[john martin]

Why not save yourself loads of time, hassle and money! you have two choices :

1 Truckmount

2 Portable

Lets look at the cheapest new truckmount...

The Prowler is one to consider and this is gonna cost you £6500 + VAT for a machine with 50' hoses, water tank and wand.

Or

The Jag £2600 + VAT... if you said £3000 + VAT im sure for that you would get 100' of hoses. 4 jet wand and possibly some other bits and pieces.
The Zeta £1000 + VAT

£4000 + VAT

Why over complicate things? there comes a point when you have to make a decision between the two options above, hand on heart if i had the work to justify the expense of a TM i would buy one.


Its all about getting the biggest "bang for your buck" and you need to get a return on your equipment sooner rather than later.

I can remove my jag from the van if its a job on the 10th floor, you try doing that with a TM!, for me its about flexibility and versatility.

When it comes to portable machines they have their limitations for instance a three vac model needs 2 electrical circuits and a third if you run an inline heater... pain in the ass!!
 
Colin and I both have the same set ups and we can both agree that for the type of work we do, the jag + Zeta is great.

John, PM me and i will send you links to vids of my setup

The only thing im gone to agree with you about is the Prowler ...  if
any one can afford it , just get the prowler !
You would still need a small porty for apts , hard to reach places .

There is no way i would ever part with money for a Jag  , the standard
of engineering is below par for me .

Im also not a fan of the BS from CA in general ...   for eg ... the
fact that the waste tank couldn't be engineered to empty fully via the
waste gate ,so its describe by CA on one of the American forums as
thus ( the waste remains in the bottom of the tank and acts as a
purifier when you bring it indoors to improve air quality ) .  give me
a break , i would be ran out the door so fast from the hotels i do if
i brought that thing indoors and switched it on with its rancid '
purifier '  .( I have used a scorpion so i know what im talking about
)  And i dont like the way they deceived many buyers by posting the
performance figures in a misleading way leading them to believe the
jag had double the lift of other machines or even their own scorpion .


Also look at the numbers  , for the 3000 you'd spend on the   'Jag'
you could have the following
Floodhog in van -  1300
portable pump  -    300
inline heater     -    400
water tank       -     100


The 900  left over i could either buy the airhog booster featuring
another ' lighthouse'  motor , by now i have a three vac high
performance system ( 144" lift  370 cfm ) and i have heat !  or i
would put the left over money towards a small portable you could
actually bring upstairs easily for apartments etc   life the alltec
express . bet you wouldn't be so keen to haul the jag up 10 flights if
the lift was out .
Apart from that  ... im gonna disagree with you that you always need
two circuits for three vacs ..

Have seen you excellent vids btw .

[Colin Day]

You are of course entitled to your opinion about the Jag, even though you've probably never used one. You mentioned you'd used the Scorpion which is unquestionably the best selling triple vac and the most difficult machine to find for sale, second hand. It is a different machine altogether, yet still a serious contender to the Jag.

You'll find that those who swear by them are well known, successful and well respected carpet cleaners, surely that tells you something...

You on the other hand, are an absolute mystery. You even lurk as a guest on other forums which is pretty unusual for a carpet cleaner, even your web link doesn't work...

For all we know, you could be a supplier yourself who is scared of the competition, you have every right to be... OR...you could even be playing devil's advocate...

[Russ Chadd]

Interesting reply John...

You started a thread to see if you could beat your target of an Airflex storm and a magma heater...  priced at £3400

One fundamental flaw in your choice of water recovery machine is that is only extracts and offers no solution tank, solution pump and no extraction tank... £1282.35 + VAT for something that sucks water in one end and throws it out the other!

You would be relying on your boxjet to supply the water pressure? better hope your customer has an outside tap because if you have ever tried a tap adaptor on a domestic bathroom tap.. 9/10 times they leak flooding the whole area especially if you are running a pressure washer.
Also forget feeding it hot water from a tap... it will drain your customers hot water tank quicker than you would imagine and your customers is not going to be pleased!

And the lavor hot box... yes these work just fine but £1150 is expensive and just look at the size of the foot print!

The whole purpose of machines like the storm and the jag is that they offer the end user enhanced power and higher efficiency compared to most other triple vac portables, allowing the operator to leave them on the vehicle much the same way as a TM.

I admire people who have the ability to think outside the box, however you cant expect a portable to behave like a TM because they are two very different machines.


I think you should just buy the Airflex storm and magma heater as this was your target and by the sounds of things you are not a fan of the Jag... saying that you could give your idea a blast and it may work out well for you.

[john martin]

Interesting reply John...

You started a thread to see if you could beat your target of an Airflex storm and a magma heater...  priced at £3400

One fundamental flaw in your choice of water recovery machine is that is only extracts and offers no solution tank, solution pump and no extraction tank... £1282.35 + VAT for something that sucks water in one end and throws it out the other! 

When you use the jag in Van mount mode ... it sucks in one way and throws it out the other also ...   But the jag costs 3000 and doesn't through out as fast ... the hog can handle flood work also 
 

You would be relying on your boxjet to supply the water pressure? better hope your customer has an outside tap because if you have ever tried a tap adaptor on a domestic bathroom tap.. 9/10 times they leak flooding the whole area especially if you are running a pressure washer.
Also forget feeding it hot water from a tap... it will drain your customers hot water tank quicker than you would imagine and your customers is not going to be pleased!

Boxjet would be mainly part of the Van mount system , fed from the onboard tank .
For indoor work i have a backup machine with the money i saved on the Jag 
But if need be you could bring the Hog and Boxjet into say a rental and use them fed from the tap like a CFX . Im aware of the tap issue and the many varieties of tap out there so i wouldn't rely on it working , but it may work out in some places .

And the lavor hot box... yes these work just fine but £1150 is expensive and just look at the size of the foot print!

Includes VAT so its the same price as the zeta ?  and you can use it with a variety of machines . I do like the zeta though ... zeta + floodhog + airhog  would have real performance for the price of a storm .
 

The whole purpose of machines like the storm and the jag is that they offer the end user enhanced power and higher efficiency compared to most other triple vac portables, allowing the operator to leave them on the vehicle much the same way as a TM.

I admire people who have the ability to think outside the box, however you cant expect a portable to behave like a TM because they are two very different machines.

Contradicting yourself up there a bit ,  there are advantages to van mount even if you don't have TM performance .  Anyone whos used a Bane will usually tell you how convient its use is , even though it would hardly have the power of a High performance twin or triple vac .  On most jobs 50 -70 ft from van works for me .

I think you should just buy the Airflex storm and magma heater as this was your target and by the sounds of things you are not a fan of the Jag... saying that you could give your idea a blast and it may work out well for you.

This is all hypothetical ,  i am not buying either machine 
Anything new i get will made by myself and chances are it will have more than three vacs    Both the Jag and storm are too expensive for what you get imho ...
i would prefer to have a dedicated performance van mount  and a separate  smaller ' go anywhere ' twinvac backup .   Neither machine tic both boxes for me .

[Russ Chadd]

Well good luck John and happy carpet cleaning my friend 

[Colin Day]

This is all hypothetical ,  i am not buying either machine  
Anything new i get will made by myself and chances are it will have more than three vacs    


It's already been done before, seems it never took off....

[john martin]

This is all hypothetical ,  i am not buying either machine  
Anything new i get will made by myself and chances are it will have more than three vacs    


It's already been done before, seems it never took off....

There are a variety of reasons why its not successful commercially ...
I believe alltec had one back in the day , and still some semi custom examples available in the states ... eg

http://morecfm.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=291

Squeezing four vacs into a production portable is not something id fancy , more so a van mount recovery unit which when space/weight is not a limiting factor , is really childsplay to build .

Im not saying four vacs are even necessary , id be happy with three 6.6( or lighthouse 5.7)  in parallel or ideally three/four 8.4 which have about 150" lift  160 cfm and actually draw a couple of amps less than the 6.6  ...  pity they cost 300usd each !
So its tempting to just use four of these genuine £55 ameteks  ... cheap , easily replaced  .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ametek-Premium-3-Stage-Tangential-Discharge-Motor-5-7-240V-1500W-/180765040975?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaner_Bags_Parts&hash=item2a166fa14f

Four in series/parallel  gives you 200" lift  and 200cfm
Four in parallel  gives 130 "lift  and 400 cfm
all for less than the cost of one 8.4 or two 6.6
Recovery unit would be configurable to run either 2 , 3 , or 4 vacs in parallel  or 2 in series 4 in series / parellel   .... could never 'break down ' if a vac goes . 

[Colin Day]

£55 for a new Ametek

Are alarm bells not ringing

I'd make sure you have plenty of spares

Seriously though, I think you are over-complicating things.

If it's power you want, more than that a Jag can offer, then you'd be wiser buying an entry level TM.....

[john martin]

£55 for a new Ametek

Are alarm bells not ringing

I'd make sure you have plenty of spares

Seriously though, I think you are over-complicating things.

If it's power you want, more than that a Jag can offer, then you'd be wiser buying an entry level TM.....

£55 is good money if its production costs are low ...
Even your 6.6 is made in Mexico for a few peso ... and dont pay a premium for a lamb ametek , they are one and the same company .

I think modularity will be big in the future , interchangeable vac units , tank bodies ,water and heat units . You can see Mytee moving in that direction already . 
 
Why settle for less , the likes of the jag is optimized for the 120 volt environment ,
If they or other american companies , including Mytee were based in a 230v zone ,i have no doubt the machines would be very different .
Innovation seems to be lost though on the indigenous brands , alltec at least uses max amps per cord , but nothing too exciting from it , and extracta proudly state on their site that they forge some components from molten metal , yet they cant seem to forge a new idea in 20 years 

[Anthony Hull]

When it comes to portable machines they have their limitations for instance a three vac model needs 2 electrical circuits and a third if you run an inline heater... pain in the ass!!

It's strange I read this alot, but I have plugged in my Airflex Turbo into a double socket (hallway or lounge) and inline heater into lounge and do this on nearly every job (that could do with the heat) with no problems. The only problem I had was when using an extension cable from a wall (1 meter) and plugging into that instead of the wall. That ended up blowing the fuse in the extension.

[Colin Day]

£55 for a new Ametek

Are alarm bells not ringing

I'd make sure you have plenty of spares

Seriously though, I think you are over-complicating things.

If it's power you want, more than that a Jag can offer, then you'd be wiser buying an entry level TM.....

£55 is good money if its production costs are low ...
Even your 6.6 is made in Mexico for a few peso ... and dont pay a premium for a lamb ametek , they are one and the same company .

I think modularity will be big in the future , interchangeable vac units , tank bodies ,water and heat units . You can see Mytee moving in that direction already . 
 
Why settle for less , the likes of the jag is optimized for the 120 volt environment ,
If they or other american companies , including Mytee were based in a 230v zone ,i have no doubt the machines would be very different .
Innovation seems to be lost though on the indigenous brands , alltec at least uses max amps per cord , but nothing too exciting from it , and extracta proudly state on their site that they forge some components from molten metal , yet they cant seem to forge a new idea in 20 years 

I fitted one of these £55 motors to a machine tonight for a friend... We'll see how it goes I suppose...

 

[john martin]

When it comes to portable machines they have their limitations for instance a three vac model needs 2 electrical circuits and a third if you run an inline heater... pain in the ass!!

It's strange I read this alot, but I have plugged in my Airflex Turbo into a double socket (hallway or lounge) and inline heater into lounge and do this on nearly every job (that could do with the heat) with no problems. The only problem I had was when using an extension cable from a wall (1 meter) and plugging into that instead of the wall. That ended up blowing the fuse in the extension.

yes ,  i never go circuit hunting either ..  the poor electrically disadvantaged Americans have to do it all the time ...   today , a typical job , suite ... i had a twinvac + 3000w heater  and three blowers plugged into the same room ... 
amp wise ... that would = a quadvac + inline heater 

I do avoid customers little white extension leads ... thin wire , pain if you have to replace fuse ...  extension leads , and machine leads should be 2.5mm ...  i check plugs occasionally for oxidation , frayed connections .

[john martin]

[/quote]
I fitted one of these £55 motors to a machine tonight for a friend... We'll see how it goes I suppose...

 
[/quote]

Hope there was no Chinese writing under the Ametek  sticker 
nah , i have a few here ... they look good .

[Anthony Hull]

extension leads , and machine leads should be 2.5mm ...  i check plugs occasionally for oxidation , frayed connections .

Good tip about the wire thickness John. Didn't know that