WFP...Oh dear

« **on:** March 14, 2005, 12:39:11 pm »

Oh dear me $:-\$
I have just seen some of the worst window cleaning done with a WFP

As I was working this morning I walked past one shop (One that I don't clean) and was checking the windows to see what sort of a job was being done.
had to do a double take, this particular shop is usually cleaned pretty well, the frames are never cleaned and always look really shabby (I don't mind this as there is one I do almost opposite it and it makes my work look top banana

) The glass itself is done well though....usually, but this time there were runs all over the place and the glass looked like it had a severe dose of chicken pox there were so many spots $:-\$
This had all the earmarks of very inexperienced WFP work. Had to do a quick mental rethink as to who was cleaning these windows, I had been under the impression it was another cleaner, other than the one I now realised must do them.

I checked out a couple of the other shops in town I knew he did, and sure enough, these were also done extremely badly.

Now it isn't as if I mind seeing one of the opposition doing poor work, it means they may well lose it either to me (hopefully) or one of the other guys working the town.
But he is using WFP, as against the trad methods he was using.
The customer is likely to associate the poor work with the new fangled WFP, which, should he lose the work will make it hard for another WFP user to convince said customer that it really is an all singing, all dancing alternative to Trad cleaning

I know the guy who is doing the work, have even enthused to him that WFP was a good thing, and I now hope he will contact me and ask for a little advice.

He has been using it for about a month now and really does need to seek a little assistance in his method and technique.

One of the problems with WFP is that once people start to use it they think it is the easiest thing in the world, the trouble is, is that it is so very easy to do a bad job.
This guy would have benifited hugely from going on one of the day courses run by Craig Mawlam. (I'm sure this is something like a federation backed course, or is linked with Ionics, please excuse my ignorance on the point, I don't wish to appear missleading??? )

For anyone thinking of going down the WFP route, and in particular if they are relative newbies to window cleaning, then should make attending one of these short and inexpensive course a priority.

If I had known about them before I started WFP, regardless of the fact I have been a window cleaner for over 20 years, I would have attended one, in fact I may still do so. Anything I can learn that can assist me can only be good.

Ian

« **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2005, 02:12:42 pm »

so if you havnt gone on a course what have you come to realise makes all the difference between a good/bad job. I dont have a wfp but i hear its all in the rinse.!?

« **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2005, 02:26:46 pm »

Gosh Mark,
Not easy to answer perfectly $:-\$
But your brush needs to be kept as clean as possible, on a first clean, time must be spent washing everything thoroughly. The technique you use is important too of course, as is rinsing.
But on repeat cleans for instance, once you know that the windows are coming up to the standard you want, holding the brush off the glass to rinse isn't always necessary.
Every window can vary as to what you need to do to ensure a perfect finish.
Much is learned by hands on experience, but to be led through it step by step, to be shown some of the pitfalls, or how to handle certain types of windows, well, much of this will be covered in these courses.
As is care and maintenance of your system.
All far better than groping blindly as you try to 'teach yourself' how to use and operate your shiny new WFP

Ian

« **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:04:38 pm »

I picked up 2 jobs last week, that had been done with a wfp. And the customers did not want me to clean using this method. :(The windows had only been cleaned a day earlier, they were terrible. >:(My price was higher than the previous window cleaner by quite a bit. I told the customers try the wfp, and if they weren’t happy they did not have to pay.

I did one inside window so the could see the results, left both with an envelope and told them to pay only if they were happy. Two days latter 2 cheques with two letters say they were delighted. They had also recommended me to a few of there neighbors.

The problem was not in the wfp. The boys were paid a minimum wage. And the firm never kept there staff long, an no training at all was given. I have herd lots of stories of bad jobs been done, but used correctly it will do a superb job

« **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:21:54 pm »

on the round i took over,the bloke i knew he was using wfp but every person i have spoken to on the round have told me if i use wfp they dont wnt me doing there windows as the previus bloke made a mess everytime... i plan to get a wfp for new custom i get but why is there so much negativity about wfp.. i still want one...

« **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2005, 05:08:31 pm »

Last week we picked up 3 jobs - one of them quite a big place all because the respective owners were few up with WFP.

This is not a 'have a go at WFP's' posting as I'm (my business partner's against it as a waste of money) hoping to buy a system this year but I'm in a quandry.

Poles users on this forum seem to be doing by and large ok
but ....... I keep reading posting saying about various problems. Add to that the work we have picked up in the last 12 months (on average one a week) because the owners were not happy with WFP being used on their properties - then I'm left in doubt as to whether it's worth buying a system.

I don't know what answer I'm searching for but I'd be interested in any replies.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2005, 05:59:59 pm »

the pole system is fine. I too had to go through a steep learning curve when I started....it's often difficult to see what sort of job you've done, when you leave them wet. The following month, it was much easier, as I could see where, if at all, I had made mistakes....now I dont make any ! I know exactly how to clean certain types of window for the best result.
I was lucky really, only lost a handfull......now new customers come up to me and choose me because I have this system...it's a funny old world. Now when I turn up to do the monthly...it doesn't look like they need doing....makes it VERY quick...just get 'em wet really...coz that's what they expect now....still reckon it's the best thing I ever did.....

« **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:12:52 pm »

Likewise.
wfp is as good as the operator, produces excellent results, doing widows and frames in less time than just windows on trad.
need to recognise which types of windows it won't work well on, and do trad. or drop them.
In 5 years time it will be rare to see trad. anywhere !!

:

Blessings :

Graeme

« **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:33:20 pm »

I agree with Graeme.
Which is why I think that a little training goes a long way

It can help reduce those errors.
Of course there are always those like Roy has just come across, who just don't care, or aren't paid enough too $:-\$
This is a shame, WFP is still very new to most people, so if someone has done a p*ss poor job they will blame the system and not the operator

WFP is truly taking off,and what with forums like this, and so many of us with computers and the internet, the World Wide Web is paying a large part in spreading the word too

Ian

« **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:46:45 pm »

In 5 years time it will be rare to see trad. anywhere !!
Graeme, try 10, (thats what I thought 5 years, 5 years ago-still no compettittion round here)

« **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:51:16 pm »

thats true...to think I could still be struggling to make a dime the old way.....I'm basically lazy...I only work to pay for things I want....but If I can make a ton in just 5 hours...that'll do me....to think I only started because I needed more income than my Job as council offices caretaker would pay....£6.20 an hour...AND I had to work evenings and weekends on occaision...sod that, I'm off now ! (and they can shove that where the sun don't shine)

« **Reply #11 on:** March 15, 2005, 07:16:43 am »

HAVE YOU GOT ANY DETAILS OF THE COURSE RUN BY CRAIG MAWLAM

STEVE

« **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2005, 07:33:29 am »

Steve,
Don't have those details to hand, but I'll get them to you

got to get to work, so no time

And someone on here may read this post and get you said details before I do!

Ian

« **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:58:40 pm »

http://www.iwcto.com/

« **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2005, 04:47:22 pm »

It's me again and another question.

Training seems to be a 'must do' thing so I'll be looking into that but should I be aiming for a system based on the work we already have or on the possibilities we may get larger contracts or does it not matter as a WFP system can be easily changed according to the amount and type of work?

And should we expect to loose some work to start with because we will be new at it (so to speak).

Cheers

Ross

« **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2005, 07:15:14 pm »

Hi Ross

I do mainly all domestic work, and use my WFP for everything and find as others do it is the best move I ever did. I get through 400ltrs of water per day one man. The WFP is ideal for all jobs industrial and domestic.

It is however only as good as the man using it. I have had boys working with me, using the same equipment squeegees ect. But they have left marks and I haven’t it’s the same with the WFP take your time wash every thing and rinse really well on all first cleans. It takes time to master as it does with traditional methods.

« **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2005, 10:00:22 pm »

Any ideas about how much we should be looking to spend and which companies to buy from?

Sorry to keep asking but I want to know.

Cheers

Ross

« **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2005, 10:05:41 pm »

Hi Ross

How many men do you want to keep busy witha wfp?

« **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2005, 10:29:15 pm »

Well Im on my 3rd time around with WFP, Ive not lost a custmomer YET, not really picked up any, as i do most in the streets i do anyway

Its not about the money for me, i explain this to any1 who will listen, its IM stood on the ground all the time, Im safe

Still cannot walk because my my spained ankle though

« **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2005, 10:50:14 pm »

ITS not the WFP, its the operator, they moaned before the WFP?

Andy

« **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2005, 11:17:41 pm »

There's 3 of us.

The safety issue. Believe me that is why I'm interested in WFP's. I just want to throw away the ladders.

Sorry - I don't mean to be rude and maybe I'm using this forum a little to far in expecting answers to my specific enquiry.

A lot of our commercial and resindentual work ( because of parking problems) we have just cannot be done with WFP so I'm looking into buying something expensive that won't be used all the time and I have to persaude the two I work with that it is worth the outlay.

I have phoned 2 companies and all I kept saying was 'what's the cost' etc and neither would be precise either about cost and running costs or about is it the best for our outfit.

Sorry if I sound a bit sharp but any info is really appreciated or is it a case of each business is unique and I'll just have to assess things for myself based on the postings I have read?

Or should I just take a jump in the dark and trust what I read on this forum?

I'm tempted to do that but how much do I spend?

Thanks.

ross

« **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2005, 10:55:53 pm »

If you have to persuade the 2 your working with- you have a partnership or worse a committe of more than one, If you decide to go wfp thats your decision.
Running costs are marginal.
Do not take a jump in the dark. You seem to already have asked yourself the question, its you that will have to decide.
Not the answer you wanted but as a hint your heading in the right direction.

« **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2005, 04:57:24 am »

Ross, have a look at the cleantech website, they supply, and if it's a van mount system you are after, they will fit very good systems for you from £1150 - £2500.

« **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2005, 02:16:32 pm »

Quote

I have phoned 2 companies and all I kept saying was 'what's the cost' etc and neither would be precise either about cost and running costs or about is it the best for our outfit.

The company I chose for my system were the opposite, prices we all there, when asked. I have an objection to buying products without a price tag on them, it suggests to me that the seller is seeing how much he can screw out of you!

And, beware of those who try to blind you with science, like how much pure water it produces an hour, or the resin costs, etc, keep your eyes and ears open!

PM me if you'd like the details of the company.

Doug.

« **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2005, 02:24:53 pm »

Im in the same position.All I want is a 400ltr tank and a pump with any fittings but nobody seems interested in giving me a price.Doug could I have the details of the company cheers.
Pete

« **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2005, 02:46:24 pm »

No worries, check your PMs.

« **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2005, 05:46:18 pm »

I used Peter Fogwill at Aquatec for my trolley system last month - but he does trailer and van systems as well and you get solid advice with the prices!

« **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2005, 10:42:40 pm »

I can only big up Peter too, not always easy to get hold of (he has to earn a living) but he is one helpful guy.

Ian

« **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2005, 07:36:06 am »

COULD YOU HELP ME PLEASE......I NEED A RISK ASSESMENT ON THE WATER FED PLOE HAVE YOU GOT ONE YOU COULD GIVE ME A COPY PLEASE.

THANK YOU SUE

« **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2005, 12:38:13 pm »

Roy 400ltrs a day how many houses do you do with that amount, and how long did this last you when you first started wfp

« **Reply #30 on:** March 18, 2005, 01:13:03 pm »

Its difficult to say in houses as a lot of my work is one of properties some large and some very large.

But 400ltrs would earn me on my own about £175 - £250 and somtimes £370 in 51/2 - 6 hours work.

The area were I live is very expenseive so the prices are right up there.

« **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2005, 02:18:01 pm »

Roy.....Do you have a risk assessment for the water pole system. If so could you be kind enough to let me have a copy please.......ta Sue

« **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2005, 04:23:23 pm »

Hi Sue I have modified the one that is in the document area. If you personal mesage me your email I will send it you.