3rd storey ok on ladders wfp crap & undercutting

« **on:** May 01, 2007, 09:03:36 pm »

Hi all

was at work today one of my customes handed me a flyer that another window cleaner had put through with some very cheap prices, i have seen this bloke about spoke to him once hes got 3 young lads working for him. Hour later got a call from one of my customers cancelling she lives in a 3rd storey house and i charge her 13 pound hes quoted her 8, fair enough if she wants to go with him but i wont have her back.

Anyway my wife phoned him later just to check how he cleans 3rd storey windows as i know he only uses ladders as i was a bit miffed about being undercut as i had done this ladys for over a year but business is business. When my wife was asking him if you could only clean 3rd storey by wfp he said to her ' let me correct you dear', he said he cleans off ladders all 3rd storey work and that its perfectly safe and leagal and hes insured to go up 3rd storey. He also said that the wfp jobby is a waste of time and that you cant see if you are getting the bird muck off from the ground and its just like using your hose on them, and he said he had been cleaning windows for 35yrs and described the wfp as being 'crap'. He offers better service than window cleaners that use wfp

This bloke is obviously too old to go up ladders himself as he gets the young lads to do it, we all know ladders are safe in the right hands but 3rd storey can be a bit dodgey or is he right is it legal to go up to 3rd storey on ladders.
Also what annoys me is him slagging off wfp when hes never used it

regards

Brett

« **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:15:00 pm »

There are a lot of window cleaners who think just the same as him.
But in a couple of years he wont have a choice, we all know what the score is with ladders.

Just a shame some cleaners cant help others rather than pinch work from them.

As you say...hes obviously too old to do it himself

Bod

« **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:15:55 pm »

What a prat!!

I bet his lads are working on the side as well.

It is illegal to use ladders when a viable safer method can be used at any height as well.

Want to post his phone number Brett? lol

« **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:20:48 pm »

In the not to distant future i think you`ll find that ladder wcs will be the ones that are getting stick and the mickey taken out of them rather than the WFPolers.My customers are often saying to me,god that`s better than doing it off a ladder and it does a better job.

« **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:24:17 pm »

hi there

the chap has to have a valid method statement and risk assessment, all credit if he does,

but i suspect he doesnt.!!!!

unfortunately the general public, still need to be educated in this, but they will always look to get a good deal.

when will this change.

regards

martin

« **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:25:34 pm »

Quote from: brightnclean on May 01, 2007, 09:15:55 pm

What a prat!!

It is illegal to use ladders when a viable safer method can be used at any height as well.

Can you back that statement up. :

« **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:28:24 pm »

Quote from: bbdl on May 01, 2007, 09:25:34 pm

Quote from: brightnclean on May 01, 2007, 09:15:55 pm
What a prat!!

It is illegal to use ladders when a viable safer method can be used at any height as well.

Can you back that statement up. :

YUP!!!

« **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:35:11 pm »

Well................... I'm waiting

« **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:39:07 pm »

Are you really?

Do your own homework. :

« **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:46:05 pm »

So, you can't back it up then. :

« **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:50:29 pm »

Oh yes I can but I don,t have to. Also you should know the regulations regarding the business in which you operate.

« **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:52:43 pm »

Not Again!

« **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:53:50 pm »

Sod the regs,he must be mad if he wants to go up 3 floors.If i want to see that i`ll go to the circus mate.

« **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:54:42 pm »

I do, and nowhere does it say that it illegal to use ladders to clean windows.
What it does say is that if an alterative method is available then that method should be used.

« **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:56:16 pm »

If it's third story being between 6 and 9 meters he can get away with it at the moment if he's being footed. At those prices I doubt he's going to pay a lad to stand at the bottom of the ladders.

I wouldn't want to take a customer on just because I was cheaper they'd make a rubbish customer. And what will she say when her frames start getting dirty.

As for missing birds muck, well I suppose if he's been in the business for 35 years he might be a bit old and going blind. How ever there are many wc's on here that aren't going blind have been in the business longer and rave about wfp.

It also annoys me someone making young lads take risks by going up silly heights and not taking the risks themselves.

Sleep well Simon.

« **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:56:50 pm »

Quote from: brightnclean on May 01, 2007, 09:15:55 pm

What a prat!!

I bet his lads are working on the side as well.

It is illegal to use ladders when a viable safer method can be used at any height as well.

Want to post his phone number Brett? lol

so the safer method being not to them them at all, i mean, you might drop you pole on your head

you could take that to all extremes

soon you wont be able to use wfp, you'll need a cheery picker to go right up to the window,

but until that time, lets stop squabbling, you can use a triple ladder, you can even use a triple 20 if you wanted to do 4 stories.

I do it, lots of people do, don't jump on the old. ladders are so 20th century

« **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:57:38 pm »

but on the other hand

undercutting

tut tut very bad, over cutting well that's just cheeky :p

« **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:59:01 pm »

I rest my case.

quote:Also you should know the regulations regarding the business in which you operate

« **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:00:18 pm »

Yeah but why would you want to,i`m not breaking my back for a pane of glass.

« **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:00:45 pm »

Quote from: brightnclean on May 01, 2007, 09:15:55 pm

It is illegal to use ladders when a viable safer method can be used at any height.

Exactly what I said. If you dont have the alternative method then you are not within H&S Regs.

Boring this isnt it? lol

« **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:02:39 pm »

hang on, so what are you saying

if you 'personally' dont have the other option, then your in or out of regs

Quote from: NWH on May 01, 2007, 10:00:18 pm

Yeah but why would you want to,i`m not breaking my back for a pane of glass.

i know seems pointless, but thats what these guys do

i wonder if he belongs to this forum

« **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:10:29 pm »

Yep boring!

Im wfp since early last year, i do loads of 3 storeys.

I used to charge £12 for mine off ladders, a lot of brown trouser moments and i love ladders and taking risks, but at that height.....

Now doing them wfp 1/3 or even 1/4 time all frames too £20 and £22. Customers pay it cos they love it having perfect frames at that height, mind you i think when im in work mode i could sell sand to the arabs! Wish i could get more of these id do them every day and night

COULDNT GIVE A S*** whether its law or not Ive given up taking those risks and tryin to get into corners at those heights!

« **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:13:54 pm »

Alex

You can't use a triple 20 that is illegal. The max height for ladder work is 30ft. You might get away with it on private property but if H & S catch you, you could face a fine. If you want to stick within Caesars oe her Majesty's law 30ft is the height and that's being footed aswell.

Simon

« **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:16:31 pm »

Thanks for your replies guys so far

but please lets not get into wfp verses ladders within the forum

I picked a job up from this guy last year he charged 7 and i quoted 10 and got the job. The ladies reason for cancelling him was because his lads was messing around on her garden with her hose spraying each other we both quoted for a job last month, i know he went in cheaper than me but i got the job as the customer liked the safey aspect of wfp, also the results

Whatever the customer preferes really wfp or ladders this chap should let them decide for themselves rather than slagging wfp off and charging low prices just to get the job or i could start playing dirty too. I think its important for business to get on with window cleaners in your area

cheers

Brett.

« **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:17:42 pm »

so what's private and what's not?

and i havnt got any triple work, was just merely stating,

i hate all this h&s law, just insurers covering their back all the time,

« **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:19:20 pm »

but i get the impression no matter how hard you try, people still will go behind you back

im a bit unsure on taking anyone's work to be honest,

but if the customer says so then i guess that's final,

but if someone did that to me, they wouldn't be paying the same price when i went back after the bobber job decided it wasn't worth it anymore

« **Reply #26 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:23:57 pm »

If you could stand there naked and feel that you can get away with it then I'd say it's pretty private.

If you have an accident and an ambulance turns up then even if it's private it's public.

Simon.

« **Reply #27 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:26:05 pm »

Fair competition to this traditional window cleaner working up to 3 storey on a ladder. That's okay until one of his young workers falls off their ladder and wants to sue him because there is an alternative method of cleaning them windows and he knows that! Compensation claims will force legitimate employers to convert to WFP method whether they like or dislike the method.

« **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:29:28 pm »

Quote from: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 01, 2007, 10:23:57 pm

If you could stand there naked and feel that you can get away with it then I'd say it's pretty private.

Simon.

let me get this straight if i cant be seen naked its private,

could you show me where you saw that in the H&S booklet id like to read that

muahahha

you really do have to be an idiot to fall of a ladder

there is no such thing as an accident, either your not trained, not footed, or over stretching

« **Reply #29 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:39:22 pm »

Simon.

Quote

you really do have to be an idiot to fall of a ladder

there is no such thing as an accident, either your not trained, not footed, or over stretching

Quote

OR a freak gust of wind! It happens!!

« **Reply #30 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:40:25 pm »

I admit it I'm an idiot.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=36655.0

Alex Wingrove do you know Sam Flynn?

Simon.

« **Reply #31 on:** May 02, 2007, 06:50:56 am »

Quote from: EasyClean on May 01, 2007, 10:39:22 pm

OR a freak gust of wind! It happens!!

dont go out when its windy then

sam flynn

that name does sound familiar where is he or her from

« **Reply #32 on:** May 02, 2007, 08:10:41 am »

Sams from Hasting he's about 30 married to a girl called Rhona a friend of my wife's. He was a window cleaner until last year did it for many years bar a short stint in a factory at Mill Hill London. However his knees have caused him so much hassle he's had to give up under doctors orders. You find when working off ladders for years it does get to your knees, wfp probably gets to you elbows and neck I know. He commutes to Heathrow to work at the airport now, not as a window cleaner.

Simon.