steve k

WFP...safety or profit?
« on: February 01, 2007, 06:51:48 am »
How many WFP users would be users if the system was much slower to use than Trad methods and therefore profits were lower?

Lets face it, if WFP never came along, we would still be using our ladders to earn a living.

I for one, realised that WFP was going to be a lot faster to use and therefore more profitable and that is the sole reason I purchased a system...for more profit!

A nice side benefit was not having to use ladders as much but profit came first.

If WFP was slow to use and my hourly rates dropped from £30 to £15...I would not be using it.

Anyone else who uses WFP for profitability first and safety second?

Come on..be honest ;D

pylofm

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 07:12:51 am »
Having only spent 6 months doing trad (fulltime) about 18 years ago....I cannot really say I was a proper trad wiindow cleaner...however last year I decided for various reasons to start-up for myself....

I for one looked for a 'safe' method as I am not a great fan of ladders...

My decision was sealed by the posts I found here on this forum...so personally my decision was both for safety and profit.

Cheers
Dave.

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 07:39:26 am »
safety came first with me, and profit is a bonus.
even if it was slower i would still use it.
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

Paul Coleman

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 07:52:04 am »
How many WFP users would be users if the system was much slower to use than Trad methods and therefore profits were lower?

Lets face it, if WFP never came along, we would still be using our ladders to earn a living.

I for one, realised that WFP was going to be a lot faster to use and therefore more profitable and that is the sole reason I purchased a system...for more profit!

A nice side benefit was not having to use ladders as much but profit came first.

If WFP was slow to use and my hourly rates dropped from £30 to £15...I would not be using it.

Anyone else who uses WFP for profitability first and safety second?

Come on..be honest ;D

I would be trying to wriggle out of using it too Steve if it dented my profits.  Bigger profits AND more safey is a very big bonus for me that is just starting to lift me away from financial meltdown.  Just had my best January EVER.  I earned more in January than I did in some Summer months.  Ok so the outgoings were higher too but didn't keep pace with the extra turnover.

williamx

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 09:37:51 am »
I would hate it being rich and in a wheelchair or cemetery. :( Safety first- Money second 8)

matt

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 10:10:37 am »
from my point of view its SAFETY 100% and i really mean that

i know wih my feet safely planted on the ground for my round i know im going home at night and not falling off a ladder and ending up in hospital ( or worse )

drakestar!

  • Posts: 311
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 10:11:03 am »
bit of both but we are being ripped of as in 10 years the cost will be less than it is now. look at the price of anything that is new on the market eg dvd players, get them for a tenner now!

steve k

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 02:47:35 pm »
if we are saying safety...then why did we ever choose a ladder business in the first place.
If safety on the ground was our prime motivator, why did we not be a postman or a car valeter or a jet washer  etc etc.

We used ladders while monitoring our own standards of safety and ladder techniques...then along comes WFP and we jumped at it.

In any workplace, there are possibilities of accidents and whether its a fall from a ladder or a forklift falling on top of you, the end result is the same.
We (those with normally accepted levels of common sense) go about our daily social and working lives aware of dangers and avoiding them.
We worked off ladders and for the majority of users did so safely and with self imposed safety practices in place...why not continue doing what we did?

We are always looking at ways to speed our productivity up as more houses is more money.

It doesn`t wash with me at all that if WFP was considerably slower than traditional methods, some people would be happy to earn a breakeven wage cleaning windows as long as they were safe!

You can earn a breakeven wage for a lot less effort than window cleaning that is for sure.

Maybe the safety benefits of WFP have become blurred with the profit increases possible and we have lost touch with what is really motivating us...
My mission is to earn as much money as possible during working hours whilst maintaining the high standards of business practice I have set for myself.
Whilst not working, enjoying being with my family, reading my books, contemplating the merits of putting a bottle of Guinness in the freezer before slurping it...and accepting that a wonderful side beneft of WFP is no more silent prayers at the top of a ladder.

Tosh

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 05:23:23 pm »
I'm one of those idiots who firmly believes that nothing bad will happen to him, (I can fall into a barrel of poo and come up smelling of roses; honest) so I wanted a WFP to make more money and have an easier time doing it.

Saying that, I did some high first floor windows this morning and left the pole leant up against a window to move the backpack a bit to the left.

I must've tugged on the pole and it came crashing down, nearly hitting me on the head, but I managed to get my hand to it first.

I only ended up cutting my 'and!

brightnclean

  • Posts: 592
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 06:24:36 pm »
I used to do quite a bit of rock climbing. Freestyle as well!  For the uninitiated that means no ties or ropes.

I felt safer doing that than trusting my life to a ladder. Its not ladders that are dangerous. Its the incorrect use of them and in window cleaning unless you have the perfect round and are a perfect person I bet a pound to a penny risks are taken most days.

I wouldnt go ladder only to earn half of what I do. Its a bit of both for me. Maybe I am unusual because I started out with WFP so perhaps I am not really qualified to answer this one with experience bit no way would I take a pay cut and go ladder only.

macc

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 06:30:35 pm »
safety came first with me, and profit is a bonus.
even if it was slower i would still use it.

Same here!

My safety comes first, the fact my profits, turnover & getting round all my worh every 4 weeks in the last 15 months on time is a huge bonus.

Macc

steve k

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 06:35:01 pm »
is that another Tosh...??

matt

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 07:05:18 pm »
if we are saying safety...then why did we ever choose a ladder business in the first place.
If safety on the ground was our prime motivator, why did we not be a postman or a car valeter or a jet washer  etc etc.



i somewhat stumbled in to becoming a WC'er

ive been up triple ladders fixing roofs and gutters , i will be honest it scared me

i honestly can say hand on heart if i earned the same with ladder and WFP i would be happy, as im safe




spotless2000

  • Posts: 442
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2007, 07:12:38 pm »
Quote
if we are saying safety...then why did we ever choose a ladder business in the first place.

If it wasn't for WFP I wouldn't be in this business.

I would never have considered WC if I had to use a ladder.

After being given 3 months notice that I was going to be made redundant I started researching various options of self employment on the internet and discovered WFP.

The rest as they say is history.  

So for me it's not safety OR profit  - It's safety AND profit!

Steve

Tosh

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2007, 07:36:28 pm »
is that another Tosh...??

No it's me!  The same ole slanty-eyed Geordie Jap. ;D
I used to do quite a bit of rock climbing. Freestyle as well! For the uninitiated that means no ties or ropes.

I've done a fair bit of rock climbing too; but you're a nutter.  I'd climb nothing unless I was getting blayed (is that how you spell it (bee-laid; phonetically).

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2007, 07:54:13 pm »
3 years using ladders before the WaHD idea was first made public.
Changed to WFP for safety reasons.
In a short time productivity went up.

So, both safety and profit in the end

EasyClean

  • Posts: 558
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2007, 08:04:30 pm »
I use to traditionally clean lots of windows 3 levels up but would clean them by WFP even if the money was lower purely from the safety aspect and being able to have a restful night's sleep not having too worry about climbing a ladder on gusty days. Nowadays I don't have much choice: it has to be WFP method because of my arthritus not the safety or money decision but health decision!!
Losing a customer is like waiting for the next bus, another one will come along shortly!

Mike_G

  • Posts: 1500
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2007, 08:11:19 pm »
I agree with Steve K.

trevor perry

  • Posts: 2454
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2007, 08:18:12 pm »
 I agree with steve k , the safety side had very little to do with me going wfp apart from the fact that i was having to justify useing a ladder to a lot of safety officers on jobs we clean.
  I have used ladders for the past 25 years and for many of those years did commercial jobs useing ladders to a height of 60ft i found these really big ladders safer than small ones because they are that heavy once in position they will never move.
 Useing wfp is definately quicker but i seriously dont think it does as good a job on a lot of work but people accept the finish due to the safety reasons, my main concern is that a lot of people are now becoming window cleaners that before wfp wouldnt have lasted a day and this in the long run will drive prices down.
  To sum up ,on ladders and safety i would say ladders are a very safe tool if used correctly but in the wrong hands it is like giving a machine gun to a monkey and people will be hurt.
better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove any doubt

matt

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2007, 08:24:56 pm »
  my main concern is that a lot of people are now becoming window cleaners that before wfp wouldnt have lasted a day and this in the long run will drive prices down.
 

thats a good point, ive had FIVE leaflets though my door since christmas from window cleaners

shocking

niceandclean

  • Posts: 1897
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2007, 08:45:55 pm »
Defo profit!!!!

spotless2000

  • Posts: 442
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2007, 08:50:48 pm »
Quote
my main concern is that a lot of people are now becoming window cleaners that before wfp wouldnt have lasted a day and this in the long run will drive prices down.

Prices will only be driven down by the WC quoting or offering to do a job cheaper than it is currently being done.

It doesn't make business sense to invest a lot of money in a new system only to then work for peanuts!

Yes, there will be some that do.

But the £5 brigade with ladders have been doing this already.

Steve

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2007, 09:18:01 pm »
for me it was neither of those two options, to be honest after over 20 years I'd got totally arsed off with the job, doing big offices off big ladders was such hard work, I was fed up with Georgian work, and just fed up of climbing ladders in general.

safety was an issue, but it was only part of the story for me.

Profit didn't really come into it, I was told about the potential of course, but wasn't entirely sure i believed all the hype.

However, if it meant working at a slower rate than Trad then I'd dump it and become a van driver.
What the hells the point of spending all that money and still earning no more at best than you did before?

And of course as it takes off more and more, many more will come into window cleaning the WFP route, and as a result will not understand the correct pricing structure, or rather how work is priced up using trad methods.

Those that do price too low will eventually find they are earning less than a decent trad cleaner (overheads and running costs) and they will lose out in the long run...
It should balance out in the end though, even if some work is driven down in price.

I'm now earning more than I've ever earned in my life, not a snowballs chance would I ever go back now...

so my perspective now is profit first, safety second...though it is a close second.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

KarlJones

  • Posts: 394
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2007, 09:24:42 pm »
Quote
thats a good point, ive had FIVE leaflets though my door since christmas from window cleaners

Jeez!!!  Is it just me that is supprised by this?

were they mostly WFP?

Oh and to the subject.  In a few months I will get a back pack.  This is partly for safety, but mostly because there is work that I just can not do at all without it. 

I do have some nightmare houses that require a lot of ladder work even for low windows.  I would use WFP for them purely because it would save so much messing about.  Apart from that, I actually quite enjoy using traditional methods, I find it very relaxing,  I just do not think I will get that when I go to WFP.

To sum up, some jobs can not be done safely, so I will get WFP.  I think it is a profit thing though,  I just do not want to lose good customers to some idiot with water on a stick :P If you can not beat em, join em.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

matt

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2007, 10:20:54 pm »
Quote
thats a good point, ive had FIVE leaflets though my door since christmas from window cleaners

Jeez!!!  Is it just me that is supprised by this?

were they mostly WFP?



i dont know, they never put in on the flyer

though i saw a new guy doing a house a few doors from me today, he was on a ladder YET had a 06 plate Mitsubishi L200 as a ladder stop ( most of the houses here have a proch and a garage that needs the ladder to be 45 degree's ( scarey )), i would have stopped for a chat BUT was on my way to pick up my daughter from preschool


Pj

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2007, 10:23:40 pm »
I took up wfp because of safety first.
Some days I would change it all back for me bucket and blade!  But I can't be bothered.

S.A.J

  • Posts: 2162

david68

  • Posts: 865
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2007, 12:03:27 am »
I have only been going for 9 months, But changed to wfp as i was working on my own and ladders and conditions can be real dangerous.

I went to a trolley version freedom trolley. But setting this up was a slower operation than ladders so i was losing profit.

Then i brought a good van system of ebay so now i just pull the hose out and wash.......well or i need now is plenty of house for my fire engine.

So trolley was slower for me but i stuck with it due to saftey.

The van i with pull out hose is safer than ladders but speed as doubled.

So i would always appreciat the safty way first even if does take longer.

If wfp never worked out for me i would have combined ladders with also using extension pole with applicator and squeege attache to it.


Dave

David

www.ccwin.co.uk

My learning hobby
www.dbritweb.com

John Peters

  • Posts: 20
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2007, 02:47:28 pm »
When thinking about the change it was 50% safety 50% for profit.

Now that I'm a window washer rather than a window cleaner its 100% for the money, because now we work from the ground the safety hazard has gone away!

John

dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2007, 05:56:46 pm »
I changed to WFP for the extra earning potential, safety wasn't an issue.
But it has become an issue now.
I was doing the job off ladders for many years without giving it a thought.
It was only after I stopped using them, that I found I didn't want to use them anymore.
There must have been  stress pesent when I was using ladders, that I pushed to the back of my mind.
I read in my local paper this morning that an electrition had died after falling 6ft off a step ladder. He ruptured his spleen and delayed treatment.
I leave you with this thought.
If working off a ladder never bothered us, why is it we feel so much better/ safer, now we are WFP. Dai

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2007, 06:12:11 pm »
profit all the way.... ;)

H h20

Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2007, 06:14:26 pm »
50/50 for me as i can earn more and work so much safer at the same time,
Gaz

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: WFP...safety or profit?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2007, 06:25:57 pm »
i was only trad for 2 years before wfp so wasn't that quick with a squeegee, but i fly round now on my jobs with wfp.
So much free time now.

ps
there were always a couple of quids worth of windows at most jobs that i couldn't clean off a ladder. Not now.