[Tony T]

I'm after some advice.
My Scorpion 3 Super- Charged has a Triple 3 Stage Vacuum system.
Today, whilst doing a carpet cleaning job, the mains of the house i was working at tripped out. I have never had an issue with the machine before and as i always connect the machine's 2 power leads to 2 separate 240v outlets (2 separate circuits) i assumed it was a fault with the customers house electrics so we reset the trip and i continued with the job. After another few minutes it happened again so i changed the 240v outlets i was plugged in to. The mains didn't trip again so i assumed it was the house and carried on. However, as i was finishing up and packing away i smelt the smell of electrical burning and so tested each pump of the machine. I noticed that Vacuum 2 (operated by the 2nd of the 3 vac switches - located on the front of the machine) when switched on was arcing (i could see something flashing over in the front bottom right vent but it was still working.

Can anyone suggest what the issue may be and how i'd go about getting it sorted?
Thanks.

[Robin Ray]

If it was arcing it suggests that water has got on the motor somehow either through one of the vents when you were filling or from a fitting inside the machine leaking. I would have a good check of all the fittings inside the machine and on the waste tank. It will also need a new motor.

[Mark Slaney]

  Probably the brushes have worn down. Don't buy a new vac motor till you've checked them as brushes are a few quid compared to a new vac motor. Easy to change as well.

[Robin Ray]

Yes it is worth checking, But I doubt worn brushes would cause arcing and a burning smell.

[Mark Slaney]

Yes it is worth checking, But I doubt worn brushes would cause arcing and a burning smell.

I'm sorry but that's exactly what you would get from worn brushes.

[Robin Ray]

Mark on further research your right and I am wrong.

I have had the same symptoms from water spraying on to the vac motor through a cooling vent though which made me think of it.

[Tony T]

Thanks for the info guys.

I've tested the machine today and it is definately a fault with vac pump 2..  now i've taken the water tanks off i can see the pump clearly flashing-over inside it when it's switched on.

I've noticed a couple of potential water leak points that i'm going to seal up first as Robin has suggested and i guess i'm looking at a new pump.. though i'll try Mark's 'brushes' option before that.

What exactly are the 'brushes'? and where are they?

[Robin Ray]

The Brushes are sprung carbon sticks which provide electrical contact with the motor. They are the two square bits which stick out the side of the motor. As the motor spins round they wear down and will eventually loose contact making the motor cut out.

[Carpet Dawg]

Here you go Tony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5ffhfqZU

This one is a bit more detailed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5ffhfqZU

I always find that once the vac has stopped working, then changing the brushes doesn't help.

[Tony T]

Thanks Carpet Dawg.. i'll try the brushes option first as it looks a fairly straightforward process.

[John Kelly]

If you allow the brushes to get too worn then it normally damages Armature requiring a new motor.

[des]

I had this problem .give nick a call at solution,s

[Tony T]

Thanks again for all the advice folks.

I've changed the brushes... but whilst the motor is turning and operating it's still flashing away like it's Nov 5th and i can still smell electrical burning.

When i changed the brushes and switched the motor on it caused the house sockets fuse to blow so i reset and switched it on again and left it to run a few moments. It didn't trip out but continued flashing away.

While the lis was off the motor i could see the copper windings had a darkened look to them - not black and obviously burnt - but not shiny copper either.

Looks like a new motor is on the cards unless anyone knows anything different???

[john martin]

   http://www.carpetcleanersstore.co.uk/product/vacmotor1

[Tony T]

Thanks.


My current motor is a Lamb Ametek Vacuum Motor 3 Stage 240v ( http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/carpet-cleaning-machines/machine-spares/lamb-ametek-vac-motor-3-stage-240v.html ) which looks a lot bigger than the Lamb Vacuum Motor 3 Stage 5.7" ( http://www.carpetcleanersstore.co.uk/product/vacmotor1 )


Is there a difference and are they interchangable?

[Robin Ray]

Tony, they are the same motor just pictured from different angles.

[Tony T]

Are you sure? They look totally different to me.
The one thats currently in my machine looks nothing like that, it looks more like http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/carpet-cleaning-machines/machine-spares/lamb-ametek-vac-motor-3-stage-240v.html. You screw the exhaust hose on flush via 4 screw holes.. and there are not even screw holes on the http://www.carpetcleanersstore.co.uk/product/vacmotor1 one.

[john martin]

Are you sure? They look totally different to me.
The one thats currently in my machine looks nothing like that, it looks more like http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/carpet-cleaning-machines/machine-spares/lamb-ametek-vac-motor-3-stage-240v.html. You screw the exhaust hose on flush via 4 screw holes.. and there are not even screw holes on the http://www.carpetcleanersstore.co.uk/product/vacmotor1 one.

That particular shot you posted is probably rotated before upload so it give an illusion that its long .
Those Ametek 5.7 are all the same  , only option is 'with ' metal hose connector flange  or ' without '
http://www.carpetcleanersstore.co.uk/category/motors

I think u need the hose connector otherwise you machine might be a plastic adaptor on the end of its vac hose that u glue or screw to the motor .

Not sure what u mean by the holes for the exhaust , but it doesn't come with the motor , probably drilled to hold screws to stop the exhaust hole slipping out .

[john martin]

 Perhaps u mean the Vac connector not the exhaust  ... 

 Is your Vac hose held in place with one of these ....

http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T1005-Slip-Hub-Flange/dp/tech-data/B0006MRR9O

In that case u have to apply a bit of silicon for a seal and carefully drill the four holes for the seft taping screws ...
but if the hose goes on to the motor with metal connector , dont see the need to use the plastic one .

[Tony T]

Yes, my mistake.. i mean the Vac Connector (to the tank) not the exhaust.

And yes, it is one of these (or similar)..
http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T1005-Slip-Hub-Flange/dp/tech-data/B0006MRR9O

If i buy a new one then ill do as you suggest.

Many thanks guys.

[Mark Slaney]

  Tony if you buy the vac motor from solutions i comes with the holes already drilled. Then you just swap the flange over from your old motor. You can drill the holes your self if you buy elsewhere, it's up to you. Don't think its the same as that one of Amazon as that says 3" and your should have 1.5" internal hose on the scorpion. If you don't have the old flange for some reason i think i've got one knocking about somewhere i can send you.

Mark

[john martin]

  Tony if you buy the vac motor from solutions i comes with the holes already drilled. Then you just swap the flange over from your old motor. You can drill the holes your self if you buy elsewhere, it's up to you. Don't think its the same as that one of Amazon as that says 3" and your should have 1.5" internal hose on the scorpion. If you don't have the old flange for some reason i think i've got one knocking about somewhere i can send you.

Mark

Mark , i know that Amazon link was not the exact one  , just an example .
but i cant think why he would go to the trouble  ( not that is much trouble )  of refitting the plastic  connector when like u say  the 1.5" internal hose is used and will slip onto the Vac with the metal flange  ....  secure with a jubilee clip  .

[Mark Slaney]

  John,  I used to have a scorpion and had the same problem. The internal pipe was siliconed onto to the flange and i couldn't separate it. So i bought the vac with the metal flange and then the pipe wouldn't fit over it. I ended up replacing the hose with an 1.5" hose and a couple of jubilee clips.

[john martin]

  John,  I used to have a scorpion and had the same problem. The internal pipe was siliconed onto to the flange and i couldn't separate it. So i bought the vac with the metal flange and then the pipe wouldn't fit over it. I ended up replacing the hose with an 1.5" hose and a couple of jubilee clips.

yes , that was the best thing u could have done  , and replacing all the internal hose with 1.5"  would be good  , i think it came with 1 1/4 " hose

ED.V  talks  CFM CFM CFM   all day long  ....  and then goes and fits internal hose smaller than the diameter of the Lamb motor  opening