Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 03:22:21 pm »
Kevin, are you implying that the melting snow has created enough moisture to soak into the ground around the home and migrate through the entirety of the whole floor?

Dave

No I am not implying it!  I am stating that is what happened!  Tonnes of snow melting into the ground around the house saturated the substrate then came up through the only tiled floor in the house without a damp proof membrane and caused the efflorescence!

Or do you have another credible explanation???

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

StoneSealersHQ

  • Posts: 62
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 03:34:26 pm »
Doesn't sound possible. Having worked on 100's of Victorian floors, we've never seen anything like this across the whole floor.

Sounds more like the dwelling of your sodium hydroxide based cleaning product has been absorbed into the porous unglazed tile. The water dilution has evaporated leaving behind the heavier chemical to dry out and crystalise into the salts the product is derived from. We see this all the time following up from other 'restorers'.

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2013, 07:09:51 pm »
Doesn't sound possible. Having worked on 100's of Victorian floors, we've never seen anything like this across the whole floor.

Sounds more like the dwelling of your sodium hydroxide based cleaning product has been absorbed into the porous unglazed tile. The water dilution has evaporated leaving behind the heavier chemical to dry out and crystalise into the salts the product is derived from. We see this all the time following up from other 'restorers'.

Dave

1.  The porosity of a Victorian tile is very low.
2.  The guy involved is very very experienced, he has done 1000's of Victorian and Edwardian floors and has in excess of 20 years experience as one of the best tilers i have ever met.
3.  He works in very small areas, vacs up and rinses very quickly and uses a floor drier!
4.  Finally, did you read the initial post???  Clearly not because even I don't know what he cleaned it with so where did you get the phrase "your product". and whilst your reading it look at the time frames involved

So thats that theory out the window then!!!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

StoneSealersHQ

  • Posts: 62
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2013, 08:01:29 pm »
Kevin,

Without being argumentative, the initial post doesn't mention a cleaning product only a specific sealer. I apologise if I've assumed the cleaning product to be one of yours. I was more interested in the rational behind the determination of the fault.

Victorian tiles are porous and laid on a porous substrate, or at least porous enough to want to absorb water and chemicals at a rate unsuitable for dwelling with a chemical. Such practices as pre-wetting and dwelling of chemicals are just asking for problems. We've even seen similar problems on these floors when one guy has worked alone, by scrubbing, stopping and vacuuming up. Be it too much water or chemical the after effect is very similar.

Why does the salt take days to appear? Because the alkaline ingredients of the cleaner more dense than the readily evaporated water used for dilution, rinsing, pre-wetting. As the water evaporates up through the tile body, salts deposits are left behind, naturally these deposits are going to be minute, they'd have to be to pass through the pores of a tile, but they accumulate.

The application of a sealer no matter how good it is, will impede this moisture transfer at some level. Somewhat akin to putting klingfilm over a plant, the moisture will escape but slowly, leaving behind a moisture residue.

Personally I wouldn't advise leaving a customer with an unsealed floor for any longer than absolutely necessary, can they be trusted? Look how they treat their floors before we restore them :(

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2013, 08:31:03 pm »
Dave

Lets leave it at that!  I don't have the time or the inclination to keep anwsering you because you forget I to have restored 100's of these floors some with serious existing efflorescence problems and never had an issue with sealing them.  So lets agree to disagree, you do it your way and I will continue to do it my tried and tested way.

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tilinglogistics
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2013, 09:09:13 pm »
It sounds like the salts from the cement coming through, and as said previously because of the cold it has taken a while for things to dry out, did it just wipe away?
Bill, I take it that you are still a Tile Doctor?
I note that you like to use Aqua Mix products (as I do) why is it that Russ hasn't given you the boot too?
I asked you about what products you use to remove slate seal (I am still waiting your response) and I get the heave-ho from Tile Doctor?? Not that I am bothered as I think they are over priced and under performing produtcs.

B Bailey

  • Posts: 198
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 09:44:56 pm »
Hi Rob,
Yes I am an affiliate to the tile doctor.
I don't understand why you think Russ would give me the boot.
We have had our own issues in the past but I'm sure if you asked Russ, I am quite open about what I do, but I adhere to his program and expect the same from him.
Since I have been with his network I have only ever used his products even for work outside of the tile doctor enquiry system, and all my accounts can verify this if it means that much to you.
 I haven't written many posts so it was easy to look back to see what I have written and I haven't mentioned Aquamix products once, although I agree they are a good brand, because this is what Russ used to provide under his name, which he was open about.
I can only find one post that you asked me a question and it was about a Victorian floor which I gave a reply to you,  that Kevin had given the advice.
So how can you associate me to you getting the boot from TD network.
As for your other comments about TD, you should be sending them to Russ not me.


John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2013, 04:57:07 pm »
Melting snow has the effect of raising the water table. This will affect any floors or walls without suitable barriers to the moisture ingress.

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Who Can Guess Why This Happened
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2013, 09:15:41 am »
Melting snow has the effect of raising the water table. This will affect any floors or walls without suitable barriers to the moisture ingress.

John

I totally agree!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics