Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2022, 07:38:20 am »
I was getting my maths wrong. 😂

That is both reassuring and scary at the same time.

I suppose at that level though, 200,000 of flyers, the business is at a big enough scale to absorb a 20k advertising hit.

Well it’s not a nice feeling to spend that money (my most ever by a long way) and get my worst ever response.

But business is currently still in rude health. I’ve got really good at managing my business finances and budgeting, so the money was there to spend on marketing. It wasn’t a gamble
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 943
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2022, 10:36:52 am »
I was getting my maths wrong. 😂

That is both reassuring and scary at the same time.

I suppose at that level though, 200,000 of flyers, the business is at a big enough scale to absorb a 20k advertising hit.

Well it’s not a nice feeling to spend that money (my most ever by a long way) and get my worst ever response.

But business is currently still in rude health. I’ve got really good at managing my business finances and budgeting, so the money was there to spend on marketing. It wasn’t a gamble

you say its a terrible response, which may be you are right.  All things considered though i would say that is a decent return on investment.  As i said in my other message, people will happily pay x3 to a canvasser all day long or buy rounds from x5-x10 for decent rounds.  So even if its a bad response from your leaflet campaign the ROI is still not bad too be fair.  Which just leaves room for improvement on perhaps your next leaflet drop.

I can understand the worry though.  That kind of outlay with literally no guaranteed return is scary.  I guess you just have to put faith in the design of your leaflets, your office/systems in place and know that if you do things right the results will come one way or another!

Smudger

  • Posts: 13248
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2022, 11:56:46 am »
It’s also knowing your market - leaflets are also a slow burn - I’ve had people call some 3 years after a leaflet was delivered  :o

They are pinned to notice boards etc- your there when needed (usually bespoke work) and of course you get seen in the road it’s a constant reminder to potential customers

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

hotsteam

  • Posts: 422
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2022, 12:37:02 pm »
I’m interested to hear how this went?

I’ve had a very poor response to leaflets this year.

We dropped 450,000 in total and got only around 250 customers..
What are the new 250 customers worth?

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2022, 02:34:50 pm »
I’m interested to hear how this went?

I’ve had a very poor response to leaflets this year.

We dropped 450,000 in total and got only around 250 customers..
What are the new 250 customers worth?

Worth £4250 sales  ( £650 profit) a month
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Stoots

  • Posts: 6060
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2022, 05:05:10 pm »
Paying 4x for leafletted customers is a better result than  paying a canvasser 3x at the retention  rate will be much better.

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....


DJW

  • Posts: 933
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2022, 07:24:47 pm »
I got 250 customers for absolutely no outlay whatsoever 🤷‍♂️

deeege

  • Posts: 4960
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2022, 07:28:45 pm »

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....

How much time would you spend on gaining 250 customers on FB?

I’ve said it a million times (and you’ve disagreed nearly every time) but the thought of communicating with 250 customers on FB fills me with dread.  Absolute cranks 95% of the time.
"....and it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink, and mother wake me early in the morning."

james peters

  • Posts: 937
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2022, 07:31:31 pm »
I got 250 customers for absolutely no outlay whatsoever 🤷‍♂️

Do tell.... unless they were given to you, I would imagine that to be impossible. even if they were walk ups

robbo333

  • Posts: 2407
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2022, 09:59:48 pm »
I’m hoping maybe one day just one day someone will put a price on these leaflet drops.

Mine cost £350 per 10,000 to deliver (areas of my choice)
and £67 to print - 10,000, A6 double sided.

Out of 10,000 I usually got about 40 enquiries.
From the 40 enquiries, 20 of them would be good at £20 per regular clean (not first clean).
Out of the 20 good ones, 2 or 3 would also have extra work done, fsg, pressure washing, soft washing etc at around £180 a pop.
I'm happy with that.
"Thank you for calling: if you have a 1st floor flat, mid terraced house, lots of dogs, no parking, no side access, or no sense of humour, please press hold!
For all other enquiries, please press1"

Slacky

  • Posts: 7666
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2022, 08:00:02 am »
I got 250 customers for absolutely no outlay whatsoever 🤷‍♂️

Do tell.... unless they were given to you, I would imagine that to be impossible. even if they were walk ups

It’s not impossible. It’s probably how most people used to start in this business. Door knocking.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2022, 08:32:26 am »
I got 250 customers for absolutely no outlay whatsoever 🤷‍♂️

Do tell.... unless they were given to you, I would imagine that to be impossible. even if they were walk ups

It’s not impossible. It’s probably how most people used to start in this business. Door knocking.

Your outlay was your time and your energy

That doesn’t come for free in a  business

(I started by door knocking too) 
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Stoots

  • Posts: 6060
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2022, 11:32:03 am »

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....

How much time would you spend on gaining 250 customers on FB?

I’ve said it a million times (and you’ve disagreed nearly every time) but the thought of communicating with 250 customers on FB fills me with dread.  Absolute cranks 95% of the time.

Not nearly enough time to warrant not saving 15k in marketting costs that's for sure !

Well once you've set your ads up and your leads start to come in you need to contact them, give them a call or on messenger whatever way you want to set your leads up.

I disagree slightly, fb leads won't  be as good as leafletted leads but they are better than canvassed customers for retention rate as they are not cold called. They see ads and respond to an ad .

I usually work on a 50 % conversion of a lead . So if an average lead costs £5 then and average customer signed up costs £10.


As an aside you can get 250 customers for free from Facebook if you play the longer game.

Last time I posted on free groups in one evening I got around 20 new customers and one evenings posting a few months ago got me over 100 enquiries resulting in about 50 new customers.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13248
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2022, 12:17:37 pm »

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....

How much time would you spend on gaining 250 customers on FB?

I’ve said it a million times (and you’ve disagreed nearly every time) but the thought of communicating with 250 customers on FB fills me with dread.  Absolute cranks 95% of the time.

Not nearly enough time to warrant not saving 15k in marketting costs that's for sure !

Well once you've set your ads up and your leads start to come in you need to contact them, give them a call or on messenger whatever way you want to set your leads up.

I disagree slightly, fb leads won't  be as good as leafletted leads but they are better than canvassed customers for retention rate as they are not cold called. They see ads and respond to an ad .

I usually work on a 50 % conversion of a lead . So if an average lead costs £5 then and average customer signed up costs £10.


As an aside you can get 250 customers for free from Facebook if you play the longer game.

Last time I posted on free groups in one evening I got around 20 new customers and one evenings posting a few months ago got me over 100 enquiries resulting in about 50 new customers.

I found this not to be the case - my first 500 canvassed customers from 12 years ago are still going strong - maybe 70 of these no longer with me - thats mostly moved - still have them at new address (those in the area) some oldies who have passed on and a small minority that fell by the wayside

At currently canvassing over the last 3 months - have yet to have one cancel

FB on the other hand - don't want to pay the price - always issues with the clean - then don't normally last until clean 3

I'll stick with leaflets and canvassing

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

High-Tower

  • Posts: 249
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2022, 02:17:43 pm »

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....

How much time would you spend on gaining 250 customers on FB?

I’ve said it a million times (and you’ve disagreed nearly every time) but the thought of communicating with 250 customers on FB fills me with dread.  Absolute cranks 95% of the time.

Not nearly enough time to warrant not saving 15k in marketting costs that's for sure !

Well once you've set your ads up and your leads start to come in you need to contact them, give them a call or on messenger whatever way you want to set your leads up.

I disagree slightly, fb leads won't  be as good as leafletted leads but they are better than canvassed customers for retention rate as they are not cold called. They see ads and respond to an ad .

I usually work on a 50 % conversion of a lead . So if an average lead costs £5 then and average customer signed up costs £10.


As an aside you can get 250 customers for free from Facebook if you play the longer game.

Last time I posted on free groups in one evening I got around 20 new customers and one evenings posting a few months ago got me over 100 enquiries resulting in about 50 new customers.

I found this not to be the case - my first 500 canvassed customers from 12 years ago are still going strong - maybe 70 of these no longer with me - thats mostly moved - still have them at new address (those in the area) some oldies who have passed on and a small minority that fell by the wayside

At currently canvassing over the last 3 months - have yet to have one cancel

FB on the other hand - don't want to pay the price - always issues with the clean - then don't normally last until clean 3

I'll stick with leaflets and canvassing

Darran

I think he’s referring to paying a canvasser, rather than doing it yourself. I have found my retention on canvassed customers fairly poor, it’s always paid in the long run though.

Stoots

  • Posts: 6060
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2022, 05:20:19 pm »

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....

How much time would you spend on gaining 250 customers on FB?

I’ve said it a million times (and you’ve disagreed nearly every time) but the thought of communicating with 250 customers on FB fills me with dread.  Absolute cranks 95% of the time.

Not nearly enough time to warrant not saving 15k in marketting costs that's for sure !

Well once you've set your ads up and your leads start to come in you need to contact them, give them a call or on messenger whatever way you want to set your leads up.

I disagree slightly, fb leads won't  be as good as leafletted leads but they are better than canvassed customers for retention rate as they are not cold called. They see ads and respond to an ad .

I usually work on a 50 % conversion of a lead . So if an average lead costs £5 then and average customer signed up costs £10.


As an aside you can get 250 customers for free from Facebook if you play the longer game.

Last time I posted on free groups in one evening I got around 20 new customers and one evenings posting a few months ago got me over 100 enquiries resulting in about 50 new customers.

I found this not to be the case - my first 500 canvassed customers from 12 years ago are still going strong - maybe 70 of these no longer with me - thats mostly moved - still have them at new address (those in the area) some oldies who have passed on and a small minority that fell by the wayside

At currently canvassing over the last 3 months - have yet to have one cancel

FB on the other hand - don't want to pay the price - always issues with the clean - then don't normally last until clean 3

I'll stick with leaflets and canvassing

Darran

This is the thing if you have a had a poor experience with leaflets, canvasser or fb ads then you are going to be of the opinion it doesnt work.

So my opinion is purely based on my own experience.

When is started out i spent about 10k on canvassed work.  I used 4 different well know companies to do this for me. At first when i got results below what i expected i blamed the initial canvasser which is why i tried others, after doing this i came to the conclusion it wasnt the canvasser at fault but more the nature of canvasssed work. I havent done a lot of canvassing myself as i was always too nervous which is why i paid others in the first place but i did do enough to pick up around 50 customers which all went the same way as the canvassed work i had paid for, again reinforcing my opinon of canvassing,

I paid 3 cleans for canvassed work, generally i would get about 50 customers at a time so a whole week of doing sometimes minging  first cleans.  Out of that 50 i would get a mix of cancellign before the first clean, some that would never pay and a good amount only lasting a couple of cleans. I never kept a record but at a guess you would be lucky to be left with 50% of it 6 months down the line.

Now saying all that, i dont think its a horrific return, in reality this work was costing me more like 6x clean value BUT the work i had canvassed is some of my most compact, best earning work and in the long run has paid off.

With leaflets i found i was only getting 1 or 2 calls per thousand delivered, i have probably had about 20k put out in total. I  stopped doing leaflets because i felt like it was much more of a gamble than canvassing. You were literally taking a handfull of money and posting it out and then sitting back with crossed fingers that the phone would ring. Quite a nerve racking time! At least with canvassing you are paying for direct results, 1 customer 1 payment, no customer no payment.  Similar with a fb ad campaign, if you have spent 50 quid and an ad isnt working you can change it up and find something that does, you dont just shell out a few grand and hope you have that control.

When it comes to facebook ads, as above ive always found 1 converted customer to cost around £10 which for me is better than paying 1x clean value. At worst ive found the retention rate to certainly be no lower than canvassing and in most cases better because much  like a leaflet they have responded to an advert and made the approach for a quote. Of course the downside compared to canvassing is the work is unlikely to be as compact.






DJW

  • Posts: 933
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2022, 07:29:04 pm »
I got 250 customers for absolutely no outlay whatsoever 🤷‍♂️

Do tell.... unless they were given to you, I would imagine that to be impossible. even if they were walk ups

It’s not impossible. It’s probably how most people used to start in this business. Door knocking.

Your outlay was your time and your energy

That doesn’t come for free in a  business

(I started by door knocking too)

Bang on, time and energy costs nothing if you have no work. I used to clean on Saturdays when people were in, clean one house then knock next door. I’ve never paid anyone to canvass and the nearest I ever came to paying for advertising was a website (now long gone - couldn’t take on more work).
This business relies very much on recommendation and word of mouth I’ve found.

robert mitchell

  • Posts: 1985
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2022, 05:01:34 pm »

But still 18k for 250 customers  :'( reckon I could get 250 customers for less than 2.5k in fb ad spend....

How much time would you spend on gaining 250 customers on FB?

I’ve said it a million times (and you’ve disagreed nearly every time) but the thought of communicating with 250 customers on FB fills me with dread.  Absolute cranks 95% of the time.

Not nearly enough time to warrant not saving 15k in marketting costs that's for sure !

Well once you've set your ads up and your leads start to come in you need to contact them, give them a call or on messenger whatever way you want to set your leads up.

I disagree slightly, fb leads won't  be as good as leafletted leads but they are better than canvassed customers for retention rate as they are not cold called. They see ads and respond to an ad .

I usually work on a 50 % conversion of a lead . So if an average lead costs £5 then and average customer signed up costs £10.


As an aside you can get 250 customers for free from Facebook if you play the longer game.

Last time I posted on free groups in one evening I got around 20 new customers and one evenings posting a few months ago got me over 100 enquiries resulting in about 50 new customers.

I found this not to be the case - my first 500 canvassed customers from 12 years ago are still going strong - maybe 70 of these no longer with me - thats mostly moved - still have them at new address (those in the area) some oldies who have passed on and a small minority that fell by the wayside

At currently canvassing over the last 3 months - have yet to have one cancel

FB on the other hand - don't want to pay the price - always issues with the clean - then don't normally last until clean 3

I'll stick with leaflets and canvassing

Darran

This is the thing if you have a had a poor experience with leaflets, canvasser or fb ads then you are going to be of the opinion it doesnt work.

So my opinion is purely based on my own experience.

When is started out i spent about 10k on canvassed work.  I used 4 different well know companies to do this for me. At first when i got results below what i expected i blamed the initial canvasser which is why i tried others, after doing this i came to the conclusion it wasnt the canvasser at fault but more the nature of canvasssed work. I havent done a lot of canvassing myself as i was always too nervous which is why i paid others in the first place but i did do enough to pick up around 50 customers which all went the same way as the canvassed work i had paid for, again reinforcing my opinon of canvassing,

I paid 3 cleans for canvassed work, generally i would get about 50 customers at a time so a whole week of doing sometimes minging  first cleans.  Out of that 50 i would get a mix of cancellign before the first clean, some that would never pay and a good amount only lasting a couple of cleans. I never kept a record but at a guess you would be lucky to be left with 50% of it 6 months down the line.

Now saying all that, i dont think its a horrific return, in reality this work was costing me more like 6x clean value BUT the work i had canvassed is some of my most compact, best earning work and in the long run has paid off.

With leaflets i found i was only getting 1 or 2 calls per thousand delivered, i have probably had about 20k put out in total. I  stopped doing leaflets because i felt like it was much more of a gamble than canvassing. You were literally taking a handfull of money and posting it out and then sitting back with crossed fingers that the phone would ring. Quite a nerve racking time! At least with canvassing you are paying for direct results, 1 customer 1 payment, no customer no payment.  Similar with a fb ad campaign, if you have spent 50 quid and an ad isnt working you can change it up and find something that does, you dont just shell out a few grand and hope you have that control.

When it comes to facebook ads, as above ive always found 1 converted customer to cost around £10 which for me is better than paying 1x clean value. At worst ive found the retention rate to certainly be no lower than canvassing and in most cases better because much  like a leaflet they have responded to an advert and made the approach for a quote. Of course the downside compared to canvassing is the work is unlikely to be as compact.

I have thought about doing facebook ads myself but dont really have any idea how to put one together .
www.ishinewindowcleaning.co.uk

The man who never made a mistake never made anything.

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 943
Re: 25k leaflets this week.
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2022, 05:59:14 pm »
I can confirm that most of what Adam is saying is bang on really.

We do lots of lead generation / lead canvassing all done via facebook/instagram/whatsapp for window cleaners all over the UK.

What we have found is that door knock canvassing is always going to be hands down the most compact work but not always the best retention.  Leafletting is always going to be the best retention work but costs more per customer acquisition.  Lead gen/canvassing done via Facebook is kind of a mix of the two.  You get higher retention than you would do with paying a door knock canvasser, and you can get higher prices too similiar to leafletting,  but its not as compact as door knock canvassing and you do have to deal with the odd messer here and there, but we have a strict process to try and eliminate them from the start.

There are pros and cons to all methods, all suit businesses differently.

Often the case is that you try something, get a bad result/experience and give up instantly and condemn said method.  I've realised that with enough time/effort/trial and error any business can seriously grow their business on a big scale with either door knock canvassing/leafletting/lead generation.