[dai]

Just starting my third week With WFP. I'm still losing money, just can't do the job as quick as with ladders. Went up the ladder today to inspect my work again, very few small spots, what I expected really on first cleans. When did you veteran WFP users start to see big time saving improvements when you started? Will I get faster?
At the moment I seem to be about 15% down on my take. DAI

[Moderator David@stives]

stop checking for spots .And dont clean the top frames everytime.
Also if i think i can do a particular house faster on ladder i will do that.
hope that helps ,but i am new like you . i think spots come with the terratory.
how many that is the question

dave

[kingfisher]

If this is only your third week then you wont have done many second cleans yet.

First cleans take much longer I always allow at least half as long again somtimes twice.

When you get round to the second cleans you will do them much quicker.

Not to sure that I agree with David about the tops of the frames I always make sure that the tops are clean.

[rosskesava]

Hi Dai

We've also not long started using WFP. Like you - we're in our third week.

At the moment I'm not impressed at all but I (try to) have faith that what those say on this forum is true.

We are still really struggling with the mechanics of just how best to get in and out of the van and all those niggly problems.

Friday, on one job, I did the whole downstairs of a house with trad methods before my mate had even started the upstairs because the hose reel got all knotted and he coped the nark.

He said to dump the f***ing thing and I ended up doing the uppers with the WFP and got stressed out because the hose kept getting stuck on rocks in the persons garden. Then the brush separated from the pole because the thread bit snapped.

Then ... off came the ladders. Job done quickly and easily.

Having said that, we're now on plan B and I guess it's a learning thing.

As for the results and spots - dunno. Havn't looked at any where we've done with WFP except one 2 story place right next to the cliffs edge near here. The dreaded bird poo was still there but only an outline of it's former self.

I don't know how anyone on this forum could have got it right from day one.

Cheers

[Moderator David@stives]

lol    best laugh ive had in ages .

hum  betty   

[rosskesava]

It's funny now but at the time...........

It's one of those things that you look back on in the future and say 'do you remember when...'

Just like when I first started window cleaning and couldn't work what I was doing wrong. I had the ladder upside down. My mate p**sed himself laughing as it was so obvious.

Seriously, I think our WFP set up once we've ironed out all the problems is a winner.

[Moderator David@stives]

i can relate to it all .i keep having problems with connecters ,either stopping the flow or leaking and previously popping off .i have had the brush head keep swivelling the pole sections swivelling .car p155ed wet through. The best one was when i pulled the connecter of the di bottle and the water shot at my face at 100mph and soaked me .that was a bit of a shock and i looked around to see if anyone noticed.

 

[rosskesava]

Our first WFP day.

The whole bottom at the back of the inside of our hearse was under 6 inches of water.

The pump had been wired up to the bodged hi fi system in error and when the switch was flicked, it pumped out all the water.

Then we went and got breakfast before beginning the days work.

Cheers

[AuRavelling79]

Dai, It took me three months to distinguish where to use the pole and where to stay trad. - and I've only been using it since February. I reckon I'll (one man band) turn over an extra £6000 this year (April to April) - in part due to not being so knackered at the end of the day and in part to being quicker.

Ross - Roy Harding (or was it Ian Giles?) - one of these two wise men anyway - said to start from the farthest point of the property and work towards the trolley (or hose reel) to avoid hoses catching on things. That works for me.

Another guy reminded me, and I quote " the trouble is that wfp suppliers sometimes give the impression that wfp is a magic wand - it ain't - you've got to get the technique right and when you do it'll fall into place."

He's right and it has.

[rosskesava]

Cheers Malc

Simple advise but good advice.

Why havn't I been using this forum to ask more questions?

[pjulk]

When i got mine back i think in march the first month i though i have made a big mistake.
I had spots, runs the hose's where catching on everything.
When i got round to the second clean i started to notice the windows were comming up a lot better than with the 1st clean and i was slightly quicker.
The third month i was flying and really no more problems.
Now even on first cleans i can get it right first time, Its all practice just like when you started traditional.
I still use ladders for the odd job but mostly my round i use WFP for 95% of it.
The customers are happy with the results i can get some jobs done quite a bit quicker but a few still take me longer than with traditional.
Im no better off money wise though but im a lot happier.

Paul

[Simon Carter]

My business is all domestic. I bought a van, with a tank & all the gubbins, hose reals etc. It looked the business. What a waste of money!!. I've now sold the van, got myself a car again ( bigger one it's true ) & a back pack & a bunch of Jerry cans. Much better. No parking worries, no hoses wrapped round garden gnomes. NO DIY  or rip off 50 litre trolleys.
My advice is keep it simple & don't be oversold.

[dai]

Had a much better day today, In fact the highest earning day since the Mrs and me have worked together. Managed to tread on that useless £15 tap I bought and it snapped like a carrot. Does anybody know where I can buy a decent tap that will fit 8mm bore tubing? preferably brass. If I can get the variflow adjusted so that it turns off the pump before the seals start leaking I think I will have cracked it. I can stop the water flow but the pump starts up as soon as it forces a leak. I am wasting good time running back to the trolley to turn the pump off.
The system itself is working perfectly, it is really quick to set up and that 8mm bore tricoflex hose is excellent, got 30 metres on my hose reel and up the pole.
Why is it that the windows that have not been done for months[over conservatories] sheet perfectly and the windows next to them don't? Do you think that the dirt acts as an abrasive and actually helps the cleaning process? Bit like scouring powder.
Ah well this old dog is slowly learning new tricks.
 Please help if you can locate a tap, thanks for all the good advice. Dai
ps Do you know I had never seen a WFP set up till I came on this forum, now I'v built one.

[Ian_Giles]

Simon, not to sure which 50l trolleys you consider a rip off, but mine is anything but that.
Mine is the aquatech one, two 25l containers, very efficient.

I know of one guy who has a full van mount system, most of the time he and his wife use their Omnitrolleys on domestic work.
They open the van, lift out the trolleys (never full to the brim, they top them up to whatever level they need from the main tank) and off they go.
Very quick, very efficient.
There are other times when they work directly from their van (a Citroen Relay). All depends on circumstances.

The learning curve is steep, but once you have cracked it, and adapted it to fit in with your round it is just so efficient.

Spotting will occur now and then, and sometimes there are windows that just won't be able to be cleaned well with WFP, but you learn those as you go around your round.

Mostly, for UPVC, Georgian, leaded and so on, WFP is king.
For windows with oxidized frames its a different matter

Be adaptable, keep learning!


Regards

Ian

[gaza]

ross: water music I presume.filling tank up one night left mrs to switch the tap off,she forgot when I got back saw water running out of the van ,switch tap off ,opened van door and gallons filled my shoes and soaked my trouses.so your not on your own pal

gaza

[AuRavelling79]

Re: Ross's bodged up stereo/waterpump connection:-

ross: water music I presume
gaza

Brilliant Gaza! LOL

[Moderator David@stives]

Mostly, for UPVC, Georgian, leaded and so on, WFP is king.
For windows with oxidized frames its a different matter

on oxidised frames or all troublesome windows stay away fom the top .thats what the bwca reccomends then you should have no trouble really

dave

[jsm]

I agree with keep it simple on domestic , you don't need hose reels and big pumps .

After my battery died on my 30ltr sack barrow diy thing , Dan @ DSB lent me his Surflow back pack , I put it on the sack barrow and away - top bit of kit , just fill it up at every house , its got a big cap on it so you can fill it up super fast - qiicker than changing the barrel over before .
plus its got a 4 speed pump inside - cool

[Sir Squeaky]

....it is just so efficient.

Ian

  Efficient! That takes me back Ian! (sorry guys,private joke)

[sair]

it will get better and quicker after many years wfp i have doubled my five day round and generally only do 2 days should be another half day , but the wfp buisness is so busy since january i need three days a week there , running nout of time now , it will get quiker about three onths and you will be more confident,

tony

[matt]

i would say i am 30 % faster with WFP

BUT i dont have the trouble of hoses trailing everywhere or connection and stop taps etc

just my cart connected to 10 m's of pipe, sure i have to move my cart twice at the front and then around the back then move it again, BUT no the idea of no hoses and them dragging through poo makes me happy

you get faster as you realise you dont need to flood the glass like you do on your first clean

[dai]

I appeciate what your saying Matt, My problen is that I do loads of small starter homes. Before very long the side entry's start to get cluttered, wheelie bins barby's
You name it. There is no way I could get my trolley to the back of some of them, that's when I need the 30 metres of Tricoflex on the hose reel. There is an adjustment you can make to the veriflow so that it shuts off at a lower pressure. I read on one post that a guy left the veriflow switched on all the time he was wotking. stop the flow and it stops the pump. I havn't got round to opening the thing up yet to make the adjustment. I have solved the tap problem by tying a ring on the hose 3/4 inch diametre. when I want to stop the flow I just bend the hose and slip the ring over it. The pump still cuts in though and forces the connections to leak. I have dissconected the wires to the pressure sensor as you have to with the veriflow, when I get this adjustment done to it, I should be ok. I hate having to run back to the trolley to turn the thing off. DAI

[Moderator David@stives]

Dai it is a 2 min job ,just undo the 4 screws on the front with a posi and turn the blue tiny switch down .i had the same prob as you .now it is fine ,i put mine on  `c  ` and know it cuts out after about 10-20 secs
dave

[gaza]

DAI:I SHOULD have done a third of my round wfp 2/3 trad,then next month do another 1/3. That way you dont lose a month but spread it out but by the time the second and third month comes around you will find your quicker.swings and roundabouts.

 gaza

[dai]

Thanks Dave made the adjusment this morning [rained off here too] I tried it this afternoon and it seems fine now. Tied another ring to the bottom of the pole. It is so easy now. Do the fronts bend the pipe and push through the ring, pump stops. Round the back, pull the hose out of the ring, pump starts. good luck with the op mate, Don't forget the liquid parrafine. A surgeon reccomended it to a mate of mine and it made things so much easier, if you know what I mean. Like blading a just cleaned window. DAI

[rosskesava]

Hi Dai

We've dumped our wfp for the time being or rather put it on hold. It's a real learning curve isn't it with wfp.

Getting quicker? We started off slow and got slower.

The pump in the hearse isn't upto the job. It was a real cheapoo from ebay.

Also, the little tap thing we bought to adjust the flow to the brush is more than useless. I think we ended up with more water elsewhere than on the windows.

Cheap is ok in the right places.

Plus we have to gut the inside of the hearse and organise it all. It's a nightmare getting all the stuff out and then putting it back that for a lot of jobs this week, which we intended to use WFP on for the uppers, we used ladders simply because it was less hassle.

The problem is that we have to earn money. Extra time spent learning and sorting out wfp's while working is unproductive in the short term, and by the time I get home I can't be bothered to sort it out because I'm knackered. Then at the weekend, my missus expects (and rightly so) that I spend time with her.

I just love and thoroughly enjoy going shopping. 

Cheers

[Moderator David@stives]

Dai

here is an understanding of the variestream 2

Quote from williamsons


"When the Varistream is fitted, it completely takes over from the pump pressure switch for shutting off the pump when the system is deadheaded. However, it itself is not actually a pressure switch.
 
It therefore needs to find out itself when the pressure has been reduced and the pump should start up again.
 
When it has turned the pump off, the circuitry in the Varistream will momentarily put power to the pump every few seconds to determine whether the system has changed and the pump should start up again. The time delay between these "pulses" will gradually increase up to a maximum set delay.
 
Please call us on 0845-226-3638 if you wish to discuss anything further."

[Simon Carter]

Yep .... Sureflow Back Pack. Cheapest available to my knowledge. Got mine for £135 for buying 12.  I've put them on shopping trollies. I can lift it full with one hand, carry it through houses, up steps etc. Can't do that with a 50 litre trolley. Getting one of those out of the van on your own is a receipy for a slipped disc sooner or later. I have two Omnitrolleys gathering dust. Anyone interested?. With a back pack, parking is never an issue, plus any reasonably sized car will do. I've got window cleaners making a ton by 1am using 150 litres only. Another advantage of a back pack is being able to turn it off between windows thereby conserving water. This is the future for residential window cleaning. It's as simple as a squeegee & a ladder & not much more expensive.

[Sarah Sarill]

Ians post was spot on. (as usual !)

I have a full van mounted system with 1000ltr tank which is great for commercial work.

I also invested in an omnitrolley and do all residential with this (tops and bottoms).  I find it easier and quicker cos you just lift it out of the van, top it up, close the door and off you go.  There's no hoses to trail, dont need to move the van too often and no possibility of anyone triping over the hose trailing over public walkways etc.

In my humble oinion the omnitrolley (or DIY version) is the buss.  i am quicker so much so I dont need a second guy working with me anymore so theres a saving there too. 

All this since July and no complaints from me or my customers. !!

[dai]

I lost my first WFP client today. I did the job on wednesday, the guy said it wasn't up to my usual standard. I promised to go back yesterday but was rained off. Went there this morning, no one in, got on my ladder and checked the job up close. The insides are minging, the outsides were fine, just some faint spotting on the top of the panes. I saw the guys wife tonight and she said they were terrible but yesterdays rain had washed them clean.
I may be overdoing it a bit on the water conservation, they being first WFP cleans
I should be having a tow bar fitted tomorrow so will be able to carry 10 containers on the trailor, more than enough for tops only.
I'm struggling a bit with some windows over conservatories. This is due to lack of space between the conservatory and the boundary walls, I even did one window from the nextdoor garden.
Why do minging windows over conservatory roofs come clean so easy?  Perfect sheeting every time. I wish the other windows sheeted the same. Dai

[AuRavelling79]

I saw the guys wife tonight and she said they were terrible but yesterdays rain had washed them clean.

Summat fishy here Dai! That doesn't sound plausible to me...... I wonder if they just don't like the change to wfp and are cooking up excuses?

[Thecleanerservice]

I don't know

[martindrz400]

if you are not quick now try car valeting

[Moderator David@stives]

martin
 
not meaning to hound you what has it got to do with car valeting

i know you are new but if you want to be understood you should elaborate more. 

or just tell me to sod off and mind my own

 

[martindrz400]

car cleaning seems to be abetter job if hes struggling with windows

[Sir Squeaky]

That's a mis-informed comment mate.

I used to be a top valeter and it's a d**n site more complicated than window cleaning.

I'm happy with my work, but there's lots of w/c's about who do a fine job.

Not many will present a car like me. It's a big job.

[Moderator David@stives]

that is why i struggled to understand that reply earlier

[dai]

Car valeting? HA HA HA, Me? That's really funny ,you should see the state of the inside of the van.
What I am going through is the learning curve, Managed 28 houses on two consecutive days last week though. So I am allready getting faster with the pole.
I guess what I needed like many other newby WFP users was reasurrance.
I'M sure that confidence in what is a totally new cleaning method for me, will only come with time. I really appreciate the encouragement I have recieved from others on this forum. It's nice to know your not on your own. Most of the other WFP converts have gone through the daubt barrier. It's a bit easier for us newbys, we have their experience to draw on.
Car valteting, Ha Ha Ha. Dai

[Moderator David@stives]

Dai you can come and clean my car if you want ,
i like to help out where i can .
dave