[William McCafferty]

Martin

What you are after is the same that every cleaner on here wants, but it takes time and you have to learn from your mistakes that you will make.

I have, on and off been cleaning windows for over 30 years and this lastest venture is only 10 years old.

Like you I wanted all the cream and the easy life, but to achive this you need to learn, make mistakes and learn from them.

But all of this takes time, after 10 years I am at that stage but for 8 years I was a bit relaxed, so maybe it could have been done sooner.

If I was you I would go out with a cleaner and see what the sharp end of the operation is all about, my offer still stands by the way.

[stresslesscleaning]

Small


Thanks for that.

When i first started sniffing around here (2003-2005), most of the WC's were Trad and WFP was in its infancy.  There were often lots of fights between to 2 on here over what was best method.

Around 2007-8, i think the numbers had equalized and a Franchise was around £15000 which included a van and the monthlies to go with it.  The economy was quite buoyant and it still seemed very attractive to become a WC.  I recall reading an article in the national press about office workers giving up there 9-5 and becoming WFP window cleaners because they could earn £50k per annum in London.

One of the things i think about now is that there appears to be far more WFP than Trad on here but also a lot of new entrants and i wondered if the influx of new starters who can begin with a trolley for £500ish and the high unemployment rate has affected the rate you can charge for a clean or is there still room for more window cleaners?

Taxi Drivers are hammered, they aren't earning anything at present.

Martin

[William McCafferty]

Martin

With window cleaning its all about skill and knowledge, yes its true that there are many newbies just like you are one.

But like nature, all do not survive, some just buy some fancy equipment and think its a magic wand from "Harry Potter"  and hey presto clean windows and £5 thank you.

They also seem to start when the weather is nice ond sunny, but soon the winter sets in and its a diffentent game cleaning windows in sub zero temputures.

So what happens to all these newbies, just like in the days of the ladders the wilt away into the wilderness.

Franchising seems to be the next step that established window cleaners are looking at, it's the same progress that the trade went though 10 years ago with wfp.

A newbie starting up is still going to make mistakes and they will take many months or years normally to achieve what some cleaners are achieving nowadays, forums are great for finding help and advice, but sometimes the answers differ greatly or the answers you want are not what you will get.

Personally I see that although there are a lot of cleaners, there is room for a lot more, I believe that in the near future the industry will change, it will become more customer friendly not at the window cleaners bequest, that is why I feel that posters get attacked when they post topics that these cleaners don't like, it just the same as the agurments when wfp became more common place as a method to clean cleaners.

I know someone who years ago thought that computers were a fad, the internet was useless and they would soon dissappear into history, he still believes the same today.

[dazmond]

i either leave a SAE with a second class stamp or bank details to pay by bank transfer on bigger good paying accounts that are away from my normal work.

i still do cash collections on big chunks of my round as i have a lot of very compact work in the same area which is only 10 mins drive from where i live.its great for cashflow!

im very well established though(been going 18 years!).

i only text/phone a handful of customers every month the night before for access as i like to keep my work as flexible as possible as due to the weather you cant always get round the next day.plus sometimes i feel like finishing early the next day or take the complete day off!it saves less hassle in the long run i find!

dont forget to get a contact number from your customers that pay online/SAE as they sometimes forget to pay and need a gentle reminder sometimes!

loads of my customers pay me on day of clean most days as well so my collecting is only an hour or so once or twice a week!

it works well for me.i never clean more than twice without payment then if i get "bumped" for the money its not a large amount to lose!!

i always have a rolling debt from month to month but i keep it managable!!


best wishes


dazmond

[robertphil]

martin-you didnt actually fall all those years ago . Everybody new on ladders has a few scares . Dont be put off ,you should get the ladders off your Dad and hit the streets tomorrow. Sure it will take bottle but thats what this trade is about .

 Those with no bottle dont last long in it.
 

[William McCafferty]

martin-you didnt actually fall all those years ago . Everybody new on ladders has a few scares . Dont be put off ,you should get the ladders off your Dad and hit the streets tomorrow. Sure it will take bottle but thats what this trade is about .

 Those with no bottle dont last long in it.
 

I cannot believe you have said that, ladder safety does not come down to having "bottle".

[robertphil]

maybe i wrote it wrongly,what i Meant to say was that if you go the trad route,it takes a bit of bottle . in my firm i split the work ,somebody does the downs only and somebody else does the ups only. i personally do the ups only ,on ladders .

[Small but perfectley formed]

Go to some affluent areas and start knocking invest in polo short / sweatshirt with martins window cleaning or what ever you are going to trade as.
Good luck and get knocking !

[Carl2009]

Martin,

Seems you've been through the wars a bit, but you've come out the other side and are looking to the future. Good luck to ya.

Now, there's a lot of lads on here who are talking a lot of sense, so i'd say listen to them all and take the best bits of advice that work for you. For what its worth here's my two pennies worth.

You're over complicating things. You won't have time to read people your rules when you are out canvassing or you get stopped on the street and you get asked 'How much do you charge'.

Here's a bit from previous posts of mine:

I started April 2009 from scratch. I knocked doors for 3 months, wore out a pair of boots and had bleeding knuckles in doing so, but haven't knocked a door since. Total advertising spend so far: a tenner.

I knocked the door and said "Hi my name's Carl Welsby, I live in Crymych. I was wondering if you had or were in need of a regular window cleaner?". If they said they did have one, I thanked them for their time and walked away. If they said they had one and they asked me to quote I asked them why they wanted me to quote. If it was because they were not happy with them or they were unreliable then I quoted. If it was because they were looking to drive down their spend I declined, explaining I didn't want to take another mans business ( I also knew that if I got the custie and someone else came and undercut me then i'd be out: such custies aren't worth having imo). It will get back to the other windies and you won't put their back up (unless they are nutters).

My advice is:

No-one owns "a patch"

Don't quote if they have a windie UNLESS they are unhappy with them

Always stop and talk to other windies or at least honk at them and give em a wave. I have one close to me who has given me work and i've dropped off a slab of beer in return. It's better to be mates.

A price war hurts everyone. I don't want to be busy as hell earning begger all.

Don't price too low, but deliver a first class clean that gives good value for money. If in doubt add a couple of quid to the price.

Do any clean you can at first, but slowly dump the poor payers and ones where they don't clean up the dog poop. It's a great feeling to be able to chuck custies who won't respect you.

Do the occasional freebie - garage doors etc. BUT tell the custie you've done it so you get the credit!

Get a website. But get your van signwritten first - best way to get new business.

And for Gawd's sake say a smiley hello to people who pass you as you work - you'll be amazed how many ask you "How much do you charge".


And here's a bit about postage:

I've just worked out that i've spent £224 on postage in 2010/11 and £108 so far in 2011/12 (and I still have over 200 stamps left and year end is 5th April 2012, so i'll easily see that out).

This averages as £166 per year on stamps (at .36 p per stamp thats 461 payments).
Labels costs me £18.90 per year
Envelopes £20.32 per year
Total: £205.22 per year

Cost of receiving a payment is therefore £205.22 / 461 payments = .45 pence per  payment.

New costs, post proposed increase will be: £299.26 / 461 payments = .65 pence per payment (assumng 55% rise in stamp cosy and 7% rise in cost of lables and envelopes)


From my point of view I don't call people the night before, unless I need access - gives them chance to say no.

[Bay View WCS]

Hi Small

Maybe you're right but don't you think it goes back to the canvassing and the sales pitch?  Basically inspiring confidence and justifying the higher rate.  

I have this vision of me knocking doors, asking the basic question, have you got a window cleaner and the moment they say no and that they want one, start my sales process off which will include not telling them the price until:-

1.0 I've surveyed the property.  During the survey, I want to ask myself the question, do I really want to clean this house and if so, at what price do I want and what special conditions might I have unique to this house.

2.0 If i'm prepared to clean the windows then i'd engage with the customer and explain these conditions.  If they agreed then i'd explain my standard terms (some of which i lifted off this site when i was researching window cleaning previously)

3.0 Weather - Will continue to work through the rain. – The pure water we use leaves the windows free of water marks and blemishes.

4.0 Settlement- If you happen to be out when we clean your windows, we will leave a pre-paid envelope along with a payment advice slip.  All we ask you do is send payment in the form of a cheque made payable to Martin XXXXXXX within 5 working days of the clean.

5.0 Health and Safety - Due to Health and Safety reasons, we will not climb ladders above ground floor.  It’s too risky and we cannot obtain life insurance to cover us in the event of a fall resulting in death.  For this reason, we use the latest window cleaning technology.

6.0 The latest pure water window cleaning technology - The latest window cleaning technology uses pure water which is manufactured by us on the back of our vans.  Pure water is “Pure”; it has zero impurities which means it leaves no blemishes, water marks or streaks.

7.0 Results - However, due to years of “build up” from washing up liquids, paint, dirt, dust etc, 2 or even 3 washes may be required before you observe the full benefits.

8.0 Satisfaction Guaranteed - If you are unhappy with the results, we have no problem in returning to remedy the matter and this forms the basis of our “satisfaction guaranteed” policy.

9.0 Frequency - Our callage pattern will see us clean your windows every 4 weeks or there abouts.  If you feel that you would prefer to have your windows cleaned every 6 or even 8 weeks because you believe the visits to be too frequent, too clean or because you need to be prudent, then please discuss this with us at our next planned visit.

10 Surcharge - Fewer visits during the year will mean that your windows become harder to clean than would be the case with a 4 weekly visit.  This means that an additional charge will be levied because of the extra time needed to clean your windows.  This will be discussed with you at the time of notification.


Now i lifted most of that from a post in this forum a few years ago.  I amended it here and there but in my view, if the customer listens to me taking them through that list and then i state the price i want and they agree to it, then i'll take them on, otherwise, they can wait for the next window cleaner to come along.  I'll just move on rapid.

Of course, if they appoint me, i'll nurture them over time to protect the business, basically make them a friend in some way, tell them i was looking out for intruders and stuff like that.  To me, i think I would try and get an emotional attachment from them so that if a window cleaner came and canvassed them in future and offered their service for £5 when i'd quoted £10, I have a good chance of keeping them due to loyalty etc.  I also believe that £120 per annum aint a lot of money for a good friendly service.  Of course, I'm hoping to get the £40 houses LOL

What do you think?

Kind regards


Martin

Stressless

You obviously have some experience in analysing processes from your previous employment but, as stated by others, it is possible to overcomplicate matter by examining things to the nth degree.  I am also guilty of this - leading to plenty of thinking and very little of the doing.

You really need to stop thinking so much and get out there to see the lie of the land.  Whilst window cleaning can seem attractive with the monies that can be earned it will take time and a significant amount of effort to get there - analysis alone will get you nowhere.

I would also suggest that you need to lower your expectations somewhat for years 1/2.  It is frankly a little foolish and perhaps a little naive in respect of point 1.0 above ( do I really want to clean this house ).  In my (humble and newbie) opinion you should not really be considering turning down a job while you are starting out - each new job brings experience - even if that is having the bottle to explain to the custy that you cannot clean there again because of the hideous amounts of dog sh!te all over the garden.  When starting I got all the rubbish custies who had been dumped by other windies - it really pi$$ed me off at the time but I considered it a learning exercise and over time I have dumped/culled/educated and this is still an ongoing process - for me at least.

Your Utopian model of canvassing will not cut it - certainly not until you are well established and better versed in the process - and that will only come with practice and not staring at a page cutting and pasting a word document for the best way to canvass.

Maybe I have it wrong and perhaps you have the luxury of being able to canvass in the way you suggest - if that's true then I take my hat off to you but I think necessity is the best kick up the 'arris anyone can have.

Take the offers you have and get out there to see if is for you - then canvass to see whether for you the paper method will translate into a viable business model.  I wish you luck because when it's going good being a self employed windy beats any of the jobs I've had.


And back to the OP, I leave a payment slip which has my bank details for a transfer and my email for a PayPal payment.  I still call to collect on around 50% ; for those that pay by cheque I leave an addressed envelope with no stamp - no-one has complained about the lack of a stamp

Cheers

Tom

[Blue City Cleaning]

Stressless - wow you write a lot 

[SimonBurton]

And on top of postage, envelopes you have the cost of paying into the bank if its a cheque......

[ben M]

And on top of postage, envelopes you have the cost of paying into the bank if its a cheque......

only if you have a business account...

[Dougaldum]

Now I've negated the water costs concern, I've shifted my attention to other areas of my business plan and in particular, I've been thinking about the costs associated with collecting money.

Since i don't want to revisit a site to collect payment, i decided to leave a pre-paid envelope for the customer to settle their bill.

Now I've got a Franking machine for my other little venture and the cost of a second class stamp is 31p but it has to be used within 24 hours of it being printed otherwise it becomes null and void so it seems i wont be able to use this.  However, a normal second class stamp is 50p and using some arbitrary numbers, say 10 customers per day with 20 days in a 4 week callage plan, it would cost at the most, £100 per month excluding envelopes.  Now that is a fairly high cost so Ii suppose the best way to treat this cost is add it on to the window cleaning charge.

But, I see some of you offer the Paypal method of paying and i know that this is free of charge if the customer select the button indicating  that they're sending the money to a friend and that its not a payment for a service or product.  For me, this has got to be the way forward except that i'm thinking most of the customers will either be seniors and not know the internet and others who will just be lazy and not pay.

So, i was wondering, for those that offer Paypal, how many customers do you manage to shift onto this payment method and how many actually pay this way?  Whats their reaction basically?  And what other technology methods might you offer?

I see that there are other ways of taking money using mobile phones.  Anyone heard of or use this method?

Kind regards

Martin

stamps are100% against tax and you can spend more time doing other things more important