[*paul_moss]

Suite done yesterday, customer could not believe how dirty it was 

[Mark Roberts]

Not yet Paul but looking forward to trying it on next one. Would never have thought of using that for leather, any tips on use?

[davep]

What is this magic sponge please?

[Joe H]

Did a white suite 2 weeks ago with the Solutions UK micro pads - but it was nothing like as discoloured as that one in the photo.

[DK]

Its the same as the magic foam that you buy in woolys, Its amazing product for cleaning dirt from leather, its odourless and chemical free too.

DK

[spencer davies]

I bought some after seeing them used at the CCDO, very impressive.


Regards

S

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

Very good at cleaning other stuff aswell you know! Try them on soap scum in the bath or on the shower screen with just water!

[Darren O]

What are they how much and who sells them thanks.

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

solutions

world of clean

Cheers Goron

[Darren O]

Cheers Goron

[stevegunn]

You can get them at JML too

[*paul_moss]

That was one of 2 sofa's, one was 3 seater and that was the 2 seater. It took 45 mins to clean and put an application of protection cream on  
Because it was done so quick she got her lounge and hall carpet cleaned free. Im too soft.

[des]

These magic sponge,s are they called micro power pads or micro sponge as thats all i can find on W O C

[Roger Koh]

What is the product pH value used in conjunction with this sponge?

How does the leather surface feel after dry?

How does it feel when wet again with water?

Compare after cleaning with this sponge with original color on cushion underside?

How many times can we clean with this sponge on the same leather?

Is leather cleaning standard only just to pass the "eyeball test”?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[LTT Leathercare]

Some good questions raised by Roger

Andy has tried and tested these sponges on many differnt finishes.  Feel free to contact him if you want the results.

[*paul_moss]

Try them yourselves and make your own conclusions  . Its that simple.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Last month I cleaned some cushions for a customer which were very bad (from a home with mentally disabled children), the customer wanted them to look like new again so I told her that I could clean them and redye (pigmanted leather) and make them like new. After cleaning with a standard sponge they looked okay to good but then I started with the Solution sponge and the difference made was outstanding, only 1 cushion need dye repair as that had servere damage to the piping.

Shaun

[*paul_moss]

The results just speak for them selves 

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Paul you don't think that you have hit on something special that somebody else hadn't thought about?

Shaun

[Neil Williams]

My problem is that I have had so many bad results with the over hyped Solutions products that I now feel that I don't have any confidence in buying any of the brand.
So why should magic sponges be the answer to all our dreams?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

There are a few cleaners that have had bad experiences with Solution products but there are quite alot of people that are shouting from th eroof tops about this method.

Shaun

[Len Gribble]

Paul

Stunning results, thought you used the palm sander on it.

Des

Think the chemical company makes them then you add your brand name. Ask for a data sheet 

Len

[Darren O]

Is the sponge the Duotec microsponge £2.45 thats the only one i can see.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Micro Power Large Hand Pad

World of clean

Shaun

[carpet guy]

Not a fan of S*******S but I will definitely be using this product. My trial was using with F/C cleaner and the results were outstanding, as Paul predicted.

Remember, though, you're not finished after removing the dirt, make sure you know what else's necessary to protect the clean surface.

[*paul_moss]

Now every body knows my history with said company . I only speak on my findings with all products and companies and always speak up to help others on what works for me and what doesnt. That does not mean it suits any body else some like and get on with what I do others dont, thats the game were in.
I like some of the products Solution UK stock and dislike others, there are also lots of their products I have not tried, same with Prochem, Chemspec, Hydromaster,Craftex etc etc. I pick and choose the products that work best for my style of cleaning in terms of quality,speed, price etc.

These sponges where not designed for leather, they are a melemine base and designed to work with just water and no other chemical on things like stainless steel, tiles and similar hard surfaces. I just tried them one day as an experiment as my cleaning style is based more on the aggitation rather than the chemical doing the work.
I have used them for around 14 months and kept them quiet until the last few months because I feel they are a big winner .
They are quite an aggressive cleaner so you need to know your leather finishes and more importantly the condition of the finish.
They work best with soapy chemicals. At all times keep them wet and soapy, if they dry they become very aggressive and thats when damage can take place.
I now can clean 2 to 3 suites with half of a large sponge. In the early days I went through 2 or 3 sponges a suite so technique and practice like any thing else will increase skill.

 As for other people saying they are dangerous : : DING DING DING
                                                      IT IS A SPONGE
We as professionals use alot of dangerous equipment and chemicals that can instantly damage carpets and upholstery if used incorrectly, these are no different.
The only damage that can be done is that they can take off the top coat of dye off the leather if its weak or damaged, but then we should be aware of this with testing before we start to clean and then be able to rectify afterwards, as top coats and dyes are very easy to replace/ restore quickly.

ALL I CAN FINISH WITH IS TRY THEM FOR YOUR SELVES AND MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP, THATS WHAT I DO.

[John Kelly]

Paul have you ever tried a white Scotchpad. I know you can rub and rub a fabric with these without damaging the surface just wonder what they would be like on leather.

[carpet guy]

I've tried a multitude of sponges and fabrics and many are very good, but these little sponges are brilliant, I have something else I'm experimenting with and if it's successfull I will let you know.

[Roger Koh]

Google -  Melamine Sponge and I get this:

Subject: Magic Erasers, read if you have any contact with kids!

Ok, I'm sending this out to everyone so they don't make the same mistake I made. I'm so embarrassed that this happened but I want you all to be aware of what can happen. This was caused by a magic eraser sponge. I have let both kids erase their crayon marks off the walls and never even thought the sponges would have this kind of chemical in them that would cause this kind of burn or even hurt them. Learn from my mistake. You can't even imagine how bad I feel that this happened to Kolby. Pass this along to anyone who has kids or grandchildren.

Karlee


 
Photo: Origin unknown



 
Photo: © Kerflop.com (used by permission)


Kolby 24 hours after being burned by a magic Eraser sponge. It was much worse yesterday.


My sister found this article about another child that was burned by the same kind of sponge.

Chemical Burns to Children

If you are a parent or grandparent, this post is meant to save your loved ones from the horror one of our friends went through. Here is the email we received -

One of my five year old's favorite chores around the house is cleaning scuff marks off the walls, doors, and baseboards with either an Easy Eraser pad, or the real deal, a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. I purchased a package of Magic Erasers ages ago when they first came out. I remember reading the box, wondering what the "Magic" component was that cleaned crayon off my walls with ease. No ingredients were listed and absolutely no warnings were on the box, other than "Do not ingest."

My package of the Scotchbrite Easy Erasers didn't have a warning either and since my child knew not to eat the sponges and keep them out of reach of his little brother and sister, it was a chore I happily let him do.

If I had known that both brands (and others like them) contain a harmful alkaline or "base" chemical (opposite of acid on the pH scale) that can burn your skin, I never would have let my little boy handle them. As you can see from the picture, when the Scotchbrite Easy Eraser was rubbed against his face and chin, he received severe chemical burns.

At first, I thought he was being dramatic. I picked him up, put him on the counter top and washed his face with soap and water. He was screaming in pain. I put some lotion on his face - more agony. I had used a Magic Eraser to remove magic marker from my own knuckles a while back and I couldn't understand why he was suddenly in pain. Then, almost immediately, the large, shiny, blistering red marks started to spread across his cheeks and chin.

I quickly searched Google.com for "Magic Eraser Burn" and turned up several results. I was shocked. These completely innocent looking white foam sponges can burn you?

I called our pediatrician, and of course got sent to voice mail. I hung up and called the Hospital and spoke to an Emergency Room nurse. She told me to call Poison Control. The woman at Poison Control said she was surprised nobody had sued these companies yet and walked me through the process of neutralizing the alkaline to stop my son's face from continually burning more every second.

I had already, during my frantic phone calling, tried patting some numbing antibiotic cream on his cheeks, and later some Aloe Vera gel - both resulted in screams of pain. The Poison Control tech had me fill a bathtub with warm water, lay my son into it, cover him with a towel to keep him warm and then use a soft washcloth to rinse his face and chin with cool water for a continuous 20 minutes.

My son calmed down immediately. He told me how good it felt. I gave him a dose of Tylenol and after the twenty minutes was up, he got dressed in his Emergency Room doctor Halloween costume and off we went to the Hospital.

They needed to make sure the chemical burn had stopped burning, and examine his face to determine if the burn would need to be debrided (from my fuzzy recollection of hospital work, this means removing loose tissue from a burn location). My son was pretty happy at the hospital, they were very nice and called him "Doctor" and let him examine some of their equipment. The water had successfully stopped the burning and helped soothe a lot of the pain. I'm sure Tylenol was helping too.

They sent us home with more Aloe Vera gel, Polysporin antibiotic cream, and some other numbing burn creams. By the time we got home, my son was crying again. I tried applying some of the creams but he cried out in pain. Water seemed to be what worked the best.

After a rough night, I took the above photo in the morning. He was swollen and wouldn't move his lips very much to avoid moving the skin on his taut cheeks. I was fighting back the tears, and I said, "Oh honey, I wish I could take it away from you. I wish I could take it off your face and put it on mine." He was so shocked, he started to tear up a little and said, "Mom, no. You don't want this on your face, it hurts so much. You would be hurting. Last night was terrible, I couldn't sleep, and you wouldn't be able to sleep either." It just broke my heart into five trillion pieces - as much as he is hurting, he wouldn't want me to be hurting in his place.

Today he is doing much better. The burns have started to scab over, and in place of red, raw, angry, skin we have a deeper red, rough healing layer. I can touch his skin now, without it stinging, and this morning he went back to Pre-School with Polysporin rubbed all over his face. He announced to the class, "I brought my face for Show and Tell!"

--

Note - he was doing fine as of Friday. Kudos to this diligent parent for informing us all.

[*paul_moss]

Roger
This is caused by the chemical impregnated in the sponge.
The sponges we use are dry, no chemical in them.

Read what the lady said

" never even thought the sponges would have this kind of chemical in them"

[carpet guy]

Best I've found was ..........the ph is between 8 and 10 and there was an " urban myth " circulating, my guess and it is a guess, is that the skin burns were the result of kids misunderstanding the products and being burned through friction...............this however is a guess.............I found a web site with an explanation of the " myth " and will post the source later.

There seem to be many variations of the product, so it would be worth experimenting, to determine what's safe or otherwise.

rob

[*paul_moss]

I think the best thing here, is not to use them on cleaning children .

I may have mislead you by calling them magic sponges. That is not their name, I cant remember what they are called you will have to look on world of clean web site. I just called them that because they work magic on cleaning leather  .
I have spoken to Solution UK today and they tell me that they own the rights for this particular sponge and design ( its the design that also helps it clean better) and that as I said earlier it is a totally dry sponge with no chemicals at all in it. It was designed to be used with water only, it is just me that has changes things using it with leather cleaner for cleaning pigmented hyde.

[stevegunn]

I use the ones from jml magic eraser

Rub stubborn marks off surfaces as easily as you rub pencil marks off paper! No chemicals no detergents.

    * Cut the block into ideal shapes and sizes to tackle awkward nooks and crannies, polish taps, numptys, switches – and much more
    * Non-abrasive: the Magic Eraser can be used on all sorts of surfaces, including wood, paintwork, chrome and vinyl
    * Rinse, dry and re-use. Our huge block (32 x 13 x 4cm) goes a very long way
    * It can be cut to size and shape for those awkward places that need cleaning
    * Fantastic value and no detergents necessary: save money, time and elbow grease

[Roger Koh]

Paul,

May I have your permission to post our email correspondence regarding my findings of these Melamine sponges you send me before the April CCDO?

I have mentioned the antidotes for neutralizing when used in conjunction with another alkaline cleaning product.

This alkalinity in the sponge acts as a booster that raise the pH higher.

Since there will be others who may like to try these sponges, it’s my peace of mind when they know about these 2 antidotes to neutralize the high alkalinity after cleaning.

These antidotes can be spray onto our bare skin too for those adults that have sensitive skin after cleaning!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[Joe H]

Similar to the Solutions UK micro pad ........ I have been using "It Works" cleaning blocks bought off QVC shopping channel for a couple years now.
These are "Made in Germany", but apparantly sourced in Canada.

Used mainly for getting shoe scuffs of wood/laminate floors, door facing (down at the bottom where people kick). Only water needed and they contain no chemicals.

and they really do work.... just like the micro pad from Solutions UK

[carpet guy]

Further reading suggests there is no chemical in the sponges and my guess as to what happened appears to be correct..................there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

The only negative comment is...............the sponges or part of the sponges must not be ingested by humans or animals..........should be pretty obvious, but to be on the safe side, make sure you clear up any disintegrated parts or complete sponges.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I used to work with melamine formadehyde polymers, mainly used for their fire resistance and also water resistance compared with urea formaldehyde.
I have cut and pasted an informative article from Wikipedia.

'Melamine foam is a foam-like material consisting of a formaldehyde-melamine-sodium bisulfite copolymer. The foam, because of its microporous properties, may remove otherwise "uncleanable" external markings from relatively smooth surfaces. For example, it can remove crayon, magic marker, and grease from painted walls, wood finishings, and grime from hub caps.

The open cell foam is not only microporous, but its polymeric substance is also extremely hard, meaning that it works like sandpaper but on a smaller scale, getting into tiny grooves and pits in the subject being cleaned. On a larger scale, the material feels soft. Because the bubbles interconnect, its structure is more like a maze of fibreglass strands than like the array of separate bubbles in, for example, styrofoam.

The substance needs to be dampened to work properly. It does break down rather rapidly, so a given block of foam generally lasts only a single intensive scrubbing session, though it can be used repeatedly for much smaller marks.
Hi Guys

While the name-brand "Magic Eraser" is made by Mr. Clean (Procter & Gamble), the foam itself is manufactured in Germany by BASF under the name "Basotect" and was already a common product before this new use was discovered. Other companies have also begun marketing it for its cleaning properties, either under other names, like Coralite Ultimate Sponge, or as a generic product.

Melamine foam has been used for over 20 years as insulation for both pipes and ductwork. It also has a long history as a soundproofing material for projects like studios, sounds stages and auditoriums. The low smoke and flame properties of melamine foam are very beneficial toward safety concerns[citation needed].

The Magic Eraser earned the Electrical Audio Intern's Corner "Key Buy" award in 2003.'

I would be very surprised if alkaline detergents were added to the melamine foam , it is almost certainly it's natural alkalinity and degradation products which are causing the allergic reaction.

Cheers

Doug

[carpet guy]

Still reckon it from abrasion rather than an allergic reaction Doug, but I'm just going by what I see and am aware that had there been an allergic reaction there would have been immediate action by Proctor and Gamble.

As with any leather cleaning cleaning and Paul has already touched on this ....................use caution and consider how to best protect the cleaned leather.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Rob

You may well be right alhough some may have allergic reactions, particularly those with sensitive skin, such as children.

Cheers

Doug

[*paul_moss]

Roger, please feel free to post as much info on this as possible as you guys are usually well ahead of us on the techno front by a few years.

Doug I am very fair skined and have used these sponges for 14 months now with lots of different chemicals with no probs,Im with rob on this one and I think the lady may have rubbed to hard and taken some skin away and then what ever chemical has caused a rash.

[Len Gribble]

As I said earlier the chemical company


Safety data sheet
Page: 1/5
BASF Safety data sheet according to 91/155/EEC
Date / Revised: 18.07.2003 Version: 1.0
Product: Basotect
(30221255/SDS_GEN_EU/EN)
Date of print 19.07.2003
1. Substance/preparation and company identication
Basotect
Use: Open cell foam blocks for the production of sound and thermal insulation for the building and
motor industries.
2. Composition/inform ation on ingredients
Chemical nature
Condensate based on: melamine, formaldehyde
3. Hazard identication
No particular hazards known.
4. First-aid measures
General advice:
The rst aid measures are valid exclusively appl y to the contact with the developing dusts.
If inhaled:
Keep patient calm, remove to fresh air.
On skin contact:
Wash thoroughly with soap and water.
Page: 2/5
BASF Safety data sheet according to 91/155/EEC
Date / Revised: 18.07.2003 Version: 1.0
Product: Basotect
(30221255/SDS_GEN_EU/EN)
Date of print 19.07.2003
On contact with eyes:
Wash affected eyes for at least 15 minutes under running water with eyelids held open.
5. Fire-fighting measures
Suitable extinguishing media:
usual extinguishing media, water, dry powder, carbon dioxide
Specific hazards:
The substances/groups of substances mentioned can be released in case of fire.
Specific hazards:
carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen cyanide, fumes/smoke
Further information:
The degree of risk is governed by the burning substance and the fire conditions.
Dispose of fire debris and contaminated extinguishing water in accordance with official regulations.
6. Accidental release measures
Personal precautions:
No special precautions necessary.
Methods for cleaning up or taking up:
For small amounts: Pick up with suitable appliance and dispose of.
7. Handling and storage
Handling
Protect against moisture. Avoid dust formation.
Processing machines must be fitted with local exhaust ventilation.
Protection against fire and explosion:
No special precautions necessary.
Storage
Storage class according to VCI: (11) Combustible solids.
Storage stability:
May be kept indefinitely if stored properly.
Page: 3/5
BASF Safety data sheet according to 91/155/EEC
Date / Revised: 18.07.2003 Version: 1.0
Product: Basotect
(30221255/SDS_GEN_EU/EN)
Date of print 19.07.2003
8. Exposure controls and personal protection
Components with workplace control parameters
50-00-0: formaldehyde
Personal protective equipment
Respiratory protection:
Breathing protection if dusts are formed.
9. Physical and chemical properties
Form: blocks, sheets, foam material
Colour: white
various, depending on the colourant
Flammability: not readily ignited
Ignition temperature: > 580 °C
Density: approx. 10 g/l
(20 °C)
Solubility in water: insoluble
Other information:
The product can absorb up to 100 times its own weight of liquid.
10. Stability and reactivity
Conditions to avoid:
Avoid humidity.
Thermal decomposition: > 350 °C
11. Toxicological information
LD50/oral/rat: > 5,6 mg/kg
Primary skin irritation/rabbit: non-irritant
A sensitizing effect on particularly sensitive individuals cannot be excluded.
Page: 4/5
BASF Safety data sheet according to 91/155/EEC
Date / Revised: 18.07.2003 Version: 1.0
Product: Basotect
(30221255/SDS_GEN_EU/EN)
Date of print 19.07.2003
Additional information:
Based on our experience and the information available, no adverse health effects are expected if
handled as recommended with suitable precautions for designated uses.
12. Ecological information
Additional information
Add. remarks environm. fate & pathway:
Due to the consistency of the product, dispersion into the environment is impossible. Therefore no
negative effects on the environment may be anticipated based on the present state of knowledge.
13. Disposal considerations
Must be dumped or incinerated in accordance with local regulations.
Waste key:
070213 waste plastic
14. Transport information
Not classified as hazardous under transport regulations ( ADR RID ADNR IMDG/GGVSee
ICAO/IATA )
15. Regulatory information
Regulations of the European union (Labelling) / National legislation/Regulations
EEC Directives:
The product does not require a hazard warning label in accordance with EC Directives.
Other regulations
Water hazard class (Self classification): (0) Generally not water polluting.
Page: 5/5
BASF Safety data sheet according to 91/155/EEC
Date / Revised: 18.07.2003 Version: 1.0
Product: Basotect
(30221255/SDS_GEN_EU/EN)
Date of print 19.07.2003
16. Other information
Recommended use: for industrial use only
In addition to the information given in the safety data sheet we refer to the product specific 'Technical
Information'.
Vertical lines in the left hand margin indicate an amendment from the previous version.
The information contained herein is based on the present state of our knowledge and does not therefore
guarantee certain properties. Recipients of our product must take responsibility for observing existing
laws and regulations.



Len

[Roger Koh]

Paul,

Soak up the sponge with rinse3.0.
 
Or, Spray rinse3.0 as you clean with these Melamine Sponge.

The pH is just right for leather!

Eureka!!!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor System

[carpet guy]

Well researched and concluded Roger.

rob

[Roger Koh]

For you guys who think that there are no chemicals in these sponges, here is further reading from Smitty.

11-17-2006 @ 5:41PM
Smitty said...

I'd like to add a little clarification to all of this.

Almost all materials on earth have a measurable pH.

pH is the measure of an objects acidity/alkalinity or neutrality.

The sponge needn't contain any additional cleaning chemicals to have an overly alkalinity pH, the melamine foam itself has an 8-10 pH.

8 being more to the neutral side of the scale and 10 being more alkaline.

Even your tap water can be more acidic or alkaline than a typically "neutral" level.

As with acids (lower pH levels), products that have pH higher on the scale (alkaline) can cause severe burns.

These burns are no doubt intensified as the alkaline material can affect the flesh below the skin once the melamine abrades the outer layer of skin, and at a microscopic level is HIGHLY abrasive.

This incident is not isolated by any measure and should certainly be addressed by the companies marketing these sponges.

Ms. Kerflop, thank you sincerely for taking the time to post what happened to your son for the benefit of our children.

As a father of 3 my heart goes out to you and him and I hope all is well now.


Do you agree that we are talking about 2 subjects here?

1.   Inherent high alkaline pH value in these Melamine Sponges (pH 8-10) can cause severe burns to human skin pH 4-5.5 and denature leather pH 3-5 too!
2.   And these sponges are HIGHLY abrasive.

We cannot control the HIGHLY abrasive nature of these sponges.

But we can control the High Alkalinity to suite our purpose for cleaning leather without causing chemical burns to sensitive skins or denature leather.

Picture shows acidifier2.0™ and rinse3.0™ as antidotes to neutralize the high alkalinity.

Paul, will have to tell us his satisfaction on the effectiveness of these sponges without any further addition of alkaline cleaning solution (preferably working only with rinse3.0™ pH 3).

Tested on my white tennis shoes it works!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[*paul_moss]

The cleaning solution I use most with these sponges is Ultra clean ( ph 8.5), but any good high foaming leather cleaner will do, just use your own prerference. As regards ph on cleaning pigmented leather, I dont think ph makes a difference as your cleaning a finish and not the actual leather ( as long as the ph is not too high or too low ie ph 1 or ph 14).
Andy Alcock put  good info up some time ago on this subject which I think is spot on.

To quote.

"This is a response to several articles on leather cleaning recently posted on various forums.  It has taken some time to compile as we wanted to check all our facts and needed to discuss various points with a tannery, leather technologists and our product research specialists.  The views expressed below have been formed over 20 years of leather cleaning and restoration experience and with constant reference to the sources mentioned above.





There has been reference to the IICRC S300 Leather Cleaning Method as a safe and effective guide line.  This is an extremely limited over view on cleaning leather and makes no reference to problems that can be created by incorrect assessment of leather condition prior to beginning the cleaning process.  There is some good advice there, but too many gaps for it to be a safe guide line with the range of finishes currently on the market. E.g. The S300 mentions the possible use of dry solvents to remove certain soils and stains.  I would strongly advise against this unless you are experienced in restoration.  Dry solvents (acetones etc.) will almost certainly damage finishes applied to leather surfaces which will then need repairing.  To suggest that ‘application of leather conditioners to replenish natural oils’ when you are faced with a dissolved coating is very poor advice and very misleading and dangerous for inexperienced cleaners of leather.
 
On some forums recently there has been much reference to the pH levels. I find this very confusing and unnecessary.  In 20 years of successful cleaning and restoring leather I have never once referred to or been influenced by pH values.  My advice would be to use specific leather products that have been tried and tested by your supplier who should also be willing to support you through any problems.  The constant reference to pH may lead some cleaning operatives to think that pH is more important than product formulation and can therefore use any cleaner of the correct pH.  Leather is NOT a fabric and cleans in a different way for which specific products have been formulated.  These would have the correct pH values for the job they are designed for, you and I do not need to worry about them even if we do know them.  Strong acids and strong alkalines and dry solvents all have the potential to damage leather finishes, don’t use them for cleaning, your cleaners if correctly supplied will not be of that nature.
 
 
Spotting and problem solving in the cleaning process should be done using the same specified cleaning products but with reference to CHAT (TACT) Chemical, Heat, Agitation, Time (see separate article – to follow).
 
As a general rule and particularly with pigment coated leathers you will only be cleaning the surface or finish so your cleaning process will never come into contact with the actual leather (think wiping down a painted wooden surface) so why is the pH of the leather so important.  Things that cannot be resolved in this way are more likely not cleaning problems.  Ink, colour loss, fading, finish cracking, permanent staining, surface abrasion, most paints, nail varnish, dye transfer, excessive soil due to body oils, inappropriate use of products etc. are damage not dirt and excessive cleaning without fully understanding the problems, the causes and the solutions is more likely to cause further damage.
 
Learn what is cleaning and what is restoration and do not let the first develop into the second unless you are prepared to deal with it.  It can be expensive if you can’t.
 
Then we return to the ‘feeding’ ‘conditioning’, ‘nourishing’ topic.
It is incredibly difficult to remove the ‘natural’ oils from leather especially using detergent cleaners so replacing them is totally unnecessary and possibly detrimental on both finished and unfinished leathers.  Modern C/T (Chrome Tanned) upholstery leather is a very sophisticated product and has been for decades.  The notion that it is something straight from nature that has to be fed and nourished is totally incorrect (unless you are dealing with conservation and restoration in the museum and antique sense).  The oils and fats in C/T leather are introduced after the C/T processes have reduced the skin to pure collagen fibre (there maybe a tiny amount of fat left but it is of no significance).  The fat liquoring process carefully introduces fats/oils of a specific type back into the leather to coat the fibres,  These are balanced to produce the desired end product and are very stable and very difficult to remove.  Trying to add more fat/oil etc is totally unnecessary and is of no benefit.  On an absorbent leather products used for ‘conditioning’ and ‘feeding’ will soak into the leather upsetting the balance and over time change it to the detriment of the leather.  If the leather is non absorbent then these products have no where to go so will sit on the surface, getting slightly sticky and attracting more dirt.  If they do manage to ‘get in through the cracks’ the results will be the same as absorbent leathers with the added problem of adversely affecting the bond between surface coatings and the leather.   I thought the object was to clean it!!!!!"

[Roger Koh]

Paul,

Tell us why there are brand new pigmented leathers that are semi-absorbent to highly absorbent?

Are we then merely just cleaning the “finish” only when solution do absorbed into the leather structure?

In practical cases, most time we see worn areas, abrasion or cracks etc when the finish is gone from those areas how do we prevent undesirable products to be absorbed into the leather structure?

This picture shows typical cracks that make pigmented leather absorbent.

The second picture show that fatliquor being absorped through these surface weakness to reduce dryness, creases and wrinkles.

Creases and wrinkles are sign of diminishing original fatliquors.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I have cleaned two pigmented leather suites this week using the sponge which Paul kindly gave me.

I  soaked my sponge in warm water with a tiny bit of Pureclean, applied LTT Strong Foam cleaner so as not too cause too much friction and it cleaned brilliantly!

I was cautious not too apply too much pressure on the high wear areas and did a preclean with a normal sponge and the suites both looked wonderful afterwards for half the normal effort.

As the sponge has largely disintegrated I am now looking for supplies any advance on the above suggestions ?

Cheers

Doug

[LTT Leathercare]

Doug
Have sent an email

[Straker Cleaning]

Are these the sponges from Cornwall 

[davep]

I tried one, dont know if its my big hands but it only lasted 15 minutes 

[garyj]

From what I understand about these sponges the ones from Cornwall are the best ones to get but the blocks you buy in Walworths or JML are pretty much the same thing.

Is that right.

On WOC they are called Micro Power Large Hand Pads and cost £1.42

The JML Magic Sponge is £3.99 but is much bigger than WOC and they can be cut down

www.jmldirect.com/Magic-Eraser-PM4712/

Let me know if I am wrong 

[Mike Osbourne]

On Grand Design Live last week they had massive sheets of the stuff, it's used in the sound insulation industry. This particular sheet 8x4 even had the black sandwich layer, which apparently gives extra magic.

Bet it would work out pennies if you had a band saw.

[Joe H]

Garyj - thats the ones at £1.42 on Solutions. I have not seen the others from JML so cant comment.
There is one called "It Works" or somethng like that which I dont thiink is as durable.

DaveP - 15 minutes! - is that one from Solutions or another source. If its the one from Solutions you are using it different to me. I did 6 seater and the pad is still fine to go another one.
You got to keep it wet and I didnt rub too hard,  but it did a good job.

[Steve Chapman]

I tried one of these last week and although it was good, it did seem to disintergrate very rapidly, in fact i did not quite half a sofa and it was basically crumbs. Maybe i ws rubbing too hard  :

As this was the only one i had i tried a bug & tar sponge i had in the van (as we do car valeting aswell !) and it worked a treat, probably not as aggressive as the melamine sponge but it was still in  one piece at the end   

Has anyone else tried these, they are like a normal sponge but wrapped in a nylon type mesh which gives a bit more friction when cleaning.

I assume they must be safe as they are normally used on car bodyworks, mainly to get dead flies of the front 

a fairly good alternative i thought.....

regards
steve

[*paul_moss]

When I fisrt used these sponges 18 months ago I was going through about 3 per suite( 3 half sponges as I cut a full one into 2)
They are very agresive if used mildly dry or with a chemical that has not much foam. Doug I think this may be the case with pure clean as its a powder. I tried a number of different chemicals including m/s but found that the soapier detergents worked best and my favorite is Furniture clinics Ultra clean.
Now a Half sponge lasts me through 2 suites before its all disintigrated.
It has to be kept vey wet and soapy, and you dont need alot of presure.

This week I did a carpet clean h/s/L for a customer that had had spilage from a radiator leak. fter the cleam I gave her one of my leaflets, she says OH you do leather, well I had my leather suite cleaned 2 weeks ago. hen I cheked it out it was a cream leather suite 3 years old and this was its first clean, the cleaner had done a rubbish job. It was the local Rainbow franchise that cleaned it for £70 : ::)and trained by guess who  , I put the sponge through it with some ultra clean and the difference was like night and day. another £150 job booked in 

The again this week a carpet shop I do work for asked me to look at a schools vinyl floor,  It had a big black patch on it from a builder and 3 cleaners had tried to remove it and failed. I dont normally do hard floors, but I had a go because of the work the put my way. I used a citrus formulation ( very soapy) and used the Solution sponge. After 2 half sponges had disintergrated after hard elbow grease rubbing the stain was removed. The school head was so pleased I have now priced for the whole corridoor clean and other work from some oft he other teachers .

These sponges are a little miracle 

[LTT Leathercare]

Steve

We have found the bug and tar sponges to be quite good for cleaning, they are actually less abrassive than the magic sponges.

The problem with either sponge (apart from the previously discussed problems) is that they do not clean down in the grain pattern efficiently.  You are far better using a kitchen brush (not a tampico - these are too soft) to agitate the foam cleaner into the grain pattern so that the foam can do the job where it is needed.

Hope this helps

[*paul_moss]

Sorry Judy but beg to differ.
A brush especially a hard nylon type ( kitchen brush) is very dangerous to use on leather and will and can do a lot of damage.
The sponges from Solution Uk are the best thing I have found for leather cleaning and certainly get down into all the grain( all be it about 0.5 of a millimetre :)

Steve I will have ago with one of those tar sponges,
The Solution sponge needs to be used very wet and soapy to stop it breaking down quickly. I can do a suite plus with half a full sponge which works out at about 50 pence, I charge £150 a suite for clean and condition
Picture of a really bad one I did a couple of weeks ago it took no time at all to clean it, but the bigest thing was the easy at which the much came out of the grain.

[Glynn]

Looks good paul.

[LTT Leathercare]

Kitchen brushes are certainly not dangerous to use on leather unless you are using them to scrub the dirt out as with a magic sponge.  You use a brush to make sure the foam cleaner  is down into the grain pattern in order for the product to release the dirt.  Stiffer bristles are necessary for this as with something like a tampico brush the bristles simply bend on top of the grain pattern and have no effect whatsoever.

Cleaning leather should be a gentle process where the product does the work not elbow grease.

There are still many occassions when Magic Sponges will remove the finish (this of course leaves a very clean looking leather).

Regards
Judy

[carpet_care]

Must admit I use various brushes to good effect on leather ,starting with soft bristles right up to very course bristles depending on the type of leather and the degree of soiling.

 I have found this sometimes to be the only way to get truly clean results although I hav,nt tried these magic sponges so cannot compare the reults.



  Regards Andy Locke.

[*paul_moss]

Andy, email me your address and I will send you one. Guarentee you wont use any thing else after trying them.


Judy your answers just dont stack up

Kitchen brushes are certainly not dangerous to use on leather unless you are using them to scrub the dirt out.
What else would you use a brush for but to scrub the dirt out. If like you say the chemical does the work then you would not need to agitate with such a hard nylon brush and you would use a softer tampco type brush.
Any way if used correctly these sponges do not remove top coat, if LTT have found that then they are using them wrong.

Judy ask Andy if he wants to come and spend a day with me, and I will educate him on their use

[Mike Osbourne]

Paul

I've been using the sponges and they are great, you just have to use a biit of common sense and not over do it, as with a brush or anything else.

I've speeded up and would prefer a leather suite anyday compared to upholstery. Basically you have helped me make more money faster and more easily.

Thanks

Mike

[*paul_moss]

Cheers Mike, I just wish the others would use the same common sense.

I think with some its if they dont think of it them selves then its no good : :.

For leather cleaning these sponges are a must in my eyes for both total cleanliness of the leather and the speed at which it can be cleaned in.

[carpet_care]

Thanks Paul just seen your message watching the boxing and computer is upstairs.

  Adress sent many thanks your a gooden arn,t many like you cheers