[William Sharpe]

Hi guys. I have a brick driveway and patio areas quite large areas, last time i used a pressure washer which was time consuming and splattered debris mostly sludge and moss every where. is there a chemical that will kill the moss between the bricks and get the bricks looking good again without using a pressure washer.

[Kevin OBrien]

hypochlotite, I get from the Dairy farmer about £16 for 25lts I mix will 50/50 spray one and leave let the rain do the rest. Wear wellies.

[Kev Martin]

Jesus I am losing the will to live

I assume Kevin you mean Sodium Hypochlorite?  If so it is used by Dairy Farmers to primarily Disinfect.  It is not stable  (or safe) as a cleaning product when used at those ratios!

Sodium hypochlorite
General information
Key Points
Fire
•
Non combustible under normal conditions
•
Emits toxic fumes of chlorine when mixed with acidic or alkaline solutions
•
In the event of a fire involving sodium
hypochlorite, use fine water spray and wear
liquid-tight protective clothing with breathing apparatus
Health
•
Exposure to sodium hypochlorite may arise due to ingestion, skin contact or splashes
in the eye; exposure to chlorine gas may occur by inhalation
•
Toxic by all routes
•
Corrosive
•
Short-term ingestion may cause burns to the mouth and throat, and sickness
•
Short-tem inhalation may cause irritation of eyes and nose, sore throat, cough, chest
tightness, headache and confusion
•
Short-term eye exposure may cause pain, watering eyes and sensitivity to light
•
Short-term skin exposure to household produc
ts is unlikely to damage intact skin.
Long-term exposure may cause irritation, swelling and blisters
•
Sodium hypochlorite is not thought to cause cancer
•
Sodium hypochlorite is not thought to cause damage to the unborn child
Environment
•
Dangerous for the environment
•
Inform Environment Agency of substantial release incidents

Apart from the above I rest my case

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
Marblelife Ltd

[chris scott]

hypochlotite, I get from the Dairy farmer about £16 for 25lts I mix will 50/50 spray one and leave let the rain do the rest. Wear wellies.

At least you recognized the fact that you need ppe in the fact you suggested wellies!.
Go and buy some Algon or similar from B&Q ,follow the instructions...the results will be better and far safer!
Click here http://www.algonorganics.co.uk/

[Kev Martin]

Hi guys. I have a brick driveway and patio areas quite large areas, last time i used a pressure washer which was time consuming and splattered debris mostly sludge and moss every where. is there a chemical that will kill the moss between the bricks and get the bricks looking good again without using a pressure washer.

Pre wet the brick work and then use a high alkaline cleaner with a 20 minute dwell time.  Then scrub using a soft to medium brush onjh a Mono Rotary and agitate.  Use a little honing powder if required then vac up, rinse thoroughly and vac again.  If there is any moss or algae still on it you can repeat the above process or use a mild Hypo spray then scrub and rinse thoroughly.

1.  You won't need wellies
2.  You don't need 50/50 Ratio
3.  You probably won't need Hypo at all
Finally if you do need to use hypo make sure every trace of Alkaline has been cleaned out of your vac and off your brush nor you will get a foaming reaction if they mix.

Always do a test area first!!!  TEST! TEST! TEST!


Kev Martin
TIling Logistics Ltd

[Rob Hall]

Jesus I am losing the will to live

I assume Kevin you mean Sodium Hypochlorite?  If so it is used by Dairy Farmers to primarily Disinfect.  It is not stable  (or safe) as a cleaning product when used at those ratios!

Sodium hypochlorite
General information
Key Points
Fire
•
Non combustible under normal conditions
•
Emits toxic fumes of chlorine when mixed with acidic or alkaline solutions
•
In the event of a fire involving sodium
hypochlorite, use fine water spray and wear
liquid-tight protective clothing with breathing apparatus
Health
•
Exposure to sodium hypochlorite may arise due to ingestion, skin contact or splashes
in the eye; exposure to chlorine gas may occur by inhalation
•
Toxic by all routes
•
Corrosive
•
Short-term ingestion may cause burns to the mouth and throat, and sickness
•
Short-tem inhalation may cause irritation of eyes and nose, sore throat, cough, chest
tightness, headache and confusion
•
Short-term eye exposure may cause pain, watering eyes and sensitivity to light
•
Short-term skin exposure to household produc
ts is unlikely to damage intact skin.
Long-term exposure may cause irritation, swelling and blisters
•
Sodium hypochlorite is not thought to cause cancer
•
Sodium hypochlorite is not thought to cause damage to the unborn child
Environment
•
Dangerous for the environment
•
Inform Environment Agency of substantial release incidents

Apart from the above I rest my case

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
Marblelife Ltd

I may be missing something here, but I am sure someone will correct me.
I will go through the reasons why your will to live has been lost..

1. Fire.
(Don't smoke or use any matches etc)

2. Non Cobustible...
(Meaning...not able to burn, contradicts point No 1)

3. Toxic fumes
(As this is being used outside, I am assuming that this point is irrelivant.)

4. Fire is mentioned again.
(Not too sure why as the product is non combustible).

5. Makes sense to wear some protective clothing.

6. Don't  drink it.

7. Corrosive
(Good, it might work on your brick driveway)

8. Don't drink it.

9. Again, wear suitable protection

10. Ditto

11. Short term exposure does not cause harm to skin
(Thats good then)

12. Not thought to cause cancer is always a bonus

13. Even a pregnant woman can use it.

14. Dangerous to the environment
(Don't throw it down the drain, probably best to dilute it as much as possible. This point is the only reason why I can see that you have lost the will to live??)

15. Informing the environmental agency....common sense??

So, not that bad a product then?

[Kevin OBrien]

hypochlotite, I get from the Dairy farmer about £16 for 25lts I mix will 50/50 spray one and leave let the rain do the rest. Wear wellies.

A general purpose hypochlorite based sterilizing product for farm use. Used for the disinfection of milking parlours, equipment and surfaces. From a the website.

What are the applications of sodium hypochlorite?

Sodium hypochlorite is used on a large scale. For example in agriculture, chemical industries, paint- and lime industries, food industries, glass industries, paper industries, pharmaceutical industries, synthetics industries and waste disposal industries. In the textile industry sodium hypochlorite is used to bleach textile. It is sometimes added to industrial waste water. This is done to reduce odors. Hypochlorite neutralizes sulphur hydrogen gas (SH) and ammonia (NH3). It is also used to detoxify cyanide baths in metal industries. Hypochlorite can be used to prevent algae and shellfish growth in cooling towers. In water treatment, hypochlorite is used to disinfect water. In households, hypochlorite is used frequently for the purification and disinfection of the house




Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-sodium-hypochlorite.htm#ixzz2h9zR3t4y

[Kev Martin]

[/quote]I may be missing something here, but I am sure someone will correct me.
I will go through the reasons why your will to live has been lost..


Rob

You are missing something "The Point".  If you think it is safe and stable to advocate the use Sodium Hypochlorite at these ratios then carry on! 

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
Marblelife ltd

[G O Cleaning]

hypochlotite, I get from the Dairy farmer about £16 for 25lts I mix will 50/50 spray one and leave let the rain do the rest. Wear wellies.

At least you recognized the fact that you need ppe in the fact you suggested wellies!.
Go and buy some Algon or similar from B&Q ,follow the instructions...the results will be better and far safer!
Click here http://www.algonorganics.co.uk/

Chris, curious why have u reced this opposed to likes of moss go etc having looked at spec yet

[G O Cleaning]

Hi guys. I have a brick driveway and patio areas quite large areas, last time i used a pressure washer which was time consuming and splattered debris mostly sludge and moss every where. is there a chemical that will kill the moss between the bricks and get the bricks looking good again without using a pressure washer.

trouble is doesn't matter what chem you chose the moss will take a long time to break down, once it's killed and look unsightly will the custy accept that?
Your description is slightly vague ie brick driveway patio assuming its block paving / sanded p washing has to be best solution 

[Kevin OBrien]

You are missing something "The Point".  If you think it is safe and stable to advocate the use Sodium Hypochlorite at these ratios then carry on! 

Kevin what are you saying you should not use this full stop or, what are the correct ratios .There is some well known products that we all use mentioned on here   and we do not use the correct dilution ratios because if we do they are like P**s.  Some fella asked about cleaning his Patio I gave a response And you jumped on it like a TRAMP ON A KIPPER  there is about 20 fellas from the golf club who use it this way no one had a problem.

[Rob Hall]

I may be missing something here, but I am sure someone will correct me.
I will go through the reasons why your will to live has been lost..


Rob

You are missing something "The Point".  If you think it is safe and stable to advocate the use Sodium Hypochlorite at these ratios then carry on! 

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
Marblelife ltd
[/quote]Ahhh, Good Morning to you too Kevin.
First point...I don't use it' never have...probably never will.
When I saw your words...Jesus..and...Losing the will to live...,I thought...there must be something really dangerous about this stuff, as I know a large amount of Farmers using EXACTLY the same some, I was compelled to read on...Especially as you were losing the will to live..I had to know why...what is so bad to cause this?

I learnt, from you, that, it burns...it doesn't burn??? Not sure about if it burns or not??
It dosen't cause cancer, it doesn't harm the unborn child...
It doesn't cause any harm to skin

It DOES seem to irritate if you pour it in your eyes or down your throat, my advice is DON"T!
Any if you spill hundreds of gallons down the drain, tell the environment agency (but isn't that true with anything? Even some Aqua Mix will cause some concern I would think??)

My point is/was...why did it cause such a reaction from you?
I am not sure if the original poster said that he was going to mix it with something that would blow the whole of western Europe off the face of the earth, but I can only think that Aqua Mix dont sell this product yet??

[Kev Martin]

Rob

You seem more concerned about what chemicals I sell than anything else.  I import and stock Aqua Mix for one reason only and that is so that Marblelife Ltd have a constant stock of the product.  The selling of it to others is an add on!  We are not Tilie Doctor we don't push it on courses, we only say this is what we use.  I don't care if nobody in this World ever buys a bottle off us again as long as we have it to use!  It is the best and currently there is IMHO nothing on the market to touch it.  Believe me 100's have tried to replicate it and no one has succeeded to date.  Aqua Mix don't sell Hypochlorite but neither would their Ethos allow them to sell it and the Californian Statutes would not allow them to produce it either.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

[Rob Hall]

Rob

You seem more concerned about what chemicals I sell than anything else.  I import and stock Aqua Mix for one reason only and that is so that Marblelife Ltd have a constant stock of the product.  The selling of it to others is an add on!  We are not Tilie Doctor we don't push it on courses, we only say this is what we use.  I don't care if nobody in this World ever buys a bottle off us again as long as we have it to use!  It is the best and currently there is IMHO nothing on the market to touch it.  Believe me 100's have tried to replicate it and no one has succeeded to date.  Aqua Mix don't sell Hypochlorite but neither would their Ethos allow them to sell it and the Californian Statutes would not allow them to produce it either.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

No, Kevin, the Aqua Mix was a jokey thing hence the smiley face. I just don't know why you lost the will to live? The stuff seems ok to me and apparently the rest of us??
I repeat, I have never used it, probably never will. I don't get asked to do brickwork. My work is mainly Sandstone...Limestone...Travertine cleaning and my diamond brushes don't need Hypochlorite, in fact, diamond brushes just need water, thats the beauty about them.

[Kev Martin]

Rob

Diamond brushes do work well but you have to think why?  They work well because they take a few microns off the surface and therefore by definition removing those micron brings anything that is attached to that top surface off with it.

However if you try a standard wire cup brush that is knotted and add some of our Honing Powder that also acts in the same way so you have a mechanical stiff brush but instead of the strands being impregnated with diamond the abrasive honing powder replaces this and also abrades a few microns off the surface.  Extensive testing by us has proved this to be fact.  I am not knocking diamond brushes but when you start going up into the bigger ones the cost also escalates as well.  Testing with a 17" Brush also proved that the diamond brushes outlast any other brushes but this comes at a cost.  We have found much better uses for Diamond Brushes which is why we have been trying to develop them to our own specification.   This said the R&D has proved costly but we are close now!  Sorry to bang on but we avoid the use of hypo whenever possible but even if we were to use it then we would never advocate the use of it in a 50/50 Ratio either.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

[Rob Hall]

Rob

Diamond brushes do work well but you have to think why?  They work well because they take a few microns off the surface and therefore by definition removing those micron brings anything that is attached to that top surface off with it.

However if you try a standard wire cup brush that is knotted and add some of our Honing Powder that also acts in the same way so you have a mechanical stiff brush but instead of the strands being impregnated with diamond the abrasive honing powder replaces this and also abrades a few microns off the surface.  Extensive testing by us has proved this to be fact.  I am not knocking diamond brushes but when you start going up into the bigger ones the cost also escalates as well.  Testing with a 17" Brush also proved that the diamond brushes outlast any other brushes but this comes at a cost.  We have found much better uses for Diamond Brushes which is why we have been trying to develop them to our own specification.   This said the R&D has proved costly but we are close now!  Sorry to bang on but we avoid the use of hypo whenever possible but even if we were to use it then we would never advocate the use of it in a 50/50 Ratio either.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

Try honing powder on a Sandstone or slate floor blathered in years worth of Lithofin Slate Seal, it simply does not touch it. I have tried all kinds of "removers" they do not remove it as quick as the brushes, some do not touch it. Xylene removes it but it is highly flammable, I have used this in the past due to desperation and it worked well, but I would not recommend it due to its volatile nature.I recently did a Yorkstone floor covered in years worth of...what looked like yacht varnish, I tried two 'leading' removers (names witheld to avoid any embarrassment ) they got nowhere near.
Sorry Kevin, Diamond brushes are the only thing that does the job (for now anyway) also, there is nothing wrong with the removal of a few microns of the 'old floor' as this gives you only one thing....A NEW ONE!!
I am not too sure if your wire brush comes in different grades? Wire and water sounds like a future rust problem to me, something that diamonds wont do.
Great post this, I hope it does not turn into mud slinging, I for one am always interested in new products and ideas

[Kev Martin]

Rob

Do you only read only the bits you want to read

Read the post again!  The wire brush was only a comparison!  In the real World you would use a Tynex/ Winnex or SIC Brush plus the honing powder!  I only mentioned the small wire cup brush so you could compare to your little diamond brush that was all!  Finally Aqua Mix Sealing & Coating Remover will remove LSS!  I have removed 5 Coats of Ronseal Yacht Varnish with it on a real floor not a test area!  It took a whilke and 2 applications but it did it!  Patience is a virtue my boy

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

[Rob Hall]

Rob

Do you only read only the bits you want to read

Read the post again!  The wire brush was only a comparison!  In the real World you would use a Tynex/ Winnex or SIC Brush plus the honing powder!  I only mentioned the small wire cup brush so you could compare to your little diamond brush that was all!  Finally Aqua Mix Sealing & Coating Remover will remove LSS!  I have removed 5 Coats of Ronseal Yacht Varnish with it on a real floor not a test area!  It took a whilke and 2 applications but it did it!  Patience is a virtue my boy


Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

Opps, I read it as if you were using the 'wire' brush, obviously my mistake

I tried the very same product Kevin, (AMS&CR) with no success at all. How long did you wait?
The floor I had to do was 30sqm, how much AMS&CR would you need for 2 applications?
I also used WAX OFF (Lithofin) in a word..... TOSH!

[Blast Away]

Rob, Kevin OBrien, & William, Kevin doesn't sell hypo therefore he likes to tell you what you should be using. What you should be using is exactly what he wants to sell you.

[Kev Martin]

Rob, Kevin OBrien, & William, Kevin doesn't sell hypo therefore he likes to tell you what you should be using. What you should be using is exactly what he wants to sell you.

Lee

Not only do I not sell Hypo, I don't sell Brick Acid either or any other nasty chemicals!  I do however, buy Hypo and other nasties and use them when necessary but at the correct dilution rates, with full PPE, correct disposal afterwards and in an appropriate situation when called for!  The whole point of the original post was someone asking how to clean a drive and you Should Not Really be using Hypo at 50/50 dilution rates that's my point!

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[Kevin OBrien]

Before I purchase some more Hyp Kevin what would you use,???

[Kevin OBrien]

William asked a question about Driveways I gave him an answer on what I use,no one else have replied to the quesion of what to use, just not what to use (Hyp).What do you use on driveways.

[Kev Martin]

William asked a question about Driveways I gave him an answer on what I use,no one else have replied to the quesion of what to use, just not what to use (Hyp).What do you use on driveways.

Kevin

I have covered this dozens of times but here we go:

PICK THE DIRTIEST AREA TO DO A TEST PATCH AS FOLLOWS:

1.  Pre wet the stone with plain water!
2.  Take your Klindex Rocky and fit it with Soft to Med Brush!
3.  Fill the tank of the Rocky with diluted high alkaline cleaner suited to the DEGREE of soiling on the drive! (I use Aqua Mix Heavy Duty Tile & Grout Cleaner!  You can use whatever make of High Alkaline you want)
4.  Allow it to dwell ensuring it stays wet then agitate with Rotary and vac up.
5.  Then rinse and vac again.
6.  Seal with water based penetrating sealer (I use Aqua Mix Penetrating Sealer or Aqua Mix Sealers Choice Gold but you can use what you like)
7.  If after your test area at stage 4 it is not clean then add some honing powder (Preferably 220 or 320 Grit) and agitate again and then follow steps 4, 5 & 6.
7.  If there is still some moss or lichen (Unlikely) then use  a spray of diluted Hypo and allow to dwell and then follow steps 4, 5 &  6.

NOTE  MAKE SURE THERE IS NO HIGH ALKALINE LEFT IN THE VACUUM AND THAT YOU HAVE THOROUGHLY RINSED IT OUT OR YOU WILL BE GETTING A FOAM BATH

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd