[Clive McDonald]

What is interesting, not that anyone asked me, is that two businesses can make a lot more money than one business.

I started the wc to get out of retail, or to at least earn £200 pw extra to subsidise something that was in decline. I've done a bit better than this, and the original business still has legs.

I didn't figure this out it just happened. I knew about the dual income syndrome of course because that is a driver for a lot of people having wc, ironing, home pizza deliveries etc, but it didn't occur to me that i could benefit. I always thought that one good biz was all that was needed.

Two little uns pitched under the 65k limit can beat a big un.If you've got a good lifestyle and then you get 30k chucked at you on top this can make everything that much more worthwhile. Of course there is a bit of effort involved.

[Oakley Windows]

Discount your last 2 posts have sounded like you're a teenager texting a hoodie. Ive been trying to see things from your angle.

Help!

[matt]

without sounding like i am defending ewan ( because that is the furthest thing from my mind )

have you thought that he ( and others ) might just deliver the leaflets in a evening when its dark and they cannot clean windows, so why pay a lad 5 quid a hour to deliver when you can do it yourself for free ?  ? ? ??

LOL I don’t need defending, everyone is entitled to air there views even the sad ones who take things far to emotionally.

 

i wasnt, i was just pointing out to david that its possible to deliver flyers / leaflets without it meaning you stop window cleaning

[WCBusinessCoach]

Wow.

Seems like this is an important subject...

The only reason I popped on here was because someone else started talking about me, and my webtraffic program showed me the link to this thread, so I joined up, and provided some answers to some solid questions.

I am not afraid of questions, since they lead to the truth.

Someone telling the truth fears no question.

However, for those seeking only to set me aflame publicly, please don't ask if you don't want to know. It wastes YOUR time, and OUR time.

And it burns a bit.



The bottom line is, if I was selling you something for 1000 pounds that earned you 10000 pounds, it would be an amazing deal.

Some of you would never see beyond the price, thinking "that guys a jerk trying to ask me for my hard-earned money", but the insightful WC business owner would correctly identify it as an unbelievable opportunity.

It seems that everyone here is in one of these 2 groups:

1. Skeptical Rejectors
2. Cautiously Optimistic Considerers

Which group are you?

Oh - and instead of replying to the TONS of comments below, I'll wait until you guys ask me something directly. since this conversation is getting a little busy, with everyone on board...

[peter holley]

nice books in the background! : i have them too

i like your enthusiasm... and i havnt subscribed yet... i had a peek at the seminar...and yes !good advice! lay of the tools and concentrate on marketing!

its a lot different over here though.... but i will chew over what i have heard

regards
peter

[Paul Coleman]

Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO

im not sure why Kevin R closed the tread

i was finding it interesting, and allways open to NEW ( and sensible ) idea's

Yes, it was interesting.

One of the things I found didnt 'add up' was this subject on Kevin Dubroskys site regarding pricing. I became immediately sceptical of him and his approaches after reading his pricing structure for the following job

How much do you think you could charge to clean the windows of a small, 950 square feet bungalow with 8 main floor windows + 3 basement windows? And let’s say that you would also clean their eaves for them (and it would take you 10 minutes to do that) . Actually, let me go one step further, and show you the actual house I’m talking about.

Here it is:



How much would you charge to clean these windows?

Many of my competitors would price that job at $125.00 or maybe $150.00 if they’re feeling good that day.

This is not a fancy neighbourhood and this is not a fancy house.

We priced this job at $400 + tax, and the client was delighted to pay it. Delighted. Not because they’re foolish or naive, either, but because we understand what our clients want, and we operate our business in a way that focuses on satisfying these demands.

Now correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt $400.00 equate to something like £200.00 for what is a window clean and 10 more minutes work (which is what he has stated).

I dont know, but to me, and maybe Im just too soft, but realistically speaking, isn't £200.00 for 30 minutes work (the 10 minutes for the eaves and 20 minutes? for the windows) taking the p?

In this country you'd have Matt Awright on your case with those rates.

Matt

In that part of the world they tend to clean once or twice a year.  It usually includes in and out plus removing and cleaning bug screens and maybe a few other things that I'm not aware of.

[williamx]

I have a good business venture.

I will subcribe to "the coach" marketing plan, I will pay my monthly fees.

I will then translate this into UK english (biro=money not pen) then I will sell this to anyone for say £10 per month.

[David Slater]

David Slater, Going around delivering leaflets is something I did when I first started, and will most likely use this marketing style alone someday in the future.

But I am a lot more focused now broad sweeps are to time consuming and there returns are not good enough for me.

How much I spend on marketing each potential customer I couldn’t afford to market many thousands of potential customers. Instead I market fewer but get much better returns.

Hope that makes sense.

Not really. Would you care to give examples?

Are you saying you're a salesman and not a window cleaner? Thats fair enough....if you have deep pockets and are able to concentrate soley on marketing while subsidising the window cleaning workers/vehicles/equipment while the business develops.

I presume you do subsidise the window cleaners while you're developing the work? Unless you're saying your strike rate and prices are so effective that you can hit parity in one clean?

If you can’t understand that, then there is no point in explaining further.

You have raised some good questions; all you have to do is answer them yourself. Just knowing the answer isn’t always enough, comprehension is just as important.

There plenty on here who will tell you all about some huge corporation and how they should improve that business!

Plenty of answer but no comprehension.

So you're not willing to give examples Ewan?  :


Matt,

I'm sure its totally possible in the beginning but...

Lets say you're cleaning one day per week and leafleting four days per week. Hopefully that leafleting will develop work.
So now you're cleaning two days per week and leafleting 3 days per week and you get more work, so you're working three days and leafleting 2 days etc etc etc..until eventually you're cleaning five days per week.

Now what?

How do you grow or refine the round if you're 'trapped' working five days per week?

If the prices you charge and the original plan didnt build a cost in for someone to take on that role, can you find the money (out of your profit) to pay for it?

My point was, yes you can do the role in the beginning but if it works, then you'll outgrow the role very quickly (not enough hours in the day - something has to give!)

[WCBusinessCoach]

Okay, so I just recorded a quick little video to address some of these questions and issues as easily and efficiently as possible.

It's just for you Cleanitup guys!

http://forumvids.s3.amazonaws.com/cleanitup/index.htm

[williamx]

I have a good business venture.

I will subcribe to "the coach" marketing plan, I will pay my monthly fees.

I will then translate this into UK english (biro=money not pen) then I will sell this to anyone for say £10 per month.

That's because you counldn't come up with it your self, right?

I could very easily come up with a monthly marketing package that would generate more business to every cleaner if they follwed my advice.

To get all of this information is not a hard thing to do, just go in to your local library, there are hundreds of books about marketing, just make a note of some of the advice they offer, adapt it to the window cleaning industry and the sell it as the magic cure.

I very strongly agree that marketing is an effective tool for any business man to have, but a package of ideas that are freely available that are bundled into a package and sold the general market is not the best you can do for your company.

Every single window cleaner on this forum are different they all run their business in different ways, some only want to work part time, some only want to do shops while others want to target council estates while other want to go future up the hill.

We are all different and marketing should be more personal to their businesses and their own requirements, if they want to spend money which will be of benefit to their company then they should go to a company that will know everything about their business and can give a more hands on approach to the advice they give not waste their money on something that is freely available in their local library or window cleaning forum.

[WCBusinessCoach]

I could very easily come up with a monthly marketing package that would generate more business to every cleaner if they followed my advice.

Talk is cheap.

Sounds like you consider yourself and your advice to be pretty amazing. Perhaps you could provide an example of just such a world-class marketing piece you've created?

One, even?

Of, course, I've written a 218-page, book, filled a blog with around 60 posts, and made countless videos from scratch, and just released a 39-page newsletter filled with examples.

But apparently, compared to you, I know nothing.

Stop hiding in the bushes, and come and play.

I'm not fooled.

Did you ever earn $32,000 in one month? How about within the first 4 years in business? Working part-time?

Have you ever landed a $30,000 window cleaning job? From a billion-dollar construction company? Ever had them tell you that it was because of your marketing materials?

Ever managed to get away with charging 4 times as much as a local competitor? How did you do it? Do you know how to repeat the feat?

Have you ever given another window cleaning business owner in a city far away one of your window cleaning marketing materials, and helped them achieve amazing results with it?

Have you had WC owners who themselves earn millions of dollars in their business give you a public endorsement of the insightfulness and effectiveness of your ideas and tools? Ever had WC'ers worldwide rave about how much of a difference your specific advice has made to their business?

You're certainly allowed to have an opinion, and I respect your right to do so.

When it comes to reasons for your statements, however, I hear only whining.

Am I missing something?

[matt]

WCBC

i made this post on the other thread

my take on marketing ( and i guess the idiots here will say " you dont understand OR your just a small time window cleaner who will allways be nothing, your not worth bothering about ), but hey ho, i will post anyway

marketting to the commercial clients, yes great, give me a few idea's, infact im sure 90 % of window cleaners would say that, thus i guess it would just cancel itself out as we would all be doing the same marketing and trying the same tricks to land that contract, as i can sqeeze a little more commercial stuff in the early mornings or late nights

marketing to the domestic market, does it work ? ??  as i have a wide range from a small 6 quid cottage to a big 220 quid house, they are mainly around the 10 - 12 qiud mark though ( the 3 / 4 bed homes ) , now how to i pick up more work, it mainly goes like this :

mrs smith asks friend / next door etc if they have a good window cleaner, they get told to phone my number, i answer the phone and it allways goes like this : hey Matt, ive been recommended to you by mrs johnston, the phonecall continues and i normally pick up the job with whatever price i give them, the reason, they know im trustworthy as mrs johnston told them ive done hers for 6 years

now ive used flyers in the past for the houese between the houses i do, it says something like this "

WINDOW CLEANER

we clean other properties in your area and we are currently taking on new clients, this will be intill our books are full, act now to ensure we have space

i then right on the rear, we clean number 10 , 14 and 16 ( lets say they are number 12 )

this gets them thinking on a few levels  :

Oh all around me are having clean windows, they might think im scruffy because i dont

i can trust him as he does the houses around me

they might ask nextdoor about me, who will of course say, yes he is a great guy


now this is marketing in my eyes, it works, i know as ive built up a very compact round of customers



kevin R replied :

IMO - Thats effective Marketing

Could it be improved?- Im sure  Kevin D the Window Cleaning Coach will comment.

What about if you go into a new area? would a different marketing approach will be required? if  so maybe thats why testimonials and guarantees are important?




now thats a positive post towards me from kevin ( a rare thing indeed  )

now in a different area it wouldnt work in my eyes, the reasons :

i use the idea that neighbours are having them cleaned ( they are ) so the person will not want neighbours to think they are dirty ( etc ) because they have unclean windows, keeping up with the jones is a saying we use here

they also think because i clean the neighbours they can trust me ( they can )

anyways, i would be interested in your thoughts on the marketting of the houses i need to fill in the gaps in my round ( very few these days to be honest )

[mark dew]

Thanks for the promotion Matt, quite true I do use an alias, the reason being is that in the past I have been abused on here by people who only intend to be critical and have no real interest in helping anybody.

I found the video by chance on youtube, and yes I think it's far too fast to give a quality service.

yep, it's a pity that some feel forced to change their identity. But i can't blame people for doing it.

Regarding the clip, if that was a 1st clean i'd be going back to check later when dry. But for a maintenance clean i thought that technique was spot on.
I clean using similar technique and time. 

[williamx]

Talk is cheap.

But your talking is not cheap, its £300 a year

Sounds like you consider yourself and your advice to be pretty amazing. Perhaps you could provide an example of just such a world-class marketing piece you've created?

One, even?

No I am not amazing, and the most amazing world class pieces I have created are my 2 daughters.

Of, course, I've written a 218-page, book, filled a blog with around 60 posts, and made countless videos from scratch, and just released a 39-page newsletter filled with examples.

But apparently, compared to you, I know nothing.

That is fine for you and for anyone else who wants to write books, I don't, but if I did it would be a good one.

I did not say that you don't know nothing, everyone has experences and knowledge that they can pass on to others that will benefit them

Did you ever earn $32,000 in one month? How about within the first 4 years in business? Working part-time?

When I was 17 (30 years ago) I started a new job as a door to door salesman, my mom died the same day I started, I had a few days off then went back to work, in all the time I was with them I didn't earn less than £1000 per week, I was not paid a salary it was all commision, the reason I was thsi good was beleif in myself.  I had and still have a positive mental attitude.

I also started a market trader stall up with just £10 and sold this business for £14000 2 years later, it had a turnover of £500 for a 3 day week.

Have you ever landed a $30,000 window cleaning job? From a billion-dollar construction company? Ever had them tell you that it was because of your marketing materials?

No but I do have quite a few contracts from muti-nationals companies that are priced extremely well, in fact none of my work is underpriced.

Ever managed to get away with charging 4 times as much as a local competitor? How did you do it? Do you know how to repeat the feat?

Yes

Have you ever given another window cleaning business owner in a city far away one of your window cleaning marketing materials, and helped them achieve amazing results with it?

I have given lots of advice to loads of cleaners that if they use will generate results for them[/color

]Have you had WC owners who themselves earn millions of dollars in their business give you a public endorsement of the insightfulness and effectiveness of your ideas and tools? Ever had WC'ers worldwide rave about how much of a difference your specific advice has made to their business?

Yes I have had many people on this site and others thank me for the help I have given them

You're certainly allowed to have an opinion, and I respect your right to do so.

When it comes to reasons for your statements, however, I hear only whining.

Am I missing something

Yes you are.

You are not giving all of this advice because you are a nice guy and you want to help your fellow window cleaners, you are a business man who has no other motive than to make money out of your new business venture, which is perfectly ok but the advice that you are charging for is also out in the public domain the only difference is its free.

It is also flawed, if every cleaner only targeted propertys that they can charge 5 times their normal rates, whats happens when then run out of propertys to target or what happens to the cleaner when these customers sudderly find they cannot afford a window cleaner anymore because they are broke and there is a world wide ression going on, and he loses all of he clients to other cleaners who are charging more realistic prices.

[Oakley Windows]

     just noticed your name change again !!

Dont delete THIS account!!

[AuRavelling79]

So Kev from Canada wants to earn some bucks by promoting his marketing ideas. Fine - if his stuff costs £300 a year and I use it and make some good business decisions then he wins. And I win too.

If Alex Gardiner puts up a good pole and sells them to us and he makes (say) £Xgrand while doing it then he wins. And his pole users win too.

If Ionics sell a system for £X grand and some uy it and make a good livelihood then they win. And their user wins too.

I personally am not motivated enough to put money into any of their pockets because I do not see the need for any of their products at the moment. But if my fishing pole wears beyond repair then Alex will probably be my first call.

If I see the need to increase my business then Kev the Canuck ( ) may well get my business.

I don't think I'll ever see the need for an Ionics system ...

Now just because I am not motivated to get off of my backside and do more in marketing doesn't mean that others won't - so "good luck" to Kevin. But it isn't going to be luck because like Alex and Craig, Kevin makes his own luck.

Sometimes I wish I was a bit more "driven" but I'm not. But I do not try to hold back those that are or feel threatened when others succeed more in the financial area (which is but one of several main areas) of their lives.

[Clive McDonald]

From earlier comments pure hydro has given nothing but solid and straightforward advice on how a business should be run and operated.

He didn't say anything flashy or outrageous, but stuck to basics such as a sign written van and a smart uniformed appearance. He said it all very well and simply and saved myself and probably several others from saying something similar.

Did it make me jealous that he should point out the obvious? Did it make me want to attack him in a personal way? did it make me feel he challenging my positon as a marketing and window cleaning guru?

No.

The only one who's self esteem seems to have been dented is the caped crusader otherwise  known as window cleaning coach. The only people supposed to be on this forum are window cleaners. If you are not one coach you shouldn't be on here, and if you are you should be aware that the bar for bragging on this forum has always been set pretty high.So, while you are a good act, you ain't the best.

[Clive McDonald]

Okay, just watched your vid and was quite impressed.
question

I had a lot of leaflets printed that stressed the fact that i use hot water. These leaflets failed, why was that do you think?

[williamx]

Too much imformation, most customers don't care or don't want to know how you clean windows, all they want to know is that you can clean theirs.

For example when I first started out I used to explain how wfp works, I use to tell then about the impurities that are in water and what it does if used to glean glass, this explained to need to use pure water.

While I was saying all of this you could see their eyes go blank and their brains would turn off, then they would then find problems about wfp cleaning (the windows are left wet, you are destroying the planet by using all of this water etc etc)

The same applied to leaflets I had made up, they were very flashy and had photos and all the information on it to make you an expert on wfp cleaning, yet the response was very low, compared with a simply made up flyer I had already used and still use now.

Most people have access to computers nowadays if you type a link to your companys profile on your leaflet, they will then go to it if they require more information, but only because they want or might need your services this seems to work better.

There is an old saying in sales.  "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID" and sometimes too much information is counter productive.

Hope this free advice helps and if you want to make a donation to NSPCC please feel free do so

Its also tax deductable

[matt]

I had a lot of leaflets printed that stressed the fact that i use hot water. These leaflets failed, why was that do you think?

i can answer this

they heard you were using a hot water system that uses GAS, which by all accounts these days is a time bomb ticking away waiting to go off 

easy really