[Terry Guilford]

This is a tale for anyone "dabbling" in wood finishing.

I was asked to look at a wood floor yesterday that after sanding and finishing had developed huge gaps in between some of the side joints of the staves. I was shown photographs before going out to the floor and was informed that it was a maple, it wasn't, quite clearly from the pictures it was beech and for that reason alone alarm bells should start ringing.

The situation was that the homeowners had moved out for a month in october /november  so that a new bathroom could be installed, of course the heating was off during this period as the plumbing was being worked on and in anycase why would you heat a house when it's empty? (thats not a serious question, if you have wood floors you control heating and moisture in your house ALL the time). So before moving back in they hire a contractor to sand and finish their BEECH floor downstairs, seems logical to do that intrusive work whilst away from the house.

So the contractor sands the floor and puts on 3 coats of waterbase finish and the clients put the heat on and move back into their home. Within days the gaps start to grow until we are now at the point that some of them are 5 - 6mm wide, the floor wasn't like this when they moved out so what has happened?

A free place on our next training course for the first correct answer.

Terry

[Kev Martin]

I am no expert by any means regarding wood flooring but I am an applied structural drying specialist so my best guess would be:

By putting the heating on the relative humidity has changed in the house and altered the moisture content of the Beech and caused it to shrink.  They need to use a De Humidifier which should sort it over time and it should go back to normal in the summer!!!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

maybe the free training place should go to the 1st with the wrong answer lol.

[gwrightson]

who ever wins and perhaps doesnt want it.

can you let me have instead     

geoff

[Terry Guilford]

Half right Kevin but not close enough, I think we need to allow some time to get a more complete answer.

Terry

[Stu Roberts]

ooh, free training!? Worth a wild guess then:

I would imagine that whilst the heating was off, and due to the cold winter weather, there has been a build up of humidity and moisture within the property - the increased moisture has caused the wood to expand.  The water based finish would also add to the moisture content of the wood? So, after the job has been completed, the heating has been switched on and in turn the wooden floor has significantly dried out causing the boards to shrink in size?

Apologies Kev, pretty much expanding on your comments, but I do like the idea of a free training course....

ha ha.

[Kev Martin]

Oh well Never Mind!  Look on the bright side I have at least given someone half the answer

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Billy Russell]

Well Kev, you might get to do half the course! 

[Jamie Pearson]

Hi Terry,

You didnt say if they were engineered boards or not?

Has too much moisture from the water based finish been introduced during the refinishing.

The low temperature has allowed it to ingress rather than evaporate allowing the boards to expand possibly even bow slightly.

On drying the boards have contracted and seperated possibly breaking any adhesive used in fitting allowing them to move around.

We always check humidity/temperature prior to application of finishies. In some cases using a solvent based primer or more time allowed between each coat to reduce saturation.

[Kev Martin]

Hi Terry,

You didnt say if they were engineered boards or not?

Has too much moisture from the water based finish been introduced during the refinishing.

The low temperature has allowed it to ingress rather than evaporate allowing the boards to expand possibly even bow slightly.

On drying the boards have contracted and seperated possibly breaking any adhesive used in fitting allowing them to move around.

We always check humidity/temperature prior to application of finishies. In some cases using a solvent based primer or more time allowed between each coat to reduce saturation.

Jamie

What have I told you about taking part in competitions

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
Marblelife Ltd

[Jamie Pearson]

I need the training!

[Terry Guilford]

Good answer Stu I think I have to give it to you (damn I was hoping to get more mileage out of this!). You cannot leave a house unheated if you have timber floors. The damp creeps into the building and ALL timbers will absorb the moisture but beech is especially hygroscopic and prone to movement. So the boards push themselves apart as they expand but of course there is nothing to pull them back together as they shrink once the heating goes on. As Jamie says you should really take a moisture reading before carrying out the work, especially if the house has been empty and double especially if you are dealing with beech. The water based finish would add a bit to the problem and there is a suspicion that no primer was used. So because these finishes are very sticky (as per Mike Hamers post elsewhere) they have stuck the boards together ( a primer helps prevent sidebonding) and so instead of ending up with a lot of small gaps the the weakest joint (normally around the middle of the room) breaks leaving a big gap. There is no solution to this problem except highly flexible acrylic filler or take the floor up and re-fit it (its solid beech bonded Jamie and you're quite right I should have mentioned that).

Congratulations Stuart, email me at terry.guilford@ultimatefloorsanding.com and I will fill you in!

Thanks to everyone who posted answers.

Terry

[Jamie Pearson]

Well done Stu.

A bit of a nightmare job that one.

Having to put that amount of filler into the floor will just look nasty.
Not to mention the amount of work and cost of materials to re-finish.

Is the restorer having to pay for a re-fit Terry?

[Kev Martin]

Stu

Yep Ditto

Thats half a course you owe me for half the answer by the way

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Stu Roberts]

Ha ha, imagine my luck!! I never win anything! Well a small lie, I once won a joke competition in a comedy club about ten years ago....

Honestly, Kev's answer gave me the inspiration for mine. So Kev, I promise to get a decent order to you before the year's out... fair deal? 

Terry, I'll drop you an email. Thank you very much indeed. 

[Terry Guilford]

Jamie,

Yep I agree with all that, it won't look perfect and it will use a lot of tubes but unless they pull it all up there's little else to be done.
To be honest I hope the H/O reaches an agreement with the contractor and we have nothing to do with it, I don't believe it's an easy one to apportion blame on and I have told the H/O that.

Kevs answer was so close and because of his background you can understand why he gave that answer. I am running a competition in the NCCA magazine "Newslink" in the near future so for all you carpet cleaners out there who want to get into wood keep an eye out for that one.

Thanks again to everyone.

Terry

PS Another bloody comedian on the course.... great (see videos on training page)

[Kev Martin]

Terry

Even if I had won it I would still have made you give it to someone else mate.  I have enough on my plate with Stone Floors and my own courses.  I did look at adding wood to our portfolio a while back and even got offered a free course by Laegler in Germany but eventually I decided I have enough on my plate for the foreseeable future however, that said I have learned a little more today anyway and that is the reason I love forums

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[AshWhite]

Ha ha, imagine my luck!! I never win anything! Well a small lie, I once won a joke competition in a comedy club about ten years ago....

Honestly, Kev's answer gave me the inspiration for mine. So Kev, I promise to get a decent order to you before the year's out... fair deal? 

Terry, I'll drop you an email. Thank you very much indeed. 

The least you could do is tell the bloody joke..

[Stu Roberts]

My days of comedy were limited! you'll see why when you've read the following:

Bare in mind that it was during the time when Geri Halliwell had just finished a brief relationship with Chris Evans.

What's ginger and smells of old spice?

Chris Evans' ****!

Simple, yet a little dated now..... Ahem, I'll get me coat. *walks out of forum*. Lol.

Terry, you wood never had guessed!

Sorry, I'll stop now.