Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2004, 07:42:50 pm »
Yea but problem is it has not been crash tested.
so more like a robin reliant
hahaha
Alan

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2004, 08:04:37 pm »
Nice one polepro
think he has made a rod for his own back
Alan

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2004, 08:17:00 pm »
One thing Dom is you are very funny
Keep it up
Alan

Pdh

  • Posts: 231
Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2004, 08:26:37 pm »
everyone backing crash testing {are your systems all crash tested} and ionic systems i guess? had a demo with tucker their system is the onlyone that could be removed from the vehicle{fastened in with straps}300 ltr system .they reckoned totally safe.

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2004, 08:27:53 pm »
Sean,

Looks like I may get the last word for a change (but I doubt it).

Our testing has been made public, on our website, at trade shows, in editorial and in advertising. http://www.ionicsystems.com We have made it public and because the supplier in question has made no legal challenge it is reasonable for others to assume that that is because the results are beyond question.

We offered to make a presentation to you and others at Sumerfield House, Brodex refused to attend. A few posts ago you said that your company would pay to have the data investigated by an independent body, but it would appear that you may have backed down from that position.

We have no problem making the data available to the consumer, and if anyone wants to see it for themselves they are welcome to come to our premises and we will happily show them.

Please, put up or shut up.

regards

Reuben


pure_genius

  • Posts: 47
Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2004, 10:59:17 pm »
Dom,

I am suprised that you say you are an educated man that you allow Ionic to show the crash test footage of your system failing a crash test, if that was my company i would have legally challenged what they have done and then demonstrated to the consumer that my system was safe with undertaking of crash testing.

Your fueling there fire and letting them walk all over you. I am sure your system is a good one but i would not have it fitted in a van maybe a trailer.

   

pure_genius

  • Posts: 47
Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2004, 11:16:39 pm »
dom,

i was only trying to be constructive  ???
do you speak to all your prospects like this?

Kevin

pdhanson

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2004, 02:18:23 am »
Sorry to but in here, but isnt the whole point of crash testing to 'develop' a safe system?

If one system fails, surely that doesnt mean it needs to be ignored.  

I'm sure that ionic, or any other company, would never have made a song and dance about a test that showed its system failing, but only when problems had been ironed out and a successful test completed would it publish the results.

No doubt this would take a considerable time, and other companies will eventually go through the same process.

Silly

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2004, 12:31:08 pm »
Silly,

You're right, the whole point of crash testing is to make window cleaning safer. When we first released news of the crash testing we invited other responsible manufacturers to follow suit. We agreed with Bryan Dolby to make a presentation at the NFMWGC headquarters, all pole suppliers were invited. That was in April 2003, to date no such meeting has taken place, because certain competitors declined to attend.

Every year 3-5 window cleaners are killed in ladder accidents, in separate incidents. The potential exists for 3 window cleaners to be killed in a single road traffic accident by the water tank fitted in their van, a fact that has been proven. Clearly the use of waterfed pole systems is set to grow, it is not difficult therefore to foresee a time when two or more incidents involving water tanks lead to greater loss of life than ladders currently do. Remember that waterfed poles are meant to be safer than ladders.

We really would like to see other suppliers offering certificated crash tested equipment in order to ensure that the waterfed pole industry maintains a 100% safety record.

The argument about whether the testing was flawed can easily be won by Ionic, but what is really at issue here is, why our competitors are so reluctant to submit their own equipment for testing. If the shoe had been on the other foot Ionic would have carried out testing by now and held a certificate in order to prove the safety of its equipment. If these companies are indeed selling more systems than Ionic as Dom suggests then its not that they can't afford it. So it would be reasonable to assume that reasons for not testing may be;

1) They place profit above safety.
2) They do not believe that their equipment would pass.

We have not and shall not name the competitor who's system was used in the comparative test, and therefore cannot publish all of the data without the written consent of the competitor in question. In the event that such consent is forthcomming we will be happy to provide all of the data directly to a suitably qualified third party.

We think that we have said all that needs to be said on the subject of crash testing and will not bring up the subject on this forum again. However, we will defend ourselves when necessary and will answer posts or topics when advise is sought. This was the case when I offered advise to fit DIY systems into trailers rather than vans.

regards

Reuben

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2004, 03:02:22 pm »
Ditto

Won't attend NFMWGC crash meeting... Scared to attend.
Won't appoint a third party... Scared to appoint a third party.
Won't go to court.... Scared to go to court.
Won't undertake crash testing... Scared to undertake crash testing.
Won't give consent to publish... Scared to publish!

Scared to publish? not us.

Regards

Reuben

Majestic

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2004, 04:13:07 pm »
Won'-t hear the last of this

Old_Master

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2004, 03:03:43 am »
Reubin
I wasnt going to get involved in this slanging match.

But I have just one question. Why has the top half of your crash test dummy clearly been digitally removed. Is it because it went through the windscreen?

Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2004, 12:12:09 pm »
Old Master,

If you look at the video on the safety page our website http://www.ionicsystems.com you can see the dummy in shot the whole time, the view from the overhead camera shows that the windscreen remains intact.

When you visited our trade stand at the NEC you saw the van on display complete with windscreen. In fact we still have the van with windscreen intact. Clearly we could not post the whole of the video on the website because it would take too long to download it to play, its edited but not digitally enhanced that would be wrong.

regards

Reuben

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2004, 02:07:53 pm »
Just to let you know that I am meeting Craig Mawlam tommorrow in Lyneham to see the crash test 'data' that so many recent topics have covered. Like many others here I am getting tired of reading the same accusations time and again. Ionic says the system that failed the crash test was fitted by 'the competitor' and it has video evidence to prove it, while Brodex insists the machine in question was not - one of them is blatantly lying and I'm interested to know if this video actually exists and what's on it. Brodex also question the test proceedure used by Thatcham and claim that they will produce any results for a fee. Recently, Omnipole have joined the debate (again another one who has chosen to do it anonymously) and have suggested that the test video has been digitally modified.

There are also a number of other issues that have been discussed but have been inconclusive because one or other has witheld information and it will be interesting to see what information Ionic are prepared to share.

Ironically, pure water window cleaning is becoming more and more popular, in part at least, because it is considered safer than working with ladders. Crash testing is a serious issue and it's unfortunate that it's going to take the death of a window cleaner from a poorly fitted system before more manufacturers become proactive about safety and work together to make ALL systems safer.

I'll let you know on Thursday once I've discovered why they won't publish 'the data' (if indeed it actually exists!)

Regards

Mike

dean stewart

  • Posts: 14
Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2004, 01:54:19 am »
Hi just to but in here, I watched the 'horrifying' crash test video on Ionic website.  Who is the competitor where the crash test failed miserably.  A straight answer will do so I know to avoid this company.
We blossom in the Garden of England

Denis

  • Posts: 5
Re: Wanted Water Fed Pole System
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2004, 06:58:05 pm »
Quote
Im looking for a water fed pole system, either trolley or possibly van type.  Interested in the ones that have either 1 or 2 poles coming off, could you please message me and lket me know how much your looking for if you have one for sale.

Cheers


I have a 500l  complete Waterfed pole system 6 month
old for sale Plz call Simon on 07732687510.