Which machine?

« **on:** July 05, 2008, 11:57:56 am »

I am about to buy my first machine, but I can not decide between Powr-Flite from Cleansmart or the Advantage from Alltech, the Advantage I am led to believe can do hard floors and tiles by buying a new attachment, is there much potential to do hard floors and tiles? I can get a Powr-Flite in a couple of days but the Advantage will take 3 weeks, and on servicing the Powr-Flite I can get serviced locally but the Advantage would require a 2 hour trip every 6 months for a service, both seem to have pro's and con's but which one to choose!

If anyone uses one of these machines can let me know their opinions, I know there are a lot of other machines out there and some may be better, but I have narrowed it down to these two, based on my budget and location of suppliers.

« **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2008, 12:02:19 pm »

O.K just had another look at Cleansmart site and I am now also considering the Prochem Steampro 2000, so views on this one as well!

« **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2008, 12:29:08 pm »

Prochem pumps low PSI i would steer clear, have heard good things about Powerflite.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2008, 01:00:46 pm »

i would go with alltec all day long ive had a aqua for four years now no probs plus heater on machine as well

« **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2008, 01:05:53 pm »

I have had a Powrflite 1350 for 14 months now, it's a very good machine.
Big and heavy but easily loaded thanks to the handle wheels,
in that time with a lot of use , i've replaced a vac motor due to a leak
in one of the perfect heat coils, unlucky there. and replaced the eccentric bearing on the pump
which collapsed , which now gets greased every once in a while.
This machine will do you fine.
You can buy attachments to clean patios etc, to go with almost any machine, but you do need a good
pump and the Powrflite although badged CFR, is a pumptec 500 Psi.
I've also playing around built a booster, which increased airflow dramatically, unfortunatly
with high vacuum and high airflow it locks the wonderwand to the carpet, so only suitable on
certain carpets.
This machine makes my old Ninja look like a toy, and impresses the hell out of customers. They know you mean business.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2008, 01:45:26 pm »

Agree with Mark. Had a steampro and there is nothing wrong with it but having the adjustably higher pressure and heat makes a big difference to performance (especially if you are using pureclean or similar).

Pete

« **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:00:03 pm »

Powerflight is a high performance twin vac portable with 500psi pump. Excellent reputation in the industry. The Wonder Wand too has an excellent reputation.

The Alltec Advantage is a twin vac 135(?) psi machine and is a solid workhorse. It would not be suitable for any patio tile and grout cleaning.

Were you thinking more of the Alltec Advance? This is similar but with a 600psi pump.

The Prochem SteemPro is closer in spec to the Advantage, so inferior to the others you've mentioned.

IMO, you need at least 1000psi for tile and grout cleaning and perhaps as much as 3000psi for patios. Any less and the job becomes too slow to be a main line profit earner for your business.

Tools and other attachments within our industry are, on the whole, interchangeable. Sometimes you may need to change a QD fitting from male to female (or vice versa) to make different brands work for you. If you wanted to use a WonderWand with another brand of machine, you'll need more than 200psi, preferably 300psi plus.

If you have a smaller vehicle, the Alltec machines are a little more compact.

If I had to shoose from the above list, The Powerflight would just about nudge the Advance, but I'd be happy with either.

Safe and happy cleaning

Ken

« **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:51:53 pm »

I have a powerflight and it is impressive with the wonderwand.Also i get lots of people mentioning how big and impressive it looks.Regards Alan (swindon)

« **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2008, 04:16:47 pm »

Thanks for all the replies. Ken, yes I meant the Advance, very confusing when all their models start with 'A', hadn't quite woken up when I made my original post. I tested one on Thursday, very impressed, but have yet to see and test the Powr-flite, so I will make make my mind up after having tested it.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2008, 04:23:50 pm »

The new advance is very good with the 600psi pump in it, much better than the old advantage.

Support from chris and customer services is also great, never had a problem with anything from Alltec.

« **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2008, 05:18:39 pm »

If you go withh alltec youll be able to offer THE DEEPEST CLEAN EVER!

Sorry that was a joke before you all attack me.

« **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2008, 05:56:40 pm »

Hi Richard

I would agree with the comments regarding the powrflite, I have been very impressed with the performance only drawback is the weight, but once you get the knack of loading and unloading from the van its fine - just watch you bend your knees!!!

It will also easily work with 100ft of hose, so you should never have to lump it up any stairs.

Its a very impressive looking piece of kit, a good selling point in itself.

Paul

« **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2008, 09:58:25 pm »

Buy a Truck mount mate and put yourself in a truly competitive situation from the start. If you want people to take you seriously you have to set yourself up with the proper kit and in my experience people are feed up of people calling themselves carpet cleaners turning up with some mickey mouse machine. No disrespect to anyone, just my take on things.
Tom

« **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:16:05 pm »

Richard Why dont you get a demo of all the machine,s that you want to try and then make your mind up .The Weight of the machine is some thing i would look at as im always getting jobs from the truckmounters around my area when they can not reach a job The machine that i use is light but very powerful and does a great job 500psi Des ps try before you buy

« **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:23:28 pm »

Des, what machine do you have?

« **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:37:04 pm »

Richard Ive got the Scorpion 3 supercharged XPS 500PSI light but cleanes like a truckmount. Forget the tile cleaning thing you need 1000psi for that and i think they are bringing out a machine with 1000psi that you connect to the scorpion for tile cleaning .This is so the main machine stays light for taking up stairs when your doing flats Best machine ive ever had Des

« **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:43:14 pm »

My first machine was Prochem Steampro 200, I still keep it now for jobs where I can;t get in with tm

« **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:50:23 pm »

Quote from: Neil Grainger on July 05, 2008, 04:23:50 pm

The new advance is very good with the 600psi pump in it, much better than the old advantage.

Support from chris and customer services is also great, never had a problem with anything from Alltec.

The 'new' Advance is identicle in spec to the older Advantage

The only difference is the pump (bigger), and it looks uglier

« **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:12:22 pm »

Tom

What a load of rubbish, new starts are best to start at a low level as regards expenditure and its not always about the size of the tool its what you do with it. In today's market why spend out so much when none of us no what is going to happen and anyway I have sorted out a number of jobs that Truckmount users have messed up.

Kev

You are right about the pump, but boy what a difference it makes. You always seem to be knocking the machines from alltec or is it just alltec you dont like. I had a look at the scorpion the other day and its power is great but without the heater, i'm just not sure.

« **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:21:33 pm »

Hi Guys

All the machines mentioned have their pros and cons.

I personally would not buy a machine without heat, I know heat and runs can be used but in my view you want a machine which does the job without too much messing around.

As we know it all comes down to how the available power is used, 3 vacs no heat, 2 vacs heat.

Truckmounts are another issue altogether, much more power particularly for the big engines but also much higher cost.

As a newbie the option of going to a local supplier who can repair / advise is a big plus.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:54:32 am »

Quote from: Neil Grainger on July 06, 2008, 04:12:22 pm

Kev

You are right about the pump, but boy what a difference it makes. You always seem to be knocking the machines from alltec or is it just alltec you dont like. I had a look at the scorpion the other day and its power is great but without the heater, i'm just not sure.

Not at all Neil, just stating a fact. When a newbie needs advice I think its important to tell them the truth - especially in terms of marketing

I think Alltec are fantastic and their build quality is the best in terms of portys.

However that aside, they have become more expensive with chem's and parts and their range of portys are not the most powerful. But I'm sure you know that already $:-\$

« **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:03:00 am »

Quote from: kinder clean on July 05, 2008, 05:56:40 pm

Hi Richard

I would agree with the comments regarding the powrflite, I have been very impressed with the performance only drawback is the weight, but once you get the knack of loading and unloading from the van its fine - just watch you bend your knees!!!

It will also easily work with 100ft of hose, so you should never have to lump it up any stairs.

Its a very impressive looking piece of kit, a good selling point in itself.

Paul

Paul no Portys easily work with 100ft of hose without serious power loss.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:15:00 am »

Not many jobs call for more than 50 or 75 feet of hose ........ especially for new carpet cleaners!! I only carry a 50, 25 & 15 in normal circumstances so most machines capable of cleaning normal house from ground floor.
Most people want to build up profits/clients etc, before they go out and purchase equipment capable of more specific tasks

« **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2008, 12:14:00 pm »

Yes agree Chris i rarely go over 75.

« **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2008, 12:31:46 pm »

buy the highest speced machine you can afford its that simple because once your used to it ull only want a better one

« **Reply #25 on:** July 07, 2008, 01:02:44 pm »

Spot on Susan.

« **Reply #26 on:** July 07, 2008, 01:28:25 pm »

Sounds like good advice but for person known to have spent £40k on equipment in first 18 months ........ only to pass away ........ it was not worth that amount to his widow

Bit like saying i should buy a sportscar if i have the money ....... how often can i use it to it's fullest potential :

« **Reply #27 on:** July 07, 2008, 01:37:56 pm »

Hi Chris
Its just that I couldnt honestly advise anyone to go thro the back breaking days of having a machine that, yes, will do a decent job, but takes a lot of effort to get there.
Ive been there, done that, and dont want to wear the tee-shirt.
Much better, if they can afford it and within the bounds of sensibility (what ever that may be) to get some decent machinery that will last them a resonable time.

« **Reply #28 on:** July 07, 2008, 02:11:57 pm »

Appreciate that Joe and ALL advice is given based on any persons experience

I have been using porty for 26 years and i am in fairly good nick ........ not had a back ache for last 10 years with all the labour saving solutions and devices out there now

« **Reply #29 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:16:05 pm »

Thats exactly it Chris, invest in the quality gear and the job becomes easier.

The CFR500 Perfect Heat was the start of my "better" days, which have carried on with the Scorpion and now the TM. IMO opinion the wand makes a major difference.

« **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:29:47 pm »

If you purchase a porty with or without a heating system built in I would still recommend anyone buy an inline water heater to go with it. Get excellent temperatures and save bags of time waiting for custys tap water to heat up!

« **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:34:10 pm »

If I were anyone considering a new machine I'd look at the post about high pressure m/c. The new Texatherm unit will be THE m/c eveyone will want!

Gary

« **Reply #32 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:41:04 pm »

Then give us some details about it then.When is it for sale and how much is it.

« **Reply #33 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:43:22 pm »

Details to come shortly Darren,

why not give Texatherm a ring to find out??

« **Reply #34 on:** July 07, 2008, 06:10:36 pm »

What I find absolutely astonishing is that people still think that the investment required to buy an entry level Truck Mount is a lot of money.
My first TM cost £7,500 twenty odd years ago and today for that same amount of money you can buy a twenty first century truck mount. Add to that another £5k for a van and another few K's for accessories etc, that's a mere £15,000.
Where else can you invest so little and potentially earn SO MUCH money and not only that but start out with the very best equipment from day one.
Any entry level Truck Mount is well capable of doing £60 - £100,000 of work per year, that's one hell of a return on a mere £15k investment when other small businesses have to invest far more to earn much less.

Simon

« **Reply #35 on:** July 07, 2008, 06:20:59 pm »

Simon, you are forgeting the £15,000 on a truckmount will eat into alot of peoples marketing budgets on start up. Truckmounts are good marketing tools when you are in the street but without the Jobs when you start up thats a lot of money.

Spend £5000 on a good machine and then spend the rest on marketing to get the business going. Most people start this business without a big budget so to put it all into a machine without any work will see you go bust very quick.

Marketing is the most important thing for starting up, as long as the machine is good and you are good the rest will come.

« **Reply #36 on:** July 07, 2008, 06:58:10 pm »

Neil,
I was making a far broader point.
£15,000 to start up any small business is peanuts in this day and age, peanuts.
You are quite right, marketing is very important, so call it £20,000, that's still peanuts for any serious entrepreneur. Let's not forget carpet & upholstery cleaning is what, 90% profitable, that's 90 pence in every pound generated going towards overheads and yes, start up expenses. Some small business owners would kill for those kind of profit margins.
But if you look at the market a Truck Mount will offer a start up cleaner, he can do anything from lounge carpets and suites to cinema complexes and office blocks, could he reach those markets and be able to serve them properly with an entry level portable, no sir.
I'm not trying to make a Truck Mount case, I'm making a business case, a case any switched on business person should be looking at very closely indeed.

Simon

« **Reply #37 on:** July 07, 2008, 07:12:52 pm »

For the majority of Domestic work a portable is more than enough and cash is instant. Commercial is a different matter completely, Payment is 30 days at best but the bigger you go up the longer it take's to get paid. Plus its getting this work in when you are a new starter.

Unless you have £50,000 in the bank to carry all start upcost and the fact you will not work much in the first 6 months, £15,000-£20,000 is alot of money, even more so when credit is getting so hard to get.

Build the business first and then go big time on machinery, at least then you no you have the work to warrant such a expense as a Truckmount.

« **Reply #38 on:** July 07, 2008, 07:42:10 pm »

Neil,
I couldn't disagree with you more.
You're making a case for having a portable because you have a portable and so wouldn't dispense advice that is outside your own experience and that's fair enough, but don't be quite so quick to dispel what others with completely different experiences have to say.
The fact of the matter is that £20,000 to set yourself up in a business that is 90% profitable is peanuts in comparison to other small business set up costs where returns are far lower. Surely in the face of this economic downturn any competent business person with an eye on the carpet cleaning business would see the virtue in giving himself the broadest possible market appeal, instead of the narrowest. In a downturn / recession, businesses still have to look good to their clientèle whereas a domestic customer will far more easily cast aside the need to have their carpets cleaned because it is, for the time being at least a none essential.

Simon

« **Reply #39 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:37:45 pm »

you are making a case for a t/m because you have 1
t/m start up cost are in the region of 20 k ....i think we have agreed
new porty start up costs about 5-6k ....i own 1

i wouldnt dream of splashing 20k on a t/m ....yet..........
until i have enough work to demand a t/m......

running a business requires that you make the most money from the least expense. i dont have to own a t/m to do that.
i know that you are the worlds greatest cc ...who cleans all the cruise ships from here to brazil.....
but how can you expect a newbie to go and spend 20k on equipment then sit and wait for the work to come in??
imho
i think that you need to build up the business,work at it first.then see if there is any point in buying a t/m.

point taken that 20k is not alot to start a business...........if you have 20k

« **Reply #40 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:44:01 pm »

Neil
Just because I say something that you may not agree with does not make it RUBBISH. Clearly you are one of the many people in this buisiness with extremely small minds and even smaller businesses.
I used to think like you then I got as truck mount and went on to make some pretty serious money.
tom

« **Reply #41 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:56:34 pm »

spindle2k,
First of all it would be really nice if you came out from behind the spindle2k and do us all the respect of at least telling us your name, then would could all begin to respect you as a fellow professional instead of a faceless heckler.

Secondly, I started this business just exactly as I have stated above, that is why I now give it as advice to those who ask the same questions as I did thirty years ago.
You and others like you may not have the guts to 'go for it' from the very beginning and that is your choice but I know many people who don't clean 'cruise ships from here to Cairo' as you so eloquently put it who have built themselves fantastic businesses based on Truck Mount start ups. Just because you haven't done it, doesn't mean it cannot be done.

Simon (yes, that is my name, what's yours?)

« **Reply #42 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:00:48 pm »

Simon

But you must have the work to make that £20,000 pay for the equipment. I earn good money from this now with a portable, but dont feel the need to have to own one to do the work. I'm a one man band who works 4hrs a day cleaning and take home a very good wage every week with a portable. I have no staff issues, no fuel costs, and I am happy

If you've never had one(Truckmount) you dont miss it, Yes I would love it but dont want to spend £20,000 when we dont no what is going to happen with the economy.

Simon, you work in a luxury market of Crusie ships, which need a Truckmount, I work in a world of Domestic and the occasional large commercial job that dont. Most of us work in my World. I would love to have one, do I need one, No. Do my customers like the job I do with a Portable, Yes.

If most of my work is commercial I would have a Truckmount, but domestic just does not need it.

« **Reply #43 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:12:20 pm »

Tom

I make high end 5 figures and am very happy but I dont have a small mind or small business, I earn as much if not more than alot of truckmounters. You can earn very good money with portables and I do. Truckmount does not mean more business, it will make it easier if I had one, but its not that hard even with a portable is it.

I took some great advise from Dave Liahona in Jan and since then my business has gone mad, Get in with your Interior designers as they get you loads of work at high end prices

I have 3 holidays a year, pick my daughter up from School, have a great life that I love. Just because I dont have 5 Truckmounts 10 staff and am turning over a million a year does not make me small minded or small in business.

« **Reply #44 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:15:18 pm »

Neil,

You're right I do work in the cruise ship market and I of all people know just how fortunate I am to have the job that I have for lots and lots of reasons that I won't go into.

But how do you think I got here? By mistake? Good luck? Good fortune? An act of god? Because that is how you make it sound. What none of you want to accept is that I had to work my way up, not from the top, but from the bottom, the very bottom.
None of what I now have came to me easily, or by luck, good fortune and definitely not as an act of god, but by damned hard work and total and utter dedication to getting my business to where I wanted it to be.
If your business is where you want it to be then you are every bit as a successful as I am. Who can ask for more from a business.

Simon

« **Reply #45 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:18:54 pm »

Simon, can I ask how many hours a week you work for what you earn?

You are right, I am very happy with life these days. I spent 15 years working for major IT companies, My work friends from that background think that I am mad as I could be earning 6 figures but I would have to be doing 80hr weeks, never seeing my Wife and kids and never really being able to do the things I want to do even with all that money.

How much money is enough?

« **Reply #46 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:22:56 pm »

Spindle
It is not unrealistic to enter into this business with a t/m. I did it and know and am in regular contact with a dozen cc's who did the same. All of them running profitable businesses.
I think the flaw in your post is: " How can you expect a newbie to spend 20k on equipment and then sit back and wait for work to come in".
If you take your investment seriously, you don't wait for work to come in. You darn well go out and get it. If that is not on the agenda, yes then invest in a bucket & brush.

Neil
Yes, Simon cleans the Cunard liners. Could he produce the same finish with portables, maybe, probably. But he has a time constraint. None of the luxury of it takes as long as it takes to clean the carpets. Portables probably are not an option.
Transfer the time issue to yours or my clients, be it commercial or domestic. Assume we both produce the same finish, I can clean more carpets than you in a set day. That means extra revenue, initially to pay for my larger investment & then substantially larger profits. Not just because I can clean more square meters per day but also because I get to pick up the jobs where time is an issue

« **Reply #47 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:25:01 pm »

Neil,
No!
Why?
1) Because it is none of your business.
2) Because I could be lying through my teeth, as could you.
3) Because I want to save you the embarrassment of trying to beat it!

Simon

« **Reply #48 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:38:28 pm »

My point exactly, each of us has different goals, and our successes will be different.

Yes their are lots of Business owners that go for it from the start with a Truckmount, but their are also lots of truckmounters out their selling up after 6 months. As their are with portable users. If their was a set pattern for this business we would all be doing it.

Sorry if I have upset you, but I just wanted to air my views that a Truckmount is not the only way you can make money in this business. Most Truckmounters seem to think this is the only way.

We could go one with this subject all night.

« **Reply #49 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:40:36 pm »

simon

my name is chris....other people on here also know my real name!! i have even met some of them!!

as for faceless.....cant you see my pic........

i dont think its about " guts"....i think that it has to be economically viable for you and your family!!!
when you started simon all those years ago were you buying your house? were you even married with kids??

what works for 1 doesnt work for all..........

why do you always have the same argument simon? other people are allowed to do things differently without you hammering them into thinking they "need a t/m" to do a good job
if everybody did it like you....... how much work do think you will have with all those extra t/m running around.... dont think that your "market"will decline with so many great t/m around?? or do you believe that you are guaranteed the work for ever??if i called to some of your bosses and promised to undercut you while giving the same standard of work ..where does that leave you?

not having a go but you always bang on about the t/m everytime some asks about a machine you go on a sermon.......and wont let other people have an opinion

elliot
didnt mean literally sitting and waitng for the work .......yes you do have to go and get it.........but you are not going to get it for a few months/years untill you build it up...
i

racing drivers start driving karts as kids before they progress to an f1 car!!

« **Reply #50 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:45:04 pm »

oh btw

you havent told us yet in this post how you were the first person ever to import an rx20

20 yrs ago

« **Reply #51 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:49:58 pm »

Neil

No you haven't upset me. If there weren't opposite views on any subject, the forum would be pretty mundane

Spindle

Noted. Guessed you didn't mean it literally

ps. Don't know who first imported an RX but do know that Shaun Ashmore was the first to use an imported glide in this country

« **Reply #52 on:** July 07, 2008, 10:20:51 pm »

Chris,
Thanks for the name, it makes all the difference.

The prime difference between you and me is that I have experienced both sides of the coin, where you clearly have not. You only assume your point of view has some validity because you have never actually owned a Truck Mount and therefore everything you say in relationship to one is nothing more than pure conjecture.
One thing that has always baffled me is why the portable lobby feel so well informed about a technology that they have no direct experience of and then try to argue the toss with people who have been where you are with a portable, saying all of the clichéd things that portable operators always say when confronted with a Truck Mounter, trying desperately to justify why they don't need one, even though they know that they do.
Do you honestly think that people would shell out tens of thousands of pounds on TM's if there were not some good sound, business, economic case for doing so, or is it the case that only those who have no direct experience of the same situation are miraculously better informed than those who have.
Do yourself a favour Chris and talk to us about things you actually know something about.

Oh, and BTW, did I mention that not only was I the first person to have the original RX20, 21 years ago, I was also the first to have the first of the heat exchange technology truck mounts, the Prochem 75HE and then the first to have a twin capable heat exchange Truck Mount, the Prochem 800A and the first to take delivery of its successor, the Prochem Performer Bear Catalytic, the first catalytic truck mount. And then more recently the first with the new High Efficiency RX20 and most recently the first company in Europe to operate the Hydramaster Titan. Now you, Chris will just think I'm bragging, whereas others will see the steady thread of commitment to being at the very forefront of technology and the really generous will quite happy concede that on the Truck Mount front, this guy probably knows what he's talking about, but do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I am sure you will.

Simon

« **Reply #53 on:** July 07, 2008, 10:39:14 pm »

Yes Paul I was the 1st to have a glide on my wand and also the 1st to have a RDM but I didn't think anyone knew that

Neil I wish i only worked a 4 hour day! My missus insists I stay out for much longer.

I make a 7 figure amount £4/8/4d

Shaun

« **Reply #54 on:** July 07, 2008, 10:45:26 pm »

No Shaun. That's 3 symbols, 1 letter and only 3 figures. Business ain't that hot then!

« **Reply #55 on:** July 07, 2008, 10:52:57 pm »

Francis I have to digits pointing at you now

Shaun

PS we are all poor in Yorkshire

« **Reply #56 on:** July 07, 2008, 10:54:20 pm »

« **Reply #57 on:** July 07, 2008, 11:18:01 pm »

Shaun has the first of lots of things including his first shilling.

« **Reply #58 on:** July 07, 2008, 11:28:53 pm »

And first in his class to get a disease

« **Reply #59 on:** July 07, 2008, 11:52:00 pm »

Sorry was not meaning to brag at all, it just upsets me that some think that us portable CC businesses are not in it to make money or we are not any good.

Shaun, thats 4 hrs cleaning, Quotes and office work are extra's. 20hr a week cleaning is more than enough.

Dave liahone was a big help to me with his insight into generating business., even for us portbale users.

« **Reply #60 on:** July 08, 2008, 12:14:05 am »

I'm totally sold on the idea of a truckmount having worked with Dave Liahona last week. I saw first hand how you get offered more work on the back of the results/time/drying and you ain't knackered at the end of the day.

However, let's think about who the average newbie is to carpet cleaning. Are they someone with £40k burning a hole in their pocket or someone who needs to make some money but has no trade and no money.

From day 1 you are not going to have people beating your door down if you are totally new to the game, even if you did have a T/M.

I wish I started when I could have easily have bought a T/M new van etc all for CAAASHH, but would i no, I waited till I'd spent it all, bumming around for 2 years, ah hindsight :

But alas for those with £40k in the bank I don't think Carpet cleaning is on the radar. Notable exeptions are ex forces or early retires.

« **Reply #61 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:09:26 am »

where this 20k come from, i got my t.m ready to go for 4,400 pounds

what do you earn stuff ill tell you what our t.m. earnt last year ...........it took 147.98 aday working on a six day week ! ok not a lot i here you say but the porty it replaced did 79.00 aday

what did its cost me in repairs

520 pounds this year and most of that was fuel going to oxford ! and a new cluth for the transit

so be four you number crunshers do your maths it ,may not of earnt a crap load of cash but its doing the job we got it for starting work at 9.30am and finshing at 230pm where there was no way of doing this with a porty

as most people know we are at the lower end market at the min and working up too better prices and custy, its seems tobe going well at the min and am sure we will get there , so please if anybody wants to hear what a truck mount realy costs with out all the hype and chest beating then i am more then happy to spk too people buy phone

i also run a good few vans at DHL now i just went out a got a new 08 lwb sprinter costing me 23k it earns 125 aday (day rate) of which 50-70 worth of fuel goes in aday its now sat with 33,000 miles on the clock and needs the side painting due to me knocking down a lamp post so whats the van worth now 15k ish work them numbers out

ive spent over 1500 pounds on it so far this year on two full wing mirrors, t,bar, front bumper, and six new tyers a set of pads and shoes that with out its serviceing

you will see buying a t.m. doesnt look that bad after all trust me

julian

« **Reply #62 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:13:53 am »

Susan

I know they are out there good deals on Truckmounts, I was just trying to make a point that you dont have to have one to have a succesfull cleaning business.

Of course it would be very nice to have one but its not essential to make this business work.

For me this business is more about Getting the work the machinery is secound to that, without the work you dont make any money.

« **Reply #63 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:44:48 am »

All this talk about successful portable operators, where are they ?, who are they ?
Move importantly what exactly do you term as successful ?.

« **Reply #64 on:** July 08, 2008, 01:49:06 pm »

Here i am

:

Successful .......... indoors but 380 pounds heavier, 25 days holiday coming up, supplier to Parliament, Green Business award winner (X3) , most CC's know me or of me (good or bad), featured in magazines and newspapers ............. i am in mine and my family's eyes and that is what counts as far as i am concerned

« **Reply #65 on:** July 08, 2008, 02:30:49 pm »

Chris,

I couldn't agree with you more. If you have all of the bits that make you and yours happy and content that you can't ask for more than that.

Simon

« **Reply #66 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:07:08 pm »

Here I am also,

Just arrived home £300 better off than this morning, also done a quote for a domestic house clean to the value of £636 in Ewhurst, Surrey from a recomendation of a Job i did last week. All this with a portable. Home by 4 today.

I even know 2 succesfull NCCA directors who use portables and make very good money.

« **Reply #67 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:11:25 pm »

And here I am, making a lot less money than the last two, but then I don't need to. Making a living and my quality of life is much better than when I worked in an office two years ago.

Been in the garden since 12 today, going to Goodwood festival of speed at the weekend!

« **Reply #68 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:14:45 pm »

One of the best days out you can have, even the car park is wonderful.

« **Reply #69 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:18:50 pm »

Any entry level Truck Mount is well capable of doing £60 - £100,000 of work per year, that's one hell of a return on a mere £15k investment when other small businesses have to invest far more to earn much less.

Hi Simon
The figures you gave of £60 - £100,000 of work per year is that from one person using the TM like a sole trder or several people in a company with staff who do the cleaning so working the machine for more hours.

« **Reply #70 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:33:51 pm »

Hi Ray,
£60k is only just over a grand a week and that is well do-able by one man depending on how much you charge etc. £80k is only £1,500 per week and that too is well in range for one man provided you're well organised and perhaps have some helpers available to you for the bigger jobs.

Don't forget, the single biggest advantage of a Truck Mount over a portable is its ability to clean much faster and much more efficiently leaving you far more scope to earn money. It also gives you a far wider potential market and in these days of economic uncertainty it would be foolish to restrict your available market by buying a machine that can't cope with the bigger, dirtier jobs which often need to be done to a deadline. TM will also give you the ability to pressure wash and do hard floors and so are far more versatile than a portable, all of which means that yes, you have to invest more but the returns on that investment are so much more.
£15 - £20,000, perhaps a lot less if you're willing to have a second-hand TM is peanuts in comparison to the start-up costs of other small businesses.

Food for thought.

Simon

« **Reply #71 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:42:17 pm »

So Simon what you are saying is in times of uncertainty, go out and spend £20k

« **Reply #72 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:52:43 pm »

No Mike, I am not, I'm merely trying to keep my answers within the spirit of the original question, Which Machine?'

It would be complete folly to invest in a machine that can only take you into a certain percentage of the available market when other machines could provide you with a far broader market and provide a far bigger return on investment.
Perhaps the honest answer to the question is that if you cannot afford what it takes to set yourself up with even a second-hand TM then perhaps your wisest move would be to do nothing and sit the coming economic storm out because if your going to relying on domestic customers to keep your business afloat, you may be disappointed.

Simon

« **Reply #73 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:02:41 pm »

Hi Guys

The biggest thing which holds us back is ourselves, Simon is relentless in his advocacy of TM's but this is because he genuinely believes that is the best way to be successful.

I have certainly been guilty of resting on my laurels, but since the internet came along I realised I did'nt have to be a small town CC but now travel fairly widely doing much more inetesting and rewarding work.

A lot depends on how the prospective machine is going to be financed, if it's all on credit then it could get very tough, if however there is cash then much more likely to succeed.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #74 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:12:03 pm »

I make a very nice living with a porty, charging good prices, however TM very tempting as i am not getting any younger and i could sqeeze in a extra job with a TM.

However will have to convince the Boss first $:-\$

« **Reply #75 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:12:20 pm »

Very hard times ahead but it could mean people will clean and not replace.

I would think very hard if i was starting again now. I'm 5 years in now and its only been the last year that it is really taking off, most of the changes made to make it grow have come from great advice on this site.

« **Reply #76 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:28:55 pm »

Best advice is to diversify. Why restrict yourself to carpets and upholstery when there are a multitude of services which need cleaning. Not much different just slightly different kit and processes but plenty of help on here and elswhere if you want to try your hand at owt.
Obvious one is drives and patios, ready made customers from your carpet cleaning jobs. Hard floors, again in the same homes or better still in commercial premises, these jobs can run into thousands of pounds.
Facias, petrol stations, drive throughs, stables, kennels, catteries, kitchens, windows, conservatories, air conditioning ducting, drains, picnic sites, toilet blocks, deep cleans in pubs, how many times have you stuck to the bar? the list goes on and on.

« **Reply #77 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:45:26 pm »

John

Funny you should say that because had a thought that the people who seem to be doing well seem to have a very small niche like Dave Liahona and his A listers, Simon Gerrard doing his boat thing. But yes, you are right and I'm really please I'm doing leather now and quality rugs.

« **Reply #78 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:54:09 pm »

Direction, Direction, Direction. That is the key (along with heaps of motivation)

« **Reply #79 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:14:52 pm »

Pete, get yourself a satnav. Were all those bottles there.

« **Reply #80 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:24:15 pm »

John

What do you think is a reasonable spec/setup for getting into pressure washing?

« **Reply #81 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:41:48 pm »

Mike,

You make a very valid point indeed.
I know lots of people in this business that have carved out very good niche markets that provide them with a very stable and profitable business.
One guy works for a small group of hotels, some of them national companies but they use him as opposed to contracting out the work because he offers them a bespoke personal service they can't get anywhere else. He even rights out his own order!!!!
Another guy does exceptionally well in the insurance market cleaning up after fires and floods and his business is almost recession proof and very lucrative indeed.

As you mentioned Dave Liahona has developed his niche market and I know Nigel Woodhead has been very successful in picking out specific corners of the market in which to work.
Again this all points to researching your market and making sure you have the tools to get you where you want to be.

Simon

« **Reply #82 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:43:49 pm »

Quote from: John Kelly on July 08, 2008, 07:14:52 pm

Pete, get yourself a satnav. Were all those bottles there.

Well I ordered lots and there were lots so I guess the answer is yes. Bit more than 4 or 5 boxes.

Cheers

« **Reply #83 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:55:00 pm »

Mike, for pressure washing minimum is 3000 psi, 15 litre minute. This will cope with most jobs. Married to a turbo lance and flat surface cleaner. Lower pressure machines will work but like carpet cleaners will take longer.

« **Reply #84 on:** July 08, 2008, 09:36:55 pm »

Thanks John

« **Reply #85 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:54:04 pm »

It has a 2000 psi pump and 15 litres a minute flow which makes it adequate for light pressure washing ie concrete, facias etc but for stone and block paving you really need the extra pressure to get rid of the Algae growth.

« **Reply #86 on:** July 09, 2008, 11:51:21 am »

may be time for a training corse jhon im sure manywould look into this but just need to see it done by one of ourselfs not the gods

« **Reply #87 on:** July 09, 2008, 06:09:42 pm »

Don't need a course for pressure washing. Pretty straight forward. Just have to learn what substrates not to use too high a pressure on. Basically start low and wind it up until it starts cleaning to the desired affect.