[Tony Edwards]

If I take on an apprentice, will I be able to claim any money back ?

By that i mean his wages etc, if so any idea how much ?

I have a young kid who is 17 who has asked if I would take him on

cheers

[britishwill]

This may help?

I got it sent to me when I employed from the job centre.

Dear Employer,
I hope that the advertisement on Job Centre Plus went well and your new employee is settling in?
 
Did you know that your business is entitled to receive government funding to help support the training costs of your new employee?
 
If you would like to find out more just reply to this email.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Alice Townsend | Employer Advisor   
 
Government Funding Team | Planning for Growth…Investing in our Future
Call us on 0845 177 1880 to find out how we can support your business

[wfp master]

you mean trainee.? no such thing as a apprentice window cleaner.

[john@windows2clean]

I have an apprentice. He is employed as a window cleaner in my business. He is doing a City & Guilds Certificate with the local college. I would class him as a window cleaning apprentice as do his tutors and the college liaison team.

[glen parva]

I have an apprentice. He is employed as a window cleaner in my business. He is doing a City & Guilds Certificate with the local college. I would class him as a window cleaning apprentice as do his tutors and the college liaison team.

same here

[dave0123]

city & guids in what

[Tom White]

I've just done a quick google and it looks like there is an employer's grant, but you have to employ at least 1000 people first:



http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Employers.aspx

But that was only a quick google; look into it deeper.

[zeusweiler]

Lol. Apprentice window cleaner!. How many years till were all time served then. How many years on average does it take to become a window cleaner.

As I understand you can't trade as a joiner plumber electrician etc till your time served. This is not the case with window cleaning no formal qualifications required. Start up and off you go. I'm sure my boss employed some new guys this year and guess what there already window cleaners.

I do admit there is an element of skill and knowledge/experience required to be a good windy but its not rocket science and anyone can do it.

You don't get junkies posing as sparkies during the summer.

I know everybody is protective of there job. But in all honesty that's all it is a manual job. And if you are studying at college to do this crap in winter then you don't have much of an ambition or life. Has nobody told him yet that he could just buy a van and take all your work no need for college. He might end up doing it anyways.

[john@windows2clean]

Just the sort or replies I expect here.  If the OP would like info please PM.

[Tony Edwards]

Just the sort or replies I expect here.  If the OP would like info please PM.

Hi John


Do you have an email address ?
thanks

Tony

[Window Washers]

Lol. Apprentice window cleaner!. How many years till were all time served then. How many years on average does it take to become a window cleaner.

As I understand you can't trade as a joiner plumber electrician etc till your time served. This is not the case with window cleaning no formal qualifications required. Start up and off you go. I'm sure my boss employed some new guys this year and guess what there already window cleaners.

I do admit there is an element of skill and knowledge/experience required to be a good windy but its not rocket science and anyone can do it.

You don't get junkies posing as sparkies during the summer.

I know everybody is protective of there job. But in all honesty that's all it is a manual job. And if you are studying at college to do this crap in winter then you don't have much of an ambition or life. Has nobody told him yet that he could just buy a van and take all your work no need for college. He might end up doing it anyways.

plumbing is not rocket science either anyone can learn that too, with no formal qualifications. So we as window cleaners are no different.

I geniuinly could teach an apprentice a lot.

The point is so many aspects are easy, only if you know how. Very hard if you dont.

Tony any chance you could copy me in on that email please design@windowwashers.co.uk

[wfp master]

I have an apprentice. He is employed as a window cleaner in my business. He is doing a City & Guilds Certificate with the local college. I would class him as a window cleaning apprentice as do his tutors and the college liaison team.

did you. do an apprenticship in window cleaning.

[C o z y]

How long does this apprenticeship take then? What's the qualification when he finishes? Will it make a difference to is wages when he goes to an employer, if so by how much? Is this as far as the guys ambition goes? Does he need the qualification?

How do you feel about training him if he went solo and was in your area?

[wfp master]

has anyone ever been to college and done a window cleaning
apprenticeship?how long did the course last until you were out your time?
are you now a time served window cleaner? I cant see any courses for apprentice window cleaners anywhere.

[DG Cleaning]

What does the apprentice learn after the first day then. Get a grip you lot use some common sense don't ask the tax payer to fork out for your staff's wages. Window cleanings easy anyone with half a brain can pick it up in no time at all.

[DG Cleaning]

Let's not compare plumbing to window cleaning. Yes you don't need formal qualifications to call yourself a plumber but being a plumber is a much more technical discipline than cleaning windows.

[wfp master]

people trying to be something they are not saying they have apprentices no you dont you have a employee.eg a helper worker.

[rosskesava]

It's like so many things now. Take something straight forwards and simple, apply words to it that add spin and are in essence pretty meaningless and hey presto, 'employ young person as window cleaner' becomes 'an apprenticeship'.

I did an engineering apprenticeship years ago and it was 5 years of 40 hours a week. The government are doing a pr job by taking something from the past that actually meant something and applying it to the present and to just 'a job'.

[Window Washers]

Let's not compare plumbing to window cleaning. Yes you don't need formal qualifications to call yourself a plumber but being a plumber is a much more technical discipline than cleaning windows.

I will compare it, because I have a city and guilds in plumbing so I am in a good place to compare the two, both are different skill set

[Tony Edwards]

So can anyone just answer the original question ?

[Window Washers]

I know if they are on the dole you can get paid money for taking someone on, I havent had an apprentice mate so cannot answer your question.

Try this site : http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Employers.aspx

[C o z y]

So can anyone just answer the original question ?

You can see for yourself Tony, it's not just an answer to your question, it's a question of is he an apprentice aswell.  Look at the link Ian has posted. Should get an answer there. I really don't believe there is an apprenticeship in window washing. Is there one in car washing or bin cleaning? I don't honestly know.

Where I live, there are apprenticeships in both plumbing and hairdressing!! Both 36 months.

[DG Cleaning]

Ian, Did you do a plumbing apprenticeship or have you just got a city & guilds in it? Two very different things.

[DG Cleaning]

I if someone came to me for a job and said they had completed an apprenticeship as a window cleaner I'd be very dubious about them. I'd think they were lacking in common sense, nous or to use an old expression " a little bit light under the cap"   

[Window Washers]

Ian, Did you do a plumbing apprenticeship or have you just got a city & guilds in it? Two very different things.

2 year city and guilds they amount to the same thing the qualification, but i know what your meaning

[Tony Edwards]

Maybe I should rephrase it to trainee !

[Window Washers]

Maybe I should rephrase it to trainee !

[C o z y]

Maybe I should rephrase it to trainee !

 

[DG Cleaning]

Thanks Ian

[wfp master]

Maybe I should rephrase it to trainee !

[Carl2009]

These so called apprenticeships are a travesty: http://www.edexcel.com/quals/apprenticeships/customerservice/Pages/default.aspx

They are NOT apprenticeships, they are training courses and a way for the government to alter statistics in my opinion. Mind you at 49 I belong to a generation where a proper apprenticeship was 4 or 5 years before you got your papers. Not that i've ever done one.

As others have said it won't take long to get the basics of window cleaning; add in a bit more time for H and S training and you are away. Success depends more on knowing how to run a business properly and having the right personality (having what my mother called the gift of the gab has been a greater or lesser part of my "success").

[john@windows2clean]

Tony, what is your email - I'll forward details to you.

[zeusweiler]

look i wasn't trying to make a full of this topic in any way, but you have to agree my points were valid.

the op posted the wrong wording it should of been trainee. then somebody glorified it by saying his apprentice was at college doing window cleaning.

if my post was what you expected from the forum and you are offended by it then I'm sorry but you have to ask yourself why are you on here then.

it wasnt me who posted summin stupid sounding you did that yourself. you have to see how silly this sounds you are training a so called apprentice who is learning from you!!! who didn't do an apprenticeship in the first place. in my book that makes him more qualified than you on paper if what you say is true.  

i don't know you, its not personal, i don't really care.

the truth is the truth, its not a trade its a manual job.
you are classed as a manual outside worker with the government, insurance companies, banks etc.

i do this job to fill a gap. it suits my lifestyle at the moment. i work around my wife (who has a career) and kids and this job is great for that. I've been to college in my early twenties in another line of work and gained 4 years of training but even with that i wasn't classed as an apprentice. i will continue to do window cleaning part time when i go back to do my first 2 years of a sound engineering degree in september. im just saying if there was an apprenticeship in wc we would all be awarded ionic systems qualifications.

if the guy was at college doing an hnd in business management with the intention of setting up one day in window cleaning that sounds respectful enough.

read the points-

i do agree if you are new to this you are a trainee. and there is a difference in skill levels between window cleaners. but the truth is if this is an industry that classes trainee window cleaners as apprentices then trad only, or wfp only windies dont have the entire training or skill set to be able to trade as time served.

that is fact!.

so what happens to these guys that have been trad for the past 30 years are they still an apprentice??? coz they cant do wfp.

[Tony Edwards]

Tony, what is your email - I'll forward details to you.

John


images121@live.co.uk

thanks very much

[Caleb Morley]

FAO: John

Hi John,

I cant seem to PM you for some reason. I would be grateful if you sent me some details about this aswell as I am looking at going down this route early next year. Is that ok?

Cheers,

Caleb

e-mail: info@lionsoflondon.co.uk

[ben M]

I've just done a quick google and it looks like there is an employer's grant, but you have to employ at least 1000 people first:



http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Employers.aspx

But that was only a quick google; look into it deeper.

Tosh, up to 1000 employees not at least 1000 people! 

[Tom White]

Thanks, Ben.  My close reading skills are lacking sometimes.  That puts a whole different slant on it, eh?

When someone understands the gist of the thing, brief me please.   

[Tom White]

look i wasn't trying to make a full of this topic in any way, but you have to agree my points were valid.

the op posted the wrong wording it should of been trainee. then somebody glorified it by saying his apprentice was at college doing window cleaning.

if my post was what you expected from the forum and you are offended by it then I'm sorry but you have to ask yourself why are you on here then.

it wasnt me who posted summin stupid sounding you did that yourself. you have to see how silly this sounds you are training a so called apprentice who is learning from you!!! who didn't do an apprenticeship in the first place. in my book that makes him more qualified than you on paper if what you say is true.  

i don't know you, its not personal, i don't really care.

the truth is the truth, its not a trade its a manual job.
you are classed as a manual outside worker with the government, insurance companies, banks etc.

i do this job to fill a gap. it suits my lifestyle at the moment. i work around my wife (who has a career) and kids and this job is great for that. I've been to college in my early twenties in another line of work and gained 4 years of training but even with that i wasn't classed as an apprentice. i will continue to do window cleaning part time when i go back to do my first 2 years of a sound engineering degree in september. im just saying if there was an apprenticeship in wc we would all be awarded ionic systems qualifications.

if the guy was at college doing an hnd in business management with the intention of setting up one day in window cleaning that sounds respectful enough.

read the points-

i do agree if you are new to this you are a trainee. and there is a difference in skill levels between window cleaners. but the truth is if this is an industry that classes trainee window cleaners as apprentices then trad only, or wfp only windies dont have the entire training or skill set to be able to trade as time served.

that is fact!.

so what happens to these guys that have been trad for the past 30 years are they still an apprentice??? coz they cant do wfp.

Zeus, why don't you start another post rather than clutter this one up with your thoughts and opinions?

I'd be interested to read the experience of the guys who've used this scheme.

[wfp master]

wtf.

[john@windows2clean]

For those that have shown interest:

- You will need to register as an employer if not already with HMRC
- You will need all things that go with being an employer, employers insurance, PAYE setup and proper employee contracts.
- The apprentice will need to be on a minimum of 30 hour contract, and will be entitled to all usual employee benefits (holidays,sick etc)
- You will be paying employer NIC's on top of wages
- If your apprentice is of a young age you need to adhere to young persons employment laws, such as 2 consecutive days of a week etc
- You have to pay them whilst they are at college.
- The minimum pay is £2.85 or something ridiculous, but your unlikely to get someone decent that will do it for that, I am paying a 16 year old £6 an hour, he is happy with that.
- You will get £1500, £750 after 3 months, then the remainder after 6 months. This only really covers the cost of the days at college.
- What you will hopefully get is an eager person wanting to prove themselves, and will make a great investment to your business.
- They will study the same NVQ that Impact get slated for here on CIU through the college but also small business training such as marketing, accounts, time management etc. Also there are modules on COSHH, H&S, risk assessments, method statements etc.

At the end of the day it is not a way of getting cheap labour, it is a way of getting a person into your business. If they remain with you after the 12-18months then its a good thing, if they move on they will have a CV with work experience and a qualification on it for future jobs which is good for them.

If you don't already employ and are a sole trader you will really have to do the maths, because you will need to work out what this will cost you and if you can afford it. (Wages+NICs+Increased Insurance+Kit+Uniform etc).

[C o z y]

Great post. So, Tony, still going ahead with the apprentice thingy?? 

[zeusweiler]

ok point taken but they are facts!!!, not opinions and thoughts.

i walked into a window cleaning job 10 years ago on the same wage as the rest with no Q's and previous training try doing that with a real trade.

it is a way of exploiting people and gaining cheap labour nothing more, regardless of what you all say.

you are all living on a far distant planet if you think this is a trade and you are imagining yourselves to be something you are not. non of you could answer the points made.

you are looking at it from an employers point of view only. think of the poor chap that has to go to an interview one day and says he did an apprenticeship in window cleaning, LOL is the response.

it also means that non of you lot are time served either unless you have undertaken the same training under a qualified certified mentor.

bunch of jokers....

[Caleb Morley]

John,

In your opinion is an apprentice only a real option if your looking for someone 5 days a week or would it also work if you only needed help on 2-3 days a week?

Cheers for your post and opinion,

Caleb

[Tom White]

ok point taken but they are facts!!!, not opinions and thoughts.

i walked into a window cleaning job 10 years ago on the same wage as the rest with no Q's and previous training try doing that with a real trade.

it is a way of exploiting people and gaining cheap labour nothing more, regardless of what you all say.

you are all living on a far distant planet if you think this is a trade and you are imagining yourselves to be something you are not. non of you could answer the points made.

you are looking at it from an employers point of view only. think of the poor chap that has to go to an interview one day and says he did an apprenticeship in window cleaning, LOL is the response.

it also means that non of you lot are time served either unless you have undertaken the same training under a qualified certified mentor.

bunch of jokers....

Shush, babs, please, remove your self centred views from this post.  No-one really gives a hoot what your views are; please let the grown ups speak and we might learn something useful, rather than reading about how great and clever you are.  We really don't care.

[Tom White]

For those that have shown interest:

- You will need to register as an employer if not already with HMRC
- You will need all things that go with being an employer, employers insurance, PAYE setup and proper employee contracts.
- The apprentice will need to be on a minimum of 30 hour contract, and will be entitled to all usual employee benefits (holidays,sick etc)
- You will be paying employer NIC's on top of wages
- If your apprentice is of a young age you need to adhere to young persons employment laws, such as 2 consecutive days of a week etc
- You have to pay them whilst they are at college.
- The minimum pay is £2.85 or something ridiculous, but your unlikely to get someone decent that will do it for that, I am paying a 16 year old £6 an hour, he is happy with that.
- You will get £1500, £750 after 3 months, then the remainder after 6 months. This only really covers the cost of the days at college.
- What you will hopefully get is an eager person wanting to prove themselves, and will make a great investment to your business.
- They will study the same NVQ that Impact get slated for here on CIU through the college but also small business training such as marketing, accounts, time management etc. Also there are modules on COSHH, H&S, risk assessments, method statements etc.

At the end of the day it is not a way of getting cheap labour, it is a way of getting a person into your business. If they remain with you after the 12-18months then its a good thing, if they move on they will have a CV with work experience and a qualification on it for future jobs which is good for them.

If you don't already employ and are a sole trader you will really have to do the maths, because you will need to work out what this will cost you and if you can afford it. (Wages+NICs+Increased Insurance+Kit+Uniform etc).

Thanks, John, that was a really good post.

Cheers.

[zeusweiler]

Ye ye point taken. then it does sound a touch delusional tho, and my points are valid I don't believe you can legally train anyone if you are not certified yourself no matter how its dressed up.

I won't post on this topic again and let you all get on with it, my apologies

[wfp master]

thread title should be changed.we know theres no such thing.

[john@windows2clean]

a google of the definition of apprentice is as follows:
A person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages

Is it a trade?
From our AXA business insurance policy schedule:
Business description
Primary Trade:  Window Cleaners

Am I a skilled employer?
I have the same certification he is studying for and as far as I am aware is the only recognised one currently

Am I paying a low wage?
No - maybe for this reason I shouldn't be calling him an apprentice then.

[Tony Edwards]

John

Thanks very much for your email. It went into junk for some reason

cheers

mate

[suds window service]

I have an apprentice. He is employed as a window cleaner in my business. He is doing a City & Guilds Certificate with the local college. I would class him as a window cleaning apprentice as do his tutors and the college liaison team.

We too have an apprentice. Same as above.

[Washing Windows]

For those that have shown interest:

- You will need to register as an employer if not already with HMRC
- You will need all things that go with being an employer, employers insurance, PAYE setup and proper employee contracts.
- The apprentice will need to be on a minimum of 30 hour contract, and will be entitled to all usual employee benefits (holidays,sick etc)
- You will be paying employer NIC's on top of wages
- If your apprentice is of a young age you need to adhere to young persons employment laws, such as 2 consecutive days of a week etc
- You have to pay them whilst they are at college.
- The minimum pay is £2.85 or something ridiculous, but your unlikely to get someone decent that will do it for that, I am paying a 16 year old £6 an hour, he is happy with that.
- You will get £1500, £750 after 3 months, then the remainder after 6 months. This only really covers the cost of the days at college.
- What you will hopefully get is an eager person wanting to prove themselves, and will make a great investment to your business.
- They will study the same NVQ that Impact get slated for here on CIU through the college but also small business training such as marketing, accounts, time management etc. Also there are modules on COSHH, H&S, risk assessments, method statements etc.

At the end of the day it is not a way of getting cheap labour, it is a way of getting a person into your business. If they remain with you after the 12-18months then its a good thing, if they move on they will have a CV with work experience and a qualification on it for future jobs which is good for them.

If you don't already employ and are a sole trader you will really have to do the maths, because you will need to work out what this will cost you and if you can afford it. (Wages+NICs+Increased Insurance+Kit+Uniform etc).

Really useful post, thanks.

Duncan

[wfp master]

I have an apprentice. He is employed as a window cleaner in my business. He is doing a City & Guilds Certificate with the local college. I would class him as a window cleaning apprentice as do his tutors and the college liaison team.

We too have an apprentice. Same as above.

no college i know of does an apprenticeship for window cleaning.