[julianbiggs]

Purification, WFP, filters, pumps, pure water, poles, batteries, ro packs, backpacks, water density............

Are there any traditional window cleaners left

[captain lard]

Oh yes.

[KJG]

How traditional do you mean? I still use ammo swab, leather and scrim - as well as microfibre, squeegee, ladders, wfp and bump

[rosskesava]

A big yes for sure.

We do use wfp for some jobs though.

In fact I want wfp to spread and spread. Our best jobs where the customers pay through the nose are those who now want the job done trad style having had their windows done with wfp and I'm not having a go at wfp as we do use it also.

There is now a niche in the market and it's there for trad window cleaners to exploit.

Last week an owner of a largish shop asked us if we'd be interested in doing his 14 large windows traditionally with a mop and squeegie not because the wfp person wasn't doing a good job, but because he prefered trad methods and his window cleaner was an adament wfp only window cleaner.

We also do the windows of a number of wealthy customers who do not want wfp and are prepared to pay for trad window cleaning. If it complies with the not so newish regs, then we earn good money.

WFP - I hope more and more coyboys try to earn a living from it because they will push the cost up of doing a decent job trad style which is what we done previously anyway.

I think that one draw back of WFP companies for the buyer is they promote 'make a quick buck' and 'buy our system' because 'it is so easy' and many people do buy. The reality is different but the WFP companies have made their money but the purchaser hasn't in many cases having tried the trade for many months or years.

Think about it and think about it seriously, WFP companies make money from sales. If every WFP buyer made money, how long would it be before there were no more windows to clean? It don't take much working out?

A while back I had a table that I wanted redoing that was maybe 50 years old. I found a Friday Ad bloke to strip off the varnish and do all the french polishing stuff by hand rather than take it to a company who did it all with acid dips and spray on varnish. I paid more but the Friday Ad bloke, he talked the walk. He was into his job, he spent time looking the table over,  pointed out the places where the varnish would look good and the problem area's.

My point....

Sometimes just cleaning the windows is not enough. Sometimes it's how the job gets done that matters to the customer. Maybe in 25 years time WFP will be talked about in the same as trad style is now in some quarters, but today, in 2006, WFP is earning us money by doing the job trad style.

I must point out we do jobs with WFP also and especially larger commercial jobs. I am not knocking WFP as such,  but rather I exploit it, whether trad of WFP,  anyway I can. WFP does have it's drawbacks just as trad methods do also.

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Ross,

Some vaild points there my friend.

I still find it amusing when I read posts where people seem to have the opinion that when you convert over to WFP then the mop and squeegee get thrown into the bin.

I have been WFP now for 2 years and am just converting over my 3rd vehicle from traditional, however, all our vans have ladders on them and all my guys will use the ladders where necessary.

We have some clients that we have WFP and the glass just doesn't come up to a decent finish, we now do those the traditional way still and that way we don't lose any customers.

Like you said, the advertising is based on making money quickly, which, in the right hands yes you can, but you have to know what you're doing.

Why did I change over, well apart from a couple of my government jobs requesting this method it was mainly to do with safety, my guy's and myself have had a fall in the past off ladders, and also to enable me to get to windows I previously couldn't.

However, although I see the huge benefits WFP does bring I am not blinded enough to understand that ladders will always have a place in this industry.

Trev

[mgba_78]

I was just thinking the same thing, the forum is deffintly has more WFP than traditional cleaners i would say

I as i'm sure your aware Julian am traditinal

Andy D

If is not been done before could we do a poll?

[julianbiggs]

Nice to hear from you Mr Daily...........that sounds like a good idea....I'll start the topic..... roll on September 12th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[macc]

I was just thinking the same thing, the forum is deffintly has more WFP than traditional cleaners i would say

I as i'm sure your aware Julian am traditinal

Andy D

If is not been done before could we do a poll?

I think thats cause most of us are getting on. Im 40 November, i dont have the energy i had 5 years ago forget 10 years, plus thers the safety side, old bones dont heal as quick as younger ones, mind you, i may bounce a bit higher.

macc

[mgba_78]

I think thats cause most of us are getting on. Im 40 November, i dont have the energy i had 5 years ago forget 10 years, plus thers the safety side, old bones dont heal as quick as younger ones, mind you, i may bounce a bit higher.

macc

I did have this conversation with the wife the other day, now im not the oldest person on here nor the youngest but i'm 28 now and think what do i do in 10 years time???

Not that 38 is old but i dont want to be running up and down ladders forever, what do i do. i dont want to go back and work for someone else doing what ever.There is a strong possibility of WFP and if i havent already done it employing staff to run part/all of the business.
Havent really thought that far ahead on my business plan, but dont really want the headache of WFP and employing people yet or the near future.

Andy

[beefy]

im definately trad,  i love my ladders BUT did a new hotel today & on my way back down the ladder slipped i was still about 12 ft up ladder went back a few of inch then hit a stone & stopped, my first scare in 3yrs of w/c mad thing was the job id done before it id used wfp so i wouldnt have to scramble over roofs but i thought ,this ones easy so ill use ladders well not next time i wont its wfp cos wfp is an excellent tool but its just 1 more tool for getting the job done my ladder & squeegie are just as good,look in a brickies bag different tools for different jobs, im just glad i have a choice

[groundhog]

Trad Cleaner here, watch out a lot of the people who post on here are suppliers of wfp equipment so are very biased. I think that the majority of window cleaners in the UK are still Trad, but you wouldn't think it if you listen to some of the posts on here!!

Trad is best, just ask the customers!!!

[beefy]

groundhog yr right about suppliers but everyone everwhere is trying to sell us something we dont need/want but why this insistance that trad is best/wfp is best why does one have to be best??? city/utd ,celtic/rangers

[rosskesava]

Traditional is still in the majority and of that there is no question.

The thing is, when it comes to a forum like this one, it's not trendy to not be wfp.

One reason I don't post so much anymore although I use wfp everyday... (as well as tradtional methods but shhhh... keep quiet)

Trad = certain death from falls from height.

WFP = a better job and you don't die.

Trad = a slower job

WFP = a better job done quicker

I don't think one is better than the other. Both have there place. It's a question of doing what the job requires but a lot don't get that point. Some are happy to never have to go up a ladder again and I don't blame them. A lot think that wfp is the answer to all things window cleaning and it's those who think that who have helped our business no end as we use both methods.

We now do some jobs with wfp that never ever could be done with traditional methods. We also do jobs where traditional methods knock spots off wfp.

It's horses for courses but in terms of this forum, I feel wfp in is the majority. To start with I was a bit concerned that wfp would take over and loads and loads of people would jump on the wfp band wagon and getting more work would become more difficult and prices for window cleaning would go down as market forces would depress prices but now, I am happy. I hope loads of people fall for the wfp 'earn tons of money' dream.

The wfp industry is dependant on more people starting to use the big start up wfp cost whereas the traditional style of window cleaning industry is dependant on repeat sales of equipment.

It's not is one better than the the other, it's profit for the various companies and for the life of me, why so many miss that point is a mystery to me.

[groundhog]

I have a wfp system which I purchased after listening to the stories on this and other forums about how great wfp is, and I started to believe that I could not continue in this business without one.
So I purchased one and after 4 Months of using it all day everyday suddenly realised that life was so much simpler and pleasant when I used ladders, so I got out my ladders again and I now enjoy my job again. I still use wfp for commercial but for most houses I prefer my ladders.

I have found out that most of the people who where recommending wfp to me were suppliers and not window cleaners at all. 

[james cairns]

ross and groundhog I always enjoy reading your posts


because they are true posts
 telling the true story as it is
 from true window cleaners
with true experience

the guys doing this game day in day out to all sorts of work know

 when to pull the pole out and when to take the ladders off and still carry out a safe clean

nice to be back in the real world

from jinky

[Paul Coleman]

Trad Cleaner here, watch out a lot of the people who post on here are suppliers of wfp equipment so are very biased. I think that the majority of window cleaners in the UK are still Trad, but you wouldn't think it if you listen to some of the posts on here!!

Trad is best, just ask the customers!!!

I'm surprised by the ratio of WFP to Trad on here too.  In the areas that I work, I've not seen any other window cleaners using WFP on domestic.  I've met one who was about to start with WFP though.
It may just be that people who are doing all their W/Cing the trad way, tend not to bother with forums as there is less info needed.

[P®oPole™]

Trad Cleaner here, watch out a lot of the people who post on here are suppliers of wfp equipment so are very biased. I think that the majority of window cleaners in the UK are still Trad, but you wouldn't think it if you listen to some of the posts on here!!

Trad is best, just ask the customers!!!

we know all the suplliers on here, your a bit behind on times mate.

you ask my customers what they think of wfp, my customers would never go back to trad now, EVER.

YOUR LIVING IN THE DARK AGES SUNSHINE!!!!!

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

QUE:

SQUEEKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trevor Knight]

Oh great, here we go again, I think I am going to go right to the back of the classroom and watch this one develop. 

Best wishes,

Trev

[jeff1]

He he! I can see this one developing into handbags at dawn 

[Moderator David@stives]

My customers dont care how i clean there windows , they just want them clean.

I can clean trad as good as wfp, those who think wfp is superior may not have a good squeegie  technique.

I choose to use wfp where ever i can due to safety and laziness, i use about 600 litres a day, some times i know i will be a lot faster with a ladder, but that does not concern me.

I know i am happier generaly cleaning with wfp, it takes less thinking about, basically when you have analysed the method , it is just point and squirt, simple as that.

I earn more money with wfp but that is due to renewed interest in the job and having more energy to work more hours rather than wfp being faster.

On 90% of my work wfp is no faster than trad.

I would reccommend wfp to anyone for one reason only SAFETY , that is a good enough reason for anyone, it only takes one fall from above say 12 feet to totally ruin your life.

Get wise, get smart, get wfp

Dave

[Pj]

I think that just about sums it up!

[groundhog]

WHO ARE YOU CALLING SUNSHINE?   MR PROPOLE AGE 21 AND A HALF!!

You do not know who all the suppliers are on this forum as I know for a fact that many pose as window cleaners to big up wfp. I am merely trying to redress the balance a bit and tell it like it is. WFP is great for large commercial jobs and cerain larger domestics, but in the main if you clean mainly houses you do not need wfp, its nice to have for certain jobs, but you can get along quite nicely without it!!

As for living in the dark ages MR PROPOLE, I hope you are prepared for when WFP is banned due to the excessive amount of water it uses. Grow up sunny boy .

Thanks Jinky for your kind words, and heres to keeping it real!!

[Trevor Knight]

I hope you are prepared for when WFP is banned due to the excessive amount of water it uses.

Will that be the same day the local water authorities mend all their leaks and stop wasting billions of gallons each year??

 

[jeff1]

Oh great, here we go again, I think I am going to go right to the back of the classroom and watch this one develop. 

Best wishes,

Trev

Trevor I though you were going to the back of the class room 

[Trevor Knight]

I just had a quick sprint to the front and now am back off to the back, WATER BAN indeed lol

 

[groundhog]

Its on the cards Trevor, you can laugh as loud as you like, but no one can deny that wfp is a big waste of water!!  I hope that there isn't a ban but it could well happen in the near future.

[P®oPole™]

groundhog give it a rest mate.

"trad is best ask the customers" leave it out.

[groundhog]

Propole if you had read my previous posts you would realise that I have a wfp system, but only use it on my large commercial contracts, I use trad for houses as I find it easier and I prefer it. You were the one who started to sling insults and start shouting. Perhaps I should make allowances as you are very young and feel the need to shout and boast!

[P®oPole™]

dont slag of how I work then.

I changed my previous post because i can not be asked with this "mines better than yours" lark, just rember alot of us use wfp and for you to say were inferior is wrong, we have all been trad shiners and have now found a more affect working practise, not to say we dont still trad, I still use my squeegee every day.

[groundhog]

I am entitled to express my opinion, I know it is hard to accept that the job can be done equally well with trad when you have spent thousands on a wfp system, I should know!

[P®oPole™]

I was going to leave this but I refuse to be mugged off, I’m not going to post again on this tread groundhog, so say what you want lets just be “GROWN UP” about this please.

“21 AND A HALF”
“GROW UP SUNNY BOY”
“IM STILL VERY YOUNG”

Your comments don’t offend me in the slightest it just reminds me that time is on my side, I’m not going to bore you to much, I’ve said it before but it’s a young world hog. The next generation is here and we can do anything you can, look around from the ntl guy who comes to your home to the accountant that you may use, teachers, doctors, police officers, young people are every were and capable of doing anything.

I’m not pretending I'm some big shot, my business is still relatively small, but I’ve got good people behind me and support of a major organisation with endless benefits of advisors, marketing, accountants and solicitors etc and many more business tools.

 I have worked hard from scratch to build my little empire, and one day I hope to be one of the big boys, not mentioning names but yea sure I would like to be in the position of some of these guys on here one day, they have done well for themselves and since I’m only 21 and a half as you say I have plenty of time to get there. How much time do you have left?

To succeed in business, I had to employ the on going development and implementation of a balanced and workable set of policies and procedures which helped me deliver the highest standards of consistency in my business performance.
By compliance with such a set of policies and procedures I created a certain level of performance required my employee’s or anyone who works on my behalf to become more professional and effective in all that we do and, indeed, what we strive to do.
This, in its turn, improves the standard of service that we deliver to our customers and clients.

Fair enough put your opinion in but leave out all the “trad is better” crap, and as for slinging insulting comments, I don’t recall doing that even on the post I altered. But as for your comments as mentioned above I’m not offended but easily could have been so why don’t you do a bit of growing up cause if age brings what it has to you mate I’m slightly worried.

You’re trying to be a squeaky and its just not working mate, squeaky can get away with it everyone has kind of grown to love his anti-wfp posts, he is someone you love to hate, but you’re just taking it a wee bit far.

[groundhog]

  : Yawn!!  Isn't it past your bedtime ProPole, you have a busy day building your empire tomorrow!

Nighty night