[poleman]

have you had a bad day Andy ?

not the best lol

[richard groves]

many thanks chaps, seems its changing times out there, I was this year going to do a price increase but thats going to have to be put on hold now  I just hope its worth being a window cleaner in say 5 or 10 years time if this undercutting continues 

Its all the more reason not to be discussing hourly rates and pricing on such forums.
Also flashy vans and wfp were once mainly seen in the commercial sector, now its presence has become common place in suburbia and so the public's perception of window cleaning is changing. Unfortunately the more cleaners there are, the cheaper prices will become. Good for customers - not so good for us.

[tlwcs]

As an example if I needed a gardener and was looking for quotes I would probably go for the £15 per hour guys rather than the £8 or £10 per hour guys. The £15 per hour guys would probably have uniforms, sign written vans, insurance and actually be able to hold a conversation, basically be professional. I'm not Mick Kent

Lol fair point, cant argue with that.
Some like profesionalism and others like a bargain, the only thing is though the majority of people just want there windows cleaned for a reasonable price.why would the customer pay her window cleaner £20 a month if another offered to do it for £10 saving her a massive £120 a year halving the cost to have the same simple job done of cleaning her windows?.


I just look at it from a customers point of view which is why i accept being undercut as its business at the end of the day Some you win and some you lose.
Would you pay £200 a month gas and electric with british gas if you could half it to £100 a month with ion???   You would be a fool not too.

We think they're a fool not to change. The truth is not everybody is that concerned with the price, its they're perception of value against the level of service they are getting.

Yes gas and electric are faceless and I have no problem with finding a better deal, but in this business people buy people and thats where loyalty kicks in.

How many people drive Decia or Kia Cars as a market share, its not massive as people like to buy something they perceive as better quality. The same could be said with supermarkets.

I try not to second guess what the customer can afford.
Tony

[C o z y]

many thanks chaps, seems its changing times out there, I was this year going to do a price increase but thats going to have to be put on hold now   I just hope its worth being a window cleaner in say 5 or 10 years time if this undercutting continues  

Its all the more reason not to be discussing hourly rates and pricing on such forums.
Also flashy vans and wfp were once mainly seen in the commercial sector, now its presence has become common place in suburbia and so the public's perception of window cleaning is changing. Unfortunately the more cleaners there are, the cheaper prices will become. Good for customers - not so good for us.

I agree with some of that. However, shiney vans make little if no difference to a custy. When I'm knocking doors, the person stood in the door can't see my van, and can only see me. I'm dressed casually but neatly. I look 'em in the eye and ask if they got my flyer recently, and are they interested in having a windy.
IMO, because I collect about 75% of my money from custies, I get contact on a regular basis. They know who cleans their windows. So when I get the odd summer brigade trying to build a round in the areas I work, they're on an uphill struggle regarding getting my work.

Some of you don't even see your customers on a regular basis. A lot of you have your custies on Standing Order payments or PayPal. So contact is a minimum. I find they're less likely to change windies if they know their windy.
In the past, my ex wife would never have swapped windies if she was happy with the service. Better the devil you know, what happens if she swapped and the service was crap, or they stop coming?

So it's not just about price, and anyway, who wants custies that drop you for a couple of quid?

By the way, Mick Kent handled that shot from Tom 1 quite well I thought.  

[SeanK]

many thanks chaps, seems its changing times out there, I was this year going to do a price increase but thats going to have to be put on hold now  I just hope its worth being a window cleaner in say 5 or 10 years time if this undercutting continues 

Poleman, I work in an area where there isn't a fortune in window cleaning.
Don't know if its down to under cutters or was it always that way.
But I can still earn a lot more than if I was working in a factory or similar so I think window cleaning will always
be worth doing.
Plus with wfp we no longer have to risk life and limb to achieve this.
The problem is wages are falling in all the different sectors of employment so window cleaning has to follow.

[dazmond]

id still put your prices up if you think their too low IMO.when was the last time to you put them up?

some of mine ive not put up for 4 or 5 years.they are going up this year.quite a few i put up 2 years ago.they are going up again too.

everythings going up.nevermind low wages.you work for yourself not anybody else and you have overheads that employees dont have.

[SeanK]

How can you not mind low wages or in what direction your customers wages are going ?
I got over 40 inquiries last week from customers who think their window cleaner has got to
expensive.
These where loyal customers that have been with this guy for many years.
Made me think again about putting up my prices this year.

[Pro-Poler]

Some window cleaners are complacent. Supermarkets under cut, so do insurance companies or in fact any industry, it's called competition, yes I have read all the arguments about looking more professional or having a nice sign written van and getting payed by bacs, read a post on here where someone said they prefer manual collecting as they like to see their customers face to face now and again, fact is if you do a decent job, pass the time of day with your customers and  accept a cup of tea now and again you'll get more respected instead of whipping through a job before they've finished writing the cheque out, I was slagged off for doing £6 jobs once that take 10 minutes, I wouldn't have kept them jobs if I charged 12 quid like some suggested. But in forum land the truth is not often spoken just look at the amount of posters who never lose any work.   

[DaveG]

I have been a window cleaner for 26 years and in the past four or five years seen a big explosion in joe public getting into this much loved industry of ours, yes you can blame WFP as its a lot safer, but WFP has been good to us, however I have personal lost in the past 6 months 20 domestic customers to others undercutting, one customer said he would do the first clean free and half what I charge on the next clean, now my point is....for me and many other window cleaners I come incontact with over many years its a unwritten rule that you DON'T undercut on houses, if you do a bad job or are unreliable then fine but undercutting will kill this much loved industry  sorry rant over its just I have worked hard to build up my business and to see it going down likes this is soul destroying
 

It's cos your'e rubbish 

[Perfect Windows]

If price were all that mattered, no-one would be driving BMWs (or VW T5s for that matter).

Vin

[roundbuilder]

If price were all that mattered, no-one would be driving BMWs (or VW T5s for that matter).

Vin

Bmw vs ford is different to a window cleaner named dave and another window cleaner called john who both charge totally different amounts but still both have the same end result which is clean windows for the customer.
I always buy a nice car as i work hard to be able to have 1 but if i wanted my lawn cut and got 2 different quotes and 1 was half the price of the other then i sure as hell wouldnt go for the most expensive quote for exactly the same job to be done id go for the cheapest as cutting a lawn/ cleaning windows etc etc isnt rocket science and nomatter what you pay any half decent window cleaner will do a good job if they want repeat custom,
When insurance hunting, do you shop around for a low premium like most or do you ring around and pull your hair out trying to find the most expencive quote??.

[robbo333]

I've only lost a few to 'cheaper prices' but on the flip side, i'm picking up a quite a bit of work from 'cheaper window cleaners' not doing a proper job. And i'm pricing it 'correctly'.
The way I see it is:
If the cheap boys want to have a few of my customers, then those customers were only ever interested in a cheap job and probably not worth having anyway.
If I can get some of their customers, those customers are interested in a better quality job (and are prepared to pay for it), so will probably be good long term custys.
What goes round, comes round  

[roundbuilder]

Hi robbo, if you get a chance to mail me about the sold board thing from the other post id be well greatful.
I got a map from that other guy but. It wasnt realy much to write home about as doesnt tell me what the addressesactualy are so i wont be paying £2 per house lol..

Cheers mate.

[Perfect Windows]

If price were all that mattered, no-one would be driving BMWs (or VW T5s for that matter).

Vin

Bmw vs ford is different to a window cleaner named dave and another window cleaner called john who both charge totally different amounts but still both have the same end result which is clean windows for the customer.
I always buy a nice car as i work hard to be able to have 1 but if i wanted my lawn cut and got 2 different quotes and 1 was half the price of the other then i sure as hell wouldnt go for the most expensive quote for exactly the same job to be done id go for the cheapest as cutting a lawn/ cleaning windows etc etc isnt rocket science and nomatter what you pay any half decent window cleaner will do a good job if they want repeat custom,
When insurance hunting, do you shop around for a low premium like most or do you ring around and pull your hair out trying to find the most expencive quote??.

All assumes that the job required is just clean windows.

Some want a call before a visit.  Some want flexibility on timings.  Some want their windows done every fortnight, some every four weeks, some every eight, some every twelve.  Some want a CRB checked cleaner.  Some want trad, some want WFP, some don't care.  Some want someone who doesn't ever hassle them, some want someone who stops for a cup of tea and a chat.  Some want to pay cash, some chequye, some by BACS, some by standing order.  Some want the same face every week, some don't care.  Some want a one man band, some want a company.  Some want a guy in a recognisable van.  Some want to know that the guy who comes has key insurance.  Some want the frames done as well as the glass, some just want glass and don't care about frames.

And, yes, they all want clean windows.  But amongst that lot are some requirements that will make someone pay more for the cleaner of their choice. So if they want their windows cleaned every fortnight and you only offer 6-weekly, price goes out of the window; you're not going to get the job even if you're cheaper.  (That's an example, so don't get too fixated on the detail).  If they want a trad guy and you're only WFP then you can halve your prices and not get the business.

Ref insurance, no, only a madman would look for the most expensive quote; that's a ridiculous straw man.  However, last renewal, about a month ago, I took a premium hike for a replacement WFP van if I'm off the road.  So, once again, it wasn't price.

Vin

[robbo333]

Hi robbo, if you get a chance to mail me about the sold board thing from the other post id be well greatful.
I got a map from that other guy but. It wasnt realy much to write home about as doesnt tell me what the addressesactualy are so i wont be paying £2 per house lol..

Cheers mate.

Hi Mick
Sorry mate I thought I'd sent it. Give me your email and I'll do it now.

[robbo333]

Hi robbo, if you get a chance to mail me about the sold board thing from the other post id be well greatful.
I got a map from that other guy but. It wasnt realy much to write home about as doesnt tell me what the addressesactualy are so i wont be paying £2 per house lol..

Cheers mate.

Hi Mick
Sorry mate I thought I'd sent it. Give me your email and I'll do it now.

Just checked and I sent it on 21 Feb at 6.30.
No probs i'll resend it.

[roundbuilder]

Hi robbo, if you get a chance to mail me about the sold board thing from the other post id be well greatful.
I got a map from that other guy but. It wasnt realy much to write home about as doesnt tell me what the addressesactualy are so i wont be paying £2 per house lol..

Cheers mate.

Hi Mick
Sorry mate I thought I'd sent it. Give me your email and I'll do it now.

Cheers mate
Mikestav82@icloud.com

[robbo333]

Hi robbo, if you get a chance to mail me about the sold board thing from the other post id be well greatful.
I got a map from that other guy but. It wasnt realy much to write home about as doesnt tell me what the addressesactualy are so i wont be paying £2 per house lol..

Cheers mate.

Hi Mick
Sorry mate I thought I'd sent it. Give me your email and I'll do it now.

Cheers mate
Mikestav82@icloud.com

Email sent.

[roundbuilder]

If price were all that mattered, no-one would be driving BMWs (or VW T5s for that matter).

Vin

Bmw vs ford is different to a window cleaner named dave and another window cleaner called john who both charge totally different amounts but still both have the same end result which is clean windows for the customer.
I always buy a nice car as i work hard to be able to have 1 but if i wanted my lawn cut and got 2 different quotes and 1 was half the price of the other then i sure as hell wouldnt go for the most expensive quote for exactly the same job to be done id go for the cheapest as cutting a lawn/ cleaning windows etc etc isnt rocket science and nomatter what you pay any half decent window cleaner will do a good job if they want repeat custom,
When insurance hunting, do you shop around for a low premium like most or do you ring around and pull your hair out trying to find the most expencive quote??.

All assumes that the job required is just clean windows.

Some want a call before a visit.  Some want flexibility on timings.  Some want their windows done every fortnight, some every four weeks, some every eight, some every twelve.  Some want a CRB checked cleaner.  Some want trad, some want WFP, some don't care.  Some want someone who doesn't ever hassle them, some want someone who stops for a cup of tea and a chat.  Some want to pay cash, some chequye, some by BACS, some by standing order.  Some want the same face every week, some don't care.  Some want a one man band, some want a company.  Some want a guy in a recognisable van.  Some want to know that the guy who comes has key insurance.  Some want the frames done as well as the glass, some just want glass and don't care about frames.

And, yes, they all want clean windows.  But amongst that lot are some requirements that will make someone pay more for the cleaner of their choice. So if they want their windows cleaned every fortnight and you only offer 6-weekly, price goes out of the window; you're not going to get the job even if you're cheaper.  (That's an example, so don't get too fixated on the detail).  If they want a trad guy and you're only WFP then you can halve your prices and not get the business.

Ref insurance, no, only a madman would look for the most expensive quote; that's a ridiculous straw man.  However, last renewal, about a month ago, I took a premium hike for a replacement WFP van if I'm off the road.  So, once again, it wasn't price.

Vin

Vin i get what your saying. But window cleaning is one of lifes simplist of things to get done as we are 10 to the penny for customers to find.
Im sure 99 percent of cleaners are fine calling the night before, doing it 4/6/8/12 weekly,if not a customer that you have had for years and years who you speak with reguly then of course ill get the job if im cheaper, a good example is me i have over 1200 customers and pretty much all my old existing customers that are 3years plus upto 12 never drop me at all which is 400 of my customer base, however the rest from my other rounds i have built and charging my new prices of £10 for a front whatever the size i do lose customers to undercutters and the customer tells me that is the reason too, i lose around 10 customers a year to undercutters yet im reliable, i do a thorough job, i even trad dry the bottoms, i banter with customers and always crack jokes and pay them compliments but it still doesnt stop them going for another cleaner who is half my price and able to do exactly the same job as me.
Just the way it is.

[roundbuilder]

Hi robbo, if you get a chance to mail me about the sold board thing from the other post id be well greatful.
I got a map from that other guy but. It wasnt realy much to write home about as doesnt tell me what the addressesactualy are so i wont be paying £2 per house lol..

Cheers mate.

Hi Mick
Sorry mate I thought I'd sent it. Give me your email and I'll do it now.

Cheers mate
Mikestav82@icloud.com

Email sent.

Got it, cheers mate.