[drew86]

hi all going to order wfp system monday, can you all please help me decide on which system to purchase,it is really all down to the pump system ie: flojet on demand switch with flo control valve versus shurflo with varistream, your comments and experiences please. flojet set up works out cheaper but is it value for money do switches burn out.

[JM123]

Anything I've ever heard about Flojet has been bad - never worked with them but have worked with and built many systems using both Aquatec and Shurflo, both are really good pumps - personally I'd go for the Shurflo with the Varistream.

[sair]

dont like aquatec ,
flow jet no idea many seem to like them . i stick to sure flow with an....  eco flow!

[Andrew McCann]

This is my totally honest opinion.

I have no real experience with Flojet so I can't comment honestly on them. I have however supplied many varistreams to owners of Flojet pumps. The usual problem...  pressure switch burning out because of back-pressure in the line when using a "tap type" flow controller. I have also heard however of folks owning both types of pumps "getting away with it" for a year or two.

The varistream does more than protect the pump though. You will always get the flow you set at the varistream.. whether you are 10 or 100 metres away or/and 6 or 60 ft high. It senses the load required to give the flow rate selected and adjusts the pump speed accordingly. This means that the pump is only ever working at the minimum speed needed. You can still use an inline on/off valve for stopping flow. The great thing is that if you have stopped the flow when you open it again you will get exactly the same flow rate. This is difficult to achieve using a valve type flow control.

Another thing the Varistream does is cut down your battery drain very considerably.  Because the pump is only working as hard as it needs to in terms of speed you only drain an appropriate flow from the battery. We tested the 100 PSI 3.8 litre per min Shurflo  pump and at full belt which is what you will always use with an inline flow restrictor it was taking 7 amps.  At a flow rate of 1.5 ltr per min.. a good average flow rate.. it was only taking 1.9 amps.

So.. for me and my customers its always the tried and tested Shurflo and varistream.

Cheers

Andrew

[Alex Gardiner]

Whilst everyone will have their favourites and to be honest all set-ups will work, it all comes down to longevity.

 We have used Flojet's for 5 years with 'microbore' hose and flow control valves. I personally am still using my original 60psi flojet pump and have never had to replace the pressure switch on it. I also have a 4 year 100psi flojet pump working on the same set-up and have never had any problems, also I have a second 60psi flojet which I have had for 3 years and have never had any problems with.

In the last 3 years I have heard of many fellow window cleaners have 'worn' out shurflo pumpsand have since then switched to Flojets.

This in no way represents a scientific analysis of the two pumps and may be purely by chance that I have had the results I have had.

However I know which pumps I would want to supply a warranty on.

Varistreams seem a great idea, I personally have never needed one as I use microbore which controls my flow-rate very well.

These are only my opinions but I hope that they are of some use

Alex

[P @ F]

I  agree with Alex , i have my original Flojet 60 psi , been using it for over 18 months , never missed a beat , im running it through 75 M of microbore and am getting superb pressure , i wont be using any other make .
I dont use varistream , i have a simple return to tank valve with adjustable pressure on it .

 Rich   P @ F   

[abacus]

hi
Ive had both and had a lot of trouble with both however I got onto shurflo and the problem is the varients eg resistance created by the job hose fully out or half wound 50 mts of hose then 100 poles up high then poles down low restricting flow ect with taps the pumps like thing to be even the answer is the veristream from williamson pumps its soft start and comtol of the pump speed elliminates the problems not one conplaite since I fitted them to the vans and added benifit save water too.

regards grant

[pjulk]

I have a 60psi flojet in my omnitrolley and never had a problem with it.
Never used sureflow so can't comment on that

Paul

[jeff1]

Quote from alexg
Varistreams seem a great idea, I personally have never needed one as I use microbore which controls my flow-rate very well.

Question

I don't know the answer, and its not a dig, just an honest question,
but wouldn't useing microbore pipe, to control the flow, create a back pressure,on a pump that is already working at full pressure, problems of wearing out quiker?
No matter what pump you use.

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi Jeff,

Good question, however we have been using this microbore set-up for well over 3 years (were we the first using microbore??) and have never had a single problem with them, several of our fellow workers have used a similair set-up for about the same time with no troubles either. I think if you have a decent pump it can cope fine.

Alex

[jeff1]

Thank you alex

I'm still Traditional at the moment, and I am changing over to wfp this year some time,

I don't want to lay out the price of a new pump, and set it up with no protection, only to find it breaking down in a few months tiime, so that was the reason for my question.

Thank you for your reply it was helpfull.

[rugby]

i have used both and found the flojet to be the best pump by far,my 100psi flojet with varistream has been running now for over 14 months,no problems at all.would never go back to shurflow.

[Jeff Brimble]

Have been using floppy single thin wall 4mm internal, 6mmOD micro for 8 years with the small 35psi flojets (previously used the 100psi)and a by pass system. I like the back up service that http://www.dualpumps.co.uk  give with the flojets. They have a great catalogue.

[pjulk]

Alex Said -

We have used Flojet's for 5 years with 'microbore' hose and flow control valves. I personally am still using my original 60psi flojet pump

Alex do use use microbore just on maintainence cleans with a 60 psi pump.
The reason i ask is i use it on maintainence cleans but not on first cleans as i find i don't get a high enough flow for new cleans.

Paul

[Jack Avery]

Hello Everybody

I`ve just built my own system. 40/40 RO 600 ltr tank in van 100mtr microbore and 2 60psi Flojets 1 for the tank in the van the other on the trolley I built.
Both pumps are doing what they say on the packet. A good regulated on demand flow of water.

Jack Avery

[Alex Gardiner]

I use the microbore for everything first and regular cleans.
Alex

[macc]

Hi, im confused, you are getting hi teck for me. ive shurflo 100psi, Variestream & 6mm microbore. Is that a good combination or not? 

Macc

[Andrew McCann]

Hi, im confused, you are getting hi teck for me. ive shurflo 100psi, Variestream & 6mm microbore. Is that a good combination or not? 

Macc

Simple answer Macc.


YES... VERY GOOD 

Andrew

[Moderator David@stives]

Alex and others what flow rates are you getting on your 100m microbore.

I am running a sureflo 100psi pump and 100metres microbore and am getting 1.5 litres on max setting,

At times this is not good enough, only the other day i had some heavily salt sprayed windows in direct sunshine and i could have done with a bigger flow rate, also these windows were the beading type where a bigger flow rate would of been more beneficial

Dave

[Andrew McCann]

Dave

Have you recalibrated your Varistream? (I am assuming you have one)  You should be able to get much more flow than that.

Cheers

Andrew

[Moderator David@stives]

Andrew

The only calibration i know is the little blue dial inside, i thought that just increased the pressure and not the flow rate

Dave

[Andrew McCann]

DUHHH! 

You are right Dave.

Typed before engaging brain there   

Hmmmm something isn't quite right because I have a 100 PSI Shurflo,varistream and 100 mtrs microbore and easilly get 2 to 3 litres per min at max setting. I use the 3.8 ltr per min Shurflo so not much flow drop at all even with the hose fully extended.

Andrew

[Moderator David@stives]

Andrew

that is what i use the 3.8 litre a minute pump.

I last checked it with some faulty hose, i will measure it again later.

Are you definately sure you get 2-3 

Dave

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi David,

I have never checked the flow rate, but I find that I always seem to get enough flow rate.

 We also have 60 metre lengths of microbore in one of our vehicles and find that this usually gives us a higher flow rate if we ever need it.

I usually use my 100 metre length on a 60psi flojet and find this about right, I also use them on our trailer which has a 100psi flojet and this almost gives me too much water.

Alex

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi David,

I have just checked and the Flojet pumps have a higher flow rate;

The 60psi Flojet has a flow rate of 5.5 lpm

The 100psi Flojet has a flow rate of 7.6 lpm (We happily run 2x 100metres off of a single 100psi pump)

I suspect that this is the main reason that you struggle with Shurflo and microbore. I think that in this case the psi of the pressure switch has very little significance to your usage and would only really come into the equation when using very tall poles (hence the need for greater pressure), whereas the specific flow rate has an impact all the time.

I have great respect for shurflo (good backpacks!) and also for the varistream, but have found that a simple Flojet/microbore/flow valve set up just works and works (as do hundreds of others).

Hope that this has been informative

Alex

We happily run 2x 100metres off of a single 100psi pump

[Moderator David@stives]

I have just tested my hoses.

1 is 2 Litres a minute
2 is 1.75 litres a minute (slightly faulty hose)

Both are 100 metres of microbore ,and both tested on the same pump and system.

I converted this from pints

1  is 4.25 pints a min
2  is 3.75 pints a min.

I will do a better test over a 5 minute period.

Alex the reason i want a faster flow rate is for the salty, sun baked windows, like the other day, I had a few problems and was a nightmare rinsing especially on beading windows.

Dave

[Moderator David@stives]

I will investigate further.

Alex that is what the pump can deliver unrestricted is there any chance you can measure the flow rate through 100metres of microbore

Dave

[Andrew McCann]

Andrew

that is what i use the 3.8 litre a minute pump.

I last checked it with some faulty hose, i will measure it again later.

Are you definately sure you get 2-3 

Dave

Like Alex we always seem to have more than enough flow if needed. We normally use around the 1.5 ltr per nmin mark.  At this the varistream is set at just under half.

Actually Dave.. thinking about it again you CAN increase your flow rate settings via the blue dial. Yes it does set your pressure cut-out setting but if you turn it up it will increase that and also you max flow. After all it is a FLOW RATE device.

I would give that a go if I were you. Only turn it up one increment at a time though until you have it where you want it. No need to screw the lid back on to try it. Just run your hose out and stick your pole on the end and set it to what you need.

Andrew

[Moderator David@stives]

Andrew i have tried that and it does not seem to make much difference.

I think i will downgrade to a 60psi with a higher flow rate.

For me 2 litres a minute is ideal for most winows ,but i feel i could do with twice that for beading windows it will knock the spots of faster.

The trouble with beading windows is that the dirt travels down the window until it finds the next available bead and so forth and so on, On salty windows in direct sunlight this can be a real problem as i found out a couple of days ago.

The way i usually deal with beading is to wash the window in the usual way and to rinse i start at the bottom and move the brush up the window rapidly then as i get to the top i quickly pull away this way you create a temporary sheet which pulls the beads down with it. Then i go back to the top for a final rinse.

Dave

[macc]

Thanks Andrew.

The way i usually deal with beading is to wash the window in the usual way and to rinse i start at the bottom and move the brush up the window rapidly then as i get to the top i quickly pull away this way you create a temporary sheet which pulls the beads down with it. Then i go back to the top for a final rinse.

Dave

Thats a wicked idea, going to try it. 

macc

[Andrew McCann]

Errr thanks very much Macc.

It's actually Dave's idea though   

Wrth a try though

Andrew

[macc]

Errr thanks very much Macc.

It's actually Dave's idea though

Wrth a try though

Andrew

Thanks Dave, sorry, was up at 4.30 this morning to take my daughter to a car boot sale, not my choice, brain not working well.  :

macc

[Alex Gardiner]

David,

I will have a go at measuring the actual flow rates later on.

Alex

[Alex Gardiner]

David,

I have just measured the actual flow rates through a reel of 100 metres of microbore and then through 11 metres of pole hose exiting through 2x 2mm jets (standard jet size) and the actual flow rates are as follows:

60psi flojet = 2.1 lpm
100psi flojet = 2.65 lpm

Hope that this helps

Alex

[Moderator David@stives]

Thanks Alex

It is not far off what i am getting, I think i will set up a smaller 60 metre hose for situations where i need a bigger flow rate.

It seems that microbore really zaps the flow rate on all pumps.

No wonder my car has a 1500 psi brake pump t
o push the fluid around the brake lines, abs and traction control system ,it must be a nightmare creating that much back pressure down them break lines fast enough.

The flow rate on that must be 1 inch in micro seconds

Dave

[macc]

Hi, im confused, you are getting hi teck for me. ive shurflo 100psi, Variestream & 6mm microbore. Is that a good combination or not? 

Macc

Simple answer Macc.


YES... VERY GOOD 

Andrew

Thanks for this post i ment Andrew,  , i just worked it out.

Thanks Andrew.

The way i usually deal with beading is to wash the window in the usual way and to rinse i start at the bottom and move the brush up the window rapidly then as i get to the top i quickly pull away this way you create a temporary sheet which pulls the beads down with it. Then i go back to the top for a final rinse.

Dave

Thats a wicked idea, going to try it.

macc

sorry Dave, dudnt make it clear.

macc

[drew86]

Hi all thanks for all your advice, made a great thread i thought, anyway just ordered my system with shurflo varistream from Andrew McCann, great bloke lots of usefull advise and a good price, cant wait to get going now having just been made redundant from my 18 year job, anyway thanks again for all your help, sure i will be asking for your advice again in the not to distant future, time i got canvasing

[Jeff Brimble]

David do you know the Internal Diameter of your micro bopre hose please ?