[John Gregory]

Shauns last post got me a bit worried . can a lot of damage be caused by using too much heat on carpets.

[lands]

Yes john, especially on synthetics. Wool takes a lot of heat. I did a tight weave loop pile which as you know is damaging to agitate too aggressively so I turned my heating element up to 85 centigrade and that did the job. Would never do that on nylon or polyprop.

Pete

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Worried why?

Common sense says you wouldn't put a steam iron to your carpets,would you?
Some cleaners with their politics will say that steam can damage carpets but who cleans with steam? hot water yes steam no! with my TM it looks as though steam comes from the wand but it is just vapour over spray, I have never damaged a carpet yet in 20 years.

How do you kill dustmites? the experts say hot water, will cold water kill them? or with cold water do you have to introduce more chemical? how well does it really rinse out? Derek Bolton says he would happily swap his piled fabric cleaned for flat weaves as he is never sure what has been rinsed out!

What is in the carpet? well to start with there's sand and grit, oils and then the sticky stuffs like dirt from your hands may be sweat or newspaper print also I read a report some years ago that carsinogens from vehicle fumes that you bring in with your clothes are present, which would you rinse your carpet with HOT or COLD?

Shaun

[stevegunn]

Shauns last post got me a bit worried . can a lot of damage be caused by using too much heat on carpets.

You must consider not only the colorfastness of the fabric, but also how delicate it is. Some fibers and weaves weaken with heat, and a combination of heat and agitation may cause damage. Velvet weaves and flocked materials are prime examples.

Many natural fibers need to be cleaned with a lower temperature.

Cut pile fabrics are more sensitive to higher temperatures. If the simple movement of your cleaning tool leaves jet marks, heated water can increase the marks and be difficult to remove.   
 

   
 
               
Search www.cleanprosonline.com 
     . 

[*paul_moss]

Its just common sence.

There is anoher thread about this on another board stating that cold water gets better or same results :

Just try this one at home yourselves. Go out in the garden and spend 3 minutes rolling your hands in mud and crap,then go in and wash them in soap and cold water.

Do the same experiment using hot water.

Which cleans quicker and better, and which feels better,and which do you feel removes more germs.

Forget the bolloccks on other forums and let common sence provaile.

[elliott cleaning]

Let's not get to scientific about this.
The NHS has informed me that although Hot Water Extraction or Cold Water Extraction, Truckmount or Portable, Encap or LM, all make carpets look very clean - under the microscope things don't look to rosy.  Hence they prefer not to carpet their operating theatres

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

There are several advantages of using hot water , most linked to the greater energy which those molecules will have .

This speeds penetration. drying, solubility etc.

It is common sense really , imagine a moecules of water moving twice as quickly as cooler ones , which do you think would react quickest.

I will put together a more comprehensive answer when time allows, perhaps Graeme Thurston could give us some of his knowledge.

Cheers

Doug

P.S Do you think Proctor and Gamble are going to recommend cold water be used with their washing powders.?

[lands]

Your the man Doug. Science is key and thats what drives our performance.

[*paul_moss]

Let's not get to scientific about this.
The NHS has informed me that although Hot Water Extraction or Cold Water Extraction, Truckmount or Portable, Encap or LM, all make carpets look very clean - under the microscope things don't look to rosy.  Hence they prefer not to carpet their operating theatres

You cant compare a hospital theatre to a house lounge :
Hospitals need to be sterile.
House carpets just need to be cleaned and look clean.
Once a carpet has been correctly cleaned it will become unsterile the moment it is walked upon, but it terms of visual clean it will still look clean.

We walk on our carpets, we dont eat off them or operate on them. Well not all the time 

[John Kelly]

I did (a very unscientific) a little test a while ago when this subject raised its head.
I got 2 Polyprop tiles, poured 1 litre of cold water onto one and a litre of hot water on the other.
The cold water ran all over the tile and off the edges.
The hot water went straight into the fibres and left a wet patch about 8 inchs across.
Two things struck me, obviously the hot water pentrates easier. But does this mean the cold water could give a better surface clean without pentrating deeper down.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

On the question of Science we can look at the energy of a clean.

Energy is avaialable in lots of different forms, heat , light, mechanical, electrical etc

If we use the standard carpet clean i.e pre vac, pre spray, extract with hot cleaning solution we are using X energy

Alternatively try the 'new' method, pre vac, pre spray, mechanically agitate , extract cold water.Now depending on how much agitation then this will use more , the same or less energy.

So basically the heat is being replaced with mechanical energy .

The biggest drawbacks in my view to the latter are the increased time, remember not much use saving 50p on Chems when you spend an extra half an hour agitating and just as importantly the inability of maechanical agitation to make up for the sheer cleaning power of heat.

Cheers

Doug

[Doug Holloway]

Hi John,

Hot water has a lower surafce tension so will wet out better than cold water.

As for cold water giving a less penetrative clean, then yes this will happen assuming everything else is the same.

Cheers

Dpog

[Ian Gourlay]

As I understood the cleaning pie hot water was one of the components. If you had less of one you needed more of another.

I thought this was part of Carpet Cleaning Exams but Ken is higher in the industry standards, exams,etc  Perhaps there is an as Ken puts Eco cleaning section now.

My experience when I clean a Car in Cold water or a van when it is duty is rubbish , even if I add extra shampoo.

Sometimes when you do rentals you only have cold water and I find the results harder to obtain with convential cleaning products.

I do not use Mpower or Nemisis so have always refrained from passing comment.

Perhaps one day I will invest £70 as this industry does not appear to be like the record industry or book industry where editors get samplers . 

[garyfindlay]

i have used one-step, rotowash for aggitation, then cold water rinse, on rental properties, because no hot water was available, and the owners were delighted, which at the end of the day is the main objective.

[Ken Wainwright]

Traditionally, nine times out of ten, hot water cleaning will be better than cold water cleaning. Some new solutions are efective at lower temperatures.

Some, not all, are confusing cold water cleaning with cold water rinsing.

MS's, suitably agitated, will have sheared the soil from the yarn bundle and, theoretically, will not reattach even when drying. Cold water rinsing performs admirably in these conditions. Other factors that we have not discussed here are things like tool design and machine performance. But this will really complicate the debate.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Mark Roberts]

Its clear to see you can get the same results using cold, I have for years now, some may find it takes longer if like Doug says your adding agitation to make up for heat. But I would say adding mechanical agitation produces a better clean regardless of hot or cold as your mixing the pre-spray into all the fibres.

As for the energy of heat, yea hot water molecules move faster etc but the reason you cant compare carpet cleaning to washing your hands or laundry is simple, the water comes out the wand and hits the carpet for a second at most, there is no time for the heat to do much, the main energy is kinetic - the speed of the water hitting the carpet is the biggest factor.

I agree with uncle Ken though, the way you approach the clean is different, but with continued practise the time scale evens out.

[*paul_moss]

As for the energy of heat, yea hot water molecules move faster etc but the reason you cant compare carpet cleaning to washing your hands or laundry is simple, the water comes out the wand and hits the carpet for a second at most, there is no time for the heat to do much, the main energy is kinetic - the speed of the water hitting the carpet is the biggest factor.

Mark your right in one respect.If you were to wash your car with a hose on the garden tap,then you will get some pressure and remove a fair bit of the muck.But if you use a jet from the garage it will blast more muck off than the garden hose,so pressure is important.
Where your wrong is on the haet factor and from experience I use to own a valet centre with a number of  hand jet washes the best was the diesel jet that produced hot water as the oter 2 were cold water jets. You would notice the difference when you steamed the engines,you would spray a chemical on first very similar to prespraying your carpet ( but a much stronger chemical) then you would have to give it 10 mins dwell time, then you would jet it off and the engines looked like new again.
The really old dirty engines would not come up very clean with the cold water jets but soon as you put the hot water jets on it ripped all the poop off straight away.
So yes heat plays a big part in cleaning.
With regards  to low soiled carpets cold water would be suffice but on dirty,oily carpets you need plenty of hear.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Mark

If the main energy was kinetic then there would be little point in heating the water.

I have done lots of skanky carpets this week and heat  has been the a big factor in  getting a quality finish.

Cheers

Doug

[*paul_moss]

I see on another forum  : they are starting to stand down on the cold water clean.
Some chemicals will work ok with cold water fact.
But all chemicals work better with hot water fact.

[Ian Puckett]

am i missing somthin here the or is it just that you dont like sombody
? seems more like sower grapes to me