[Marc Stock]

Had to chuckle to myself. 

Many of you know I live in a very affluent area; with a lot of wealth being flaunted about. Its not uncommon to see Ferrari's and even more so McLaren's driving about through Knaphill and Woking these days especially as Knaphill is almost directly next to Hook Heath one of the most exclusive areas for housing and country estates outside Guildford.

I am fair with my pricing; and i have built up a good reputation for being fair no matter how big or small the property is. To me it doesn't matter if you have a large country mansion or a 1 bedroom starter home; i don't "add on" a bit to my rate because they are wealthy nor do i offer discounts to those whom are struggling. My rate is my rate and that's it; only thing i'm interested in is 1)Do they want them cleaned? and 2) Are they going to pay?

There is this lane that i have in the Hook Heath area, with many properties i clean. Some are monthly, some are bi-monthly and some are quarterly. I got a new inquiry from a quarterly recommendation yesterday that is a an existing small-ish £50 job.

I show up at the property, and she opens the door "Hi Marc" she goes "you have been very well recommended by many on this road" "why thank "you i said.

I have a look at the property; its minging! Green algae all over the older part of the property; they obviously had a lot of building work done because another 2 thirds of the property has been added on the back with a conservatory (bit old fashioned now in my opinion; but there you go). So i ask her and her husband what sort of frequency would they like?

"well we would like you to do a clean and see how it goes from there!"- Strike 1 for them as far as i'm concerned

Ok I said, "ill give you a price for a one-off clean and then options for monthly, bi-monthly, and quarterly cleans" - I can see their faces changing from being a rather positive "we are in control of you, and you are privileged to have us ask you for our custom" to a more detached "Ok he perhaps is going to be not as easy as we expect"

So i price up the 1st clean and it comes to £165 in total.

Then after a quarterly clean option of £60; Bi-Monthly £48; Monthly £38

"to be honest Marc we think that is way too much" Why? I ask? Well we were thinking about £50 for the clean and if we were happy with the job we would call you to arrange another clean? So i said" how long do you think it would take you to do the work yourself?, the penny dropping "well yes i can see its a lot of work" exactly i said. What makes you think that spending hours and hours scrubbing the windows, getting them perfect on the 1st clean for 50 quid is a fair and reasonable price to pay? Embarrassed a bit, they could see my point.

I then stated that i have to make a certain profit per customer; and that i am running a business to make a profit for services exhanged.

They fully understood; but by then I could see that it was a no go from their point of view.

Honestly speaking what were they expecting? Me to turn up in a flat cap; happy to agree to a cup of tea and a few shillings and the privilege of being in their company as payment or what?
 






 

[Smudger]

Yes - that’s exactly what they hoped  for.

You handled it well, but I don’t go into the I need to make a living/ profit speal - they just don’t give a jot.

Darran

[dazmond]

Yes - that’s exactly what they hoped  for.

You handled it well, but I don’t go into the I need to make a living/ profit speal - they just don’t give a jot.

Darran

same......i just walk away after setting out my stall.some people really havent got a clue(esp  if they ve never run their own business) or just expect you to work for peanuts....

[nathankaye]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

[dazmond]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

Nathan? Not waffling on? 

i dont believe it either marc!....i reckon nathan hands them a 4 page letter(on A4 paper)telling them why he charges the prices he charges....

[nathankaye]

Haha, I did say "extra waffle" as I probably bored them to death with my pre waffle first 

[nathankaye]

Haha, I did say "extra waffle" as I probably bored them to death with my pre waffle first 

😁😁😁 so asking the expert of waffle....was my waffle under the category of just 'waffle' or was it heading in the direction of 'extra waffle' in your expert opinion? 

Well you did ask, 😂😂 it was extra waffle as you said they got the point but you still carried on and then added about your profit making side ofthe price. So sadly, you exceeded me more so
😂😂

[John Mart]

Had to chuckle to myself. 

Many of you know I live in a very affluent area; with a lot of wealth being flaunted about. Its not uncommon to see Ferrari's and even more so McLaren's driving about through Knaphill and Woking these days especially as Knaphill is almost directly next to Hook Heath one of the most exclusive areas for housing and country estates outside Guildford.

I am fair with my pricing; and i have built up a good reputation for being fair no matter how big or small the property is. To me it doesn't matter if you have a large country mansion or a 1 bedroom starter home; i don't "add on" a bit to my rate because they are wealthy nor do i offer discounts to those whom are struggling. My rate is my rate and that's it; only thing i'm interested in is 1)Do they want them cleaned? and 2) Are they going to pay?

There is this lane that i have in the Hook Heath area, with many properties i clean. Some are monthly, some are bi-monthly and some are quarterly. I got a new inquiry from a quarterly recommendation yesterday that is a an existing small-ish £50 job.

I show up at the property, and she opens the door "Hi Marc" she goes "you have been very well recommended by many on this road" "why thank "you i said.

I have a look at the property; its minging! Green algae all over the older part of the property; they obviously had a lot of building work done because another 2 thirds of the property has been added on the back with a conservatory (bit old fashioned now in my opinion; but there you go). So i ask her and her husband what sort of frequency would they like?

"well we would like you to do a clean and see how it goes from there!"- Strike 1 for them as far as i'm concerned

Ok I said, "ill give you a price for a one-off clean and then options for monthly, bi-monthly, and quarterly cleans" - I can see their faces changing from being a rather positive "we are in control of you, and you are privileged to have us ask you for our custom" to a more detached "Ok he perhaps is going to be not as easy as we expect"

So i price up the 1st clean and it comes to £165 in total.

Then after a quarterly clean option of £60; Bi-Monthly £48; Monthly £38

"to be honest Marc we think that is way too much" Why? I ask? Well we were thinking about £50 for the clean and if we were happy with the job we would call you to arrange another clean? So i said" how long do you think it would take you to do the work yourself?, the penny dropping "well yes i can see its a lot of work" exactly i said. What makes you think that spending hours and hours scrubbing the windows, getting them perfect on the 1st clean for 50 quid is a fair and reasonable price to pay? Embarrassed a bit, they could see my point.

I then stated that i have to make a certain profit per customer; and that i am running a business to make a profit for services exhanged.

They fully understood; but by then I could see that it was a no go from their point of view.

Honestly speaking what were they expecting? Me to turn up in a flat cap; happy to agree to a cup of tea and a few shillings and the privilege of being in their company as payment or what?
 

Someone will turn up and do it for £50.

[Don Kee]

Do you normally price your first cleans at over 4x the monthly rate (fair play if you do!) or did you price that way knowing they’d be messers..?

[lal]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

 Nathan what do you mean you don't go into extra Waffle, it didn't stop you in the past 

[Paul Wisdom]

As 8 weekly said they will get in done for £50 I bet 

[Stoots]

£165 doea sound a little steep for a monthly £38 quidder.

I think maybe you are shooting yourself in the foot... especially if you are looking for growth, fair enough if you are stacked and don't want any more but if you are looking to grow you have to take a little risk here and there.

I generally don't charge a first clean price, sometimes I can be doing first cleans all day for £100-£150 but im not looking for short term gratification, Im playing the long game.

Sure you get messers and do work for pittance at times but my focus isn't what I can earn right now it's simply one of growth.

But then you won't see many ferrari`s round here!

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

Could you try that on here too......please, pretty please.....Per-Leeeeeeaaaaase?

[Smudger]

[Frankybadboy]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

Nathan? Not waffling on? 

i dont believe it either marc!....i reckon nathan hands them a 4 page letter(on A4 paper)telling them why he charges the prices he charges....

He would have video it as well 

[nathankaye]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

Nathan? Not waffling on? 

i dont believe it either marc!....i reckon nathan hands them a 4 page letter(on A4 paper)telling them why he charges the prices he charges....

He would have video it as well 

Cheers!!   That's a great idea, I was struggling with what to do for my next vid but a tutorial is a fantastic idea!




😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Slacky]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

Thats a load of bollox.

[nathankaye]

Same as above, I justify my fair price without going into extra waffle about my profit margins etc.

Thats a load of bollox.

I have the load of bollox's which means your just the🍆.       

Was that too short, or do I need more waffle 

[G Griffin]

Had to chuckle to myself. 

Many of you know I live in a very affluent area; with a lot of wealth being flaunted about. Its not uncommon to see Ferrari's and even more so McLaren's driving about through Knaphill and Woking these days especially as Knaphill is almost directly next to Hook Heath one of the most exclusive areas for housing and country estates outside Guildford.

I am fair with my pricing; and i have built up a good reputation for being fair no matter how big or small the property is. To me it doesn't matter if you have a large country mansion or a 1 bedroom starter home; i don't "add on" a bit to my rate because they are wealthy nor do i offer discounts to those whom are struggling. My rate is my rate and that's it; only thing i'm interested in is 1)Do they want them cleaned? and 2) Are they going to pay?

There is this lane that i have in the Hook Heath area, with many properties i clean. Some are monthly, some are bi-monthly and some are quarterly. I got a new inquiry from a quarterly recommendation yesterday that is a an existing small-ish £50 job.

I show up at the property, and she opens the door "Hi Marc" she goes "you have been very well recommended by many on this road" "why thank "you i said.

I have a look at the property; its minging! Green algae all over the older part of the property; they obviously had a lot of building work done because another 2 thirds of the property has been added on the back with a conservatory (bit old fashioned now in my opinion; but there you go). So i ask her and her husband what sort of frequency would they like?

"well we would like you to do a clean and see how it goes from there!"- Strike 1 for them as far as i'm concerned

Ok I said, "ill give you a price for a one-off clean and then options for monthly, bi-monthly, and quarterly cleans" - I can see their faces changing from being a rather positive "we are in control of you, and you are privileged to have us ask you for our custom" to a more detached "Ok he perhaps is going to be not as easy as we expect"

So i price up the 1st clean and it comes to £165 in total.

Then after a quarterly clean option of £60; Bi-Monthly £48; Monthly £38

"to be honest Marc we think that is way too much" Why? I ask? Well we were thinking about £50 for the clean and if we were happy with the job we would call you to arrange another clean? So i said" how long do you think it would take you to do the work yourself?, the penny dropping "well yes i can see its a lot of work" exactly i said. What makes you think that spending hours and hours scrubbing the windows, getting them perfect on the 1st clean for 50 quid is a fair and reasonable price to pay? Embarrassed a bit, they could see my point.

I then stated that i have to make a certain profit per customer; and that i am running a business to make a profit for services exhanged.

They fully understood; but by then I could see that it was a no go from their point of view.

Honestly speaking what were they expecting? Me to turn up in a flat cap; happy to agree to a cup of tea and a few shillings and the privilege of being in their company as payment or what?
 

Someone will turn up and do it for £50.

I'll do it for nowt.
I couldn't get past the 'many of you know I live in a very affluent area' and not despair.
I'll do it gratis, nick the lawnmower (or him and it if it's a sit on), scratch the McLaren and still be home for Bullseye.
The pretentiousness of window cleaners these days, makes me want to go back to thieving.

[Spruce]

Had to chuckle to myself. 

Many of you know I live in a very affluent area; with a lot of wealth being flaunted about. Its not uncommon to see Ferrari's and even more so McLaren's driving about through Knaphill and Woking these days especially as Knaphill is almost directly next to Hook Heath one of the most exclusive areas for housing and country estates outside Guildford.

I am fair with my pricing; and i have built up a good reputation for being fair no matter how big or small the property is. To me it doesn't matter if you have a large country mansion or a 1 bedroom starter home; i don't "add on" a bit to my rate because they are wealthy nor do i offer discounts to those whom are struggling. My rate is my rate and that's it; only thing i'm interested in is 1)Do they want them cleaned? and 2) Are they going to pay?

There is this lane that i have in the Hook Heath area, with many properties i clean. Some are monthly, some are bi-monthly and some are quarterly. I got a new inquiry from a quarterly recommendation yesterday that is a an existing small-ish £50 job.

I show up at the property, and she opens the door "Hi Marc" she goes "you have been very well recommended by many on this road" "why thank "you i said.

I have a look at the property; its minging! Green algae all over the older part of the property; they obviously had a lot of building work done because another 2 thirds of the property has been added on the back with a conservatory (bit old fashioned now in my opinion; but there you go). So i ask her and her husband what sort of frequency would they like?

"well we would like you to do a clean and see how it goes from there!"- Strike 1 for them as far as i'm concerned

Ok I said, "ill give you a price for a one-off clean and then options for monthly, bi-monthly, and quarterly cleans" - I can see their faces changing from being a rather positive "we are in control of you, and you are privileged to have us ask you for our custom" to a more detached "Ok he perhaps is going to be not as easy as we expect"

So i price up the 1st clean and it comes to £165 in total.

Then after a quarterly clean option of £60; Bi-Monthly £48; Monthly £38

"to be honest Marc we think that is way too much" Why? I ask? Well we were thinking about £50 for the clean and if we were happy with the job we would call you to arrange another clean? So i said" how long do you think it would take you to do the work yourself?, the penny dropping "well yes i can see its a lot of work" exactly i said. What makes you think that spending hours and hours scrubbing the windows, getting them perfect on the 1st clean for 50 quid is a fair and reasonable price to pay? Embarrassed a bit, they could see my point.

I then stated that i have to make a certain profit per customer; and that i am running a business to make a profit for services exhanged.

They fully understood; but by then I could see that it was a no go from their point of view.

Honestly speaking what were they expecting? Me to turn up in a flat cap; happy to agree to a cup of tea and a few shillings and the privilege of being in their company as payment or what?
 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. On sale training seminars asking that question is a road to nowhere. You have to approach them positively knowing that they want your services on a regular schedule. (They know how you work as they have spoken to others and you've been recommended.)

So the first thing would be to ask to evaluate their cleaning requirements and then set your stall out. Usually people with minging windows are quite happy leaving them that way - they probably want them cleaning for a special occasion or they are putting the property up for sale.

"We will do the first clean for £165 as we will spend a lot of time and effort getting the windows up to a high standard and then you have the choice of a quarterly clean option of £60; Bi-Monthly £48; Monthly £38. So which of those would suit your budget?

"To be honest Marc we think that is way too much".
" Why? I ask?"
" Well we were thinking about £50 for the clean and if we were happy with the job we would call you to arrange another clean?"

"I'm sorry but I don't work that way, I want to service customers who want their windows cleaned on a regular basis."
or
"I'm sorry but I prefer to service customers who want their windows cleaned on a regular basis. As an exception I will clean your windows for £165 this time but if you call me back on an as and when basis the price will be £165."

I'm not sure if I would have included this the way you have" how long do you think it would take you to do the work yourself?, the penny dropping "well yes i can see its a lot of work" exactly i said. What makes you think that spending hours and hours scrubbing the windows, getting them perfect on the 1st clean for 50 quid is a fair and reasonable price to pay?"  Embarrassed a bit, they could see my point.
Making the customer feel embarrassed might make you feel good, but it won't help your cause.

Maybe a simple, "I'm going to be spending hours and hours scrubbing those windows to get them perfectly clean. I'm afraid it isn't worth me doing it for that amount. I'm sorry.

.

[Richard Groves]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

[paul alan]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

[Richard Groves]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

Maybe, but you only need to read some threads on here to realise one persons recommendation is anothers condemnation. Some peoples expectations can be higher than others.

[nathankaye]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

Maybe, but you only need to read some threads on here to realise one persons recommendation is anothers condemnation. Some peoples expectations can be higher than others.

Yep, your on your own with this line of thinking.

Window cleaning is a service which continues and people kinda expect it to be so.  It's not a one off service like pressure washing for instance (though yes it may be repeated yearly or bi yearly).  Same for bin cleaners and gardeners for instance.
So when approached for a price etc, I also ask if they want a 4 or 8 wkly service with every new enquiry and the first clean is always extra unless they are relatively clean. If they don't like it, they have the right to cancel the service as I have the right to cancel the service if I don't like them either

[Richard Groves]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

Maybe, but you only need to read some threads on here to realise one persons recommendation is anothers condemnation. Some peoples expectations can be higher than others.

Yep, your on your own with this line of thinking.

Window cleaning is a service which continues and people kinda expect it to be so.  It's not a one off service like pressure washing for instance (though yes it may be repeated yearly or bi yearly).  Same for bin cleaners and gardeners for instance.
So when approached for a price etc, I also ask if they want a 4 or 8 wkly service with every new enquiry and the first clean is always extra unless they are relatively clean. If they don't like it, they have the right to cancel the service as I have the right to cancel the service if I don't like them either

We've recently taken on a gardener Nathan. Not once did he lay down any terms regarding a regular service. We made a booking and said we'd see how it goes and how regular we would need him. As it goes, we really like him. Found him friendly, knowledgable and a hard worker at a fair price . We've called on his services twice now in last 3 months and feel him to be trustworthy enough to leave him with a key to access through the garage next month.  And thats my point really.
I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

[Richard Groves]

[/quote]

Yep, your on your own with this line of thinking.


[/quote]
Apart from cookie 

[John Mart]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

Maybe, but you only need to read some threads on here to realise one persons recommendation is anothers condemnation. Some peoples expectations can be higher than others.

Yep, your on your own with this line of thinking.

Window cleaning is a service which continues and people kinda expect it to be so.  It's not a one off service like pressure washing for instance (though yes it may be repeated yearly or bi yearly).  Same for bin cleaners and gardeners for instance.
So when approached for a price etc, I also ask if they want a 4 or 8 wkly service with every new enquiry and the first clean is always extra unless they are relatively clean. If they don't like it, they have the right to cancel the service as I have the right to cancel the service if I don't like them either

We've recently taken on a gardener Nathan. Not once did he lay down any terms regarding a regular service. We made a booking and said we'd see how it goes and how regular we would need him.

That's because he's a gardener and not a window cleaner.

[Shrek]

I know a gardener and he gets so peed of when asked to cut grass etc when the owner feels like it rather than sticking to a regular schedule and then expect him to charge the same amount when it’s overgrown again, either because they are stingy or because they don’t give a toss that it’s a lot more work. Try mowing your lawn once a week compared to once a month , it takes longer .

[AuRavelling79]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

[Richard Groves]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

Maybe, but you only need to read some threads on here to realise one persons recommendation is anothers condemnation. Some peoples expectations can be higher than others.

Yep, your on your own with this line of thinking.

Window cleaning is a service which continues and people kinda expect it to be so.  It's not a one off service like pressure washing for instance (though yes it may be repeated yearly or bi yearly).  Same for bin cleaners and gardeners for instance.
So when approached for a price etc, I also ask if they want a 4 or 8 wkly service with every new enquiry and the first clean is always extra unless they are relatively clean. If they don't like it, they have the right to cancel the service as I have the right to cancel the service if I don't like them either

We've recently taken on a gardener Nathan. Not once did he lay down any terms regarding a regular service. We made a booking and said we'd see how it goes and how regular we would need him.

That's because he's a gardener and not a window cleaner.

Nathan compared gardeners to window cleaners as being regular work not me.

[Richard Groves]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

[John Mart]

Am I alone in finding it strange that some wc's expect new customers to agree to regular cleans without first having even cleaned their windows ? ....... We are , after all , strangers to them and invited to work on their properties without any previous experience of our ability or personality other than a recommendation.

A recommendation should be enough

Maybe, but you only need to read some threads on here to realise one persons recommendation is anothers condemnation. Some peoples expectations can be higher than others.

Yep, your on your own with this line of thinking.

Window cleaning is a service which continues and people kinda expect it to be so.  It's not a one off service like pressure washing for instance (though yes it may be repeated yearly or bi yearly).  Same for bin cleaners and gardeners for instance.
So when approached for a price etc, I also ask if they want a 4 or 8 wkly service with every new enquiry and the first clean is always extra unless they are relatively clean. If they don't like it, they have the right to cancel the service as I have the right to cancel the service if I don't like them either

We've recently taken on a gardener Nathan. Not once did he lay down any terms regarding a regular service. We made a booking and said we'd see how it goes and how regular we would need him.

That's because he's a gardener and not a window cleaner.

Nathan compared gardeners to window cleaners as being regular work not me.

That was daft then as actually gardeners struggle in the winter.

[nathankaye]

My point was simply that some services are expected to be offered on a regular basis and not as a one off service.   Window cleaning services being one of them

[Slacky]

My point was simply that some services are expected to be offered on a regular basis and not as a one off service.   Window cleaning services being one of them

Not according to everyone.

[Ian Lancaster]

I couldn't be bothered with all the to-ing and fro-ing - life's too short, especially from my perspective .  Someone enquires, I ask: "Would you like a one-off or a regular service?"

If they say "One-off" I give them the number of a window cleaner who will do it for them.

If they say "Regular" I say "We offer 4 or 8 weekly at the same price.  We don't do one-offs which is why I ask that question to start with.  We don't charge extra for the first clean because we want an ongoing arrangement with you." 

Once I've established these terms, I then quote the price.  It's on a 'take it or leave it' basis' - I don't negotiate.

We don't charge differently for 4 or 8 weekly - the actual accumulation of extra dirt is indistinguishable.

Works for us, keeps it simple

[Richard Groves]

My point was simply that some services are expected to be offered on a regular basis and not as a one off service.   Window cleaning services being one of them

Not according to everyone.

Just tried to illustrate a point that was all.
"well we would like you to do a clean and see how it goes from there!"
Nothing really wrong with the above imo, like I've said why should anybody agree to regular window cleaning before you've even cleaned a pane of glass ?
You might be utterly crap at it or even smash one of their windows giving them deep psychological trauma ! 

Marc I'm struggling myself to see how you thought £165 was justifiable just because they wanted to see how things go.
They probably had £50 in their head because of the recommendation. However thats still nearly 3 times what you'd charge them for a quarterly clean ! How long did you think the job would take in this instance ?

[G Griffin]

I think what you should do is agree to a regular clean and cancel if you're not happy.
Or pay the extra for one-off(s).
My worry would be why were the windows so bad.
I try and guage how much of priority their windows are to them. It very often it tells me what sort of customer they are going to be.

[DeLuce]

"well we would like you to do a clean and see how it goes from there!"- Strike 1 for them as far as i'm concerned

For me, the above words from the op and conversation do it for me. It rings alarm bells in my head.
In my experience, people that say the words , "........and we'll see how it goes from there!", tend to be messers. And want cleans on a whim.  Which is fine if you price accordingly and don't mind slotting them into your round whenever THEY require it. But, if you have regular customers, albeit, monthly, 8wkly or quarterly, you might not want the faff of irregular work which could screw your busy schedule up.

[dazmond]

a "one off" clean is no problem if their honest from the start and i have the time to fit them in.i do charge at least double the normal "maintenance clean" price though.

i have a few regular window cleaning customers who have rental properties i clean from time to time and i charge a "one off" clean price every time(they usually havent been cleaned for at least a year!)

[AuRavelling79]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

[chris turner]

Marc...

I know about what I'm about to say will offend you, so I apologise in advance for taking a swipe at you like this. I'm not usually one to start drama on the forum (  ).
After reading this thread however I have to mention this..
So I was sat in my van in Woking 6 weeks ago eating my lunch, when I see a pole go up on the other side of a fence in front of me.
I watched as this pole cleaned all the top windows of this house, to what seemed to me, a terrible standard .
Frames were not touched, glass was given a really quick brush with no rinsing, sills were missed 
Just seemed extremely splash and dash to me.
It wasn't until I finished my lunch and drove around the corner that I saw your van parked in the drive

Now after seeing that I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not cause any dramas. But when reading the prices you quote, well, frankly I find it quite absurd that you actually get away with charging those prices.

I was really torn about whether to actually post this,  as I didn't want to burst your bubble whilst your on your "big push" to 80k. It's just that you expect customers to sign up to your regular service, at a premium price, before they can even see the results of your work. If they don't you quote them ridiculous prices or ridicule them on a forum.
I find that very unreasonable tbh.

[Richard Groves]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

Correctamondo !
Perfect answer.
Although some prospective customers can be a little apprehensive to agreeing to anything on a first meeting prior to having actually completed any work. It can be frustrating for us and requires a sixth sense to fathom their intentions. I was merely suggesting we not forget that. Trust is a two way thing. Sure, we'll all be had at some time but often ( in my experience anyway ) its nothing more than needing to prove ourselves to be honest and reliable workers.

Chris Turner, you've just posted the above whilst I was replying but without intending to make this personal to Marc , it  has illustrated my point perfectly !
 I'm giving it a like for that reason  ( don't be offended Marc )

[Shrek]

Oh dear 🤭

[chris turner]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

Correctamondo !
Perfect answer.
Although some prospective customers can be a little apprehensive to agreeing to anything on a first meeting prior to having actually completed any work. It can be frustrating for us and requires a sixth sense to fathom their intentions. I was merely suggesting we not forget that. Trust is a two way thing. Sure, we'll all be had at some time but often ( in my experience anyway ) its nothing more than needing to prove ourselves to be honest and reliable workers.

Chris Turner, you've just posted the above whilst I was replying but without intending to make this personal to Marc , it  has illustrated my point perfectly !
 I'm giving it a like for that reason  ( don't be offended Marc )

As I said I was really caught in 2 minds about whether to say anything. I haven't got anything against Marc, he seems like a fairly decent bloke so I didn't really want to offend him.
My problem though, as anyone who knows me on this forum will testify too, is that I speak my mind freely, often to freely where I get myself in to arguments.
On this occasion I completely agreed with where you were coming from, and coincedently it just happened that marc himself was proving your point, which is why I shared.

I hope however that Marc will not be too offended by my critique, but rather take heed of it, and perhaps it could help him grow and actually be a "premium" business like his prices suggest.

[Stoots]

This should be good

First time I've read a post where a windy has seen another windy working and pointed out his poor work   

In Marc's defence perhaps the frames, sills didn't need a real good scrub, and perhaps he gets a good result without a rinse..some seem to do that, I personally always rinse but if he's getting no complaints and people are paying his prices then what's the problem..

[Marc Stock]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

Correctamondo !
Perfect answer.
Although some prospective customers can be a little apprehensive to agreeing to anything on a first meeting prior to having actually completed any work. It can be frustrating for us and requires a sixth sense to fathom their intentions. I was merely suggesting we not forget that. Trust is a two way thing. Sure, we'll all be had at some time but often ( in my experience anyway ) its nothing more than needing to prove ourselves to be honest and reliable workers.

Chris Turner, you've just posted the above whilst I was replying but without intending to make this personal to Marc , it  has illustrated my point perfectly !
 I'm giving it a like for that reason  ( don't be offended Marc )

As I said I was really caught in 2 minds about whether to say anything. I haven't got anything against Marc, he seems like a fairly decent bloke so I didn't really want to offend him.
My problem though, as anyone who knows me on this forum will testify too, is that I speak my mind freely, often to freely where I get myself in to arguments.
On this occasion I completely agreed with where you were coming from, and coincedently it just happened that marc himself was proving your point, which is why I shared.

I hope however that Marc will not be too offended by my critique, but rather take heed of it, and perhaps it could help him grow and actually be a "premium" business like his prices suggest.

Hiya Chris.

Whilst i do appreciate your critique; and that you seem to think that by me 'splash and dashing' as you so speak of is something of major alarm to you, i havent had any complaints from my customers  with my quality of work.

Now im not going to get into a slanging match with you over the perceived  'correct' methods of cleaning; but i can tell you this. I do clean all the frames and sills, and i do a thoroughly adequate job. I do work fast; and i do work efficiently.

I do see alot of water fed pole operators needlessly scrubbing and 'rinsing' (with the brush off the glass) in the illusion that they are somehow doing a 'superior' job or a better standard of work; and yet they are happy to work with water at 1ppm or even 10 and higher.  When in fact all they are doing is wasting time; wasting water; and loosing money.

The fact is i have been doing window cleaning for 16 years; and i dont know how long you have been in the game; but i can tell you this if you had any ounce of respect for a fellow window cleaner you would message that person privately 1st.

[dazmond]

some guys are just crap at cleaning windows......you should clean windows as if someones watching you from across the road at all times....i always clean frames/sills/doors every time on every property.the only exception is some top frames get missed if their problematic and are just cleaned periodically.i always rinse too(usually off the glass)......you can still clean fast.unfortunately some WCs get greedy and cut corners....personally i wouldnt be comfortable doing this....

[dazmond]

Marc...

I know about what I'm about to say will offend you, so I apologise in advance for taking a swipe at you like this. I'm not usually one to start drama on the forum (  ).
After reading this thread however I have to mention this..
So I was sat in my van in Woking 6 weeks ago eating my lunch, when I see a pole go up on the other side of a fence in front of me.
I watched as this pole cleaned all the top windows of this house, to what seemed to me, a terrible standard .
Frames were not touched, glass was given a really quick brush with no rinsing, sills were missed 
Just seemed extremely splash and dash to me.
It wasn't until I finished my lunch and drove around the corner that I saw your van parked in the drive

Now after seeing that I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not cause any dramas. But when reading the prices you quote, well, frankly I find it quite absurd that you actually get away with charging those prices.

I was really torn about whether to actually post this,  as I didn't want to burst your bubble whilst your on your "big push" to 80k. It's just that you expect customers to sign up to your regular service, at a premium price, before they can even see the results of your work. If they don't you quote them ridiculous prices or ridicule them on a forum.
I find that very unreasonable tbh.

perhaps it was staff or his missus cleaning the windows and not marc himself?

[Marc Stock]

Its ok Dazmond. I think he finds me a threat; i have a feeling i know who it is.

Chris was you that referred me to that job in StJohns?

[Steven Biggs]

Chris . Why didn’t you door knock the custy pointing out the mess of the frames and cills . And give  a price . Then follow him round knocking his custys .

[Marc Stock]

Ahah. I know who you are.

Hi Marc.
Your address on your website is 30 st johns rd Woking..
I clean those little blocks of flats directly across the road from you! ( Priors court )

Il have to pop in for a coffee one day 

Just give me a bell on the phone number chris and ill be happy to meet up to have some coffee.

I befriended you and this is how you pay me back?

If you are happy to slag me off on a public forum and make up lies about my work; you should go back to the customer you passed onto me opposite priors court and ask him about my quality of work, which by the way is higher priced than you were, i wont go into details about his opinions of your prev work; but for the record i have a number of other houses now on that road too; so of course i must be doing a bad job eh?

I might sue You for character defamation.

[chris turner]

Marc...

Not sure why you think I would find you a threat. I have enough customers with no intention of growing further, especially in Woking, would you be a threat to me?
I'm just telling it how I saw it, simple. Why would I come on here and make it up?
And you say I should private pm you?
"Oh hey Marc, saw you out cleaning windows today, didn't think you done a great job to be honest". Wouldn't that be a little odd if you received that out of the blue lol.
Yes I passed you a job in st John's ages ago, you were the only other shiner I knew  in Woking at the time. 
As I said previously Marc, don't get to upset, i stated my observations, perhaps your opinions of what is a "good " job is different to mine.
Just with the prices you like to command, I would of expected better quite frankly.

[Slacky]

Ahah. I know who you are.

Hi Marc.
Your address on your website is 30 st johns rd Woking..
I clean those little blocks of flats directly across the road from you! ( Priors court )

Il have to pop in for a coffee one day 

Just give me a bell on the phone number chris and ill be happy to meet up to have some coffee.

I befriended you and this is how you pay me back?

If you are happy to slag me off on a public forum and make up lies about my work; you should go back to the customer you passed onto me opposite priors court and ask him about my quality of work, which by the way is higher priced than you were, i wont go into details about his opinions of your prev work; but for the record i have a number of other houses now on that road too; so of course i must be doing a bad job eh?

I might sue You for deformation of character

It’s defamation. Unless you really think he was suggesting your character is deformed.

[chris turner]

Ahah. I know who you are.

Hi Marc.
Your address on your website is 30 st johns rd Woking..
I clean those little blocks of flats directly across the road from you! ( Priors court )

Il have to pop in for a coffee one day 

Just give me a bell on the phone number chris and ill be happy to meet up to have some coffee.

I befriended you and this is how you pay me back?

If you are happy to slag me off on a public forum and make up lies about my work; you should go back to the customer you passed onto me opposite priors court and ask him about my quality of work, which by the way is higher priced than you were, i wont go into details about his opinions of your prev work; but for the record i have a number of other houses now on that road too; so of course i must be doing a bad job eh?

I might sue You for deformation of character

Think you have your numbers crossed Marc.
I passed you a contact in pantiles close, st John's, of someone who id NEVER cleaned for before.
I use to clean around 10 houses in pantiles but most of them were a pain as could only gain access to the rear through garages. I got fed up of people forgetting to leave garages unlocked or receiving txts, "we're  away, can you come back next week?".
So I decided to drop the whole road.
Not long after I received a call from someone in pantiles asking if I could clean their windows, I explained why I no longer work on that road and then passed them your details.
I don't or never have cleaned any thing opposite of priors court, although I do clean the whole of priors court flats.

[Marc Stock]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline. And well under the belt.

By the looks of things im not the only one on the receiving end of your so called expert critique either.

[G Griffin]

Marc...

I know about what I'm about to say will offend you, so I apologise in advance for taking a swipe at you like this. I'm not usually one to start drama on the forum (  ).
After reading this thread however I have to mention this..
So I was sat in my van in Woking 6 weeks ago eating my lunch, when I see a pole go up on the other side of a fence in front of me.
I watched as this pole cleaned all the top windows of this house, to what seemed to me, a terrible standard .
Frames were not touched, glass was given a really quick brush with no rinsing, sills were missed 
Just seemed extremely splash and dash to me.
It wasn't until I finished my lunch and drove around the corner that I saw your van parked in the drive

Now after seeing that I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not cause any dramas. But when reading the prices you quote, well, frankly I find it quite absurd that you actually get away with charging those prices.

I was really torn about whether to actually post this,  as I didn't want to burst your bubble whilst your on your "big push" to 80k. It's just that you expect customers to sign up to your regular service, at a premium price, before they can even see the results of your work. If they don't you quote them ridiculous prices or ridicule them on a forum.
I find that very unreasonable tbh.

That wasn't me nicking the lawnmower in that effluent area of McLarens and dirty sills, you know  .
And why is everyone using the word 'critique' all of a sudden? 
Critiquing and suing? This is what happens when businessmen have to lower themselves to cleaning windows  .

[chris turner]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline liable. And well under the belt.

I'm just saying, for the prices you claim to charge, I would expect perfection if I was your customer. That's not what I saw I'm afraid.
I have absolutely no reason to lie or put you down.
As I said previously,  I think you are being unreasonable towards your customers, or potential customers.
If you would like to charge a premium, then surely the customer has every right to see your work before signing up to a regular service?

Perhaps I have set my cleaning standards too high and, admittedly, on occasions I over clean. That's how i like it though, no complaints and I never lose customers unless they move etc.
With that in mind, perhaps I am often overly critical of other guys I see out working. In your case Marc, with your prices, I would of thought you would of had similar standards to my own.
I was more surprised then anything when I saw your van.

At the end of the day though, if you can come on here and criticise cumstomers, you should be willing to take the odd bit of criticism yourself. All this "sue" me malarkey, theres no need for it. Man up, live and learn bud.
I am my own worst critic, trust me.

[G Griffin]

I refer the defendant to his description of his work: 'thoroughly adequate'.
What does that mean? Adequate? 

[Marc Stock]

Well there is minging  £50 one off clean job with your name on it Chris; your more than welcome to it clearly youd be happy to do it by the looks of things.

Your opinion is just that; your opinion. I do work quickly and efficiently. I never let my water go above 0ppm. If your the sort that likes to stand there rinsing the glass with 100 litres of water  every time you clean its probbably because you need to change your resin a bit more regularly. If you was at 0ppm no need to waste time flooding the windows rinising..its one if the biggest indicators that the user has no confidence in his equipment.

[chris turner]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline. And well under the belt.

By the looks of things im not the only one on the receiving end of your so called expert critique either.

I did point out my flaws 

I don't come on these forums much these days as I'm prone to over speaking my mind and causing one or 3 upsets.
I saw what I saw though Marc, I could tell you the exact road and date. I have no reason to lie. You 100% did not touch the frames or sills on the job I watched you clean. Then you didn't rinse, which if you don't clean the frames thoroughly, is a recipe for disaster.

[G Griffin]

Marc, did you touch the frames and sills? Can you not remember?
Chris, what were you having for lunch that day?
Can you sue someone for liable and deformation? 
Will we now have a 'slide to 8k' thread?
Does anyone want to buy a posh lawnmower?

[Marc Stock]

Like i said in my prev post. If your water quality is perfect you dont need to 'rinse'

Anyway thanks for your continued dialogue. In your opinion i am a crap window cleaner. Yes thanks for that. You are entitled to your opinion i suppose and for everyone to see yeah, get the popcorn out.. of course it must be true..

I suppose you will be filming me next yeah? With a dairy of my movements? Checking up on me?

All i posted was a little antidote; one we all relate to: yes not everyone agrees; and thats the fun of it; but you have just made this very very personal.

[G Griffin]

I suppose you will be filming me next yeah? With a dairy of my movements?

No point crying over spilt milk, Marc.
Just keep targeting the cream and you will rise to the top.

[G Griffin]

All i posted was a little antidote; one we all relate to: yes not everyone agrees; and thats the fun of it; but you have just made this very very personal.

An antidote to clean windows, frames and sills?

[nathankaye]

I'm up for seeing a video of it 😂😂  beats my vids I'm sure 

To take some flack away, haha as I have a loyal band of critique followers 😂
I also do not clean the frames on every visit and my water has been 009 for several months now and I don't rinse off the glass. My work is four weekly and doesn't require the frames to be cleaned on every visit.    I also use Hot water, a massive brush as some have come to call it with cascading hot water and so the first pass is the clean and the second/third pass is the rinse.
So I disagree however with Marc's opinions on the all important 000 magical water.  At the same time however, I charge what I feel the job is worth and the customer agrees said price if they want it or not. That price is for clean windows and a satisfactory clean to them, that's all. They are not paying a separate price for windows being cleaned with an added charge for frames or sills or even their doors being wiped down.  So No, I'm not robbing or treating the customer unfairly if upon being at their property for a maintenance clean and the frames etc do not require such cleaning.

[John Mart]

So who’s the chump? The one that takes much longer and charges less or the one that’s splash and dash yet manages to get the customer to pay more?

[Stoots]

Also sounds like Chris is a bit jealous and annoyed. I mean I would be too, you see a guy doing less work than you and charging more for it. It's going to give anyone a bit of green eyed monster, it's only natural. But that's life unfortunately, either moan about it or do something about it.

[Richard Groves]

Marc. I think I've prompted Chris in to posting what he did because he agreed with my  ethics and reading between the lines is nothing more than that. It was his way of illustrating the point being made. Slagging you off and considering you a threat ? .... get a grip . I think he was as diplomatic in the way he put things as he could be.
Public forum lol. My gf thinks I'm sad for even reading posts on here 
Like they say, if you can't take it, don't put it out there.

[dazmond]

on the subject of rinsing. why wouldnt you rinse?

i scrub the glass and frames then rinse.......i thought all window cleaners did this?if you dont rinse then your risking  leaving brush marks and bits of dirt left on the windows after they ve dried.....i thought that was obvious.....

[Walter Mitty]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline. And well under the belt.

By the looks of things im not the only one on the receiving end of your so called expert critique either.

Oh Gawd.  I better not let him anywhere near my writing

[dazmond]

So who’s the chump? The one that takes much longer and charges less or the one that’s splash and dash yet manages to get the customer to pay more?

theres working fast and theres taking the p**s.......a fine line......if your not cleaning frames/sills OR rinsing either you wont be doing a good job thats for sure.....

[AuRavelling79]

I refer the defendant to his description of his work: 'thoroughly adequate'.
What does that mean? Adequate? 

It's a water course built by dyslexic Romans.

[Walter Mitty]

Personally, I do prefer to rinse off the glass, except on very high work where I spare my body by leaving the leading edge of the brush on the glass.  Although most jobs will be fine with rinsing on the glass, I've found that some aren't because they can spot high up on the pane - even with a high flow rate.  So I rinse with brush off glass just in case.  I wouldn't knock anyone's work style, just sharing some observations from my own work.

I think it's bad form to knock someone's window cleaning work on a public forum when an email would do (no PMs on here).  It seems the customers are fine, anyway.

[chris turner]

Personally I rinse off the glass and I rinse thoroughly, especially during the hot spell we had as most windows had baked on dust.
I don't agree with rinsing on the glass as I would say a large number of windows are not suitable for it.
That being said, if you are going to rinse on the glass, there is a certain way to do it. Clean the glass as normal, then take the brush to the top of the glass and in a side to side movement create a "cascade" effect whilst sweeping the brush down.
It's still rinsing, just a different method of doing so whilst marginally quicker then off the glass.
What I saw was NO rinsing on or off the glass, on a house on a busy main road.

I couldn't care less what others earn, me and the missus already earn 80k between us and live quite comfortably thanks.
I don't need any more customers or money, I think I made that clear. Why do I need to be jealous?

This is about the reputation of the window cleaning industry as a whole.
Too often I pick up new customers who have had bad experiences with wfp or who have been ripped off for an "adequate" service. 
This does wind me up. If someone is paying you for a service, then do the job properly, especially if they are paying top dollar for it.

Just put yourself in the customers shoes.
Would you pay £30 or £40 to have the windows cleaned on your 3 bed semi, to a "wholly adequate" standard?

[John Mart]

I think it's bad form to knock someone's window cleaning work on a public forum when an email would do (no PMs on here).  It seems the customers are fine, anyway.

It's a bit off isn't it. 

[John Mart]

Personally I rinse off the glass and I rinse thoroughly, especially during the hot spell we had as most windows had baked on dust.
I don't agree with rinsing on the glass as I would say a large number of windows are not suitable for it.
That being said, if you are going to rinse on the glass, there is a certain way to do it. Clean the glass as normal, then take the brush to the top of the glass and in a side to side movement create a "cascade" effect whilst sweeping the brush down.
It's still rinsing, just a different method of doing so whilst marginally quicker then off the glass.
What I saw was NO rinsing on or off the glass, on a house on a busy main road.

I couldn't care less what others earn, me and the missus already earn 80k between us and live quite comfortably thanks.
I don't need any more customers or money, I think I made that clear. Why do I need to be jealous?

This is about the reputation of the window cleaning industry as a whole.
Too often I pick up new customers who have had bad experiences with wfp or who have been ripped off for an "adequate" service. 
This does wind me up. If someone is paying you for a service, then do the job properly, especially if they are paying top dollar for it.

Just put yourself in the customers shoes.
Would you pay £30 or £40 to have the windows cleaned on your 3 bed semi, to a "wholly adequate" standard?

Mindfulness as a solution?

[AuRavelling79]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

[nathankaye]

Rinsing on glass
(oh no, it's one of nath videos    )

https://youtu.be/v0CeiiO5qoM

[chris turner]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

Ok. So for a £50 house you would agree it's fair to charge £160 odd for the first clean?

Marc started this thread out of disrespect for a customer, brazenly posting his absurd pricing, whilst I had first hand experience of why, to the contrary,  that the customer in some situations is right to want to try before they buy. Why should they pay a ridiculous price for wanting to do so?

Perhaps I shouldn't of named names, but it was just so flipping ironic that Marc himself was my evidence..

[AuRavelling79]

Well Chris - I'm simply trying to get all parties to shake hands and move on so that we continue with a peaceful helpful section of the forum.

To answer your direct question. I don't know. I may not have the nerve/strength of character/confidence to do so. If the windows are literally green with algae, will take four times the work and with no commitment to continue then I might bottle it and do it for double (say £100) at the upper end of what I normally do for a first clean.

But I haven't got a defined business plan like Marc has and he may well be able to spend his time more wisely.

[John Mart]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

Ok. So for a £50 house you would agree it's fair to charge £160 odd for the first clean?

Marc started this thread out of disrespect for a customer, brazenly posting his absurd pricing, whilst I had first hand experience of why, to the contrary,  that the customer in some situations is right to want to try before they buy. Why should they pay a ridiculous price for wanting to do so?

Perhaps I shouldn't of named names, but it was just so flipping ironic that Marc himself was my evidence..

A minging first clean could easily take 3/4 times longer so I think on a large house with a bad feeling should be priced at 3/4 times.

[chris turner]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

Ok. So for a £50 house you would agree it's fair to charge £160 odd for the first clean?

Marc started this thread out of disrespect for a customer, brazenly posting his absurd pricing, whilst I had first hand experience of why, to the contrary,  that the customer in some situations is right to want to try before they buy. Why should they pay a ridiculous price for wanting to do so?

Perhaps I shouldn't of named names, but it was just so flipping ironic that Marc himself was my evidence..

A minging first clean could easily take 3/4 times longer so I think on a large house with a bad feeling should be priced at 3/4 times.

Nope it shouldn't take that long. Maybe twice as long but 3/4 times is overly excessive and is just a number you are using to justify Marcs huge price discrepancy.
You work in a similar fashion to Marc which is why you are desperately coming to his defence 8 weekly.

Perhaps we should start a "cowboy window cleaner" name and shame thread...

[nathankaye]

Pricing is always a sore subject on here, regardless of the methods being used because clean windows are cleaned windows whichever way you want to slice it.
It always makes me laugh to myself when I speak to other shiner who try and justify why their prices are lower than others or when ones under cut just to get the job, as ultimately they are hurting themself.   If Marc charges £50 whereas others are much lower and take longer then these ones would do well to question themself rather than others.  Why are they working for maybe £10 less per clean? Just because in their head they can't justify it, yet evidence points contrary to it and yet they still insist or justify that their way is better.
As spock would say "it's highly illogical"

[chris turner]

Listen Guys. I cant be bothered anymore.

If Chris thinks that im crap at what I do; well he's entitled to his opinion. I have been seeking legal advice on this matter; and surprisingly i have options going forward; as what he has done is well below the belt. Im sorry but you dont go onto a public forum and publicly state false claims of bad workmanship on the internet about anyone without the repercussions.

Why everyone thinks that i dont wash the frames and sills; and do an epicly bad job even though they haven't met me, met customers or realisticly seen me working is beyond me. If i was that terrible at my job then the countless recommendations  i get, and my ever growing customer list which is approaching 500 simply wouldnt happen.

I take all criticism on board; im happy to discuss opinions on methods; as everyone has a different approach to business, and diferent priorities.

But what you have done Chris is publicly smear my reputation by openly accusing me of my so called "poor standard" of work and publish that on the internet which can be indexed on search engines.

I wholly refute this; and i intend to defend myself to the maximum capacity going forward. You Chris have just made a very big mistake.

The original post was not one of disrespect to any customer of mine. It was simply a lighthearted thread about customers expectations and the scenarios we face that i'd hoped; all being fellow window cleaners (removing the fellow definition for you Chris) could connect with.

This is the last you will hear from me on this subject. Its not the last you will hear from me Chris; not by a long margin.

Oh get over yourself Marc.

[chris turner]

Listen Guys. I cant be bothered anymore.

If Chris thinks that im crap at what I do; well he's entitled to his opinion. I have been seeking legal advice on this matter; and surprisingly i have options going forward; as what he has done is well below the belt. Im sorry but you dont go onto a public forum and publicly state false claims of bad workmanship on the internet about anyone without the repercussions.

Why everyone thinks that i dont wash the frames and sills; and do an epicly bad job even though they haven't met me, met customers or realisticly seen me working is beyond me. If i was that terrible at my job then the countless recommendations  i get, and my ever growing customer list which is approaching 500 simply wouldnt happen.

I take all criticism on board; im happy to discuss opinions on methods; as everyone has a different approach to business, and diferent priorities.

But what you have done Chris is publicly smear my reputation by openly accusing me of my so called "poor standard" of work and publish that on the internet which can be indexed on search engines.

I wholly refute this; and i intend to defend myself to the maximum capacity going forward. You Chris have just made a very big mistake.

The original post was not one of disrespect to any customer of mine. It was simply a lighthearted thread about customers expectations and the scenarios we face that i'd hoped; all being fellow window cleaners (removing the fellow definition for you Chris) could connect with.

This is the last you will hear from me on this subject. Its not the last you will hear from me Chris; not by a long margin.

And FYI, no I don't connect with ripping customers off.
Perhaps you should treat people more fairly if you wish to be treated that way yourself.

[chris turner]

Oh and good luck with your legal proceedings.
You are a limited company are you not?
Not once have i named and shamed your business as an entity. I have only spoken against you as an individual, no different to some tit for tat on a social media site.
Don't think I have broken any of your "celebrity" infringement rights on this occasion.
Get real bud.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

You will often find that the "money" talkers generally feel inadequate themselves. I have seen them all on here over the years- with the passage of time they usually expose their reality in one way or another and you see that they are just the same as me and thee from a business point of view! I did at one time get wound up by it- as it often seems an attemp to make others feel inadequate but now I actually lean towards pity. You have to be rather unhappy with fundamental aspects of your life to act in this way.

Before anyone Sue's , deforms or liables me, this is a general observation and not aimed at anyone. 

[John Mart]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

Ok. So for a £50 house you would agree it's fair to charge £160 odd for the first clean?

Marc started this thread out of disrespect for a customer, brazenly posting his absurd pricing, whilst I had first hand experience of why, to the contrary,  that the customer in some situations is right to want to try before they buy. Why should they pay a ridiculous price for wanting to do so?

Perhaps I shouldn't of named names, but it was just so flipping ironic that Marc himself was my evidence..

A minging first clean could easily take 3/4 times longer so I think on a large house with a bad feeling should be priced at 3/4 times.

Nope it shouldn't take that long. Maybe twice as long but 3/4 times is overly excessive and is just a number you are using to justify Marcs huge price discrepancy.
You work in a similar fashion to Marc which is why you are desperately coming to his defence 8 weekly.

Perhaps we should start a "cowboy window cleaner" name and shame thread...

If you can do a real minger in only twice as long you either don't do a thorough job or you are overcleaning on regulars.

[Walter Mitty]

Hell hath no fury ...
My take.  It can easily take three times longer to clean a minging house - though often doesn't.  First pass can be loads of scrubbing of green frames/glass etc. which can take ages in itself.  Second pass glass only to tidy up any delayed run marks.
Chris is wrong for posting public crit of another shiner's work.
Threatening legal action is plain daft.
Any decent judge would tell you both to grow a pair.
A pity really because you both seem decent guys apart from this thread.

[chris turner]

Hell hath no fury ...
My take.  It can easily take three times longer to clean a minging house - though often doesn't.  First pass can be loads of scrubbing of green frames/glass etc. which can take ages in itself.  Second pass glass only to tidy up any delayed run marks.
Chris is wrong for posting public crit of another shiner's work.
Threatening legal action is plain daft.
Any decent judge would tell you both to grow a pair.
A pity really because you both seem decent guys apart from this thread.

Soak each window in heavy duty cleaner, clean and rinse. Dirt melts away. Takes extra time to soak each window and a bit of extra rinsing but certainly not 3 or 4 times longer.

[AuRavelling79]

Well, that escalated quickly ...

 

[John Mart]

Hell hath no fury ...
My take.  It can easily take three times longer to clean a minging house - though often doesn't.  First pass can be loads of scrubbing of green frames/glass etc. which can take ages in itself.  Second pass glass only to tidy up any delayed run marks.
Chris is wrong for posting public crit of another shiner's work.
Threatening legal action is plain daft.
Any decent judge would tell you both to grow a pair.
A pity really because you both seem decent guys apart from this thread.

Soak each window in heavy duty cleaner, clean and rinse. Dirt melts away. Takes extra time to soak each window and a bit of extra rinsing but certainly not 3 or 4 times longer.

Just doing the soaking would double the time. To cover every inch of a window with a degreaser would take as long as it would to clean it on a maintenance clean. Add to that getting the backpack out. Then if you managed to get every window clean clean with maintenance level two passes you're already at twice the time. Don't get me wrong, I don't charge double on all first cleans but I would on a minger if it was me that turned up. I'd charge 3x for a one off.

[Frankybadboy]

Well Chris - I'm simply trying to get all parties to shake hands and move on so that we continue with a peaceful helpful section of the forum.


But I haven't got a defined business plan like Marc has and he may well be able to spend his time more wisely.

shut up you silly old fool,


lets she them have a fight and best man wins,get a grip Gold your going all soft in your retirement years 

[Dry Clean]

Well, that escalated quickly ...

 

Couldn't agree more, one minute its just a bit of handbag slapping the next Nathan has posted a video, I'm still in shock. lol.

[Cookie]

Well, that escalated quickly ...

 

Couldn't agree more, one minute its just a bit of handbag slapping the next Nathan has posted a video, I'm still in shock. lol.

Where's Nathan's video? I think I missed it   

[G Griffin]

You will often find that the "money" talkers generally feel inadequate themselves. I have seen them all on here over the years- with the passage of time they usually expose their reality in one way or another and you see that they are just the same as me and thee from a business point of view! I did at one time get wound up by it- as it often seems an attemp to make others feel inadequate but now I actually lean towards pity. You have to be rather unhappy with fundamental aspects of your life to act in this way.

Before anyone Sue's , deforms or liables me, this is a general observation and not aimed at anyone. 

That's a fair summary.
Marc was massaging his own ego and Chris bruised it a little. It's human nature; we like to knock down folk that big themselves up.
Us old school window cleaners- not businessmen- got the mick taken out of us for taking too long on a window; not being too quick.
Let it go, boys.
 
 
 

[Dry Clean]

Well, that escalated quickly ...

 

Couldn't agree more, one minute its just a bit of handbag slapping the next Nathan has posted a video, I'm still in shock. lol.

Where's Nathan's video? I think I missed it   

On your own head be it, second post on page 5,

[John Mart]

You will often find that the "money" talkers generally feel inadequate themselves. I have seen them all on here over the years- with the passage of time they usually expose their reality in one way or another and you see that they are just the same as me and thee from a business point of view! I did at one time get wound up by it- as it often seems an attemp to make others feel inadequate but now I actually lean towards pity. You have to be rather unhappy with fundamental aspects of your life to act in this way.

Before anyone Sue's , deforms or liables me, this is a general observation and not aimed at anyone. 

That's a fair summary.
Marc was massaging his own ego and Chris bruised it a little. It's human nature; we like to knock down folk that big themselves up.
Us old school window cleaners- not businessmen- got the mick taken out of us for taking too long on a window; not being too quick.
Let it go, boys.

I think Marc perfectly demonstrates the feeling of inferiority at being a windowcleaner. He’s quite right in my opinion to charge well on that sort first clean on a minger like that without commitment. The “customer “ though perfectly demonstrated the belief that window cleaners are desperate and grateful for a crumb. A perfect storm. 

[Slacky]

But there’s plenty of dunderhead shiners out there that would succumb to a custards attempts to better the price offered. It’s human nature.

You see it all the time on here - shiners earning the same as GP’s or surgeons but seeking the cheapest rate for 5 litres of Virosol.

[Don Kee]

Never thought I’d say this but I’m off to the ‘off topic’ side of the forum...
There’s not as many nutters over there!!!

(Disclaimer - that’s not a dig at any squirrels or elephants or any animal or people or just anyone specific that may associate themselves with nuts, just incase anyone decides they have grounds for a lawsuit; I think you’re all equally as mental)

[james peters]

But there’s plenty of dunderhead shiners out there that would succumb to a custards attempts to better the price offered. It’s human nature.

You see it all the time on here - shiners earning the same as GP’s or surgeons but seeking the cheapest rate for 5 litres of Virosol.

this is a brilliant post lol.
I don't post much because of this … I am scared too.... I read posts about earnings etc … and I think omg ! these people have really got it sorted .
then they post looking for a cheap this that the other, or are moaning about being owed a fiver over 3 months pmfsl !!!

[Bungle]

So, after half an hour reading this thread I'm none the wiser. Did Marc Stock get the job or not? 

[Slacky]

No, Chris Turner popped up and undercut him. Ensuring the custard got clean frames as well as clean glass.

[John Mart]

No, Chris Turner popped up and undercut him. Ensuring the custard got clean frames as well as clean glass.

And he’s reassuringly slow.

[John Mart]

So, after half an hour reading this thread I'm none the wiser. Did Marc Stock get the job or not?

I wont know for a couple of weeks as 1) i haven't got anything available until mid/late September anyway and 2) they were going away for a couple of weeks.

TBH i know they will be messers; so i hope i dont get it anyway.

Are you only part time?

[John Mart]

No, Chris Turner popped up and undercut him. Ensuring the custard got clean frames as well as clean glass.

And he’s reassuringly slow.

On the subject of this, I've had a few examples of customers not being happy at the speed the work's done.

The one that sticks in my mind was a largish house in Inkpen. The woman phoned for a quote and revealed she's currently paying a guy from Basingstoke £160 and it took him a morning with WFP. I couldn't think of any that took that long in Inkpen and I said it sounds like "he's swinging the lead". Anyway, had a look and it's a 35 minute job max. I quoted £55 inc VAT. On the second clean she's complaining it's too fast. I asked her if there was a problem with the quality and she said no but she doesn't think she should be paying £55 for 1/2 hour's work. She complained again next clean. Still no quality issue. I did the next clean and it did take me 40 minutes but mainly because I struggled with the parking and faffed with the hose. Next clean 35 minutes and this time she complains that her conservatory hasn't been cleaned properly. I explain it's because her hedge needs trimming as we can't access it. She's dumped too with a suggestion she goes back to her "reassuringly slow and expensive" guy.

[Stoots]

But there’s plenty of dunderhead shiners out there that would succumb to a custards attempts to better the price offered. It’s human nature.

You see it all the time on here - shiners earning the same as GP’s or surgeons but seeking the cheapest rate for 5 litres of Virosol.

this is a brilliant post lol.
I don't post much because of this … I am scared too.... I read posts about earnings etc … and I think omg ! these people have really got it sorted .
then they post looking for a cheap this that the other, or are moaning about being owed a fiver over 3 months pmfsl !!!

Whys that funny?

Maximum turnover, minimum costs equals max profit.

So why would you pay more for virosol or anything else than you have to?

Throwing away a fiver here and there all add up.

[Shrek]

Since timing all my jobs , I realised that I am super fast but when you’ve got your pump on 75 you have to go fast otherwise I’d run out of water.

[Shrek]

No, Chris Turner popped up and undercut him. Ensuring the custard got clean frames as well as clean glass.

And he’s reassuringly slow.

On the subject of this, I've had a few examples of customers not being happy at the speed the work's done.

The one that sticks in my mind was a largish house in Inkpen. The woman phoned for a quote and revealed she's currently paying a guy from Basingstoke £160 and it took him a morning with WFP. I couldn't think of any that took that long in Inkpen and I said it sounds like "he's swinging the lead". Anyway, had a look and it's a 35 minute job max. I quoted £55 inc VAT. On the second clean she's complaining it's too fast. I asked her if there was a problem with the quality and she said no but she doesn't think she should be paying £55 for 1/2 hour's work. She complained again next clean. Still no quality issue. I did the next clean and it did take me 40 minutes but mainly because I struggled with the parking and faffed with the hose. Next clean 35 minutes and this time she complains that her conservatory hasn't been cleaned properly. I explain it's because her hedge needs trimming as we can't access it. She's dumped too with a suggestion she goes back to her "reassuringly slow and expensive" guy.

You just gotta explain that your equipment isn’t cheap and you use a lot of filtered water. If she’s moaning every clean then you probably are better off getting rid

[AuRavelling79]

8 weekly - did you really say to a lady customer ... ?

"I explain it's because her hedge needs trimming as we can't access it. "

Shakes head and walks away.

 

[chris turner]

No, Chris Turner popped up and undercut him. Ensuring the custard got clean frames as well as clean glass.

And he’s reassuringly slow.

On the subject of this, I've had a few examples of customers not being happy at the speed the work's done.

The one that sticks in my mind was a largish house in Inkpen. The woman phoned for a quote and revealed she's currently paying a guy from Basingstoke £160 and it took him a morning with WFP. I couldn't think of any that took that long in Inkpen and I said it sounds like "he's swinging the lead". Anyway, had a look and it's a 35 minute job max. I quoted £55 inc VAT. On the second clean she's complaining it's too fast. I asked her if there was a problem with the quality and she said no but she doesn't think she should be paying £55 for 1/2 hour's work. She complained again next clean. Still no quality issue. I did the next clean and it did take me 40 minutes but mainly because I struggled with the parking and faffed with the hose. Next clean 35 minutes and this time she complains that her conservatory hasn't been cleaned properly. I explain it's because her hedge needs trimming as we can't access it. She's dumped too with a suggestion she goes back to her "reassuringly slow and expensive" guy.

Oh dear.

So you are criticising the guy who charges £160 for a mornings work for being "slow"?
What's to say he didn't have another £160 job that afternoon?

2 jobs in a day for £320 or bashing out several to earn the same amount, I know which one id choose.

[Marc Stock]

Id say it's all about managing risk.

In my experience there is no difference between charging £160 for a half day on a large ish house. Or cleaning 4 houses that morning all at £40 each.

Now from a business point of view; a customer that wants a regular clean service from the outset and makes that clear to me right from the start, hell id probbably take a hit on the 1st clean and not charge extra as we all know its better business sense especally if the windows are sort of still ok ish.

But if they are umibg and ahhing; about weather to take you on a regular clean, the property is filthy; you know you are never going to get commitment from them, you have no choice but to charge the equivalent day rate if you were cleaning 4 regulars at 40 quid each.

Now if a customer says your working too quick; tell them straight. Im not your bus boy madam; i am running a business to make a profit. So what that means is not only does the job have to cover operational costs like insurances, fuel, water, and equipment use; it needs to cover my wages aswell, ans then also the businesss needs to be left with a profit after my labour time. So out of the £160 £53 goes towards costs; £53 goes into my pocket for my wages and the rest the business keeps as profit.

If they cant grasp that; they are plonkers tbh.

[chris turner]

Speed is such a subjective matter on these forums.
From 8 weeklys perspective speed is the be all and end all. It's the way he maximises profit. Bash his way through as many jobs as he (or staff) can do in a day.
Yet how is that way better then the guy who can earn the same amount only doing 2 jobs a day, with less driving, less reeling in and cleaning the windows to an immaculate condition?
If someone can get £160 for a £55 job then good for him. He's not "swinging the lead", he spends all morning doing a top job. Even going out of his way to get to those hard to reach windows, you know, the ones behind overgrown hedges.
He is providing a premium service for a premium price.

The truth is, we only go as fast as we need to.
8 weekly has big overheads, staff to pay etc, and feels the way to meet these overheads is to work as fast as possible.
You have the "premium" price guys that prefer the 1 or 2 jobs a day at an extremely high quality.
Then you have guys like me, who know what they are happy to earn and set themselves a reasonable, achievable worksheet each day that can be finished to a good standard whilst providing a better then average income.
Admittedly I have settled comfortably in this category due to the fact my other half brings in just as much as I do. I have no need or desire to grow, expand or work faster.
If things were different however,  I would definitely choose the "slow" but high quality, premium price way.

[John Mart]

No, Chris Turner popped up and undercut him. Ensuring the custard got clean frames as well as clean glass.

And he’s reassuringly slow.

On the subject of this, I've had a few examples of customers not being happy at the speed the work's done.

The one that sticks in my mind was a largish house in Inkpen. The woman phoned for a quote and revealed she's currently paying a guy from Basingstoke £160 and it took him a morning with WFP. I couldn't think of any that took that long in Inkpen and I said it sounds like "he's swinging the lead". Anyway, had a look and it's a 35 minute job max. I quoted £55 inc VAT. On the second clean she's complaining it's too fast. I asked her if there was a problem with the quality and she said no but she doesn't think she should be paying £55 for 1/2 hour's work. She complained again next clean. Still no quality issue. I did the next clean and it did take me 40 minutes but mainly because I struggled with the parking and faffed with the hose. Next clean 35 minutes and this time she complains that her conservatory hasn't been cleaned properly. I explain it's because her hedge needs trimming as we can't access it. She's dumped too with a suggestion she goes back to her "reassuringly slow and expensive" guy.

Oh dear.

So you are criticising the guy who charges £160 for a mornings work for being "slow"?
What's to say he didn't have another £160 job that afternoon?

2 jobs in a day for £320 or bashing out several to earn the same amount, I know which one id choose.

If you're happy to take 3 hours to do a job that takes 1/2 hour and charge for the 3 hours, that's fine. Our business model is different though. 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Just as a point of interest.  I, and now my happy family of franchisees, are probably the slowest window cleaners in the UK, BUT, I have one of the fastest growing, compact, domestic window cleaning businesses in the UK. (I did say 'one of', I'm not trying to out trump anyone.)
Interesting.

[John Mart]

Speed is such a subjective matter on these forums.
From 8 weeklys perspective speed is the be all and end all. It's the way he maximises profit. Bash his way through as many jobs as he (or staff) can do in a day.
Yet how is that way better then the guy who can earn the same amount only doing 2 jobs a day, with less driving, less reeling in and cleaning the windows to an immaculate condition?
If someone can get £160 for a £55 job then good for him. He's not "swinging the lead", he spends all morning doing a top job. Even going out of his way to get to those hard to reach windows, you know, the ones behind overgrown hedges.
He is providing a premium service for a premium price.

The truth is, we only go as fast as we need to.
8 weekly has big overheads, staff to pay etc, and feels the way to meet these overheads is to work as fast as possible.
You have the "premium" price guys that prefer the 1 or 2 jobs a day at an extremely high quality.
Then you have guys like me, who know what they are happy to earn and set themselves a reasonable, achievable worksheet each day that can be finished to a good standard whilst providing a better then average income.
Admittedly I have settled comfortably in this category due to the fact my other half brings in just as much as I do. I have no need or desire to grow, expand or work faster.
If things were different however,  I would definitely choose the "slow" but high quality, premium price way.

He didn't. There were three upper level conservatory windows he bladed. The ledge was above eye level, but when I looked there were 1/2 inch soap marks where he hadn't wiped. We're all different but I couldn't be so dishonest to do what he did.

[Lee Pryor]

Just as a point of interest.  I, and now my happy family of franchisees, are probably the slowest window cleaners in the UK, BUT, I have one of the fastest growing, compact, domestic window cleaning businesses in the UK. (I did say 'one of', I'm not trying to out trump anyone.)
Interesting.

How do you measure your speed of growth?

For me its a combination of customer numbers and yearly turnover growth.

How many customers have you added this year so far? What is your turnover growth this year so far.

[chris turner]

Just as a point of interest.  I, and now my happy family of franchisees, are probably the slowest window cleaners in the UK, BUT, I have one of the fastest growing, compact, domestic window cleaning businesses in the UK. (I did say 'one of', I'm not trying to out trump anyone.)
Interesting.

You, I like sir...

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Hi Lee, I'm not looking to divulge my information on here and not trying to out trump you. We run 2 very different operations and are building them in very different ways.
 

[Lee Pryor]

Hi Lee, I'm not looking to divulge my information on here and not trying to out trump you. We run 2 very different operations and are building them in very different ways.

I just knew my post would be taken wrong.

I just want to know how you can state you have one of the fastest growing compaines in the uk thats all. How do you measure that? I wasnt saying anything about you trumping anyone.

Why would it be a problem to say how many new customers you have added this year? I havnt asked you to post a copy of your tax return.

[Dry Clean]

Speed is such a subjective matter on these forums.
From 8 weeklys perspective speed is the be all and end all. It's the way he maximises profit. Bash his way through as many jobs as he (or staff) can do in a day.
Yet how is that way better then the guy who can earn the same amount only doing 2 jobs a day, with less driving, less reeling in and cleaning the windows to an immaculate condition?
If someone can get £160 for a £55 job then good for him. He's not "swinging the lead", he spends all morning doing a top job. Even going out of his way to get to those hard to reach windows, you know, the ones behind overgrown hedges.
He is providing a premium service for a premium price.

The truth is, we only go as fast as we need to.
8 weekly has big overheads, staff to pay etc, and feels the way to meet these overheads is to work as fast as possible.
You have the "premium" price guys that prefer the 1 or 2 jobs a day at an extremely high quality.
Then you have guys like me, who know what they are happy to earn and set themselves a reasonable, achievable worksheet each day that can be finished to a good standard whilst providing a better then average income.
Admittedly I have settled comfortably in this category due to the fact my other half brings in just as much as I do. I have no need or desire to grow, expand or work faster.
If things were different however,  I would definitely choose the "slow" but high quality, premium price way.

I'm on this forum long enough to remember how 8 weekly was able to charge £20 for properties that others where charging £5 for on the basis that quality over price won work, the splash and dash only came into it when he had to justify turning a £20 property/s into an £80k a year turnover, its why I take both earnings and speed on here with a pinch of salt.

[chris turner]

Hi Lee, I'm not looking to divulge my information on here and not trying to out trump you. We run 2 very different operations and are building them in very different ways.

I just knew my post would be taken wrong.

I just want to know how you can state you have one of the fastest growing compaines in the uk thats all. How do you measure that? I wasnt saying anything about you trumping anyone.

Why would it be a problem to say how many new customers you have added this year? I havnt asked you to post a copy of your tax return.

Mod note: Highly offensive post removed; a repeat or similar will result in a ban.

[G Griffin]

Hi Lee, I'm not looking to divulge my information on here and not trying to out trump you. We run 2 very different operations and are building them in very different ways.

I just knew my post would be taken wrong.

I just want to know how you can state you have one of the fastest growing compaines in the uk thats all. How do you measure that? I wasnt saying anything about you trumping anyone.

Why would it be a problem to say how many new customers you have added this year? I havnt asked you to post a copy of your tax return.

Mod note: Highly offensive post removed; a repeat or similar will result in a ban.

Oi!
I'm eating here  . 

[Lee Pryor]

Not at all Chris.

Let me be clear there is not a single person on this forum that makes me feel threatend in any way.

I am simply interseted in his methods of measurement that allow such a strong statement. Then I am interested to learn what he does to generate that.  I want to learn from like minded people thats all.

You on the other hand are one of the nasty haters who yet again has just personally insulted someone you know nothing about and have never met. I have never had to publicly apologise to anyone on here as you did yesterday. Its easy to be so rude to people from behind your keyboard isnt it Chris.

You see from my point of view there are not many people on here trying to do what myself john, and david are doing. Its nice for me to get an idea of what someone else whos in that position thinks is fast growth.

If I were you Chris I would keep the personal and offensive insults to yourself. Either that or at least have the balls to come down and say it to my face. If you cant do that then you shouldnt do it on here.

[chris turner]

Not at all Chris.

Let me be clear there is not a single person on this forum that makes me feel threatend in any way.

I am simply interseted in his methods of measurement that allow such a strong statement. Then I am interested to learn what he does to generate that.  I want to learn from like minded people thats all.

You on the other hand are one of the nasty haters who yet again has just personally insulted someone you know nothing about and have never met. I have never had to publicly apologise to anyone on here as you did yesterday. Its easy to be so rude to people from behind your keyboard isnt it Chris.

You see from my point of view there are not many people on here trying to do what myself john, and david are doing. Its nice for me to get an idea of what someone else whos in that position thinks is fast growth.

If I were you Chris I would keep the personal and offensive insults to yourself. Either that or at least have the balls to come down and say it to my face. If you cant do that then you shouldnt do it on here.

Get a grip Lee.

The tone of your post towards David was aggressive in nature. You only want to know his figures just to know if you are bettering them.
He is humbly keeping them to himself and I totally respect that. He doesn't need to prove himself to the world like you do.

[chris turner]

I'm not going to jump down this rabbit hole with you again Lee, it never ends well for anyone.
However I will still throw the odd comment your way if I disagree with the nature of your posts. If you can't respond to that without offering me to come down your way and resort to violence, well clearly your not as bigger man as you make out.

[Marc Stock]

Who said anything about Violence?

 

Lee is simply saying have some balls. I have my business details on here for transparency. You hide behind a profile and make accusations on a public forum of other peoples work; which by the way are still possibly libel ( yeah got the spelling right).

I accepted your apology and halted legal action; i very nearly went through with it though.

Please dont start again on someone else Chris. Yes i admit i did look like a bit of a twat getting all legal and stuff, but if your going to pick a new fight with someone else then that apology you made to me yesterday you might as well not bothered.

[Lee Pryor]

Firstly my post to david was genuine and in no way at all like you have judged it to be. I find it interesting and challenging to bounce off like minded people who have grown a sizeable business in the industry I am part of.

Second Chris I said nothing about violence. Im pointing out its one thing to hide behind your keyboard and another to be so rude to a persons face. I have no problem with people disagreeing with something I say, although I wasnt talking to you so why is it any of your business what I say to David or why. Im sure he can stick up for himself if he needs to. Disagree all you want Chris. Personal insults and being generally nasty to someone is quite different. My point was if you wouldnt do it to a persons face then nor should you on here.

[chris turner]

Who said anything about Violence?

 

Lee is simply saying have some balls. I have my business details on here for transparency. You hide behind a profile and make accusations on a public forum of other peoples work; which by the way are still possibly libel ( yeah got the spelling right).

I accepted your apology and halted legal action; i very nearly went through with it though.

Please dont start again on someone else Chris. Yes i admit i did look like a bit of a twat getting all legal and stuff, but if your going to pick a new fight with someone else then that apology you made to me yesterday you might as well not bothered.

My original comment was merely a humerous poke of fun aimed at Lee.
What did I say to you about growing a thicker skin?

Lee can't come on here and expect the red carpet rolled out whilst people worship the ground he walks on every time.
There will be little digs here and there, people will make fun, people will be abusive. If he can't take the bad with the good then perhaps he shouldn't be on here at all.
Most of us on here are "normal" hardworking folk that probably grew up with banter and mates taking the pee out of each other. Deal with it.


And Marc,, I'm glad we cleared things up and I truly meant my apology, I stepped to far for even me.
However, in regards to your whole legal threats, please be clear I was not worried in the slightest. You had absolutely no grounds whatsoever. As I said I made absolutely no claims or said anything damaging towards your business. I did not speak your business name once, I was very careful with that.
Therefore your claim could have only been made against my statements against you as an individual. Seeing as there was no racial, political or violently oriented remarks towards you, I was not breaking the law. Unless of course you have personal infringement rights, to which I highly doubt.

[chris turner]

Firstly my post to david was genuine and in no way at all like you have judged it to be. I find it interesting and challenging to bounce off like minded people who have grown a sizeable business in the industry I am part of.

Second Chris I said nothing about violence. Im pointing out its one thing to hide behind your keyboard and another to be so rude to a persons face. I have no problem with people disagreeing with something I say, although I wasnt talking to you so why is it any of your business what I say to David or why. Im sure he can stick up for himself if he needs to. Disagree all you want Chris. Personal insults and being generally nasty to someone is quite different. My point was if you wouldnt do it to a persons face then nor should you on here.

If we insulted one another at face point, then it probably would have ended in violence. Not that I'm totally against that idea, it just wouldn't have solved much would it now.

[John Mart]

Speed is such a subjective matter on these forums.
From 8 weeklys perspective speed is the be all and end all. It's the way he maximises profit. Bash his way through as many jobs as he (or staff) can do in a day.
Yet how is that way better then the guy who can earn the same amount only doing 2 jobs a day, with less driving, less reeling in and cleaning the windows to an immaculate condition?
If someone can get £160 for a £55 job then good for him. He's not "swinging the lead", he spends all morning doing a top job. Even going out of his way to get to those hard to reach windows, you know, the ones behind overgrown hedges.
He is providing a premium service for a premium price.

The truth is, we only go as fast as we need to.
8 weekly has big overheads, staff to pay etc, and feels the way to meet these overheads is to work as fast as possible.
You have the "premium" price guys that prefer the 1 or 2 jobs a day at an extremely high quality.
Then you have guys like me, who know what they are happy to earn and set themselves a reasonable, achievable worksheet each day that can be finished to a good standard whilst providing a better then average income.
Admittedly I have settled comfortably in this category due to the fact my other half brings in just as much as I do. I have no need or desire to grow, expand or work faster.
If things were different however,  I would definitely choose the "slow" but high quality, premium price way.

I'm on this forum long enough to remember how 8 weekly was able to charge £20 for properties that others where charging £5 for on the basis that quality over price won work, the splash and dash only came into it when he had to justify turning a £20 property/s into an £80k a year turnover, its why I take both earnings and speed on here with a pinch of salt.

You have a better memory than me then. I do recall once saying about a local guy that said to me about a largish Victorian semi "who's gonna pay more than a fiver for that?". Is that what you're dodgy memory is referring to?

[Lee Pryor]

Your just not getting it are you Chris.

Probably best you don't talk to me or comment on my posts especially if they are nothing to do with you. Problem solved then isn't it.

[chris turner]

Ok Chris.

If you want to be known as the ball breaker  and the one that insults people, then well i suppose thats your choice.

I'm not all insulting, I do show respect where it's due and I am generally a very nice guy.
That dreamboat of a man david kent has nothing but my admiration 😍
There's how to run a quality business without all the showing off.

[John Mart]

Ok Chris.

If you want to be known as the ball breaker  and the one that insults people, then well i suppose thats your choice.

I'm not all insulting, I do show respect where it's due and I am generally a very nice guy.
That dreamboat of a man david kent has nothing but my admiration 😍
There's how to run a quality business without all the showing off.

His is a franchise though and really very different. For example he could have 10 vans covering what a regular business would cover with three.

[Lee Pryor]

Not being funny Chris but I think I have earned the right to show off if I want to. Besides, me showing off as you put it inspires others here to push forward. Why shouldn't I be proud of my achievements. I think you forget I started with a bucket and ladder on the roof rack of a falling apart civic. I worked my arse off re invested everything I made and had the balls to do the things most here wouldn't even think of never mind attempt. I wasn't lucky, knowone gave me anything or did anything to help me. You don't have the first clue about what it takes to get to this level and if you did you would problem be just as proud as I am. All that rubbish you spout about red carpets ect just makes you look jealous and resentful. I don't expect that at all. It's a shame that in this country so many people like you see success as a negative thing. Very different attitude in the states where people push each other up rather than bringing someone down.

[Dry Clean]

Speed is such a subjective matter on these forums.
From 8 weeklys perspective speed is the be all and end all. It's the way he maximises profit. Bash his way through as many jobs as he (or staff) can do in a day.
Yet how is that way better then the guy who can earn the same amount only doing 2 jobs a day, with less driving, less reeling in and cleaning the windows to an immaculate condition?
If someone can get £160 for a £55 job then good for him. He's not "swinging the lead", he spends all morning doing a top job. Even going out of his way to get to those hard to reach windows, you know, the ones behind overgrown hedges.
He is providing a premium service for a premium price.

The truth is, we only go as fast as we need to.
8 weekly has big overheads, staff to pay etc, and feels the way to meet these overheads is to work as fast as possible.
You have the "premium" price guys that prefer the 1 or 2 jobs a day at an extremely high quality.
Then you have guys like me, who know what they are happy to earn and set themselves a reasonable, achievable worksheet each day that can be finished to a good standard whilst providing a better then average income.
Admittedly I have settled comfortably in this category due to the fact my other half brings in just as much as I do. I have no need or desire to grow, expand or work faster.
If things were different however,  I would definitely choose the "slow" but high quality, premium price way.

I'm on this forum long enough to remember how 8 weekly was able to charge £20 for properties that others where charging £5 for on the basis that quality over price won work, the splash and dash only came into it when he had to justify turning a £20 property/s into an £80k a year turnover, its why I take both earnings and speed on here with a pinch of salt.

You have a better memory than me then. I do recall once saying about a local guy that said to me about a largish Victorian semi "who's gonna pay more than a fiver for that?". Is that what you're dodgy memory is referring to?

It was a local shiner who had been cleaning in the property next door for a fiver, you have told the story a few times and your price does vary from £15 to £20 so maybe it is your memory. lol.

[Dry Clean]

Not being funny Chris but I think I have earned the right to show off if I want to. Besides, me showing off as you put it inspires others here to push forward. Why shouldn't I be proud of my achievements. I think you forget I started with a bucket and ladder on the roof rack of a falling apart civic. I worked my arse off re invested everything I made and had the balls to do the things most here wouldn't even think of never mind attempt. I wasn't lucky, knowone gave me anything or did anything to help me. You don't have the first clue about what it takes to get to this level and if you did you would problem be just as proud as I am. All that rubbish you spout about red carpets ect just makes you look jealous and resentful. I don't expect that at all. It's a shame that in this country so many people like you see success as a negative thing. Very different attitude in the states where people push each other up rather than bringing someone down.

[AuRavelling79]

Ok im now permanently locking this.

Too much bickering.

 

I've just had a look at today's posts in this thread and I agree Marc.

However Chris Turner has posted a highly offensive post towards Lee which I deem to be beyond the forum rules. I have gone back and deleted it.

If there is a repeat or similar then a ban will be put in place.

This thread can remain locked - not because I have chosen to do it but because an original poster can choose to do it and it his or her prerogative to lock and unlock it.

[AuRavelling79]

I've now locked this thread.