[stresslesscleaning]

Now I've negated the water costs concern, I've shifted my attention to other areas of my business plan and in particular, I've been thinking about the costs associated with collecting money.

Since i don't want to revisit a site to collect payment, i decided to leave a pre-paid envelope for the customer to settle their bill.

Now I've got a Franking machine for my other little venture and the cost of a second class stamp is 31p but it has to be used within 24 hours of it being printed otherwise it becomes null and void so it seems i wont be able to use this.  However, a normal second class stamp is 50p and using some arbitrary numbers, say 10 customers per day with 20 days in a 4 week callage plan, it would cost at the most, £100 per month excluding envelopes.  Now that is a fairly high cost so Ii suppose the best way to treat this cost is add it on to the window cleaning charge.

But, I see some of you offer the Paypal method of paying and i know that this is free of charge if the customer select the button indicating  that they're sending the money to a friend and that its not a payment for a service or product.  For me, this has got to be the way forward except that i'm thinking most of the customers will either be seniors and not know the internet and others who will just be lazy and not pay.

So, i was wondering, for those that offer Paypal, how many customers do you manage to shift onto this payment method and how many actually pay this way?  Whats their reaction basically?  And what other technology methods might you offer?

I see that there are other ways of taking money using mobile phones.  Anyone heard of or use this method?

Kind regards

Martin

[William McCafferty]

Martin

a couple of more questions you need to think about andthe anser to some of them will answer to those will answer your original question.

How will your customers know when you are going to turn up?
What will you do if it is really bad weather on that day?or you are on holiday?
How will you access the back of the house?, especially if you have to go though the house or garage?

I always call/text the night before so all these questions are covered and answered and in over 90% of the cases I get paid on the day of the clean, even when no one is at home.

[Crystal-clear]

I used to provide stamps now stopped it, 3 customers questioned it I told em it's too expensive and that posting a cheque is now optional online payments are the way to go most have converted already and I made a massive saving per year.

Hydro,do you really text and let everyone know night before? What a nightmare you need to avoid crap like that especially if you plan to lease work imagine the horror of doing your admin and his admin each day,also weather don't give them the option of cleaning if weather is good you choose that!

[Total shine cleaning services]

I also phone/text the night before but 80% of my customers I do have access issues with, I always leave a payment slip and it states " to keep our prices competitive we no longer do collections, please pay online or post a cheque". obviously followed by bank and postage details, works very well

Graham

[William McCafferty]

On average I clean roughly 15 propertys a day, any commercial or invoice customer are not called or texed

with the others I call/text, ideally I would just like to text as phoning can be time consuming especially if they don't answer the phone, I am wary of answer machines.

on my mobile phone I have a set message all I need to do is input all the mobile numbers and press the go button.

This takes me no longer than 5 minutes to do, and I have 24 hours in which to find that 5 minutes.

I have also asked chris at aworka to add to his programme a function which will automaticly send a sms message to my customers the day before the clean.

So by the time a cleaner who collects leaves his house and starts his van up, I have already informed all my customers that I am coming the next day weather permitting and they will leave side gates open and the money out for me.

[stresslesscleaning]

Hi Hydro

Thank you for the reply.  I did see your kind invitation to accompany you on the poles and i've made a note to contact you during the week.

In the mean time, and this will probably sound controversial and invite some criticism but please bare with me because i'm only speaking from a theoretical point of view.

I don't want to be a busy fool (and please fellas don't take that the wrong way) and what I mean by this is that i want to minimise the amount of work i have to do outside of canvassing and cleaning.  So, texting the night before is something I just don't want to do, same as revisiting a site, i just don't want to do that either.  From a practical point of view, i just might have to but only getting on the job/tools will tell me that.

What i am aiming or planning on doing, is conditioning customers to work my way.  And in particular, get this message across to them before i put a brush against their windows.  So for example, i'm only interested in taking a customer on if its worth my while and that means finding or cherry picking houses that enable me the fastest egress/regress i can find.  I don't want to be climbing across garages, i don't really want to be climbing over gates or fences but i will do it if the money is right, which brings me on to my overall approach which is:-

Maximise revenue and manage costs, simple business equation.

So, lets say (this is my actual thinking now and i could be wrong) that the typical price for a house is £7.50 but a desperate cleaner does it for £5.00.  In my view, he can have it.  I'm not interested in cleaning a house, (it might be an awkward one too), for £5.00 when the appropriate rate is £7.50.  What I want to do, is keep knocking doors until i find the house that will pay £10.00 and will either pay me electronically or by post and fall in line with the way I want to work.

Forgive me if i'm out of my depth here but i think like this because i only have so many working hours in a typical working week and I want to get paid promptly for offering a polite, sincere, value added and reliable customer service/experience.  I think there are people out there who will pay for what we believe to be over the odds, but for the customer, it's the going rate on account of the fact that they know no better.  I just need to find them.  I know they are there because there are more houses than there are window cleaners.

So, for me, its about adding value, managing costs and increasing the share of the wallet, good quality sales basically.

Having said all that, I will probably have to have some sort of communication with the customer prior to arrival so texting or emailing  will probably be a requirement, i just don't want to do it is all.  Unless I can bulk communicate in one go.  IE, send one message to all customers on the callage plan.

Maybe I'm dreaming of a utopian round, maybe there's no such thing.

Oh, the other thing that influenced my thinking is the window cleaner who used to clean my ex's house.  Five bed detached, Solihull, on the Warwick Road.  She was a high earner and never thought about how much things costed, she just wanted a stress free convenient life.  The window cleaner charged her £40 and told her it would take an hour.  For about 3 months on the trot, i was at her house on my day off and looked after her dogs and it always coincided with his visit.  I watched him for that hour and he spent a good 10 minutes rolling a fAg and smoking it.  It's one of the reasons i started to think about window cleaning.  I thought, blimey, he's on a good earner, £40 a pop.  He had several houses on the row and never appeared harried, took everything in his stride.

So, what do you think of that then?

Kind regards

Martin

[Crystal-clear]

Yea I know what you are doing hydro,cos I have a percentage of work that
I need to do that it aint as small as I wish it was maybe 35% we need to try and eliminate any notifications if possible because customers feel they have the option of saying no or it's as if we are asking them permission , and they won't understand that it's priced at regular,or just worst things like,my gate was locked,which means I didn't want you to come why did you clean my front or jump over the gate?

Can go on say it rains a bit you take the day off customer waiting later on you are to blame for not turning up or cancelng so they cancel you.

It's just a recipe for Disaster I think you know what I am trying to get at here.

[Small but perfectley formed]

Stressless that sounds a top plan window cleaner utopia it can be achieved but will take years .

[wightsurf]

I only call /txt about 15 custys per month.
I call at the property clean and post a SAE into there letter box Without a stamp.
All new custys get a choice of payment options from the start
BACS
Paypal
Cheque
or cash at the door if there in.
Simple realy

[William McCafferty]

Hi Crystal

I have been doing this since I first started and I suppose I am used to it, but I did work out the other month what would happen If I did not call/text the night before, if they are all out I would lose over £800 every month, I would still be able to clean the fronts but the backs would be a no no, I have one house that I charge £80 for, the front is only worth £10 all the glass is at the back and the only way to gain access is for them is to activate the electric garage.

A lot of cleaners seem to think that calling/texting the night before is asking for permission, its not, I am stating that i am coming tomorrow,I am not seeing if its ok with them.

All the ones who are at work will then leave the access to the back open, thereby doubling my income and they will leave the payment, which saves me time and expense in collecting, it's also great for my cash flow.

For the customers who are at home, they might want to know what time I will be there, they do have lives to live and waiting in for the window cleaners should not be a prority for them, so with these if they ask i will say it will be am or pm, because I will know roughly anyway.

and sometimes they might have to go out all day, for these if I can, I will add them onto another day in the week, if I won't be anywere near them again that week then I will just clean the front and they will leave payment for that instead.

and yes at times you get some customers who will say not this time, normally with these it because they have a big bill to pay or they are going on holiday, and I will except this of course you will get the ones who keep saying these and normally after the 3rd time, I will remove them from the round and inform them to call me when they want their windows cleaned again, of course this incurs the 1st clean price, but they are happy with this.

In my years at this game there are 2 types of customer, one is the one who wants a window cleaner on a regualr basis, the other is just interested in clean windows, and when they feel they are dirty, that is when they want them cleaned again.

[stresslesscleaning]

Hi Small

Maybe you're right but don't you think it goes back to the canvassing and the sales pitch?  Basically inspiring confidence and justifying the higher rate.  

I have this vision of me knocking doors, asking the basic question, have you got a window cleaner and the moment they say no and that they want one, start my sales process off which will include not telling them the price until:-

1.0 I've surveyed the property.  During the survey, I want to ask myself the question, do I really want to clean this house and if so, at what price do I want and what special conditions might I have unique to this house.

2.0 If i'm prepared to clean the windows then i'd engage with the customer and explain these conditions.  If they agreed then i'd explain my standard terms (some of which i lifted off this site when i was researching window cleaning previously)

3.0 Weather - Will continue to work through the rain. – The pure water we use leaves the windows free of water marks and blemishes.

4.0 Settlement- If you happen to be out when we clean your windows, we will leave a pre-paid envelope along with a payment advice slip.  All we ask you do is send payment in the form of a cheque made payable to Martin XXXXXXX within 5 working days of the clean.

5.0 Health and Safety - Due to Health and Safety reasons, we will not climb ladders above ground floor.  It’s too risky and we cannot obtain life insurance to cover us in the event of a fall resulting in death.  For this reason, we use the latest window cleaning technology.

6.0 The latest pure water window cleaning technology - The latest window cleaning technology uses pure water which is manufactured by us on the back of our vans.  Pure water is “Pure”; it has zero impurities which means it leaves no blemishes, water marks or streaks.

7.0 Results - However, due to years of “build up” from washing up liquids, paint, dirt, dust etc, 2 or even 3 washes may be required before you observe the full benefits.

8.0 Satisfaction Guaranteed - If you are unhappy with the results, we have no problem in returning to remedy the matter and this forms the basis of our “satisfaction guaranteed” policy.

9.0 Frequency - Our callage pattern will see us clean your windows every 4 weeks or there abouts.  If you feel that you would prefer to have your windows cleaned every 6 or even 8 weeks because you believe the visits to be too frequent, too clean or because you need to be prudent, then please discuss this with us at our next planned visit.

10 Surcharge - Fewer visits during the year will mean that your windows become harder to clean than would be the case with a 4 weekly visit.  This means that an additional charge will be levied because of the extra time needed to clean your windows.  This will be discussed with you at the time of notification.


Now i lifted most of that from a post in this forum a few years ago.  I amended it here and there but in my view, if the customer listens to me taking them through that list and then i state the price i want and they agree to it, then i'll take them on, otherwise, they can wait for the next window cleaner to come along.  I'll just move on rapid.

Of course, if they appoint me, i'll nurture them over time to protect the business, basically make them a friend in some way, tell them i was looking out for intruders and stuff like that.  To me, i think I would try and get an emotional attachment from them so that if a window cleaner came and canvassed them in future and offered their service for £5 when i'd quoted £10, I have a good chance of keeping them due to loyalty etc.  I also believe that £120 per annum aint a lot of money for a good friendly service.  Of course, I'm hoping to get the £40 houses LOL

What do you think?

Kind regards


Martin

[William McCafferty]

Martin

That sounds like a plan, but you have forgotten one small but important bit, what type of cleaning will you do.

For instance yesterday I did a 1st clean, the house was a semi detached, it had 2 bays at the front ( 1 bedroom 1 livingroom ) it also had another bedroom window and a porch, the back was 2 bedroom double windows, double patio doors and the kicthen door. the side had 3 smallest windows.

at the front above and below the bay window they had white plastic facia boards that was green, the also had low level guttering around the lower bay and porch, which was also green.

How would you clean this house and what would you do? and what would you charge for the 1st clean and the 4 weekly charge

[Nameless Drudge]

Virtual window cleaning is as far as you are going to get!,i`ll have a wager on it.

[Ian101]

Hi Small

Maybe you're right but don't you think it goes back to the canvassing and the sales pitch?  Basically inspiring confidence and justifying the higher rate.  

I have this vision of me knocking doors, asking the basic question, have you got a window cleaner and the moment they say no and that they want one, start my sales process off which will include not telling them the price until:-

1.0 I've surveyed the property.  During the survey, I want to ask myself the question, do I really want to clean this house and if so, at what price do I want and what special conditions might I have unique to this house.

2.0 If i'm prepared to clean the windows then i'd engage with the customer and explain these conditions.  If they agreed then i'd explain my standard terms (some of which i lifted off this site when i was researching window cleaning previously)

3.0 Weather - Will continue to work through the rain. – The pure water we use leaves the windows free of water marks and blemishes.

4.0 Settlement- If you happen to be out when we clean your windows, we will leave a pre-paid envelope along with a payment advice slip.  All we ask you do is send payment in the form of a cheque made payable to Martin XXXXXXX within 5 working days of the clean.

5.0 Health and Safety - Due to Health and Safety reasons, we will not climb ladders above ground floor.  It’s too risky and we cannot obtain life insurance to cover us in the event of a fall resulting in death.  For this reason, we use the latest window cleaning technology.

6.0 The latest pure water window cleaning technology - The latest window cleaning technology uses pure water which is manufactured by us on the back of our vans.  Pure water is “Pure”; it has zero impurities which means it leaves no blemishes, water marks or streaks.

7.0 Results - However, due to years of “build up” from washing up liquids, paint, dirt, dust etc, 2 or even 3 washes may be required before you observe the full benefits.

8.0 Satisfaction Guaranteed - If you are unhappy with the results, we have no problem in returning to remedy the matter and this forms the basis of our “satisfaction guaranteed” policy.

9.0 Frequency - Our callage pattern will see us clean your windows every 4 weeks or there abouts.  If you feel that you would prefer to have your windows cleaned every 6 or even 8 weeks because you believe the visits to be too frequent, too clean or because you need to be prudent, then please discuss this with us at our next planned visit.

10 Surcharge - Fewer visits during the year will mean that your windows become harder to clean than would be the case with a 4 weekly visit.  This means that an additional charge will be levied because of the extra time needed to clean your windows.  This will be discussed with you at the time of notification.


Now i lifted most of that from a post in this forum a few years ago.  I amended it here and there but in my view, if the customer listens to me taking them through that list and then i state the price i want and they agree to it, then i'll take them on, otherwise, they can wait for the next window cleaner to come along.  I'll just move on rapid.

Of course, if they appoint me, i'll nurture them over time to protect the business, basically make them a friend in some way, tell them i was looking out for intruders and stuff like that.  To me, i think I would try and get an emotional attachment from them so that if a window cleaner came and canvassed them in future and offered their service for £5 when i'd quoted £10, I have a good chance of keeping them due to loyalty etc.  I also believe that £120 per annum aint a lot of money for a good friendly service.  Of course, I'm hoping to get the £40 houses LOL

What do you think?

Kind regards


Martin

Have you started window cleaning yet ??

If not I think you may be heading towards over thinking.

Best phrase on hear from Phil Hill was Less thinking and more doing .......... or summit like that

[Granny]

Stressless
If you really want to be stressless just go out and clean some windows and stop thinking about it.
You will find your questions answered - your propositions evaluated and expectations realised.
It's not far removed from  the oldest profession -  simply stated - "Do you want your windows cleaned?" -"How much will you pay for it?"
Get on with it.
G.

[stresslesscleaning]

Hydro

Good question mate and i don't profess to know the technicals as you'll soon read when I reply to another comment on this thread in a bit.

But, I can say this:-

1.0 I've got to think that my time as a window cleaner will eventually be worth between £30 - £40 per hour.  That's my target anyway.  So, if i think it will take me an hour to complete on the first visit, £30 would be my quote and i'd hope to get the house cleaned in 30-40 minutes on subsequent visits, for the same £30.

2.0 I think i'd do WFP for the tops and Trad for the bottoms but i'm hoping i'll be guided by the experts on here over time.  It might come down to personal preference but whatever seems to be the quickest, most profitable, offers best results and perceived value add by the customer will be my guiding principles.

3.0 The fascia boards don't seem to be a problem unless they need a special product to get the grime off.  This is where i need experience but i'm assuming it would be similar to a conservatory roof?  Accessible by WFP and relatively easy to clean?  However, if its a stubborn stain and needs a product, fine, but if it needs me to climb into an awkward position and risk my neck, I aint doing it, i'd rather walk away from the job and look for the diamonds elsewhere.  That's just me....

Why have I got this attitude?  Cos i've climbed previously and nearly fell and it aint a nice experience, your life flashes in front of you and your pants end up with a brown stain on them.  I've also footed ladders for my dad over the years and i've watched him work from them.  Ye's, he's a nutter and I'm not.

4.0  I'm puzzled by the low level guttering although i've seen it before.  I think my ex's house had a similar layout.  To be honest, I don't know, i haven't got a clue and this might be  the type of house that i might walk away from whilst i looked for the ones i could do.  On the other hand, maybe the guttering would/could work to your advantage?

Hydro, how much did you quote, how long did it take and what were the awkward bits?

Martin

[evo]

Hi Crystal

I have been doing this since I first started and I suppose I am used to it, but I did work out the other month what would happen If I did not call/text the night before, if they are all out I would lose over £800 every month, I would still be able to clean the fronts but the backs would be a no no, I have one house that I charge £80 for, the front is only worth £10 all the glass is at the back and the only way to gain access is for them is to activate the electric garage.

A lot of cleaners seem to think that calling/texting the night before is asking for permission, its not, I am stating that i am coming tomorrow,I am not seeing if its ok with them.

All the ones who are at work will then leave the access to the back open, thereby doubling my income and they will leave the payment, which saves me time and expense in collecting, it's also great for my cash flow.

For the customers who are at home, they might want to know what time I will be there, they do have lives to live and waiting in for the window cleaners should not be a prority for them, so with these if they ask i will say it will be am or pm, because I will know roughly anyway.

and sometimes they might have to go out all day, for these if I can, I will add them onto another day in the week, if I won't be anywere near them again that week then I will just clean the front and they will leave payment for that instead.

and yes at times you get some customers who will say not this time, normally with these it because they have a big bill to pay or they are going on holiday, and I will except this of course you will get the ones who keep saying these and normally after the 3rd time, I will remove them from the round and inform them to call me when they want their windows cleaned again, of course this incurs the 1st clean price, but they are happy with this.

In my years at this game there are 2 types of customer, one is the one who wants a window cleaner on a regualr basis, the other is just interested in clean windows, and when they feel they are dirty, that is when they want them cleaned again.

hi Pure HYDRO Cleaners i do the same as you and have done so for the last 10 years with very little problems at all. its only been since this April i have stopped cheques all together so no back charges as well.

 wish i had stopped the cheques years ago well happy now.  

[stresslesscleaning]

Chaps

I'm glad you're all engaging with me, it's really appreciated and i'll explain why:-

I've stalked this forum on and off for at least 8 years, initially as a guest and a few years ago, i registered as a user.

When I was 15, my parents were getting divorced so i ran away as a kind of protest and joined the fair ground.  Helped Jimmy Chipperfields brother pack down in Cannon Hill Park and went with the crew to the Goose Fair in Newcastle.

When i cam back, they were divorced and I had missed my exams.  The Winter of discontent was full on, there were no apprenticeships going and I can remember my careers meeting with the teachers, they taught us how to fill in a UB40 form, who i might add were experiencing success in the charts with "I am a one in ten".

Parents had a row about where i was going to work and my mother told my dad i was not to work on the building sites with him and that i had to work in an office.

Anyway, I ended up working in a warehouse schlepping boxes about.  They sold haberdashery so i thought i'd have a go selling it myself on the Birmingham City Rag and Row Markets, which i did do, for a year and half.  Got bored with it so went travelling.  When i left Birmingham  (1982), there were 1 millions unemployed.  When i came back a few years later, there were 3 million unemployed and I just didn't believe i could get a job, had no money for going back on the markets, no qualifications, etc etc.  Lost my confidence basically, so decided i would go to college and do some o'levels.  At the time, i could sign on and study under the 21 hour rule.  As long as i didn't study for more than 21 hours a week, i could claim benefits.  Whilst there, i met a girl and wanted to get my end away but didn't have any money to take her out.  So, i robbed my dads ladders, got me a bucket and sponge and went knocking doors round the back of my nans house.  Cleaned 7 houses (this is where i nearly fell and poop myself, literally), managed to get paid out on 5 of them at £5 a time (this was 1984), the others wouldn't pay me, said i did an awful job, which i did do cos i didn't know what i was doing.  I'm sure the others paid me cos they didn't check the windows, had they done, i wouldn't have got paid.  Anyway, with my £25 (i got £23 a fortnight on the dole), i rang the bird up and she cancelled on me.  Anyway, went out got ped that night and pulled some bird in the Dubliner in Digbeth, Marvellous.

In the mean time, I eventually ended up working in an office, call centres actually, became a team manager and then senior manager and several years ago, ended up working for one of the largest cleaning chemical manufacturers in the world.  I manged a team of customer service people who organised installations along with reactive and planned maintenance for a division of electrical engineers.  The equipment was dosing pumps for washing machines and dishwashers etc.

Anyway, about 3 years ago, a 12 year relationship i had been in, came to an end, my mom died and i lost my job all at the same time.  Knocked me for six basically.  Spent the following 2 years more or less thinking about what i was gonna do with my life and i'm still thinking about it.

Problem is, when i reflect back on things, i know that i don't want to work for anyone else ever again.  Yet i don't have a trade or a skill which i can use to work for myself, except my nous and some might say, i aint got any, others will say i'm a genius.

In the mean time, i keep coming back to 3 things which i believe i can do, one of which ive already done but they are:-

1.0  I can drive so i think i could always be a taxi driver but i just don't fancy the hours and the dig in the back of the head.  But the overriding reason i don't is cos i know ill end up being a fatter B than I am already.

2.0  Window cleaning, low barriers to entry, active job which would manage my weight and health along with the fresh air.  There are down sides, i know and this is why Grudge you should put that bet on, you might just win it.

3.0 Internet. I thought that if anyone wanted to set up a shop and sell something, it had to be on the internet, its a no brainer.  So, last August, i opened a shop on eBay, ive got 2 of them now, one selling watchstraps and batteries, the other, my old favorite, haberdashery.  I've got a shop outside eBay selling haberdashery too but its no where near as good as eBay but has lots of potential.

After 12 months, i'm pleased i've done it except i've been sitting in a spare room for 3 years now, 1 year of which has been building my eBay shop and i need to get out and do something in addition to this cos i get very little social contact apart from when i walk round Edgbaston reservoir every day, trying to manage my weight.

When im walking round, and it can be up to 4 hours a day (i walk 7 and 14 miles on alternate days) i think i could be canvassing and building a round and get a reward for walking, plus i can afford to take the attitude i have because i don't have a mortgage so i'm not financially led although, i do like money, don't get me wrong.  I just don't need to work for £10 an hour so i reckon i can afford to hold out for the choice jobs provided they are within the scope of my abilities.  But, like a few of you have said, stop thinking about it and go out and find out.  I will, but im in no rush, plenty of time.

I think someone said that i sound like a hobby window cleaner and i think that is exactly what i might end up being.

I decided to come out of the closet and start talking to you chaps  because i feel i have a leap to make.  I am no window cleaner, but i thought that if i start to engage with window cleaners, i might think like one, if i think like one, then i might behave like one and if i behave like one, then i suppose im a window cleaner.

Anyone else wanna take me out on the poles?


Martin

[William McCafferty]

at the moment I don't have problems with accepting cheques payments because I still get free banking with the Alliance & Leicester now Santander, but I do remember years ago in a different business I and other businesses use to charge £1 extra for cheque payments, as long as you offer an alternative free payment method then you are allowed to do this.

[Small but perfectley formed]

Stessless you will get customers but not compact this is where the top earnings are compact rounds not 1 here and there ,
You will get fed of canvassing because you will get lots of knock back people are very price sensative even the one with plenty of cash.

[William McCafferty]

Martin

What you are after is the same that every cleaner on here wants, but it takes time and you have to learn from your mistakes that you will make.

I have, on and off been cleaning windows for over 30 years and this lastest venture is only 10 years old.

Like you I wanted all the cream and the easy life, but to achive this you need to learn, make mistakes and learn from them.

But all of this takes time, after 10 years I am at that stage but for 8 years I was a bit relaxed, so maybe it could have been done sooner.

If I was you I would go out with a cleaner and see what the sharp end of the operation is all about, my offer still stands by the way.

[stresslesscleaning]

Small


Thanks for that.

When i first started sniffing around here (2003-2005), most of the WC's were Trad and WFP was in its infancy.  There were often lots of fights between to 2 on here over what was best method.

Around 2007-8, i think the numbers had equalized and a Franchise was around £15000 which included a van and the monthlies to go with it.  The economy was quite buoyant and it still seemed very attractive to become a WC.  I recall reading an article in the national press about office workers giving up there 9-5 and becoming WFP window cleaners because they could earn £50k per annum in London.

One of the things i think about now is that there appears to be far more WFP than Trad on here but also a lot of new entrants and i wondered if the influx of new starters who can begin with a trolley for £500ish and the high unemployment rate has affected the rate you can charge for a clean or is there still room for more window cleaners?

Taxi Drivers are hammered, they aren't earning anything at present.

Martin

[William McCafferty]

Martin

With window cleaning its all about skill and knowledge, yes its true that there are many newbies just like you are one.

But like nature, all do not survive, some just buy some fancy equipment and think its a magic wand from "Harry Potter"  and hey presto clean windows and £5 thank you.

They also seem to start when the weather is nice ond sunny, but soon the winter sets in and its a diffentent game cleaning windows in sub zero temputures.

So what happens to all these newbies, just like in the days of the ladders the wilt away into the wilderness.

Franchising seems to be the next step that established window cleaners are looking at, it's the same progress that the trade went though 10 years ago with wfp.

A newbie starting up is still going to make mistakes and they will take many months or years normally to achieve what some cleaners are achieving nowadays, forums are great for finding help and advice, but sometimes the answers differ greatly or the answers you want are not what you will get.

Personally I see that although there are a lot of cleaners, there is room for a lot more, I believe that in the near future the industry will change, it will become more customer friendly not at the window cleaners bequest, that is why I feel that posters get attacked when they post topics that these cleaners don't like, it just the same as the agurments when wfp became more common place as a method to clean cleaners.

I know someone who years ago thought that computers were a fad, the internet was useless and they would soon dissappear into history, he still believes the same today.

[dazmond]

i either leave a SAE with a second class stamp or bank details to pay by bank transfer on bigger good paying accounts that are away from my normal work.

i still do cash collections on big chunks of my round as i have a lot of very compact work in the same area which is only 10 mins drive from where i live.its great for cashflow!

im very well established though(been going 18 years!).

i only text/phone a handful of customers every month the night before for access as i like to keep my work as flexible as possible as due to the weather you cant always get round the next day.plus sometimes i feel like finishing early the next day or take the complete day off!it saves less hassle in the long run i find!

dont forget to get a contact number from your customers that pay online/SAE as they sometimes forget to pay and need a gentle reminder sometimes!

loads of my customers pay me on day of clean most days as well so my collecting is only an hour or so once or twice a week!

it works well for me.i never clean more than twice without payment then if i get "bumped" for the money its not a large amount to lose!!

i always have a rolling debt from month to month but i keep it managable!!


best wishes


dazmond

[robertphil]

martin-you didnt actually fall all those years ago . Everybody new on ladders has a few scares . Dont be put off ,you should get the ladders off your Dad and hit the streets tomorrow. Sure it will take bottle but thats what this trade is about .

 Those with no bottle dont last long in it.
 

[William McCafferty]

martin-you didnt actually fall all those years ago . Everybody new on ladders has a few scares . Dont be put off ,you should get the ladders off your Dad and hit the streets tomorrow. Sure it will take bottle but thats what this trade is about .

 Those with no bottle dont last long in it.
 

I cannot believe you have said that, ladder safety does not come down to having "bottle".

[robertphil]

maybe i wrote it wrongly,what i Meant to say was that if you go the trad route,it takes a bit of bottle . in my firm i split the work ,somebody does the downs only and somebody else does the ups only. i personally do the ups only ,on ladders .

[Small but perfectley formed]

Go to some affluent areas and start knocking invest in polo short / sweatshirt with martins window cleaning or what ever you are going to trade as.
Good luck and get knocking !

[Carl2009]

Martin,

Seems you've been through the wars a bit, but you've come out the other side and are looking to the future. Good luck to ya.

Now, there's a lot of lads on here who are talking a lot of sense, so i'd say listen to them all and take the best bits of advice that work for you. For what its worth here's my two pennies worth.

You're over complicating things. You won't have time to read people your rules when you are out canvassing or you get stopped on the street and you get asked 'How much do you charge'.

Here's a bit from previous posts of mine:

I started April 2009 from scratch. I knocked doors for 3 months, wore out a pair of boots and had bleeding knuckles in doing so, but haven't knocked a door since. Total advertising spend so far: a tenner.

I knocked the door and said "Hi my name's Carl Welsby, I live in Crymych. I was wondering if you had or were in need of a regular window cleaner?". If they said they did have one, I thanked them for their time and walked away. If they said they had one and they asked me to quote I asked them why they wanted me to quote. If it was because they were not happy with them or they were unreliable then I quoted. If it was because they were looking to drive down their spend I declined, explaining I didn't want to take another mans business ( I also knew that if I got the custie and someone else came and undercut me then i'd be out: such custies aren't worth having imo). It will get back to the other windies and you won't put their back up (unless they are nutters).

My advice is:

No-one owns "a patch"

Don't quote if they have a windie UNLESS they are unhappy with them

Always stop and talk to other windies or at least honk at them and give em a wave. I have one close to me who has given me work and i've dropped off a slab of beer in return. It's better to be mates.

A price war hurts everyone. I don't want to be busy as hell earning begger all.

Don't price too low, but deliver a first class clean that gives good value for money. If in doubt add a couple of quid to the price.

Do any clean you can at first, but slowly dump the poor payers and ones where they don't clean up the dog poop. It's a great feeling to be able to chuck custies who won't respect you.

Do the occasional freebie - garage doors etc. BUT tell the custie you've done it so you get the credit!

Get a website. But get your van signwritten first - best way to get new business.

And for Gawd's sake say a smiley hello to people who pass you as you work - you'll be amazed how many ask you "How much do you charge".


And here's a bit about postage:

I've just worked out that i've spent £224 on postage in 2010/11 and £108 so far in 2011/12 (and I still have over 200 stamps left and year end is 5th April 2012, so i'll easily see that out).

This averages as £166 per year on stamps (at .36 p per stamp thats 461 payments).
Labels costs me £18.90 per year
Envelopes £20.32 per year
Total: £205.22 per year

Cost of receiving a payment is therefore £205.22 / 461 payments = .45 pence per  payment.

New costs, post proposed increase will be: £299.26 / 461 payments = .65 pence per payment (assumng 55% rise in stamp cosy and 7% rise in cost of lables and envelopes)


From my point of view I don't call people the night before, unless I need access - gives them chance to say no.

[Bay View WCS]

Hi Small

Maybe you're right but don't you think it goes back to the canvassing and the sales pitch?  Basically inspiring confidence and justifying the higher rate.  

I have this vision of me knocking doors, asking the basic question, have you got a window cleaner and the moment they say no and that they want one, start my sales process off which will include not telling them the price until:-

1.0 I've surveyed the property.  During the survey, I want to ask myself the question, do I really want to clean this house and if so, at what price do I want and what special conditions might I have unique to this house.

2.0 If i'm prepared to clean the windows then i'd engage with the customer and explain these conditions.  If they agreed then i'd explain my standard terms (some of which i lifted off this site when i was researching window cleaning previously)

3.0 Weather - Will continue to work through the rain. – The pure water we use leaves the windows free of water marks and blemishes.

4.0 Settlement- If you happen to be out when we clean your windows, we will leave a pre-paid envelope along with a payment advice slip.  All we ask you do is send payment in the form of a cheque made payable to Martin XXXXXXX within 5 working days of the clean.

5.0 Health and Safety - Due to Health and Safety reasons, we will not climb ladders above ground floor.  It’s too risky and we cannot obtain life insurance to cover us in the event of a fall resulting in death.  For this reason, we use the latest window cleaning technology.

6.0 The latest pure water window cleaning technology - The latest window cleaning technology uses pure water which is manufactured by us on the back of our vans.  Pure water is “Pure”; it has zero impurities which means it leaves no blemishes, water marks or streaks.

7.0 Results - However, due to years of “build up” from washing up liquids, paint, dirt, dust etc, 2 or even 3 washes may be required before you observe the full benefits.

8.0 Satisfaction Guaranteed - If you are unhappy with the results, we have no problem in returning to remedy the matter and this forms the basis of our “satisfaction guaranteed” policy.

9.0 Frequency - Our callage pattern will see us clean your windows every 4 weeks or there abouts.  If you feel that you would prefer to have your windows cleaned every 6 or even 8 weeks because you believe the visits to be too frequent, too clean or because you need to be prudent, then please discuss this with us at our next planned visit.

10 Surcharge - Fewer visits during the year will mean that your windows become harder to clean than would be the case with a 4 weekly visit.  This means that an additional charge will be levied because of the extra time needed to clean your windows.  This will be discussed with you at the time of notification.


Now i lifted most of that from a post in this forum a few years ago.  I amended it here and there but in my view, if the customer listens to me taking them through that list and then i state the price i want and they agree to it, then i'll take them on, otherwise, they can wait for the next window cleaner to come along.  I'll just move on rapid.

Of course, if they appoint me, i'll nurture them over time to protect the business, basically make them a friend in some way, tell them i was looking out for intruders and stuff like that.  To me, i think I would try and get an emotional attachment from them so that if a window cleaner came and canvassed them in future and offered their service for £5 when i'd quoted £10, I have a good chance of keeping them due to loyalty etc.  I also believe that £120 per annum aint a lot of money for a good friendly service.  Of course, I'm hoping to get the £40 houses LOL

What do you think?

Kind regards


Martin

Stressless

You obviously have some experience in analysing processes from your previous employment but, as stated by others, it is possible to overcomplicate matter by examining things to the nth degree.  I am also guilty of this - leading to plenty of thinking and very little of the doing.

You really need to stop thinking so much and get out there to see the lie of the land.  Whilst window cleaning can seem attractive with the monies that can be earned it will take time and a significant amount of effort to get there - analysis alone will get you nowhere.

I would also suggest that you need to lower your expectations somewhat for years 1/2.  It is frankly a little foolish and perhaps a little naive in respect of point 1.0 above ( do I really want to clean this house ).  In my (humble and newbie) opinion you should not really be considering turning down a job while you are starting out - each new job brings experience - even if that is having the bottle to explain to the custy that you cannot clean there again because of the hideous amounts of dog sh!te all over the garden.  When starting I got all the rubbish custies who had been dumped by other windies - it really pi$$ed me off at the time but I considered it a learning exercise and over time I have dumped/culled/educated and this is still an ongoing process - for me at least.

Your Utopian model of canvassing will not cut it - certainly not until you are well established and better versed in the process - and that will only come with practice and not staring at a page cutting and pasting a word document for the best way to canvass.

Maybe I have it wrong and perhaps you have the luxury of being able to canvass in the way you suggest - if that's true then I take my hat off to you but I think necessity is the best kick up the 'arris anyone can have.

Take the offers you have and get out there to see if is for you - then canvass to see whether for you the paper method will translate into a viable business model.  I wish you luck because when it's going good being a self employed windy beats any of the jobs I've had.


And back to the OP, I leave a payment slip which has my bank details for a transfer and my email for a PayPal payment.  I still call to collect on around 50% ; for those that pay by cheque I leave an addressed envelope with no stamp - no-one has complained about the lack of a stamp

Cheers

Tom

[Blue City Cleaning]

Stressless - wow you write a lot 

[SimonBurton]

And on top of postage, envelopes you have the cost of paying into the bank if its a cheque......

[ben M]

And on top of postage, envelopes you have the cost of paying into the bank if its a cheque......

only if you have a business account...

[Dougaldum]

Now I've negated the water costs concern, I've shifted my attention to other areas of my business plan and in particular, I've been thinking about the costs associated with collecting money.

Since i don't want to revisit a site to collect payment, i decided to leave a pre-paid envelope for the customer to settle their bill.

Now I've got a Franking machine for my other little venture and the cost of a second class stamp is 31p but it has to be used within 24 hours of it being printed otherwise it becomes null and void so it seems i wont be able to use this.  However, a normal second class stamp is 50p and using some arbitrary numbers, say 10 customers per day with 20 days in a 4 week callage plan, it would cost at the most, £100 per month excluding envelopes.  Now that is a fairly high cost so Ii suppose the best way to treat this cost is add it on to the window cleaning charge.

But, I see some of you offer the Paypal method of paying and i know that this is free of charge if the customer select the button indicating  that they're sending the money to a friend and that its not a payment for a service or product.  For me, this has got to be the way forward except that i'm thinking most of the customers will either be seniors and not know the internet and others who will just be lazy and not pay.

So, i was wondering, for those that offer Paypal, how many customers do you manage to shift onto this payment method and how many actually pay this way?  Whats their reaction basically?  And what other technology methods might you offer?

I see that there are other ways of taking money using mobile phones.  Anyone heard of or use this method?

Kind regards

Martin

stamps are100% against tax and you can spend more time doing other things more important