yellow pages

« **on:** February 23, 2006, 04:39:41 pm »

my local books just come out and i got my copy today

iv gone in for the first time with a double 3/8 ad (about quarter page) full colour £2400
problem is in the last book there where 37 ads
thats now jumped up to 46 an extra 9 thats without the free entries

i would be interested to here from any of you who have any idea how many enquiries i can expect of a ad like this

Daniel

« **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:49:54 pm »

good luck mate, I wouldnt touch the yellow pages with a barge pole but thats just me, it will be interesting to hear how the adds do do though. Best, Dave.

« **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:55:20 pm »

Red Carpet,

What position in the section are you? You will always get customers who go for the first one, some who go for the smallest or one liners because they perceive these as the cheaest or vice versa with the larger firms, who they think will do a more professional job.

An interesting fact about any publication whether it is a newspaper or a directory, is that peoples eyes are always drawn to the righthand page and very seldom look at the left hand pages. I learned this from advertising e-mails that used to be sent to me free of charge.

There were some interesting points from this guy, but his intentions were for me to attend one of his seminars, which i didn't. If you need other help with advertising, go on to the yell web page, and there is a section on there called directors briefngs which you can download and print out. The topics covered are things like your advertising strategies, telephone systems, etc etc. They are well worth a look at.

From my personal experience with yellow pages, was that we doubled our money on our expense. From my point of view, i still use and swear by leaflets. You cannot beat having your own personal advert in their hands without the opposition, and the one thing you never put on your leaflet is the fact that you are in yellow pages, because once you are in there, you are showing the customer your opposition. I

If you are a business who are earnin lots and lots of money, then to avoid paying more tax, i would recommend expensive advertising in all the directories, but try it and see what happens. I know because i have done it.

Dave Spot On

« **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:57:31 pm »

ive never ever had good responce from yellow pages tompson allways been better but even that just covers the cost most times i hav tryed big ads small adds medium ads allways the same responce in fact i hav had more off a freebie line ad one year

£2600 och !!! hope u do do ok mind
gary

« **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:09:48 pm »

I know its nothing to do with the subject but........most adds in a book or anywhere do better on the right side because on the whole we live in a right handed world. Meaning you can see what you are looking at on the right side and then with pen to paper write next to it on your blank peace....it does make sense, sort of.... anyway, again good luck with your add!!!!!!!!!

« **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:12:21 pm »

im on 4th page in out of 8 pages of ads top corner left hand side
begining to think i may have made a mistake now, theres so much competition in here im sure leaflets would have been the better option.

oh well at least my services are being advertised on a daily basis now so there's a chance of getting calls even on days when i cant do leaflets like today (snowing and raining all day)

Dave, if i double my costs at least i wont of lost anything, but that means working for half price for a year (ouch)
just hope they turn into regulars

« **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:04:23 pm »

you will get some work out of yellow pages & cover your cost's but will find much better addvertising stream's for your money !
i have not started up cc yet but i have the gear just waiting for my leaflets to be printed as have just had some training with alltec this week
i have adverts in yell for furniture removal & light haulage work & regard them as No 1 parasite to my business along with thompson's then of course the tax man in at No 2 !
would expect your enquires to be fishing for prices as already looking for this kind of work ! would have thought cc is more of inpulse then anything else & when people want it done they want it done yesterday !

« **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:41:22 pm »

leaflets are norm impulse bookings were yellow pages is more of a planed booking ie decorating a room etc

« **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:50:09 pm »

Red,

Try putting the words marketing and sales into google, and this guy i mentioned earlier who is a marketing guru, will e-mail you on a regular basis with avertising info for free.

Did the scrubber go after?

Dave

« **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:54:15 pm »

I advertised with yp & thomsons for about 5 years, and then dropped them as prices were so high and i didn't notice any drop in my bookings, what does that tell you

Leaflets are the way to go! - Plus you can change your offers any time you like

steve

« **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:57:08 pm »

Dave,are the marketing emails from Cardells?

« **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:03:39 pm »

Andy

Yes i think it was David Cardell. I stopped receiving them because i changed my e-mail and couldn't retrieve them.

I think they were basically useful, but got the impression that he wanted you on one of his seminars. I didn,t.

Am i right in thinking that to get a free one line listing in yp and thompson, you have to have a business No. We have a business No and do get free listing, as we till do on yell.com, but without enhancement.

Has anyone tried the directors briefings on yell website, as well as business eye. I am not sure if business eye is in Wales only or not.

Dave

« **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:07:11 pm »

Hi

I have gone into YP for the first time this year.

To date 3 jobs done out of about 8 enquiries, £10 ahead of what is has cost (£68 p/m)

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:16:08 pm »

Martin

For the benefit of the newbie, can you please tell us how long you have traded for, and when you made the decision to go in yp.

With me i went in in year 1, but this was a special offer for £99 and i was put in cleaning and maintenance. The following year, it cost £1000 for i thought the revenue generated was poor. If you read the training manual from Extracta the guy in there says he made about £12000 from the book!!!

I dropped them after this. The problem with yp is that there are many sections and areas have been split.

Carpet and upholstery, cleaning/maintenance and ast one time Cardiff and Newport were in the same book, but was split. This is done for obvious reasons, more revenue.

A tip for people. My brother in law ran a fishing shop, went in 1 year, then rep came 2nd year, said he could not afford it. Got it half price.

Dave

« **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:31:56 pm »

Liahona

what is your main route of advertising?

word of mouth is great and so is referal and repeats but I'm talking about an advertising medium.

Shaun

« **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:34:37 pm »

I have tried the large adds, i have tried the colour adds ive spent thosands but always found that a small add in a good position that is direct and to the point will win every time.

John

« **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:36:27 pm »

Martin,
i hope you dont mind me asking, how longs your book been out for now?
and how much competition is there in your one?

Dave,
the scrubbas still there

dont know why no ones grabbed it yet
im sure you will never get a deal out of the y/p iv read back through all the old posts on here and from what i see no one on here has yet, somone posted on here the other day that there not allowed because there regulated by somone or somthing
iv heard a few people say about getting that sort of money £12000 back on a y/p ad, theres a guy on hear ableclean reckons he gets about that.

also just noticed Martin,
you say you have done 3 jobs for £78
i hope they wernt large jobs else your definatly underpricing yourself
my minimum charge is £35 so for 3 very small jobs i would charge £105
and from what i gather my prices are very modest

Daniel

« **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:38:13 pm »

John
thats the trouble with y/p you have no control over position

« **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:45:21 pm »

Red

YP are now stopping 1st and such going in from of adverts. This helps a bit. Yes that was true with brother in law with his rep, 2 years back.

My point was that if you are getting bigger and want to maintain your position, then you can afford big adverts and avoid paying more tax.

Dave

« **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:52:05 pm »

wish i was getting bigger im struggling at the minute mate
i dont think they will stop all the 1st and .... buisness myself, they just tell you what you wanna hear

if you have a moan about it they say dont worry its stopping next year
personally iv gone in as ..The Red Carpet and it was the rep who advised me to do that

« **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:56:23 pm »

Yes Red

Stick with your name. People remember it. I thought about changing but decided against it. How long you been trading?

Dave.

« **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:06:28 pm »

In the real world the more you pay the more privelidged position you should get, like at the opera if you want gallery seats you have to pay a premium.

Watch out in the next YP books as you can advertise how cheap you are by putting prices in!!

Carpet cleaning £1.25 a house

Shaun

« **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:06:49 pm »

done my first job 14th sep so just over 5 months
funny enough done my books last night and im £5000 behind
so a word of warning to newcomers make sure you have a couple quid in the bank as the first couple months are tough (very tough)
but thankfully the last 2 months iv turned a profit so things are looking up

and by the end of my first year i will be turning over a decent wage

« **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:09:32 pm »

Shaun
i have to agree
dont thompsons work like this?

« **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:13:44 pm »

Quote

done my first job 14th sep so just over 5 months
funny enough done my books last night and im £5000 behind
so a word of warning to newcomers make sure you have a couple quid in the bank as the first couple months are tough (very tough)
but thankfully the last 2 months iv turned a profit so things are looking up
and by the end of my first year i will be turning over a decent wage

Hi Dan you sound a bit like the same as me

James

« **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:14:08 pm »

Tompson's do but try not to advertise in it if you want to save some money.

I think I'll give YP another year and then it's going, my database keeps me going well and the odd advert in a local rag will probably keep me in the forefront of local peoples minds.

If you are focussed you can pick work up as you walk and talk.

Shaun

PS I don't mean like Don Atkinson neither, ah good old Don where is he ?

« **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:20:39 pm »

shaun
my plan is to do anything and everything that at least pays for itself and turns a small profit for the first year or so and then slowly cut it down.

within a few years i hope to just live of regulary marketing my database of existing customers
and only really market if i want to employ staff or expand
i think after 3 years i will be able to look after myself just from repeats and referalls

james
im nothing like you mate
you have a big van a big t/m and earn fortunes
im just a humble cc scraping a living

« **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:30:39 pm »

Hi Dan why do you think im running a bit behind

Well good luck mate I know how hard it is

James

« **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:38:33 pm »

Red why don't you hand deliver leaflets door to door?

You will meet and greet customers you will get a greater response as you can designate to where they go to and they will be solus as this will give you the best response.

Also it'll cost you next to nowt, print leaflets from your computer a hunred at a time, as you talk to your customers you then get an idea of what they are looking for (be prepared to listen NOT you telling the story) then adapt the leaflet and let it evolve so you get even greater response so you get more work and less leaflet delivery.

Shaun

« **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:43:55 pm »

you to James
i think you and me both have come to the point where we have no choice but to sucseed in this venture
plenty come and go in this buisness
but i do personally think me and you are hear to stay
if your gonna go its gonna be in the first couple months and from what i gather most do
youve either got it or you aint
once you get over the first couple months it can only get better
after that you come to a point were you have invested so much time effort and money into it you have no choice but to carry on
i am now turning a small profit and the repeats and the referralls are starting to creep through so i know im in for the long haul
hope your in the same position
heres to many years of cc'ing and collecting that money

dan

« **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:50:43 pm »

Shaun
to date about 50,000 done myself solus
1000 yesterday
plus about 15-20 thousand through distribution firms, though in my opinion most have ended up in a lake or on a skip
all my work to date has been leaflets

prob is
when your working you cant deliver
and everytime i get someone else to deliver my response rate drops bigtime
without a doubt this is the best form of advertising but i need to get about 5000 out a week and it just dont seem possible
thats were the y/p comes in

« **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:59:03 pm »

Shaun

Regarding putting prices in YP. can't you do that now. In ours which came out last July there isn't anyone in the cleaners section but in the drain cleaning theres a couple advertising drain cleaning for £25.

« **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:04:36 pm »

hi there all

i do the yp every year makes a small profit every year

just wondering do any of you get discount from them
i keep asking them but keep getting told that they are not allowed to
any tips on getting discount would be great.

davy

« **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:06:08 pm »

John, no one does in mine (prices)
but saying that the first offer in at least 3 years has come out in this issue (get one carpet cleaned and the second half price)
rubbish ad though thankfully
if i had of known you could print offers i would have taken a big pro looking half page ad and out pulled everyone
thers no beating a pro ad with offers its the best of both worlds

« **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:14:07 pm »

Red

Try this mate. Post leaflets for 2 days, say Mon,Tues. Work Wed,Thus,Frithen Mon,Tues of next week.

Post Wed,Thu, Work Fri,Mon,Tue,Wed,Thu and so on. This way you are posting for 2 days in seven. It works for me.

If you posted the same two days every week, you couldn't satisfy the customer who is off on certain week days only. In other words if a custy wants work done on a wed and its your posting day, tell her wed of the following week. She will probably think you are busy and this is what you sometimes want.

If you work weekends as well, change this system. In 2 days on the right housing estate, you could get 2000 leaflets out, x 2 people. This what my wife and i do.

It took me three years with an Extracta Excel, to buy a new truck mout and fairrly new van, and if you really want it go and get it son.

When i was made redundant in 2002 after 12 years, i was lucky having 5 kids with the working tax. Other people are lucky cos their wives work. The less i earn, the more working tax, hence a truck mount.

Stick at it

Dave

« **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:27:40 pm »

Dave, trouble is
to be content i want £1000 a week on a 5 day week, £200 a day wich i do get when im working
trouble is its taking 5000 leaflets to achive that
and theres no way i can do a 5 day week and 5000 leaflets
i will get there its just finding reliable leaflet distrubutors (hardest part of this buisness) imo
so i just do the leaflets when i can, i find it best not to mess customers about if they want it done on a particualer day theres usually a reason ie. day of work, so i just work with them and leaflet in my spare time
plus i would rather do half a day on the tools and half a day doing leaflets, as a whole day doing leaflets kills me its the worst job in the world.
saying that a whole day cleaning kills me
i guess im just lazy

i have a team of semi retired gentlemen doing my leaflets for me, with 3 or 4 others
cheap but slow, not as good response as solo but worth the money £12.50-£20.00 a thousand depending on area

« **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:39:09 pm »

Red

We found that if we didn't religiously leaflet, our worked dipped, so why do a job for say £30 when you could be leafleting. In other words forgo the money.

The biggest problem for me was old customers. In 3 and a half years, iv'e had about 900 customers, and they come back expecting the price to be relatively the same. I walk away now whereas in the past i wanted the money so i took the money.

The less you charge, the more customers you need. I thought you lived in a nice exclusive area. Many people may think i am paranoid sometimes on this forum about the observers, and i would ask you this question.

Do you know who your opposition are, do you collect leaflets from other ccs from customers like i did, do you know their equipment and what their costs are?
This information is very important. You need to know your strengths and weaknesses before you can put a strategy together.

Dave

« **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:55:21 pm »

i live in prob one of the best ares you could find
but i market my services as top quality services that are value for money i dont feel comftable charging the earth, as i know at my prices i can earn £200-£300 a day with a portable
and still come in cheaper than a lot of competitors, which to be honest im happy with
if and when i get to a stage that i have enough work to satisfy myself
i will think about upgrading my equipment and or taking on staff

i would say i come in the mid range price bracket in my area, theres allways gonna be the franchises and the fasttrackers charging the earth and theres allways gonna be the splash and dash £10 a room, i cater for everyone in between wich in my opinion is the biggest market.
and probably the market wich generates the most repeats and referalls

« **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2006, 12:00:58 am »

Do you have a good leaflet?

« **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2006, 12:13:29 am »

i would like to think so
very good quality but i suppose its what you print that matters
have never put the same design out twice, i allways monitor response and try to make changes and improve
they have got better everytime bar one (funny enough the one with a picture of me on it)

i think the latest one is the best yet only put out 1000 so far yesterday
booked in one job £68 lounge and stairs, and beat this i posted a leaflet through a house were my pal happened to be working decorating (he lives about 5 miles away) and he had just spilled half a tin of emulsion in his car so i ended up sucking that up for half hour for nothing

« **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2006, 06:03:05 am »

very strange yellow pages and thompsons as one year you may do well and the next nothing. just to mention though that these people want your business so its good to proctastinate especially thompsons last year i was given 3 adds for the price of 1 and this year i kept saying my budget was tight etc and they gave me 4 adverts for the same price. also you may bear in mind that some people check the flyers agains thompsons and y/p to see if you are in there not all people do this but some. personally i think its worth doing them as the money spent is a tax right off.

« **Reply #41 on:** February 24, 2006, 06:56:32 am »

Red-James

Last year was my first year trading and started in Jan. Jan last year I did £500 and Feb £600. This year it has gone up Jan £2500 and Feb hopefully will close around £3000.

I know some guys on here will say this is rubish but it seems to be only getting better for me and hopefully it will for you as well.

Sometimes I am lazy and dont put the effort in to get the business in and just wait for the phone to ring. This is the biggest problem for me and I am just trying to motivate myself more to work hard all the time on this.

I think Yellow Pages is a must because it gets your name out there, if only for the reason the Customers think you are a more reputable company if you are in their. Had lots of them say I checked YP to see if you were in their after receiving my leaflet.

Not so happy with Thomson though and may not renew in June because of the Biggest at the front system they use. How can you grow if the biggest are always at the front! Seems crazy to me that Thomson operate in this way, they must have lots of custys that just go in for one year and then leave.

Running my own business has been the most worrying thing I have ever none but it has also been the best.

Regards

Neil

« **Reply #42 on:** February 24, 2006, 08:33:01 am »

I agree with you, you need to keep motivated all the time. I see from your website that you use Extracta equipment, and i was wondering if you went on their course and bought their guide. It was a bit pricey, but some of the things they said in it makes sense, such as the 2000 - 3000 a week in leaflet numbers required to get x amount of work in return.

What we found was if we put say 500 a week out, eventually in say 4 weeks or so we would get a bumper week, then normal, so i think their right. Yp is good as a tax write off, and does'nt do you any harm even if you make your money back.

The biggest problem is keeping customers as there is not a lot of loyalty with customers. They loose your No, then the next cleaner who posts a leaflet gets the job. To be fair, this was one of the reasons that i went over to a tm, because there is a lot of competition, but not many of these. I now am more confident with the bigger commercial jobs and the customers like to see it.

Best wishes

Dave Spot On

« **Reply #43 on:** February 24, 2006, 08:37:44 am »

One other thing Neil, if the fact that your customers wanted to see if you were in there, a dedicated business number gets you a free one line listing.

I am not in there this year, but will go in next year, just to see, but from Jan of this year i am looking at statistics in more detail as to where the most work comes from.

Dave

« **Reply #44 on:** February 24, 2006, 06:58:12 pm »

Hi

Sorry guys wasn't clear enough.

I have been trading for just over 2 years but my work has been mainly LA's, so didn't really need YP.

Decided late last year to do more domestic so thought I would give YP a try out.

In the beginning the rep wanted me to spend £4000. My reply to that was that I would need to clean 4 grands worth of carpet just to pay them, before anything for myself.

So I went for a £680 ad at £15 P/w instead of £100 p/w for the £4000 ad.

I have had about 8 enquiries of which 3 have resulted in actual jobs.

The cost works out to about £68.15 p/m and started in jan, so 2 payments have been made. my 3 jobs have earnt me about £150, so I am looking at 10 whole pounds profit.

Wow! mega bucks!!

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #45 on:** February 24, 2006, 10:34:26 pm »

And you worked for Free.

« **Reply #46 on:** March 01, 2006, 11:02:45 am »

Yellow Pages £2600....... yes, OUCH!

My local radio station will do 6 months advertising (with 40 half minute ads a week) for less than that.

In YP you are one ad amongst loads. On the radio, you are the focus of attention when your ad is playing (unless the client is driving............)

Get a catchy advert with good sound effects, you will be amazed. My wife moved her advertising to local radio from the local paper 3 years ago...... result, same advertising spend, three to four times as many customers.

But do it now, before your competitors catch on!

« **Reply #47 on:** March 06, 2006, 01:53:40 am »

Andrew,

What business is your wife promoting on Radio.

Bugular Alarms, Car Valet or Caravans.

Supprised you have time to go Boating.

How do you control the quality in your Valeting I believe you employ staff .

How do you stop them setting up in competion

« **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:20:17 am »

Hi Ian.

My wife's business is none of the above, it's a a Children's Day Nursery.

Good staff + good wages + good supervisors (senior staff) = good quality and time to go boating.

That's the theory, anyway. Usually it works, but the caravan park has been established 39 years and the day nursery established 12 or more, and there wasn't always time to spend on "Mid Life Crisis IV" (the boat)

I gave up the burglar alarm business a few years ago to concentrate on running the caravan park, now that is running smoothly I got a bit bored.

Next on the agenda is Oven cleaning and then Carpet cleaning. Then again, a nice summer could see me on the boat so much that I can't start these till autumn!

If the car valeting staff want to set up in competition that's up to them...... give up a secure wage, paid holidays, buy their own van and kit, get an accountant, pay their own tax.........

If they are that keen, I'll sell them the van and kit!