The sad fact is many businesses and individuals operate just like this.

Couldn't agree more:
Net Profit is Key! 
Turnover means SFA

[Mike Halliday]

Regardless of the words we use to describe these things, the important thing is how much money are you left with after everything is paid for. That is what pays for your standard of living.

I could be turning over billions of pounds and feel very pleased with myself for building such a massive company however if my expenditure is only £1 more than my income my business is dead. The sad fact is many businesses and individuals operate just like this.

really?........ how? .........many carpet cleaning  business are running at a loss?

 I would think this is untrue,  some  might run at a low profit margin but running at a loss I wouldn't have thought so.

as for turnover being unimportant this is also wrong, your turnover is very important  as this is a baseline for what your net profit can achieve, if your turnover is £100,000 then you have the potential to have a net profit of that figure, but if your turnover is £100 then you will never have a net profit greater than £100 even if you have zero expenses . its better to have the higher turnover even if your net is low as you will alway have the potential to earn upto the turnover amount.

[JandS]

Think I ticked the wrong one, is this turnover, profit before tax or profit after everything is paid.
I've ticked the total profit after everything taken off.

[andre w]

Why can't I see the results to this poll , I haven't voted because I turn over zero at this moment it time is that the reason I don't see the results 

[Your Cleaning Matters]

Guys
Turnover is vanity
Profit is sanity
Simples

[JandS]

Cash is reality.

[Kev Martin]

Regardless of the words we use to describe these things, the important thing is how much money are you left with after everything is paid for. That is what pays for your standard of living.

I could be turning over billions of pounds and feel very pleased with myself for building such a massive company however if my expenditure is only £1 more than my income my business is dead. The sad fact is many businesses and individuals operate just like this.

really?........ how? .........many carpet cleaning  business are running at a loss?

 I would think this is untrue,  some  might run at a low profit margin but running at a loss I wouldn't have thought so.

as for turnover being unimportant this is also wrong, your turnover is very important  as this is a baseline for what your net profit can achieve, if your turnover is £100,000 then you have the potential to have a net profit of that figure, but if your turnover is £100 then you will never have a net profit greater than £100 even if you have zero expenses . its better to have the higher turnover even if your net is low as you will alway have the potential to earn upto the turnover amount.

Your turnover is your earnings!  It is the gross and then ultimately your net profit that counts.  Turnover means nothing and you will never retain the full turnover figure unless you spend nothing to earn it which is impossible unless it is a royalty payment and even then you have to pay tax on that.  If your turnover is £100,000 it means SFA if it costs you £99,500 to get there you might as well deliver newspapers.  I could boost my turnover to £Millions if I wanted to but what's the point if my net retained profit doesn't increase to match?

[Mike Halliday]

I guess you did'nt understand my post then  or maybe you just (as usual) did'n't read it fully before feeling the compulsion  to start typing

I will try and say it simpler ,

what  we want is to make the most profit  possible, but our profit will never be greater than our turnover (got it so far?)  so our turnover is not as you put it 'means sfa '  we will always have costs but  a high turnover gives a greater  profit potential then a low turnover as you can work on reducing  your cost to increase the profit  but if your turnover is low you can have it all as profit but it is still a low amount.

[Hilton]

Why can't I see the results to this poll , I haven't voted because I turn over zero at this moment it time is that the reason I don't see the results 

I'm not sure what you mean by results of the poll, they are there.
Also if you are doing zero in sales then I take it you have not started out yet...?

[Hilton]

Can I suggest that you desist from using boring Americanised cliched quotes, they add nothing and mean less.....

The poll was just to show an indication of 'sales' therefore business being carried out at various levels of development and I think it's achieved that.

[davep]

You get too see poll results once you've voted

[Hilton]

Think I ticked the wrong one, is this turnover, profit before tax or profit after everything is paid.
I've ticked the total profit after everything taken off.
[/quote
It's sales (turnover).

[Robin Ray]

Regardless of the words we use to describe these things, the important thing is how much money are you left with after everything is paid for. That is what pays for your standard of living.

I could be turning over billions of pounds and feel very pleased with myself for building such a massive company however if my expenditure is only £1 more than my income my business is dead. The sad fact is many businesses and individuals operate just like this.

really?........ how? .........many carpet cleaning  business are running at a loss?

 I would think this is untrue,  some  might run at a low profit margin but running at a loss I wouldn't have thought so.

as for turnover being unimportant this is also wrong, your turnover is very important  as this is a baseline for what your net profit can achieve, if your turnover is £100,000 then you have the potential to have a net profit of that figure, but if your turnover is £100 then you will never have a net profit greater than £100 even if you have zero expenses . its better to have the higher turnover even if your net is low as you will alway have the potential to earn upto the turnover amount.

Two word explain what I'm trying to say
1, Illustration
2, Hyperbole

My example is not a real scenario it is an example to explain the importance of profit in relation to turn over. It is purposefully exaggerated so you can t miss the point.

Turn over is very important but what is more important still is the profit generated by that turn over. Kevin has put this well imo.   

[Kev Martin]

I guess you did'nt understand my post then  or maybe you just (as usual) did'n't read it fully before feeling the compulsion  to start typing

I will try and say it simpler ,

what  we want is to make the most profit  possible, but our profit will never be greater than our turnover (got it so far?)  so our turnover is not as you put it 'means sfa '  we will always have costs but  a high turnover gives a greater  profit potential then a low turnover as you can work on reducing  your cost to increase the profit  but if your turnover is low you can have it all as profit but it is still a low amount.

I understood  your post and I read it twice before I replied but ultimately you are wrong!   You cannot make your profit reach your turnover figure. I think what you mean is:

" The higher the gross turnover the more potential there is to increase gross and therefore ultimately net profit"

I have run very successful businesses for 30 odd years and have met many people over the years doing the same at all levels and a lot of different walks of life.

Forgetting the normal cliché like

Turnover = Vanity
Profit = Sanity
Cash = King

Albeit very very true

My own theory, which I believe is the key to success:

Be ethical.
Stay legal.
Make it sustainable by investing in R&D, ongoing training and new equipment.

My accountants theory is:

"When a company is paying tax which increases year on year they have found the key to success"

Finally I think this statement sums it up and many will disagree

"A sole trading company from any walk of life with no brand recognition beyond their own name is more of a job than a company!  In order to be called a successful company it should be able to make money and ultimately a profit without the owner being there."

[Mike Halliday]

So you read it twice and still missed or ignored the one point I was making, perhaps a third time might have been advisable..... but as is often true reading does not imply understanding

My single point is that for you to say that turnover means 'nothing' or 'sweat damn all' is wrong. I have not said that profit can reach your turnover, you keep implying I'm saying this but I have not,

My point is profit can never be higher than turnover so profit is capped by the amount of turnover. you can make changes to decrease expenses which will increase profit but it will be limited by your turnover

It's a simple point which it was not for the fact it criticises something you have posted would be just accepted, but as you consider your thoughts  as though they are written by God  you have a need to type lots of irrelevant points  to bluff your point across

[Kev Martin]

So you read it twice and still missed or ignored the one point I was making, perhaps a third time might have been advisable..... but as is often true reading does not imply understanding

My single point is that for you to say that turnover means 'nothing' or 'sweat damn all' is wrong. I have not said that profit can reach your turnover, you keep implying I'm saying this but I have not,

" The higher the gross turnover the more potential there is to increase gross and therefore ultimately net profit"

My point is profit can never be higher than turnover so profit is capped by the amount of turnover. you can make changes to decrease expenses which will increase profit but it will be limited by your turnover

It's a simple point which it was not for the fact it criticises something you have posted would be just accepted, but as you consider your thoughts  as though they are written by God  you have a need to type lots of irrelevant points  to bluff your point across

Whatever!!!  Have it your way   Your right and I am wrong!!!

[Hilton]

I would just add to this point that the worlds biggest companies sales turn over wise have the lowest profits (pro-rata) even than you and me, the last time I looked Mr Zuckerberg was not going broke any day soon.

I particularly like the 'forgetting the normal cliché' then goes on to list one  and a bad one at that.

The sole trader quote, has some truth ,I agree with Michael Gerber that most technicians do not make good business men, also you do not need a brand name to make money without being present.

[jasonl]

"A sole trading company from any walk of life with no brand recognition beyond their own name is more of a job than a company!  In order to be called a successful company it should be able to make money and ultimately a profit without the owner being there."


This is an incomplete statement.  For example a residual income and future security is a good route for the sole operator, I have several solid clients who call month after month with multi hundred pound jobs across diverse sectors, 40000 of my turnover this year will be from near guaranteed custom.

[Kev Martin]

"A sole trading company from any walk of life with no brand recognition beyond their own name is more of a job than a company!  In order to be called a successful company it should be able to make money and ultimately a profit without the owner being there."


This is an incomplete statement.  For example a residual income and future security is a good route for the sole operator, I have several solid clients who call month after month with multi hundred pound jobs across diverse sectors, 40000 of my turnover this year will be from near guaranteed custom.

Jason

I did say some will disagree!!!

So you have staff who do the work for you when you are not there then?

[Mike Halliday]

This is a big  subject so there will always be differences of opinion.

Let me give an example of why I think turnover is massively  important.

If I was a hat maker and my hats where so good I was selling a £1,000,000 a year of them but I Made them on my kitchen table and when I worked out my cost I found I had a£1,000,000 worth of expenses

I was making zero profit but you could not get away from the fact that I had found a million pound market for hats.

I go on Dragon Den and tell the story of my hat bussiness and my £1,000,000 turnover and how I was making no profit.

Then Tucki Suliman (sp) says......." I can make the exact same hat in Turkey  at 10% of what it cost you" then all of a sudden I have the potential of making £900,000 a year profit   he makes me an offer of £500k  for 40% of my business..... I haggle him down to 25%  and we shake hands.

This is why turnover is important if I had gone of Dragons Den and said I take  £20,000 a year and £19,000 is profit no one would be interested as the no matter how much their invest I only have a £20k market

The   buzz word of profit & sanity is true but the bigger picture is about turnover and working out how much of it you can keep

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Or in other words....

Providing we have good  profit margins which we keep constant (or even increasing) then it makes sense to chase that increasing turnover as ultimately we will have more cash in our pockets.

Simples!

Rog

[Hilton]

Or in other words....

Providing we have good  profit margins which we keep constant (or even increasing) then it makes sense to chase that increasing turnover as ultimately we will have more cash in our pockets.

Simples!

Rog

Nah turnover means SFA 

[derek west]

I would say Lionel messi is a successful business man but i'm pretty sure he has to be there 

[Tony Stewart]

Nice analogy Derek 
Actually a lot of carpet cleaners,hard floor cleaners make good net profit margins. I know that there is the expense of equipment and advertising but many start off with a second hand machine, then maybe trade up to something better etc. But most have their costs under control but as turnover increases then so does the profit. Just my opinion though.

[Ian Harper]

Hilton

Look for ideas that are working outside carpet cleaning then use them. Did you know JP did some work for virgin those letters your get have JP written all over them. I have seen photos of him with Branson on his island.

JP teacher was dan keneddy and he had a inner circle of people from about every market you can name. This direct response message is still being passed on today. If you want more sales seek out these people ans see how they  use this method in their markets. its a formula. look for this in everything whats working can I use it?

Your question is clearly about increasing your own sales and seeing how you are doing. dont do this as your success can only be measured by how much you have changed in the last year not on how others have.  set your own bench marks and just work hard to better them over a set time. when ever you fell uncomfortable with something that has said or being done different to you, you need more understanding of why you feel this way and this is how we grow.

Check out Even Davis on radio 4 botton line he asks some great questions. also more or less by Tim Harford and read his books on economics they are down to earth and easy reading. for me these types of podcasts and books give you the real story of how to do it. Its finding that line where its between The outright BS and high learning. journalists do it really well and dont have any agendas.

I hope you take this post with the respect for you that I have. Good luck



 

[Hilton]

Thanks for the input and advice offered, you assume that I set the poll as I am 'clearly' looking to increase my own sales measured against others, well I think this is what you are implying....................Not really is the answer.

I set it as it is interesting to see at what level the near hundred respondents operate at, of course some will lie for what ever reason but the vast majority will take part for the reasons it was intended. It's clear from the poll that a pattern has emerged which can be useful for all those just starting out and others currently struggling to get ahead and may be concerned that they have made an error even entering the carpet cleaning world, I hope that they will be encouraged by the results and the comments that accompany it.

I will say ,although don't have to, that I have healthy sales and profit in the business I am in and when I look at some of the responses on her there are lots and lots of posts I could answer where I think I could point them in another direction but I choose not to for reasons that I do not think it's for me to question others on their business practises despite how much I might feel they are wrong.

However I am all for education on the subject of business and economics and take the post and the sentiment for which I am sure it was  intended.

[Hilton]

I Will share this with you as I think some might think I had an ulterior motive for setting the poll up but you couldn't be further from the truth....
First off...' what ever stage you are at in your business right now I have been there.'........sleepless nights, dreaded phone calls from the bank,, tax due, etc When on a Tuesday you are told you have to come up with £10k by Friday to stay in business, I have been there and turned it around..................with persistence  and the help of  old Winston who was always with me when he said ......" If you are going through hell,you may as well keep going" so true .

The benefits when you break through of course are wonderfull all the problems disappear suddenly HSBC is your best friend offering you loans you no longer need , offers of investment flood in, want a new van no problem take your pick, you pay your tax and joy of joys you actually have money over.

After what felt like walking through treacle with zero support from anyone ( HSBC were nightmare)  you are suddenly running through a meadow free as a bird to do what you want, plus you actually have something of greater value than money.............freedom.

HSBC actually contacted me to see if I would take part in an advertising campaign locally, my reply was short and to the point ,ending in off........why I am still with them ? because every other bank is exactly the same.

So what happened,.......
It was when I  decided to take control  back become master of my own destiny, I confronted the creditors instead of hiding from them (and there were many) and told them how I was going to turn things around they were either on board or they could  take a running jump for their money,not a business plan ,in my opinion they are and have proved to be worthless by the way the banks don't really want one although they will tell you they do and that's from the horses mouth ...so to speak.

I was shocked that they ALL agreed.

To much to go into but suffice to say I came up with my OWN plan of action ignoring all else and ploughed on  with it, everything began to change and pretty quickly to.... Now I get asked to talk to other business's , others ask if they call in for a chat, I can take days off (and do) and not worry about it as staff can run it easily without me being there, in fact 'they ' tell me to stay away.I love it when I used to hate it.

So looking at the poll I can feel what 'some' of you are going through waking up in the middle of the night sweaty , mind going hay wire, dreading the day ahead wondering will it ever change,......it will.

If I can quote Winston again......".Never ever give up" persistence is the key , I am sure other business's that have been through similar will concur.

I am an avid reader always learning always recommending books ,when people ask me  I always start them off with, a very old one ,'How to win Friends and Influence People.' By Dale Carnegie really is a game changer, another is The Chimp Paradox by Dr Peters  and another I will chuck in that I read recently is The E Myth by Michael Gerber  that one will make seriously think about what you are doing in business.

Get these books read them study them, if you are not a reader then start Straight away,like tomorrow,it will become your best friend.

Good luck to those that need it.

[Kev Martin]

I Will share this with you as I think some might think I had an ulterior motive for setting the poll up but you couldn't be further from the truth....
First off...' what ever stage you are at in your business right now I have been there.'........sleepless nights, dreaded phone calls from the bank,, tax due, etc When on a Tuesday you are told you have to come up with £10k by Friday to stay in business, I have been there and turned it around..................with persistence  and the help of  old Winston who was always with me when he said ......" If you are going through hell,you may as well keep going" so true .

The benefits when you break through of course are wonderfull all the problems disappear suddenly HSBC is your best friend offering you loans you no longer need , offers of investment flood in, want a new van no problem take your pick, you pay your tax and joy of joys you actually have money over.

After what felt like walking through treacle with zero support from anyone ( HSBC were nightmare)  you are suddenly running through a meadow free as a bird to do what you want, plus you actually have something of greater value than money.............freedom.

HSBC actually contacted me to see if I would take part in an advertising campaign locally, my reply was short and to the point ,ending in off........why I am still with them ? because every other bank is exactly the same.

So what happened,.......
It was when I  decided to take control  back become master of my own destiny, I confronted the creditors instead of hiding from them (and there were many) and told them how I was going to turn things around they were either on board or they could  take a running jump for their money,not a business plan ,in my opinion they are and have proved to be worthless by the way the banks don't really want one although they will tell you they do and that's from the horses mouth ...so to speak.

I was shocked that they ALL agreed.

To much to go into but suffice to say I came up with my OWN plan of action ignoring all else and ploughed on  with it, everything began to change and pretty quickly to.... Now I get asked to talk to other business's , others ask if they call in for a chat, I can take days off (and do) and not worry about it as staff can run it easily without me being there, in fact 'they ' tell me to stay away.I love it when I used to hate it.

So looking at the poll I can feel what 'some' of you are going through waking up in the middle of the night sweaty , mind going hay wire, dreading the day ahead wondering will it ever change,......it will.

If I can quote Wnston again......".Never ever give up" persistence is the key , I am sure other business's that have been through similar will concur.

I am an avid reader always learning always recommending books ,when people ask me  I always start them off with, a very old one ,'How to win Friends and Influence People.' By Dale Carnegie really is a game changer, another is The Chimp Paradox by Dr Peters  and another I will chuck in that I read recently is The E Myth by Michael Gerber  that one will make seriously think about what you are doing in business.

Get these books read them study them, if you are not a reader then start Straight away,like tomorrow,it will become your best friend.

Good luck to those that need it.

Little shocking to read that but,  I can tell you have been through it and ultimately as you know it makes you so strong you actually become more powerful than them as long as you have the backing and the courage of your own convictions.  When you hit rock bottom as I have twice you make sure nobody can hurt you   Hmmmm  it is a great feeling though, to come out the other end where you are in command.  You are of course absolutely  right because a couple of weeks ago I tested the bank with £100K plus project and they were frightened to death.  They couldn't say no so they offered me 55% with the rest to come from my own assets and then said "They would feel more comfortable with a charge on my property for their 55%"       Needless to say I just sorted it myself

[Hilton]

I could write a book about the banks bunch of schysters the lot of them,,

In the end I got through with out any help,I had to.

I remember a conversation I had with a 'business manager' at the HSBC , he was trying to tell me that I should be running my account and business more professionally, having read Dale Carnage I didn't get irate but just felt strangely calm I sat there and listened to his lecture and when he finished and said anything you want ask me, I simply said is HSBC still laundering Mexican drug cartel money (for which they had just been fined millions in the U.S)
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/11/hsbc-bank-us-money-laundering
He fumbled about with papers looking down at the floor not knowing how to answer, I carried on and said, do you think this is an ethical way to run your business and your accounts.I also  said to him do not ever lecture me again on how I conduct and manage my business, they never did and two weeks later I was offered an uplift on my overdraft and extended terms.

What is mad is recently the bank came to me and asked If I wanted to borrow any money, I said where were you when I needed a loan a few years ago, ah he said, you don't need us now though

[Jonathan Evans]

I Will share this with you as I think some might think I had an ulterior motive for setting the poll up but you couldn't be further from the truth....
First off...' what ever stage you are at in your business right now I have been there.'........sleepless nights, dreaded phone calls from the bank,, tax due, etc When on a Tuesday you are told you have to come up with £10k by Friday to stay in business, I have been there and turned it around..................with persistence  and the help of  old Winston who was always with me when he said ......" If you are going through hell,you may as well keep going" so true .

The benefits when you break through of course are wonderfull all the problems disappear suddenly HSBC is your best friend offering you loans you no longer need , offers of investment flood in, want a new van no problem take your pick, you pay your tax and joy of joys you actually have money over.

After what felt like walking through treacle with zero support from anyone ( HSBC were nightmare)  you are suddenly running through a meadow free as a bird to do what you want, plus you actually have something of greater value than money.............freedom.

HSBC actually contacted me to see if I would take part in an advertising campaign locally, my reply was short and to the point ,ending in off........why I am still with them ? because every other bank is exactly the same.

So what happened,.......
It was when I  decided to take control  back become master of my own destiny, I confronted the creditors instead of hiding from them (and there were many) and told them how I was going to turn things around they were either on board or they could  take a running jump for their money,not a business plan ,in my opinion they are and have proved to be worthless by the way the banks don't really want one although they will tell you they do and that's from the horses mouth ...so to speak.

I was shocked that they ALL agreed.

To much to go into but suffice to say I came up with my OWN plan of action ignoring all else and ploughed on  with it, everything began to change and pretty quickly to.... Now I get asked to talk to other business's , others ask if they call in for a chat, I can take days off (and do) and not worry about it as staff can run it easily without me being there, in fact 'they ' tell me to stay away.I love it when I used to hate it.

So looking at the poll I can feel what 'some' of you are going through waking up in the middle of the night sweaty , mind going hay wire, dreading the day ahead wondering will it ever change,......it will.

If I can quote Winston again......".Never ever give up" persistence is the key , I am sure other business's that have been through similar will concur.

I am an avid reader always learning always recommending books ,when people ask me  I always start them off with, a very old one ,'How to win Friends and Influence People.' By Dale Carnegie really is a game changer, another is The Chimp Paradox by Dr Peters  and another I will chuck in that I read recently is The E Myth by Michael Gerber  that one will make seriously think about what you are doing in business.

Get these books read them study them, if you are not a reader then start Straight away,like tomorrow,it will become your best friend.

Good luck to those that need it.

Thank you for sharing, I agree totally about the banks. I went to mine wanting a business loan to cover a leaflet campaign.
I worked out costs and 3 levels of response from 2 jobs per 1000 also avg job ticket etc.

Not interested but said they could lend me a small amount at 27%apr Which was more than my credit card.

I still have a long way to go, hope I get there before I retire......... hang on I won't be able to retire.

[derek west]

Banks were always offering me loans when i had a full time job, as soon as i quit my job to go self employed and finally needed a loan, they didnt want to know,    probably why they rhyme with bankers.