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Dazzler3370

  • Posts: 233
Extreme or Phantom...??
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:37:21 pm »
Now that the Phantom has been out for a while and for those of you who have or use both. Any recommendations as i currently use the Extreme but will need to change in the new year.

Cheers

Dazzler
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Dazzler

mufcglen

  • Posts: 1507
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 10:42:45 pm »
Its only been out a month or two max pal!
Wait until its been out 12 months and we start seeing real wear reviews, if your happy with gardiner stick with them they’re cheaper too and you get a brush and hose included too😉
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Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 11:54:28 pm »
I’ve already heard of bits of rubber falling off them. Think it’s the clamps?

Gardiner extreme for me. Tried and tested.
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Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

SB Cleaning

  • Posts: 4232
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 01:53:28 pm »
Can't beat Gardiners :)
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AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23689
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 08:03:41 pm »
What are the weights in comparison for the same length?
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JackieW

  • Posts: 865
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 08:54:08 pm »
Gardiner SLX 22
Extended length = 6.5m (just over 21ft)
Closed length =       1.49m (nearly 5ft)
Weight =                     1270g

Phantom 22
Extended length = ?
Closed length = ?
Weight = ?

Would be helpful with a bit more info I think.

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Stephen Fox

  • Posts: 471
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 07:45:58 am »
Quote from: Jonny 87 on October 05, 2018, 11:54:28 pm
I’ve already heard of bits of rubber falling off them. Think it’s the clamps?

Gardiner extreme for me. Tried and tested.

Jonny, I think you are referring to the removable base caps on the poles...

As for wear...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAdexCc804k
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Soupy

  • Posts: 19542
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 08:24:07 am »
Quote from: Stephen Fox on October 10, 2018, 07:45:58 am
Quote from: Jonny 87 on October 05, 2018, 11:54:28 pm
I’ve already heard of bits of rubber falling off them. Think it’s the clamps?

Gardiner extreme for me. Tried and tested.

Jonny, I think you are referring to the removable base caps on the poles...

As for wear...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAdexCc804k



 :o
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Paul Golding

  • Posts: 246
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 12:49:42 pm »
Quote from: Stephen Fox on October 10, 2018, 07:45:58 am
Quote from: Jonny 87 on October 05, 2018, 11:54:28 pm
I’ve already heard of bits of rubber falling off them. Think it’s the clamps?

Gardiner extreme for me. Tried and tested.

Jonny, I think you are referring to the removable base caps on the poles...

As for wear...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAdexCc804k

out of interest . . he tightened up the clamp so it would work on the worn part but then never slid the pole back down or never tried it back on the unworn part after he did that . . surely that would make it stiffer to slide the unworn part up and down (Same as on gardiners) . . hence no better
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Stephen Fox

  • Posts: 471
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 08:29:51 pm »
Points noted.

The video is mainly to show how well the clamps grip no matter how badly worn the pole section may become. A pole in normal day to day use would be extremely unlikely, even after years and years of abuse, to ever wear in one spot to this degree.

The Phantom range was designed to not wear from the start, this is a first in the water fed pole industry and is one of the main USP's of the Phantom. Having a softer material in the clamping mechanism greatly helps to minimise wear and tear and keep the pole sections as new as possible. With the added backup of incredible clamping power to stop section spin no matter how worn.
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Den68

  • Posts: 287
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2018, 09:38:22 pm »
Quote from: JackieW on October 07, 2018, 08:54:08 pm
Gardiner SLX 22
Extended length = 6.5m (just over 21ft)
Closed length =       1.49m (nearly 5ft)
Weight =                     1270g

Phantom 22
Extended length = ?


Closed length
Weight = ?

Would be helpful with a bit more info I think.

Agree this info should be available, and find it strange that  WCW  doesn’t provide that.
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dazmond

  • Posts: 23599
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2018, 10:18:48 pm »
its ridiculous......extended length/closed length and weight should be standard for ANY pole manufacturer to display for us all to view..... ::)roll
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Stoots

  • Posts: 6063
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 08:31:26 am »
I'm sure the slx has deteriorated in quality last couple of years.

My slx 18 is only 6 months old and showing visible wear where the clamps are most used. My last one lasted 3 years.

I think I will try a phantom next even though they are slightly pricier than the equivalent Gardiner's .
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dazmond

  • Posts: 23599
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 08:52:59 am »
Quote from: Gomo on October 11, 2018, 08:31:26 am
I'm sure the slx has deteriorated in quality last couple of years.

My slx 18 is only 6 months old and showing visible wear where the clamps are most used. My last one lasted 3 years.

I think I will try a phantom next even though they are slightly pricier than the equivalent Gardiner's .

without knowing the closed length/extended length and weight?
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AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23689
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 11:31:53 am »
Perhaps Stephen Fox will let us know weights and dimensions?

Very important to know when making a decision.
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Stoots

  • Posts: 6063
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2018, 02:34:23 pm »
Quote from: dazmond on October 11, 2018, 08:52:59 am
Quote from: Gomo on October 11, 2018, 08:31:26 am
I'm sure the slx has deteriorated in quality last couple of years.

My slx 18 is only 6 months old and showing visible wear where the clamps are most used. My last one lasted 3 years.

I think I will try a phantom next even though they are slightly pricier than the equivalent Gardiner's .

without knowing the closed length/extended length and weight?

I do know the weights/lengths daz  ;)





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dazmond

  • Posts: 23599
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2018, 04:57:14 pm »
that puts the phantom 25 hi mod(equivalent to the xtreme)to £720 including VAT..... :o
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dazmond

  • Posts: 23599
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 05:00:10 pm »
£642 for the xtreme 25 including VAT and brush/pole hose etc......
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Paul Golding

  • Posts: 246
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 05:15:00 pm »
Quote from: dazmond on October 11, 2018, 04:57:14 pm
that puts the phantom 25 hi mod(equivalent to the xtreme)to £720 including VAT..... :o

It's lighter than the extreme though . . Which is annoying as the equivalent to the slx is heavier ?? Don't get that . . If you're competing for top place then surely you would make it either the same weight or less??  ??? ???
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Stoots

  • Posts: 6063
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 05:37:51 pm »
They are more expensive than the gardiners and dont come with a brush etc so my intitial reaction was to stick with gardiners.

There only selling point is the clamp, if it really does reduce wear and thus the poles last longer than gardiners then its a winner. But we wont find that out for a fair while yet as these havent been out long.
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windowswashed

  • Posts: 2531
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 07:21:46 pm »
The overall pole circumference is smaller because the first section of these poles are smaller diameter than most poles. Wonder when Facelift will start selling the clamps on their own as I have a very old 44ft Facelift carbon pole that needs new clamps fitted
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Stephen Fox

  • Posts: 471
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2018, 11:40:02 am »
Quote from: dazmond on October 10, 2018, 10:18:48 pm
its ridiculous......extended length/closed length and weight should be standard for ANY pole manufacturer to display for us all to view..... ::)roll
Dazmond,

Weights, etc have been available for a while. We also have a printed catalogue with all the info, which was available at launch at the beginning of September.

We've put them on the main landing page for the Phantom range on our site (available here those interested - Phantom Poles) so it's a little easier to find. The above image posted by Gomo does have a typo in the closed length of the smaller poles, so should be disregarded.

For anything over 35ft, we've swapped the smaller first section found in the 18/22/25/30ft poles for a wider section. This greatly increases the rigidity  & strength of the poles when used at an extended height. There is a slight extra weight penalty, but the ease of use is increased greatly.
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dazmond

  • Posts: 23599
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2018, 12:54:39 pm »
Quote from: Stephen Fox on October 12, 2018, 11:40:02 am
Quote from: dazmond on October 10, 2018, 10:18:48 pm
its ridiculous......extended length/closed length and weight should be standard for ANY pole manufacturer to display for us all to view..... ::)roll
Dazmond,

Weights, etc have been available for a while. We also have a printed catalogue with all the info, which was available at launch at the beginning of September.

We've put them on the main landing page for the Phantom range on our site (available here those interested - Phantom Poles) so it's a little easier to find. The above image posted by Gomo does have a typo in the closed length of the smaller poles, so should be disregarded.

For anything over 35ft, we've swapped the smaller first section found in the 18/22/25/30ft poles for a wider section. This greatly increases the rigidity  & strength of the poles when used at an extended height. There is a slight extra weight penalty, but the ease of use is increased greatly.

thanks for that stephen...
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robbo333

  • Posts: 2407
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2018, 12:56:50 pm »
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has one of these new poles!

Until then, I'll stick with Gardiners, as they are tried and tested.

Also, the spec sheet doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Perhaps that's just me.

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Anthony Jardine

Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2018, 08:11:57 pm »
To be honest it’s the clamps that make it good as with what Steve (exceed ) designs,  I feel it’s good

I felt it was worth the risk of cost to see , nothing ventured as they say

I’ve given the phantom 22 and 30  to staff to see what they can do, and so far there’s no wear  , after three months the SLX shows sign of wear with staff so we will see, if it last a year I’m happy, what I do like is you can order one with the flight kit and uni vale to be fitted

So it just saves me time buying two products from different suppliers and fitting it myself.

For me its the extreme, I’ve tried a 25 phantom hi mod and I prefer weight And balance of the Gardner’s extreme

If you could put Steve’s clamps on Alex’s pole there’s a combination I would like to try

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Clever Forum Name

  • Posts: 5942
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2018, 08:38:27 pm »
I'm sure Alex is probably making a similarISH clamp design as we speak.

Used extreme's since launch date in 2011 so it's gonna take a special pole for me to swap  ;D
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mufcglen

  • Posts: 1507
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2018, 11:45:57 am »
isnt that company in china producing the same clamps or something similar with inserts?
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Stephen Fox

  • Posts: 471
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2018, 02:51:21 pm »
Quote from: Clever Forum Name on October 12, 2018, 08:38:27 pm
I'm sure Alex is probably making a similarISH clamp design as we speak.

Used extreme's since launch date in 2011 so it's gonna take a special pole for me to swap  ;D

There are some pretty tight parents filed on the Phantom clamps, so will be interesting to see if copycat features pop up in the future on any other manufacturers poles.

As you say, Extemes, etc have been around for many, many years so a new design for lateral clamps was well over due mainly to address the issue we see in the mature pole market we now have in the UK.

Quote from: mufcglen on October 13, 2018, 11:45:57 am
isnt that company in china producing the same clamps or something similar with inserts?

Yes, a video appeared two days after the Phantom made its debut of a Chinese clamp with an insert. Has to be noted it was only a CAD drawing on paper, no prototypes, etc. Did seem to have the element of ‘quickly knocked up’ about it.

As above with the IP. A specific material is used in the Phantom, rubber grips to much making it stick which is no good for the constant extending we see in day to day water fed pole use.
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windowswashed

  • Posts: 2531
Re: Extreme or Phantom...??
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2018, 08:53:01 pm »
Can Steven Fox tell me what outer diameter measurements the 35 and 40ft poles are please both in carbon and hi carbon?
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