[simon mottram]

hi everbody iv been experimenting with using microsplitters and a fresh water rinse after using just in tank detergentets in the past , sometimes i get great results using microsplitters but others not so good, has anybody else experimented with microsplitters and gone back to detergents in tank  or vise versa any feedback would be very wellcome .

[jim mca]

What are you using to agitate and what micro splitters have you tried

[simon mottram]

spm and use floormac

[steve prince]

Micro splitters need a lot of agitation to work to there best!
Spm is a very good product and one I use a lot.
Have you tried adding a booster to it? i,e orange x or some thing similar ?
It can make a great difference  quite often

Steve

[simon mottram]

Do u prefer them to in tank detergents

[jim mca]

Simon

I prefer splitters and use a flexi5, Duo or Oreck for agitation I use a selection wool x, pure clean, heavy duty, SPM and DFC105 on mingers if I don't think after agitation I am getting the result I want then I add some extract x or formula 90 to the rinse if you try this with SPM then use plenty of de-foamer     

[wayne zabel]

I have never used in tank detergents on their own without pre spraying first.

I have always followed the rule of Prespray,aggitate,rinse.

Would/do in tank detergents on their own get a dirty carpet clean?

I'm wondering how when they are only in contact with the fibres for a few seconds

[Kinver_Clean]

Until a few years ago they were all we had to work with. Most carpet was done that way except real mingers when we put a traffic lane cleaner down first with a bit of a scrub. Then 'rinse' with in tank detergent. Pubs etc were always a bit of a nightmare, so we used a high (14.5) pH prespray and a strong acid rinse.
Now with the modern type of prespray things are much easier and better, leaving the carpet clean with no residue worth mentioning.
Some of the old stuff was pretty horrendous.

[Steve. Taylor]

Until a few years ago they were all we had to work with. Most carpet was done that way except real mingers when we put a traffic lane cleaner down first with a bit of a scrub. Then 'rinse' with in tank detergent. Pubs etc were always a bit of a nightmare, so we used a high (14.5) pH prespray and a strong acid rinse.
Now with the modern type of prespray things are much easier and better, leaving the carpet clean with no residue worth mentioning.
Some of the old stuff was pretty horrendous.

14.5 PH Are you sure

[john martin]

 Still dont get the logic behind the reasons why people would choose the ' microsplitters ' over the better detergent products available like formula90 or ultimate master  .

 From a bit of digging , the term ' Micro splitting ' is pretty much a made up nonsense word by German Günter Glöckner in the early 90s when he was trying to describe soil dispersion , and he was just trying to flog a cleaning product being pushed by a bankrupt american .

Remember micro splitter its just phosphate  , a common ingredient in more complex detergent mixes like ultimate master ... lately sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) seems to have been awarded the microsplitter title as well .

You guys are just making life harder for yourself using 'microsplitter '    .  It contains no wetting agent so u have to agitate and dwell more  .  You dont get the results you want on dirtier carpets so you try and improve it by adding orange-x ( di limonine solvent which the likes of formula90 already contains )  or various boosters which is just making into more complex detergent product .

The MS products only benefit the manufacturer IMO ... as its likely cheap as chips to produce .

[Steve9]

Totally agree with John Martin. Don't believe the hype...

[Jamie Pearson]

... as its likely cheap as chips to produce .

Amazingly!

[steve prince]

 Still dont get the logic behind the reasons why people would choose the ' microsplitters ' over the better detergent products available like formula90 or ultimate master  .

 From a bit of digging , the term ' Micro splitting ' is pretty much a made up nonsense word by German Günter Glöckner in the early 90s when he was trying to describe soil dispersion , and he was just trying to flog a cleaning product being pushed by a bankrupt american .

Remember micro splitter its just phosphate  , a common ingredient in more complex detergent mixes like ultimate master ... lately sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) seems to have been awarded the microsplitter title as well .

You guys are just making life harder for yourself using 'microsplitter '    .  It contains no wetting agent so u have to agitate and dwell more  .  You dont get the results you want on dirtier carpets so you try and improve it by adding orange-x ( di limonine solvent which the likes of formula90 already contains )  or various boosters which is just making into more complex detergent product .

The MS products only benefit the manufacturer IMO ... as its likely cheap as chips to produce .

I use spm amongst others
and I Don't need any thing other than water in the tank !

[Steve Chapman]

It always make me smile when some say that microsplitters work well but you have to agitate them well !

Why would opt for something that requires more work, that don't make sense !

I used them for a while when they first came out & soon went back to powerburst, You just can't compare the two !

Still, maybe some just like the extra exercise   

Steve

[steve prince]

I use a tm4 which makes it easy so I don't spend anymore time than is required .
Power burst doesn't even get used these days

[john martin]

 Still dont get the logic behind the reasons why people would choose the ' microsplitters ' over the better detergent products available like formula90 or ultimate master  .

 From a bit of digging , the term ' Micro splitting ' is pretty much a made up nonsense word by German Günter Glöckner in the early 90s when he was trying to describe soil dispersion , and he was just trying to flog a cleaning product being pushed by a bankrupt american .

Remember micro splitter its just phosphate  , a common ingredient in more complex detergent mixes like ultimate master ... lately sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) seems to have been awarded the microsplitter title as well .

You guys are just making life harder for yourself using 'microsplitter '    .  It contains no wetting agent so u have to agitate and dwell more  .  You dont get the results you want on dirtier carpets so you try and improve it by adding orange-x ( di limonine solvent which the likes of formula90 already contains )  or various boosters which is just making into more complex detergent product .

The MS products only benefit the manufacturer IMO ... as its likely cheap as chips to produce .

I use spm amongst others
and I Don't need any thing other than water in the tank !

Im not knocking your methods in particular Steve and there are lots of ways to get a good result .  What im getting at is  , what is the benefit to you in using the MS marketed products if the more complex cleaning  products can achieve the same or better results with less effort in more situations .
It a bit like heat ... you dont absolutely need hot water  , but it will speed a chemical reaction and get u the result with less effort in many situations ,  likewise you dont absolutely need several ingredients in your cleaning product  , but they are put there for a reason  , to speed up and improve the cleaning result .

BTW .   SPM has washing soda and bleach in it so it have deviated away from the other MS products that just contain phosphate  ...  so its almost a proper detergent  , not quite   

[simon mottram]

very tempted to try formula 90 powder, couple of questions is it safe on wool?,    is it best to use it in tank  or as a prespray?

[steve prince]

 Still dont get the logic behind the reasons why people would choose the ' microsplitters ' over the better detergent products available like formula90 or ultimate master  .

 From a bit of digging , the term ' Micro splitting ' is pretty much a made up nonsense word by German Günter Glöckner in the early 90s when he was trying to describe soil dispersion , and he was just trying to flog a cleaning product being pushed by a bankrupt american .

Remember micro splitter its just phosphate  , a common ingredient in more complex detergent mixes like ultimate master ... lately sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) seems to have been awarded the microsplitter title as well .

You guys are just making life harder for yourself using 'microsplitter '    .  It contains no wetting agent so u have to agitate and dwell more  .  You dont get the results you want on dirtier carpets so you try and improve it by adding orange-x ( di limonine solvent which the likes of formula90 already contains )  or various boosters which is just making into more complex detergent product .

The MS products only benefit the manufacturer IMO ... as its likely cheap as chips to produce .

I use spm amongst others
and I Don't need any thing other than water in the tank !

Im not knocking your methods in particular Steve and there are lots of ways to get a good result .  What im getting at is  , what is the benefit to you in using the MS marketed products if the more complex cleaning  products can achieve the same or better results with less effort in more situations .
It a bit like heat ... you dont absolutely need hot water  , but it will speed a chemical reaction and get u the result with less effort in many situations ,  likewise you dont absolutely need several ingredients in your cleaning product  , but they are put there for a reason  , to speed up and improve the cleaning result .

BTW .   SPM has washing soda and bleach in it so it have deviated away from the other MS products that just contain phosphate  ...  so its almost a proper detergent  , not quite   

I totally understand what your getting at  john .
And yes you are right with spm, it's just I find it works really well in most cases.
What is your main pre spray then john ?
Steve

[Carpet Dawg]

Mixed with hot water then put it in your tank. Can also be used effectively as a pre-spray but its been designed as an in tank detergent.

Yes wool safe.

[simon mottram]

is it simular to prochem crystal green or more advanced than that?

[steve prince]

F90 is the best selling detergent!
It has several dilution ratios, one being wool safe

[Simon Gerrard]

We use SPM on the vast majority of domestics and rarely agitate it. I think this agitation, dwell time thing is a bit of a myth with ms's.

Simon

[john martin]

is it simular to prochem crystal green or more advanced than that?

F90 would be similar to crystal green .

They both contain  ... washing soda ( sodium carbonate )
                                   Alcohol Ethoxylates
                                   EDTA

F90 has some orange oil  ( d-limonene )  also .


Steve . I mostly use the Chemspec range as its easy for me to get .

[steve prince]

We use SPM on the vast majority of domestics and rarely agitate it. I think this agitation, dwell time thing is a bit of a myth with ms's.

Simon

If I had your truckmount simon I think I might be the same 

[Carpet Dawg]

is it simular to prochem crystal green or more advanced than that?

Crystal green is a pre-spray.

[Simon Gerrard]

We use twin vac portables on certain jobs, some of them mingers in high rises and get great results every time without agitation. Warm / hot presprays do just as good a job at breaking up the soil.

Simon

[Simon Gerrard]

is it simular to prochem crystal green or more advanced than that?

Crystal green is a pre-spray.

No it's not, it's a rinse agent.
http://www.prochem-uk.com/shopimages/pdf/psss777.pdf

[Carpet Dawg]

is it simular to prochem crystal green or more advanced than that?

Crystal green is a pre-spray.

No it's not, it's a rinse agent.
http://www.prochem-uk.com/shopimages/pdf/psss777.pdf

Ooops I thought it was prespray lol.

[jim mca]

Formula 90 powder is not wool safe the liquid version is when diluted to the correct ratio 

[Carpet Dawg]

Formula 90 powder is not wool safe the liquid version is when diluted to the correct ratio 

I've got a lot of refunds to give 

[john martin]

is it simular to prochem crystal green or more advanced than that?

Crystal green is a pre-spray.

No it's not, it's a rinse agent.
http://www.prochem-uk.com/shopimages/pdf/psss777.pdf

Ooops I thought it was prespray lol.

I think most of these products can be both unless its a very high ph product that might not be suitable as a rince .

Probably should distinguish the rince purpose .
A cleaning rince i think the OP refers too  , thats up to the user  , personally i prespray and  stick a bit in the tank  .

As distinct from a specific rince product like an acid rince or something like liquid high heat that has some surfactant , acid and anti soiling polymers .

F90 might not be woolsafe approved but i think its fine at high dilution ratios .

[jim mca]

If formula 90 powder was safe for wool then chemspec would have paid for the endorsement the same as they have with the liquid version

[Carpet Dawg]

wool safe or not wool safe its a load of old cobblers.

I've been doing this thing for over 13 years and been using formula90 almost from day one. Never had a problem, knackard carpet or other wise. 1000s of carpets cleaned in that time.

I did turn a stain green once using "spray and go", apart from that everything has been golden.

[Carpet Dawg]

Its well known that the wool safe organisation has given Vanish the seal of approval. 

[gwrightson]

Its well known that the wool safe organisation has given Vanish the seal of approval. 

...................and rug doctor traffic lane spray , custy had used full bottle on entrance , what a mess.

Geoff

[peter maybury]

what ever prespray you are using it is a big benefit to agitate it can only break down soil that they come into contact with, so need to be dispersed throughout the pile.  Prespraying carpets is not a new thing it is something that I learnt on my first training course over 30 years ago.
There are still people operating out there without the knowledge of their existence.
Training is important. I know from experience that it takes no longer and will probably save time in the long run. The results are much better and for anybody using a truckmount you are going to use a lot less fuel if you use a battery sprayer.
If you do not agitate then go out with somebody that does and compare the results.
If you have nothing to compare something with it is very easy to convince yourself that you are getting the best results.
Peter

[garybristow]

i do like spm but i have noticed that after a decent dwell and agitation,any sortof black grease based spots dont seem to move,i tend to give them a blast of multi pro ,brushed in then extract with my tm
multi pro doesnt seem to get much attentiom on this forum ,i used it for 25 years,its simply brilliant  !!!!
in my humble
gary

[John Kelly]

It may come as a shock to some people but chemicals don't stand still . I have seen products described as old fashioned. What garbage. The main suppliers are continually re-formulating the range. We have monthly updates with changes to msds as the products change and update.

[ian harper]

detergents are far more advanced and have lots of additives, with the different types amphoteric, cationic, non-ionic, anionic. each dealing with different situations. 

http://www.carpet-cleaning-buzz.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-detergents/

[peter maybury]

Totally agree with you John but there are also a lot of new kids on the block that try to convince they have invented the wheel.
Peter