[LWC]

yes i know you all get tired of these threads, but for those trad non belivers please read

i picked up someone the other day that has had a trad cleaner that she loved and was the best window cleaner ever, bla bla bla...3 years ago i asked her if she was interested as i did next door. the other day she said hes packed up can you come and do them...not a problem, then a friend of hers who had this "fantastic" trad cleaner, and got home to have a phone call off both off them to say they have never seen such clean windows. and were very pleased!!

and im getting alot of compliments lately, everyone says how mcuh better it is. and when the customers are telling me this without me promting it, well it just goes to show just how good wfp is

 

[Sir Squeaky]

Total opposite of my experiences so far.

Lost another one today, and the lady next to it didn't seem pleased.
Doubt I'll have that one either by next month.

[sunshine windows]

I'm not trying to say that your wfp'ing doesn't do a top job, but perhaps these old trad cleaners weren't quite up to standard.

I know for a fact that i do the best possible clean that i can on each and every house. I too get a lot of compliments from satisfied customers.

However i also know the method of trad cleaning i use has it's faults. I like to wipe kick marks off with the scrim and i also scrim all the edges of the pane after squeegeeing. I know that this method does leave very faint marks in the direct sunlight but i've never had one complaint from a 'sane' customer. (Just one old dude that was going senile).

I think for someone to get complaints cleaning the trad way is either too lazy to do a proper job (not trying to say my method is the proper way), or they have absolutely no idea of how to clean a window.

I am now in the process of changing over to wfp because i want to acheive the highest possible standard of cleaning. Also i feel that this will speed me up thus increasing profit.

So for as far as wfp doing a high quality job. I hope it does just that or i'm about to throw several thousands of pounds down the drain.

Lance

[brett walker]

wfp or trad both do an excellent job

its all down to the user at the end of the day i have come across good and bad in both but sometimes you just come across funny customers

Brett

[Sir Squeaky]

I can do decent job, but people don't water everywhere, and they certainly don't want you walking away leaving the windows wet.

Any wind or rain in the drying time and you've had it.

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

If you clean trad and do a good job the windows will look good apart from when the sun shines through and shows up all the tiny mistakes.  I've never had a complaint from trad in 10 years.

With wfp if you do a good job the widows really do look better, the look good even when the sun shines.  Customers tell me that they really do look better.  However it's very easy to not do a top job, just rush the window a bit and boom you have spots.  When you get a line of spots down the kitchen window the customer will notice.  I've been doing it over 4 months and had a few complaints but I just put this down to a learning curve.

trad and wfp I like them both

Simon

[Clear Vision]

I have seen trad cleaners whizz round houses and leave a poor finish and I have seen trad cleaners take their time and leave a really good finish.

Wfp is the same. Take your time and rinse properly and carefully and you can walk away without worrying how they will dry.

I whizzed around a house with wfp last month and when I went back today I saw  loads of spots.

Each technique is only as good as the man operating it

Matthew

[LWC]

I'm not trying to say that your wfp'ing doesn't do a top job, but perhaps these old trad cleaners weren't quite up to standard.

the point i was making is she loved her old window cleaner, in her eyes no one could be better. she was happy with him. i imagine her to look at me with wfp and thinking it would be rubbish because she loved the cleaner she had who was trad

[Dave Turley]

i think that you can do a good or bad job with both trad and wfp (if you want to and with enough practice)

sad thing is, some w/c'ers dont care wether they do a good job with either method, as long as they're coining it in

i've thought about going down that road but i just couldn't sleep at night if i did!

[dudek]

what type of brush head should you use ?

[LWC]

should? how do you mean?

i have a new vikan brush, the red one

[Tosh]

I can do decent job, but people don't water everywhere, and they certainly don't want you walking away leaving the windows wet.

Any wind or rain in the drying time and you've had it.

I did an 'old people's complex' today; flats; WFP tops, trad on ground floor.  It was a bit windy at times and we had a few showers.

Ian_Giles was originally asked to quote, but declined the job since many of the windows (if not all of 'em) were oxidised.

I explained to the estate manager that I would use my WFP on the 1st floor only, but if after three cleans they didn't come good; I'd use ladders but would charge extra.  She was happy with that.

We did it today and the feedback we personally received from three of the top floor residents was spot on and the estate manager told me two others (from the 1st floor) has said that we're far better than their previous 100% trad window cleaners.

I also cleaned the internal 1st floor shared areas and from what I saw, the WFP did a cracking job; on some really heavily soiled windows; oxidised too.  There were a few imperfections admittedly; but nothing to get your knickers-in-a-twist-over; and you had to look hard for them also.

There's a knack to doing jobs like this!

But, (Roger) Squeaks, I just can't help thinking that it's maybe your communication skills that's letting you down.

Are you explaining your point-of-view why you're using the system and the benifits to your customers properly?

Good social skills and a bit of time spent explaining stuff to 'first time WFP customers' who were trad customers goes a long way to an easy WFP transition; I'm sure.
 

[Sir Squeaky]

But, (Roger) Squeaks, I just can't help thinking that it's maybe your communication skills that's letting you down.

Are you explaining your point-of-view why you're using the system and the benifits to your customers properly?

Good social skills and a bit of time spent explaining stuff to 'first time WFP customers' who were trad customers goes a long way to an easy WFP transition; I'm sure.
 

Totally. I lose loads of time each day explaining it.

Some just don't want to hear it though.

[Dave Turley]

i've got a "first clean sheet", which i give to everyone on their first wfp clean.
it explains briefly about how wfp works, and offers that if there are any excessive marks i will come back to re-clean the affected windows. no one has ever called me back due to the wording of it. even though i have noticed some marks on my return a month later.

[LWC]

i tell them if theres any marks call me and ill be straight back

not one call in a year 

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

Squeeks,

Why don't you just JACK IT ALL IN?!

Don't matter what you do.  All you do is MOAN, MOAN, MOAN. : :

NO wonder your customers are getting p****d off with you

Either roll your sleaves up and GET ON WITH IT
Or
Jack it in.

Sorry to the rest of you guys to be a little angry.  But to be quite honest I'm getting a bit fed up with Squieeks

David

[Sir Squeaky]

You obviously didn't lose many customers David.

I want to just get on with it, but it's the CUSTOMERS who keep moaning.

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

How many customers have you lost so far Roger?

 

[niceandclean]

Ive been WFP pole for the last 9 months now and the only complaint i have had is leaving the sills wet!! I always leave a first clean sheet saying that the windows may not come up to scratch until the third clean just to cover my bum! Most are perfect by either the first or at the most second clean, no customer has complained about them being left wet, customers have said on the second clean that they noticed a few runs or spots on the first clean which they have said is fine as i explained this would happen, and the only customer that i have lost to WFP is the customer moving away! As Dave and Tosh say, its down to how you expliain the benifits of the WFP to the customers!! You should not be loosing customers unless you are doing a bad job after the second cleans, and not given them the information that they need to know!!  

[matt]

i lost a customer, it happens, they didnt like the grass getting wet  : :

i hate losing any customer, as my round is great, most houses in the streets i cover, i dont like gaps left by lost customers, it makes my little book look untidy aswell with houses crossed out ( i now use tipex, so thats improved a little )

[mark f]

so wots the knack to doing the oxidised windows then Tosh?

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

Dave Chillout buddy. Not like you to have a rant.

Squeaky,

 I changed over to WFP very soon after you did and also had my reservations. But Ive always looked at your posts for an honest opinions but WOW I cant understand why you are losing so many customers 

I sit back and read most of the posts on this site and you really seem to have more problems than most.

 I don't leave leaflets explaining the system .... except if the customer is home. I just think if you leave leaflets, you are giving them a reason to inspect and find faults.

Ive just completed my first months clean (the hardest I believe) and only lost 1 (4 hundred year old hall)

Hopefully I wont lose anymore.

C'mon guys lets all stick together and sort Squeaky..... not abuse(well maybe a lttle ).

Bod

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

Mark.

With oxodised windows I just rinse rinse and rinse. If that dont work, its dropped.

Bod

[Biscute]

Bollick* WFP isnt amazing at cleaning its not fantastic, but it is good for some things. I have a WFP set up but it is a pain in the behind purifing water and transporting it, but it is better on georgen windows, to be honest i still do most of my work trad and what you get frames with oxerdised paint on them WFP is an abserloute joke.

[niceandclean]

Why do you leave a leaflet just when a customer is in Bod?? Surely it makes more sense to leave one if they are out, it backs up what you have told them when you took them on or changed them over???

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

Makes sense.  First cleans on wfp are not always perfect, if they are out and do not seen you clean the windows, why invite them to look for mistakes.  Most customers probably don't look at their windows any way and if they did see a mistake they might not put it down to you just the weather.

Simon

[niceandclean]

Well we will have to agree to disagree!! So what happens if they call you, what do you say?? Yes sorry mr customer, but that is what happens on first cleans!! Here love the window cleaner said thats what happens when he uses his new system!!! Mmmm, i know what i would do!! I would say that most of my customers look after a first clean as my misses calls to make sure everything was ok on the first clean, and some will say we noticed a few runs or spots but we have read the leaflet so we know to expect them! My opinion is that it stops complaints, but if they do call i say did you read the leaflet!! As i say i have not lost one customer changing over and not lost one new customer to WFP!!

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

Nice an clean.

 I havent told any of my customers I will be changing over to WFP.

I have however found that...those who watched me use the pole have asked lots of questions (and seemed happy), but those who were at work, aint noticed any difference and if the first clean left spots, they certainly didnt say anything.

bod

[NWH]

I didn`t tell my customers if i did they would be inspecting there windows like never before,if anyone were to ring me i would then explain the new method of working and then say that this method has to be used from now on,in telling them i think they would feel that you don`t have much confidence in the system,it would be like saying lets try it and see if it works.The only thing i would mention is the fact that they dry clean and the air temperature dictates how quickly they dry.

[niceandclean]

Well we all work differently i suppose, if it works for you then thats what counts.

[niceandclean]

Well as said before if it works for you NWH thats fine. I sell my service, all the good points, but also tell them the things that may be evident on a first clean and poss a second clean. I tell my canvassers to sell the WFP system, i get away with charging more money, but also when i or they sign up a customer they explain that they may experience a few spots ect. When i have done a first clean i leave a leaflet, and also explain about spotting, and most say yes we were told by the girl or yes you did say when you quoted! It works for me so im sticking with it!!

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

Nice and Clean, it seems to work for you so maybe If I get any complaints, I will take on your approach.

Great thing about this site is you can always learn more(if tyhat make sense) from others.
Bod

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

Nice and Clean, it seems to work for you so maybe If I get any complaints, I will take on your approach.

Great thing about this site is you can always learn more(if that make sense) from others.
Bod

[matt]

my way worked well enough

it was a bit of a pain, but hey

the first time i introduced the WFP system was on hard to reach windows OR windows that i didnt like to do off the ladder, so i used the ladder on easy windows and WFP on the rest

this lasted the first clean, it got people used to it, i then did the complete upstairs with WFP and ditched the ladder

job done, and i a have a round thats a fair % OAP's who hate change

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

Matt, Those who hate change......makes my bloody boil.

You done good boyo

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Funny how debates evolve over time.

[P @ F]

That span me right out !!!
I didn’t even notice the date of thread until the second page , I was just thinking wow all these old members have come back 

[zesty]

Old thread! But might as well chip in 😁

When I changed over to WFP I didn’t say a thing, if customers were in, I of course explained the change over and how it works.

Never had a problem, though I did lose 1 customer to the change over.

I’ve never looked back, I find wfp so much more efficient.

I actually prefer trad for health reasons. I think (yes even climbing ladders) it’s easier on the body. Atleast that’s my experience anyway.

 I find wfp is harder on the body, but I’d never ever go back to full time trad. I do the odd bungalow and an 88 year old mans bungalow trad. (Because it’s not worth the hassle trying to persuade him wfp works) other than that, I’m wfp.

When I think of the work I can get done with the wfp system compared with trad, there just isn’t any comparison.

[Plankton]

When did the wfp system first roll out? I can only remember first seeing a backpack user from around 2006. I was driving hgv's at the time and then someone I used to work with in the 90's got a system fitted and showed me the next best thing.... Metal poles! They didn't look to good and not before long he took them back and as the seller in Clydebank offered a money back guarantee he soon went bust....

Anyway I've been telling customers it's been around for twenty years but not entirely sure when it first started in the UK

[John H W Muttitt]

Does it really matter if the cleaning process is wfp or trad? We are all providing the same service and making sure that the customer is happy with the end result. It seems that there is quite a divide between window cleaners generally regarding the process of how the windows are cleaned. Move on and enjoy what we do 

[nathankaye]

Does it really matter if the cleaning process is wfp or trad? We are all providing the same service and making sure that the customer is happy with the end result. It seems that there is quite a divide between window cleaners generally regarding the process of how the windows are cleaned. Move on and enjoy what we do 

that's not what the thread is a out though.  it's no different to asking if you still wet/dry scrim leaded windows or use a spray bottle on trad tools.
it's just an old thread about the difference of tools

[Plankton]

I'd guess 75% don't even realize that they get their doors cleaned! Even though I've told 50% verbally

[Smudger]

too much waffle - very few are interested in anything other than frequency and price

take your average walk up - do you clean windows ? - this IS while you're standing next to a van with WINDOW CLEANER emblazoned in 3ft high lettering on the side!

we all have our own preferances - and in fact trad in some circumstances will be better than wfp - there's too much "its my way, or the high way" on here at times

Now just get your act sorted and wfp everything! 

Darran

[jonboywalton75]

we all have our own preferances - and in fact trad in some circumstances will be better than wfp - there's too much "its my way, or the high way" on here at times

If trad is better in some circumstances somebody other than me does it, I can't be bothered getting a squeegee out.
It really is, my way or the highway😂

[Missing Link]

If trad is better in some circumstances somebody other than me does it, I can't be bothered getting a squeegee out.
It really is, my way or the highway😂

We do a fair bit of well priced commercial work; offices and industrial units (with offices).

It means inside and out.  And some of them - the swanky new offices - have a lot of internal glass too.

While I much prefer doing outsides only, we'd be stupid to bin work this good because we've got to use a squeegy.

In a way we're lucky, having spent the first couple of years as a trad window cleaners, so we're handy with a squeegy.  It must be more of a problem if you don't know how to use one efficiently.

[jonboywalton75]

Yeah Commercial interiors are sometimes lucrative
I actually admit to doing the odd one
What i really meant was, when a householder asks for trad on exterior i flatly refuse
I used a squeegee for at least 10 years so I'm capable without being top!!!
I gave an inside clean on an office i do the exterior of, to my youngest son, £100 for just over 2 hrs is ok, and he's not lightning like me, he does a good methodical job