[*thomas james]

a

[DASERVICES]

Thomas,

I bought a second hand Fiat Scudo for £2k, the built my own WFP with all
parts required for £1k.

In the short term I lost money compared to trad because of the first cleans etc..
but after 3 mnths you start seeing the benefits. My output has increased by
20% and I recovered all costs within 7 mnths.

A friend of mine who I introduced to WFP has gone the same route but he
is now leasing a van. His work was cut down from 5 wks to 3 wks and is now
looking for more work.

Once you have WFP you then need to structure your work around it and take
on houses that are compatible to WFP.

Being in Scotland you only need a DI system, all our work is domestic.

Hope this helps

Doug

[P @ F]

Absolutety better off without a doubt !
I was not the quickest trad man , i used to earn about £60 ~ £70 a day .

I got my pole system using a zero % credit card {interest free loan } !

Now i am earning in the region of £150~£200 a day

Not always that much obviously but 75% of time .

Thats domestic , a day at commercial brings in more again .

 So yes , wfp has done it for me   

 Rich P @ F 

[Paul Coleman]

this is basically aimed at the domestic lads with maybe a few commercials

do you think after the costs of wfp equipment, a larger van with larger fuel costs insurance etc, that you are better of than if you had not bothered investing

I know it is safer but spreading this cost over say 5 years compared to not investing at all, financially do you think you are better off

just wondered if anyone had looked at it from this angle

The big difference for me is that my 6 weekly work cycle now takes 4 weeks - sometimes less.  My hourly rate is much higher now on most jobs so long as I stick to good access and keep away from too much work wqith flat roofs.  My year runs October to October.  Now that I've got rid of most of my dross work, my income should escalate substantially this year.  Of course the running costs are higher but thew extra turnover will far more than offset this.  Year one with WFP has been my learning curve with very big outlays and quite a few mistakes.  Year two is when I start to reap the rewards more.  Year three (starting October next year) should be a blinder.

[Londoner]

Yes definitly better with WFP. But don't just think that you are going to hit the ground running. There is a lot to learn about how to deploy your hoses and all sorts of little things before you really get fast. But when you do its a lot better.

[P @ F]

Oh Vince , you make it sound like a science 

 You are of course right , many a broken planter lies in my wake 

 Rich P @ F

[EasyClean]

In genweral people who have 'splashed' out on WFP method are better off than window cleaners doing it the traditional way. We are all moaning about the lousy weatehr (heavy rain, strong winds) BUT we are still working when and where possible. Imagine how the 'Traditional guys are feeling. They must be on the verge of 'Jacking it all in' soon. My message to them is don't despair, the sun will show its face soon, hopefully!!!!!!!!!!! or change to WFP!!!!!!!!!!!

[sair]

my expert (2.0hdi) does 55 to the gallon so did the kangoo(1.5dci)

only difference is more water say 750 expert 500 max on kangoo

even though i never used 500 in day 450 the other day when two working 6 hours solid

i am better off, i can grow older with a bit more grace and time to do whats important in life rather than just work


yes my turnover has trippled. only 10 days a month i do 3days 2 days 3days 2 days work completed rain or shine
 

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

i will answer your question but will keep it simple

YES

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

I have been WFP now for 8 months.  I can honestly say it has revolutionised my business.  I am now turning over 30% more work than last year.  It is the first November I have completed my round!  Ever! in 19years!! AND 30% more!!

Thats the good news!!!!

It has cost me, not only in finance, but in stress too!!

Finacialy it has cost me around 2K.  Buying the Equipment and refurbishing my trailer.
At first it was hard work.  I made mistakes and had a few problems.  I lost a few customers and occasionally seriously considered dumping the lot!!!
 

BUT I PERSIVERED...............WELL probably because I am a stubbourn B*****D
and was NOT goimg back to Ladders!! Or, have the wife say " Told you it was a waste of monery!!"
Instead, a month ago my wife said "I'm proud of you! You have stuck to your guns and made that pole stuff work!"

David

[Ian_Giles]

The bigger vans all have suspension designed for greater loads, and a bigger van does not mean bigger insurance costs either.
I've been WFP for over 2 and a half years and I'm still using the same poles I had to begin with.
For me it now means I worry about the size of my tax bill whereas before I never did.

I have a handful of commercial offices that are the cream of my round, but WFP has meant that domestic acounts now make up about 50% of my work, and the domestic stuff is also the most profitable (those offices notwithstanding).
2 and a half years ago I only had 2 domestic accounts (about £100's worth, and yes, they are good accounts)...I must have a count up...I really don't know how many I now have, but it is now a substantial number.

Of course the setup and running costs are greater, and there really is a big learning curve, but for me the difference is enormous, I'm not prepared to say what my best week has been, but never in a million years could I have acheived it were I still 100% trad.

Ian

And Dave....well done mate

[matt]

guys if you have been doing window cleaning for a few years and you have a maximum work load traditional, can the time saved by wfp be justified against the costs, when you are in a position were you dont want any more work

I know it is safer but if you have a maximum work load then you have found a way around sorting out the dangerous windows I put this view forward as I have spoke to a guy who brings his £5000 ionics system out for 4 commercial contracts a month and totally refuses to use it on domestic as he finds it too much hassle and not happy witht he results .Now he also spent £10000 on a new van to support the system
now this is £15000 to do the job a little bit easier, not more work than what he had before,his running cost went up £1500 on fuel.Now you will probably think this guy is inexperienced but he has had his system 4 years and probably is well knowledgeable about wfp,As he said= if I did not have it someone else would come along with it.He recons he saves time over traditional, but not enough to justify the extra cost

if your going to spend 15 K on a new van and system, then it will take time to pay for itself

if you use a small van or car, build your own system, use 25 L barrels in a car OR fit a small tank in a small van

loads of options when you build your own, you build it to suit what you need (if you have a car, then use the 25 L'r barrels)

<--------------- have a look at the DIY forum, e.mail me for a link, e.mail on the side

[DASERVICES]

  Jim,

  I'm going to stick my neck out on this one, my opinion is Ionics is designed
  for Commercial work and not domestic due to the cumbersome hoses they have, micro bore is far better for domestics.

  WFP works better on big houses and I would say a no, no on council houses.

  Training is another big issue, its taken me some time but due to all the good
  info off this site as well as being taught I think I have got to know how WFP
  reacts to each type of window. Like flow rate I feel is a big issue in the
  quality of work, its all these tips you learn off this forum.

  He has probably been shown by Ionics and no one else, so that is another
  problem. There are things I still find a problem but still trying out new
  things to increase my work rate.

  Like there are 2 folk up my way who have gone into WFP with a back pack,
  and what I am hearing they are not too impressed. That is not their fault
  but they have been given the sales pitch in do this and this and that's it.
  As we all know it does not work that way, you need to be taught.

  Just my veiws James as we have discussed this before.

  Hope this helps.

  Cheers

 Doug

  

[P @ F]

As said , you dont have to spend 15k on your set up , i spent £1440 on system , ground floor pole , 18 foot pole , 24 foot pole 39 foot pole , IBC tank , all you need to get going , this was all running from an astra van .

I then took the choice to spend 5k on a transporter so as to carry more water and have a bit more room .

It could be done cheaper by a long way , it just depends on how much of a vision you have for the future , and it depends on your cash situation of course .

But like i said , a zero % credit card got me up and running , and the initial £1440 was all paid back within the 12 month offer on the card , therefore costing me nothing to set up due to the rise in daily takings , but remember , you have to have the extra work there to get the extra cashflow .

 Rich   P @ F

[P @ F]

Not a chance mate , not in my area anyway , it could be different in your area , what you have to remember is that there are far more windows out there than there are w/c's , only you can decide if its worth the jump or not .

Personally , i fell from a ladder and split my knee cartlidge , oh and it rotated 180 degrees too , this is why i changed over really , 5 weeks off work , but  strange as it may seem , im actually glad i fell in a way , no lasting damage hopefully , but i wont be falling again !

 Rich P @ F   

[Mr. S]

Well, if you look at it this way ........ Slip off your ladder and see how much you earn then. Also if you finally do get back to work how fast r u gonna be!

I suffer with sports injuries occassionally (or is it the Mrs battering me?), when trad using ladders sometimes i struggled, with wfp i dont.

Also dont really fancy being off work for too long, so even if i was only earning same as trad daily, which im not, think in the long run wfp def would pay for itself, plus picks me up better prices on houses, charging more for plasics, panels ets

[Paul Coleman]

your correct doug wfp for commercial and large houses

now the guys who have been at it a while probably have attacked this type of work,I am just wondering if the new guys getting into it find it more difficult trying to find the larger houses available, and trying to make it work on council and small private houses, as new estates go up the houses are getting smaller and smaller and prices drop to the £5-£8 bracket, the newer houses are getting easier to do compared to older houses allowing for ladders to be used most times in a safe manner,with just the odd window needing a pole.I know you target the bigger houses doug, but taking a semi being the average house in the country, is the large houses not just limited and it has been a case of first in reaps the rewards

Yes the time saving with WFP is not as good on the smaller properties usually.  Generally, the larger the property the greater the time saving.  In fact, on a few of my jobs there is no time saving at all.
Having said that I have timed myself on certain jobs.  Excluding the first clean I have a job that used to take me a bit over an hour.  That one is no 35 minutes.  Another was two and a quarter hours which is now 1 hour 45 minutes.  Another one which was just about two hours (and not a very safe feeling either) is now done in about 1 hour 10 minutes.
Unlike my first few times around with WFP, I don't think I now have any jobs that actually take me longer with it.  Some are the same.  As stated, the trick is to hunt for larger jobs with good access.

[Ian_Giles]

A great many of my domestic accounts are semi's, and a standard 3 bed semi, takes no more than 10 minutes to clean.

And this is NOT rushing, done trad in that time most certainly would be.

The time saving on a small account isn't much, but for me it is certainly quicker and less effort is involved.

If you can't make WFP work on domestic then you ain't doin' it right!

Bigger jobs, georgian or leaded work and the time differential is truly enormous.

If your round is domestic and you are full to the gills with work then you may well wonder what is the point of spending a lot of wonga to do what you are already doing.
But within a month or 2 you will find that you need new work.

You will finds that instead of shying away from Georgian work you'll be gobbling it up, work you could not do before is suddenly work that you can now do.
You will now be in a position to take on work that you would previously avoided.

None of us have all 3 bed semi's, we have a selection, and on some of it you will be massively faster.

You have to be organised, it isn't the same as trad, your approach has to change, every job you have will need to be re-learned.

You may well be better off sticking with ladders, some people just don't seem to learn how to use WFP, their results are poor, they just don't seem able to adapt.

My new van costs me £250 a month for 5 years and I spent about another £1200 or so upgrading from working out of the back of my hatchback to the full van mount, plus £250 to get my van signwritten (it's paid for itself over and over....the signwriting that is!)

My initial setup cost around the £1500 mark to be fully up and running, and that paid for itself in a few months.
Once I had picked up well over £250 a month of new domestic, and I was consistantly turning that extra work over, I then invested in the van, comortable in the knowledge that I wasn't going to have a problem paying for the van.

So for me at least, before I took each step, I was also sure I had that cost covered, and every step of the way I have exceeded those targets and I'm continuing to take on more well paying work, the vast majority of which is domestic.

I use trad every day still, but that is used almost entirely on the commercial work, the only time I use trad on my domestics is when I have to clean inside work.
For external work on domestic it is 100% WFP, whether its a one bed flat or a mansion.

Ian

[eddie d]

i dont make much more ,if any .but apart from the achey back & neck ,still in one piece.after previously falling from a ladder and having 6 months off ,and being very lucky i didnt kill myself (shudder)

[Ian_Giles]

Well there is only so much you can do to cover your ass!

If my van was totalled I'd have two options.

1. go back to the car and work out the back of it as I did before.

2. (the route I'd most likely take) My van is fully comp and in the event of an accident my insurance supplies me with a hire van, so I'd simply use that to work out of.
Lost income due to the accident would be claimed for off the insurance, the other persons insurance if the accident wasn't my fault.

Actually my car has a tow bar, so I'd also have the option of getting a trailer and working out of that.
I'd only lose a day or 2 of work regardless of what option I used.

Ian