[Marc Stock]

Well just been through a thorough clean up of customers on the database. I decided to remove customers on the database that fell into the following categories:

1) canceled more than 2 occasions in the last year
2) removed customers that were marked "on hold" for various reasons (building work being done or will contact me when ready again).
3) removed drossy customers that just are not worth the effort.

my list has gone down from 300 customers to just 283.  with a new reduced turnover of £47k per year from £49,700. its made me feel a bit....blahh  . but at least i have a solid basis to build from in 2018.

i always seem to hit a peak...and kind of stay there...not this time i am ready for a big old push. By March 2019 i need to be around £80k per year. which is an extra £33k so here is my plan.

Working on the following figures:

£47,377 divided by 283 customers is an average yearly turnover of £167.41 per customer, which isn't actually that bad TBH I was quite surprised.

So to get to 80k per year turnover, starting from January 2018 to March 2019 i need an extra 195 customers  based on my figures.

15 months into 195= 13 new customers per month, every month for 15 months to March 2019. That is also depending on the following factors:

No one dies from my current list
No one cancells
and I get off my backside and canvass

So there you go. as of January 2018 i need to have at least 13 new customers to get a good start on my 15month push to 80k

And i'm going back to a 5 day week, no more 4 days (sometimes 3.5 day, due to some fridays being a half day). I consider this as my last big push in my window cleaning career; 15 years of window cleaning and i have had enough. I want to get the business to a new level where i can comfortably employ someone full time, failing this if i cant make it work thats it...im selling up and doing something else.

[paul alan]

Sounds like a plan!

I had plans like this last year and exceeded them, feel well made up with myself.

Don't sit round thinking about figures and numbers too much or you'll start to feel daunted, just put your head down and keep going and you'll be surprised at what you can do.

I reckon 13 new customers per month is conservative and you should have no problems achieving that, canvassing is enjoyable as long as your getting the customers in. Its crap when you not!(which was rare)

As your probably aware though you'll need to go through a lot more than 13 customers per month to retain 13 customers per month.

Last year i worked myself to the point of exhaustion with the first cleans, they are hard work and i found no way around this. But because of my very high first clean standards, i started canvassing in march and went for around 6 weeks but had to stop knocking because i couldn't keep up with the work coming in due to recommendations. It stayed like this all year.

I am going to do a cull this year and maybe a little canvass too.

Good luck mate, but having said that if you set your mind to this you wont need it.

If a man is so determined to do something, it will be nearly impossible to stop him.

[Stoots]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

[tlwcs]

Well just been through a thorough clean up of customers on the database. I decided to remove customers on the database that fell into the following categories:

1) canceled more than 2 occasions in the last year
2) removed customers that were marked "on hold" for various reasons (building work being done or will contact me when ready again).
3) removed drossy customers that just are not worth the effort.

my list has gone down from 300 customers to just 283.  with a new reduced turnover of £47k per year from £49,700. its made me feel a bit....blahh  . but at least i have a solid basis to build from in 2018.

i always seem to hit a peak...and kind of stay there...not this time i am ready for a big old push. By March 2019 i need to be around £80k per year. which is an extra £33k so here is my plan.

Working on the following figures:

£47,377 divided by 283 customers is an average yearly turnover of £167.41 per customer, which isn't actually that bad TBH I was quite surprised.

So to get to 80k per year turnover, starting from January 2018 to March 2019 i need an extra 195 customers  based on my figures.

15 months into 195= 13 new customers per month, every month for 15 months to March 2019. That is also depending on the following factors:

No one dies from my current list
No one cancells
and I get off my backside and canvass

So there you go. as of January 2018 i need to have at least 13 new customers to get a good start on my 15month push to 80k

And i'm going back to a 5 day week, no more 4 days (sometimes 3.5 day, due to some fridays being a half day). I consider this as my last big push in my window cleaning career; 15 years of window cleaning and i have had enough. I want to get the business to a new level where i can comfortably employ someone full time, failing this if i cant make it work thats it...im selling up and doing something else.

Great post 
Tony

[Dry Clean]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever, unfortunately when it comes to business talk its hard to be nice and honest at the same time, its why posts like these tend to be more of an backside kissing exercise than anything thats ever constructive.
Your never going to get off the tools unless your prepared to risk your time and more importantly your money, doesnt matter how wealthy the area is you work in.
If you want to employ then find the money to employ and do it now, next spend the spare time you now have getting enough work to keep your employee occupied, its as simple as that.

[Dry Clean]

There's no such thing as comfortably employing, even in an area where an employee can knock out £60k, after employee costs,
vat and so on you would be lucky to get a 25% return, therefore your talking a minimum of 4 employees to get you off the tools.

[tlwcs]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever, unfortunately when it comes to business talk its hard to be nice and honest at the same time, its why posts like these tend to be more of an backside kissing exercise than anything thats ever constructive.
Your never going to get off the tools unless your prepared to risk your time and more importantly your money, doesnt matter how wealthy the area is you work in.
If you want to employ then find the money to employ and do it now, next spend the spare time you now have getting enough work to keep your employee occupied, its as simple as that.

Full of Christmas joy Shaun?  I think it's a great post. Setting goals or having a business plan is part of my business, it was nice to read Marc's

[Marc Stock]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever

Sorry Dry Clean. Please let me clarify.

Crabble be sgug. Hughs hhsh it a nan by lala heh yehafeg.

Done hehy don wiandy byonat bomg losn hsj heha ns. Plen ana. Eh hana  hhak hhauy jong op haun long hin ahaub he jo nob nom long chi via bang bang

Hope that clarified things for you.

From now on i will reply to your posts in the language you are familiar with as demonstrated above. You never have anything positive to say anyway.

[Marc Stock]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

Well good one mate.

Lets keep in contact and see how we get on. Ignore Dry Clean no one seems to speak his language.

[Johnny B]

I always enjoy reading about the plans for expansion etc, and hope you all get somewhere near where you want to be.

I am generally very happy with the way my business is going, but it's now time to refine it.

I am currently sorting out my work schedules so that I can start working smarter. It will take a few weeks to be fully implemented and working, but I am looking forward to the challenge and making it happen.

John

[Og]

Go for it!!

[dazmond]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

if your round is bringing in 40k a year how come your always skint mate?

paying off debts?

[Stoots]

Nice one Marc.



I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

Well good one mate.

Lets keep in contact and see how we get on. Ignore Dry Clean no one seems to speak his language.

I never listed to anyone  but myself mate.

Not interested in what anyone else says can't be done, that's their limitations talking.

[Stoots]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

if your round is bringing in 40k a year how come your always skint mate?

paying off debts?

Im not skint mate, but not got a lot of spare brass either..

I have some debt 200 quid a month loan, 200 quid a month van.

But I have 5 kids and all the usual bills and a girlfriend that only works 16 hours a week so theres not a lot left after tax and insurance etc.

Bit different to being a single man with council rent! 

But that's a forecasted 40k from now, last tax year I didn't turn over anywhere near that amount, this time last year I had 180 customers...Spent 7k this year on marketing as well so not much left really.

[dazmond]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

if your round is bringing in 40k a year how come your always skint mate?

paying off debts?

Im not skint mate, but not got a lot of spare brass either..

I have some debt 200 quid a month loan, 200 quid a month van.

But I have 5 kids and all the usual bills and a girlfriend that only works 16 hours a week so theres not a lot left after tax and insurance etc.

Bit different to being a single man with council rent! 

But that's a forecasted 40k from now, last tax year I didn't turn over anywhere near that amount, this time last year I had 180 customers...Spent 7k this year on marketing as well so not much left really.

i can understand why you want to build a bigger business now mate.

good luck.

[Stoots]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

if your round is bringing in 40k a year how come your always skint mate?

paying off debts?

Im not skint mate, but not got a lot of spare brass either..

I have some debt 200 quid a month loan, 200 quid a month van.

But I have 5 kids and all the usual bills and a girlfriend that only works 16 hours a week so theres not a lot left after tax and insurance etc.

Bit different to being a single man with council rent! 

But that's a forecasted 40k from now, last tax year I didn't turn over anywhere near that amount, this time last year I had 180 customers...Spent 7k this year on marketing as well so not much left really.

i can understand why you want to build a bigger business now mate.

good luck.

Aye I want more from life than grafting everyday without a great deal to show for it. 

The thing is when you have 5 kids if you earn minimum wage like I used to a few years ago you get a lot of benefits, now I earn 30k plus I lose them so not that much  better off really..that's why the only real option is growth of the business if I ever want to have any decent money.

[nathankaye]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

if your round is bringing in 40k a year how come your always skint mate?

paying off debts?

Im not skint mate, but not got a lot of spare brass either..

I have some debt 200 quid a month loan, 200 quid a month van.

But I have 5 kids and all the usual bills and a girlfriend that only works 16 hours a week so theres not a lot left after tax and insurance etc.

Bit different to being a single man with council rent! 

But that's a forecasted 40k from now, last tax year I didn't turn over anywhere near that amount, this time last year I had 180 customers...Spent 7k this year on marketing as well so not much left really.

i can understand why you want to build a bigger business now mate.

good luck.

Aye I want more from life than grafting everyday without a great deal to show for it. 

The thing is when you have 5 kids if you earn minimum wage like I used to a few years ago you get a lot of benefits, now I earn 30k plus I lose them so not that much  better off really..that's why the only real option is growth of the business if I ever want to have any decent money.

A family certainly keeps you motivated, i know that one (xwife n 3 kids and currently with wife n 3 more little ones..... Haha its the x who drains ya) 
But having any type of business plan pushes that motivation in the right direction for the right rewards.

Its great to read plans and not to see too much negative comments on the thread

[Stoots]

Nice one Marc.

I'm drawing up similar plans.

I have 315 custys for 40k (my prices are no where near as good as yours) that's probably 250 4 weekly, these rest 8 weekly and a few 12s..

I need to drop about 20 of them as they are just poor jobs, bad payers etc.

So I need another 300 roughly to get to my target of 80k.

So I need to double my round, and it want to achieve it by the end of 2018.

I might not manage it but will try 

I have a plan in place to gain new work but it's going to need some £££investment

Ive realised I don't want to do this job 5 days a week for the rest of my life so the plan is to build a little business with an employee or 2 and free up some time to look into other ventures.

But next year I need to up my game to 5 days a week and longer hours to get there first. Looking forward to getting back to it.

if your round is bringing in 40k a year how come your always skint mate?

paying off debts?

Im not skint mate, but not got a lot of spare brass either..

I have some debt 200 quid a month loan, 200 quid a month van.

But I have 5 kids and all the usual bills and a girlfriend that only works 16 hours a week so theres not a lot left after tax and insurance etc.

Bit different to being a single man with council rent! 

But that's a forecasted 40k from now, last tax year I didn't turn over anywhere near that amount, this time last year I had 180 customers...Spent 7k this year on marketing as well so not much left really.

i can understand why you want to build a bigger business now mate.

good luck.

Aye I want more from life than grafting everyday without a great deal to show for it. 

The thing is when you have 5 kids if you earn minimum wage like I used to a few years ago you get a lot of benefits, now I earn 30k plus I lose them so not that much  better off really..that's why the only real option is growth of the business if I ever want to have any decent money.

A family certainly keeps you motivated, i know that one (xwife n 3 kids and currently with wife n 3 more little ones..... Haha its the x who drains ya) 
But having any type of business plan pushes that motivation in the right direction for the right rewards.

Its great to read plans and not to see too much negative comments on the thread

Yeh I have 3 with ex, 2 with current.

My gf just give birth 3 days ago (Xmas Eve) hence why I'm typing this at at 3:50 in the morning  . As you will know the more you earn the more the Ex gets so it's a double edged sword.

[Dry Clean]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever

Sorry Dry Clean. Please let me clarify.

Crabble be sgug. Hughs hhsh it a nan by lala heh yehafeg.

Done hehy don wiandy byonat bomg losn hsj heha ns. Plen ana. Eh hana  hhak hhauy jong op haun long hin ahaub he jo nob nom long chi via bang bang

Hope that clarified things for you.

From now on i will reply to your posts in the language you are familiar with as demonstrated above. You never have anything positive to say anyway.

Grow up, if all your looking for is a pat on the head then you need to make that clearer, your business plan is idiotic but just to
be positive, Iv heard you have a excellent singing voice.

[Dry Clean]

Great posts Adam, the problem is as a sole trader you can only do so much and getting to the next level (employing ) involves
risk and upfront costs which can be daunting when you have a young family to support.
Unfortunately mate its that which usualy stops guys in their tracks, the question you need to ask yourself now is, are you prepared to take that risk and can you afford/raise the extra costs ?

[Marc Stock]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever

Sorry Dry Clean. Please let me clarify.

Crabble be sgug. Hughs hhsh it a nan by lala heh yehafeg.

Done hehy don wiandy byonat bomg losn hsj heha ns. Plen ana. Eh hana  hhak hhauy jong op haun long hin ahaub he jo nob nom long chi via bang bang

Hope that clarified things for you.

From now on i will reply to your posts in the language you are familiar with as demonstrated above. You never have anything positive to say anyway.

Iv heard you have a excellent singing voice.

Ghu gth blom ne nah haha ip now cjange vnuag.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Hi Marc, excellent post. I would advise keeping the forum updated with your progress. This gives you some accountability, which, is a very important part of the goal setting/achieving process. Your goals and plans are YOURS, you are the only one who knows your own situation.
To clarify!!!!  Anything is possible with your window cleaning business, including building up a big business and getting off the tools WITHOUT financial risk taking.
Study the different ways of expanding, you do not need to employ to have a multi van operation. What you have shared with us and your plans for the coming months/year are perfect for whichever route of expansion you decide.
P.S> This is not smoke blowing or kissing anywhere I would rather not, I don't need to.
All the best for 2018.

[Marc Stock]

Thanks David.

I will keep you posted, i employ both me and the missus on PAYE anyway so i already have two employees running the business. But i want to grow it so i can get someone on tools. Even if its for 3 days a week  and i do 2 days over two vans.

Problem with people like Dry C**** is that they are 'cant people'. You can't do that...you can't do this...you only have to look at the history of his replies to see that with others.

Ps Dry C**** im happy to give you singing lessons from what i can tell you need them.

[Marc Stock]

Just got a call from the artist about my logo redesign.  He has some sketches for me to look at later

Its all go

[dazmond]

Well just been through a thorough clean up of customers on the database. I decided to remove customers on the database that fell into the following categories:

1) canceled more than 2 occasions in the last year
2) removed customers that were marked "on hold" for various reasons (building work being done or will contact me when ready again).
3) removed drossy customers that just are not worth the effort.

my list has gone down from 300 customers to just 283.  with a new reduced turnover of £47k per year from £49,700. its made me feel a bit....blahh  . but at least i have a solid basis to build from in 2018.

i always seem to hit a peak...and kind of stay there...not this time i am ready for a big old push. By March 2019 i need to be around £80k per year. which is an extra £33k so here is my plan.

Working on the following figures:

£47,377 divided by 283 customers is an average yearly turnover of £167.41 per customer, which isn't actually that bad TBH I was quite surprised.

So to get to 80k per year turnover, starting from January 2018 to March 2019 i need an extra 195 customers  based on my figures.

15 months into 195= 13 new customers per month, every month for 15 months to March 2019. That is also depending on the following factors:

No one dies from my current list
No one cancells
and I get off my backside and canvass

So there you go. as of January 2018 i need to have at least 13 new customers to get a good start on my 15month push to 80k

And i'm going back to a 5 day week, no more 4 days (sometimes 3.5 day, due to some fridays being a half day). I consider this as my last big push in my window cleaning career; 15 years of window cleaning and i have had enough. I want to get the business to a new level where i can comfortably employ someone full time, failing this if i cant make it work thats it...im selling up and doing something else.

so 47k a year.is that over 52 weeks marc?as you need to take 6 weeks off that at least for holidays,sickness,xmas,bad weather etc.so thats roughly £900 a week.(6 x £900 =£5,400)off that 47k.so its more like £41-£42k a year(turnover not profit)

is that for 2 of you working in the business?


also why get rid of customers having building work done or who have skipped the odd clean?we all have customers like that but they still earn us money throughout the year.

some customers  die or cancel no matter how solid a round you ve got.

my turnover is around the £43-45k a year mark(after 6 weeks taken out for holidays) but its just me as a sole trader.no one else is employed.

[robbo333]

Hi Marc

What's the best email to get you on?

Cheers

Robbo

[Dry Clean]

Thanks David.

I will keep you posted, i employ both me and the missus on PAYE anyway so i already have two employees running the business. But i want to grow it so i can get someone on tools. Even if its for 3 days a week  and i do 2 days over two vans.

Problem with people like Dry C**** is that they are 'cant people'. You can't do that...you can't do this...you only have to look at the history of his replies to see that with others.

Ps Dry C**** im happy to give you singing lessons from what i can tell you need them.

[Dry Clean]

Well just been through a thorough clean up of customers on the database. I decided to remove customers on the database that fell into the following categories:

1) canceled more than 2 occasions in the last year
2) removed customers that were marked "on hold" for various reasons (building work being done or will contact me when ready again).
3) removed drossy customers that just are not worth the effort.

my list has gone down from 300 customers to just 283.  with a new reduced turnover of £47k per year from £49,700. its made me feel a bit....blahh  . but at least i have a solid basis to build from in 2018.

i always seem to hit a peak...and kind of stay there...not this time i am ready for a big old push. By March 2019 i need to be around £80k per year. which is an extra £33k so here is my plan.

Working on the following figures:

£47,377 divided by 283 customers is an average yearly turnover of £167.41 per customer, which isn't actually that bad TBH I was quite surprised.

So to get to 80k per year turnover, starting from January 2018 to March 2019 i need an extra 195 customers  based on my figures.

15 months into 195= 13 new customers per month, every month for 15 months to March 2019. That is also depending on the following factors:

No one dies from my current list
No one cancells
and I get off my backside and canvass

So there you go. as of January 2018 i need to have at least 13 new customers to get a good start on my 15month push to 80k

And i'm going back to a 5 day week, no more 4 days (sometimes 3.5 day, due to some fridays being a half day). I consider this as my last big push in my window cleaning career; 15 years of window cleaning and i have had enough. I want to get the business to a new level where i can comfortably employ someone full time, failing this if i cant make it work thats it...im selling up and doing something else.

so 47k a year.is that over 52 weeks marc?as you need to take 6 weeks off that at least for holidays,sickness,xmas,bad weather etc.so thats roughly £900 a week.(6 x £900 =£5,400)off that 47k.so its more like £41-£42k a year(turnover not profit)

is that for 2 of you working in the business?


also why get rid of customers having building work done or who have skipped the odd clean?we all have customers like that but they still earn us money throughout the year.

some customers  die or cancel no matter how solid a round you ve got.

my turnover is around the £43-45k a year mark(after 6 weeks taken out for holidays) but its just me as a sole trader.no one else is employed.

Its just one big Why? Dazmond but say nothing as Iv already upset him enough. lol.

[Dry Clean]

Hi Marc, excellent post. I would advise keeping the forum updated with your progress. This gives you some accountability, which, is a very important part of the goal setting/achieving process. Your goals and plans are YOURS, you are the only one who knows your own situation.
To clarify!!!!  Anything is possible with your window cleaning business, including building up a big business and getting off the tools WITHOUT financial risk taking.
Study the different ways of expanding, you do not need to employ to have a multi van operation. What you have shared with us and your plans for the coming months/year are perfect for whichever route of expansion you decide.
P.S> This is not smoke blowing or kissing anywhere I would rather not, I don't need to.
All the best for 2018.

There always a financial risk when going from a sole trader to an employer, granted in window cleaning that risk would be less
than it would be in other professions.
For a start you have to cover an employees wages and costs until you have gained enough extra work to cover these costs,
the problem with some on here is they want the employee to take all the pain while they sit back and eventually reap the rewards, theres always exceptions to the rules but good employees dont tend to be people desperate to put up with anything.

[Og]

Don’t listen to to haters.
It’s easy.
All you need to do is get more work, do it, then get paid.
Study employment law and up your insurance etc.
It really isn’t difficult.
I would get another van as soon as you can. Makes more money. Also one guy cleaning while you’re canvassing.
Good luck!

[Marc Stock]

The 47k is currently what my customer list is showing at on the database. This consists of monthly cleans (12) bi monthly cleans (6) and quarterly cleans (4) per year.

The ones that mess about i have taken off the list, the ones that are having building work done i have taken off the list until they complete the work and they will go back on the list.

The 47k is completed over 4 days a week throughout the year. I havent taken a holiday for more than 1 week at a time the only holiday i have taken this year is now and i simply worked 5 days a week in December. I still complete the same work.

As far as wages are concerned both me and the wife take a basic salary each on PAYE which covers our living costs and the rest of the profit stays in the business. If i need extra money i draw a directors loan and will wrtite that total down on a div certificate at the end of year from the NET profits.

Currently as the business stands to date i have completed £34k in turnover and on track for around £46k of actual turnover by the end of March, which is approx 4k per month. Actually in jan its 4700 and feb 3300 and visa versa.

Now going back to the customer list. I removed people that didn't actually contribute to my turnover this year due to messing about, building work etc.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Hi Marc, excellent post. I would advise keeping the forum updated with your progress. This gives you some accountability, which, is a very important part of the goal setting/achieving process. Your goals and plans are YOURS, you are the only one who knows your own situation.
To clarify!!!!  Anything is possible with your window cleaning business, including building up a big business and getting off the tools WITHOUT financial risk taking.
Study the different ways of expanding, you do not need to employ to have a multi van operation. What you have shared with us and your plans for the coming months/year are perfect for whichever route of expansion you decide.
P.S> This is not smoke blowing or kissing anywhere I would rather not, I don't need to.
All the best for 2018.

There always a financial risk when going from a sole trader to an employer, granted in window cleaning that risk would be less
than it would be in other professions.
For a start you have to cover an employees wages and costs until you have gained enough extra work to cover these costs,
the problem with some on here is they want the employee to take all the pain while they sit back and eventually reap the rewards, theres always exceptions to the rules but good employees dont tend to be people desperate to put up with anything.

You are quite correct with the above statement.
I would suggest going down the franchising route to eliminate any financial risk.
Basically, work flat out till you cannot fit any more customers in your round. 'Find' a suitable franchisee, train them, give them half your round.  Repeat this process until you are paid enough in commission for you to come off the tools. It really is that simple.

[dazmond]

as long as my profit is around 30-32k  a year after ALL expenses,taxes,insurances are taken out im happy.although itll be less this year due to investing in diesel heater,upgraded electrics etc.

good luck with it marc but what happened last time you expanded?(as its not the first time you ve done this).

with your experience of doing it before you stand a better chance of making a success of it.


best wishes


dazmond

[Marc Stock]

as long as my profit is around 30-32k  a year after ALL expenses,taxes,insurances are taken out im happy.although itll be less this year due to investing in diesel heater,upgraded electrics etc.

good luck with it marc but what happened last time you expanded?(as its not the first time you ve done this).

with your experience of doing it before you stand a better chance of making a success of it.


best wishes


dazmond

Thanks Dazmond.

Yes the last time i did this it did go tits. Mostly down to me staying a sole trader and not taking profesional advice for bookkeeping and taxation; plus i was younger and less experienced.

As a sole trader imo if you are making more than £35k a year in profit it starts to become an exercise of constantly justifying to HMRC what expenses are allowable and are not. And trust me as a sole trader you have no contest against them once you are on thier radar, they will argue that black is white if they have a strong chance of getting more out of you.

Then you have payments on account which becomes a real pain. And as you start to approach upper tax bracket it becomes less and less worthwhile.

What i am doing is the following:

Keeping profits in the company, only paying what i need in wages for me and the missus on PAYE so no payments on account.  And by having a ltd company using chartered accountants you have much more om your side.

[Dry Clean]

Hi Marc, excellent post. I would advise keeping the forum updated with your progress. This gives you some accountability, which, is a very important part of the goal setting/achieving process. Your goals and plans are YOURS, you are the only one who knows your own situation.
To clarify!!!!  Anything is possible with your window cleaning business, including building up a big business and getting off the tools WITHOUT financial risk taking.
Study the different ways of expanding, you do not need to employ to have a multi van operation. What you have shared with us and your plans for the coming months/year are perfect for whichever route of expansion you decide.
P.S> This is not smoke blowing or kissing anywhere I would rather not, I don't need to.
All the best for 2018.

There always a financial risk when going from a sole trader to an employer, granted in window cleaning that risk would be less
than it would be in other professions.
For a start you have to cover an employees wages and costs until you have gained enough extra work to cover these costs,
the problem with some on here is they want the employee to take all the pain while they sit back and eventually reap the rewards, theres always exceptions to the rules but good employees dont tend to be people desperate to put up with anything.

You are quite correct with the above statement.
I would suggest going down the franchising route to eliminate any financial risk.
Basically, work flat out till you cannot fit any more customers in your round. 'Find' a suitable franchisee, train them, give them half your round.  Repeat this process until you are paid enough in commission for you to come off the tools. It really is that simple.

Its not that simple, lets take Dazmonds round as an example, he's a focused guy who has his round refined and successful
giving him around £47k before costs, (most on here including myself find that impressive).
That said I certainly wouldnt take half of it as a franchise as there would be little left after costs and commission, he could still
build a successful franchise business by giving up all his round though and taking a financial cut until he builds another round
and then repeating that again and again until he can come off the tools.

 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Dryclean, do you have any experience in franchising? I am guessing the answer is no.
I am telling you it really is that simple. I am not saying its easy and everyone could do it, but it is a simple business model to follow.
 

[Steve Newres]

Dryclean, do you have any experience in franchising? I am guessing the answer is no.
I am telling you it really is that simple. I am not saying its easy and everyone could do it, but it is a simple business model to follow.

To get back to £47 if he came off the tools he’d need to quadruple his work to just under £200k, correct?

[Lee Pryor]

I cant resist

There is nothing wrong with his plan at all. Hes set a goal worked out what it will take to reach that goal. Its just getting on with it that matters. The way round he chooses to do things is up to him and does not make his plan idiotic in any way.

Dry clean you really are top of my list of people I would like to see removed from this forum. Not because you dont kiss ass but because you are just the most negative person here. Not a nice word to say about anything! Ever! You hide behind your fake name with no details of who you are, where your from, what your business is called. How do you know what should and shouldnt be done and in what order. Lets see something about you. What is your business website, lets all have a look at your level of success.

Stop hiding behind your fake name.... Lets all see who you are.

[Dry Clean]

I cant resist

There is nothing wrong with his plan at all. Hes set a goal worked out what it will take to reach that goal. Its just getting on with it that matters. The way round he chooses to do things is up to him and does not make his plan idiotic in any way.

Dry clean you really are top of my list of people I would like to see removed from this forum. Not because you dont kiss ass but because you are just the most negative person here. Not a nice word to say about anything! Ever! You hide behind your fake name with no details of who you are, where your from, what your business is called. How do you know what should and shouldnt be done and in what order. Lets see something about you. What is your business website, lets all have a look at your level of success.

Stop hiding behind your fake name.... Lets all see who you are.

Stop crying Lee, off course you would want me removed as you would anybody else who can see through your nonsense,
there's nothing Iv said that cant be debated so instead of yapping why not debate the subject at hand and point out where or what Iv said which is wrong. (roll eyes).

Just to be clear I said his plan didn't make sense, I only said it was idiotic when it got a bit bitchy on both sides, for that I
apologize.

[Dry Clean]

Dryclean, do you have any experience in franchising? I am guessing the answer is no.
I am telling you it really is that simple. I am not saying its easy and everyone could do it, but it is a simple business model to follow.

Iv given you Dazmonds stats as he would be considered a successful sole trader, go ahead and explain how he could easily turn his business into a franchise ?

[Steve Newres]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever, unfortunately when it comes to business talk its hard to be nice and honest at the same time, its why posts like these tend to be more of an backside kissing exercise than anything thats ever constructive.
Your never going to get off the tools unless your prepared to risk your time and more importantly your money, doesnt matter how wealthy the area is you work in.
If you want to employ then find the money to employ and do it now, next spend the spare time you now have getting enough work to keep your employee occupied, its as simple as that.

You are advocating the riskier way. The way I did it was to get to the point where I was 2 weeks behind and needed to employ to catch up. However you’ll never do it unless a: you canvass or leaflet in your spare time or b: pay someone to do it.

[Dry Clean]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever, unfortunately when it comes to business talk its hard to be nice and honest at the same time, its why posts like these tend to be more of an backside kissing exercise than anything thats ever constructive.
Your never going to get off the tools unless your prepared to risk your time and more importantly your money, doesnt matter how wealthy the area is you work in.
If you want to employ then find the money to employ and do it now, next spend the spare time you now have getting enough work to keep your employee occupied, its as simple as that.

You are advocating the riskier way. The way I did it was to get to the point where I was 2 weeks behind and needed to employ to catch up. However you’ll never do it unless a: you canvass or leaflet in your spare time or b: pay someone to do it.

I do agree to a point, but I do think if you want to get a good employee then you need to be able to offer a good fulltime position
from the off even if this means subsidising their wages until you have got enough work to cover the costs.
2 weeks out of 8 would still mean a shortfall of 6 weeks work to be made up out of your earnings until you get the extra work.

[Steve Newres]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever, unfortunately when it comes to business talk its hard to be nice and honest at the same time, its why posts like these tend to be more of an backside kissing exercise than anything thats ever constructive.
Your never going to get off the tools unless your prepared to risk your time and more importantly your money, doesnt matter how wealthy the area is you work in.
If you want to employ then find the money to employ and do it now, next spend the spare time you now have getting enough work to keep your employee occupied, its as simple as that.

You are advocating the riskier way. The way I did it was to get to the point where I was 2 weeks behind and needed to employ to catch up. However you’ll never do it unless a: you canvass or leaflet in your spare time or b: pay someone to do it.

I do agree to a point, but I do think if you want to get a good employee then you need to be able to offer a good fulltime position
from the off even if this means subsidising their wages until you have got enough work to cover the costs.
2 weeks out of 8 would still mean a shortfall of 6 weeks work to be made up out of your earnings until you get the extra work.

Not in my case because once I employed I did all the one offs I had been turning down and up sold fascia and conservatory cleans. With the new work coming in as well barely  caught up.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Dryclean, do you have any experience in franchising? I am guessing the answer is no.
I am telling you it really is that simple. I am not saying its easy and everyone could do it, but it is a simple business model to follow.

To get back to £47 if he came off the tools he’d need to quadruple his work to just under £200k, correct?

Correct, that amount of work would be needed for him to be off the tools. Do you think the short stint of really hard work, first cleans, canvassing, leaflets etc would be worth it?
Lets say he could achieve it in 3 years, I think dazmond would love all the time off with the gf and playing music etc. Imagine if he did the same over the next 3 years!! Gets you thinking doesn’t it?  94k a year with very little input.
Very very achievable.

[Dry Clean]

Dryclean, do you have any experience in franchising? I am guessing the answer is no.
I am telling you it really is that simple. I am not saying its easy and everyone could do it, but it is a simple business model to follow.

To get back to £47 if he came off the tools he’d need to quadruple his work to just under £200k, correct?

Correct, that amount of work would be needed for him to be off the tools. Do you think the short stint of really hard work, first cleans, canvassing, leaflets etc would be worth it?
Lets say he could achieve it in 3 years, I think dazmond would love all the time off with the gf and playing music etc. Imagine if he did the same over the next 3 years!! Gets you thinking doesn’t it?  94k a year with very little input.
Very very achievable.

How does  he get £94k from £200k worth of work ? that would be nearly 50% commission, he's a focused hard working guy on
around £47k why would anybody do the same for £24k before costs ?

[p1w1]

think he means 400k of work for 94k

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

think he means 400k of work for 94k

Correct, 3 years to 47k, 6 years to 94k.

[Steve Newres]

think he means 400k of work for 94k

Correct, 3 years to 47k, 6 years to 94k.

If he employed he'd have far more.

[Steve Newres]

think he means 400k of work for 94k

Correct, 3 years to 47k, 6 years to 94k.

And VAT. ;-)

[Dry Clean]

think he means 400k of work for 94k

Correct, 3 years to 47k, 6 years to 94k.

If he employed he'd have far more.

I would say having to double his workload for the next 6 years would be more of a concern, lol.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

think he means 400k of work for 94k

Correct, 3 years to 47k, 6 years to 94k.

And VAT. ;-)

Yes he should stop when his commission is a few grand a year off the vat level.

[Marc Stock]

I cant resist

There is nothing wrong with his plan at all. Hes set a goal worked out what it will take to reach that goal. Its just getting on with it that matters. The way round he chooses to do things is up to him and does not make his plan idiotic in any way.

Dry clean you really are top of my list of people I would like to see removed from this forum. Not because you dont kiss ass but because you are just the most negative person here. Not a nice word to say about anything! Ever! You hide behind your fake name with no details of who you are, where your from, what your business is called. How do you know what should and shouldnt be done and in what order. Lets see something about you. What is your business website, lets all have a look at your level of success.

Stop hiding behind your fake name.... Lets all see who you are.

Stop crying Lee, off course you would want me removed as you would anybody else who can see through your nonsense,
there's nothing Iv said that cant be debated so instead of yapping why not debate the subject at hand and point out where or what Iv said which is wrong. (roll eyes).

Just to be clear I said his plan didn't make sense, I only said it was idiotic when it got a bit bitchy on both sides, for that I
apologize.

Dry Clean.

I am going to attempt to reply to you in the original language i started with.

You sir only like to do one thing. And thats to put people down. You enjoy telling people that their plans are stupid and flawed, you make assumptions about me and lee and others on this forum to publicise, pull apart and openly mock.

I have read through your historic posts they are all somewhat negative, insulting and frankly it shows unfortunately to me and others you are a very very unhappy individual.

I am not upset with you, i am not insulted by you. I care not what you think of me, what witty insults you can come up with. I find your posts sad, i feel sorry for you and those whom are connected to you.

I also concur with Lee i would also like to see you banned as you have nothing of actual importance or usefulness to add.

[Marc Stock]

Hi Marc

What's the best email to get you on?

Cheers

Robbo

info@stockclean.co.uk

[KS Cleaning]

I cant resist

There is nothing wrong with his plan at all. Hes set a goal worked out what it will take to reach that goal. Its just getting on with it that matters. The way round he chooses to do things is up to him and does not make his plan idiotic in any way.

Dry clean you really are top of my list of people I would like to see removed from this forum. Not because you dont kiss ass but because you are just the most negative person here. Not a nice word to say about anything! Ever! You hide behind your fake name with no details of who you are, where your from, what your business is called. How do you know what should and shouldnt be done and in what order. Lets see something about you. What is your business website, lets all have a look at your level of success.

Stop hiding behind your fake name.... Lets all see who you are.

Stop crying Lee, off course you would want me removed as you would anybody else who can see through your nonsense,
there's nothing Iv said that cant be debated so instead of yapping why not debate the subject at hand and point out where or what Iv said which is wrong. (roll eyes).

Just to be clear I said his plan didn't make sense, I only said it was idiotic when it got a bit bitchy on both sides, for that I
apologize.

Dry Clean.

I am going to attempt to reply to you in the original language i started with.

You sir only like to do one thing. And thats to put people down. You enjoy telling people that their plans are stupid and flawed, you make assumptions about me and lee and others on this forum to publicise, pull apart and openly mock.

I have read through your historic posts they are all somewhat negative, insulting and frankly it shows unfortunately to me and others you are a very very unhappy individual.

I am not upset with you, i am not insulted by you. I care not what you think of me, what witty insults you can come up with. I find your posts sad, i feel sorry for you and those whom are connected to you.

I also concur with Lee i would also like to see you banned as you have nothing of actual importance or usefulness to add.

Tag team! Dry clean has given more positive advice on this forum than the two of you world beaters ever have!

[Marc Stock]

World beaters?

 

[jo5hm4n]

Can't be doing with people so negative all the time, when someone is just trying to realistically better themselves and their business.  We need more people posting about their business plans for 2018, it's good motivation and encouragement for everybody on here is trying to progress year on year.

 Someone put a poll up to get Dry Clean removed, il vote 

[Don Kee]

It’s just pixels on a screen chaps, and as adults we have this amazing ability to ignore...

If you have struggled to acquire said skill, then most forums have a function to help, it has been described as the ‘moron blocker’ on the dark side of the forum...

I think it’d be a boring place though if we all just agreed with each other...how would we learn if people didn’t have differing opinions...?

Anyway, that’s my one sensible and good will post of the year...you can all sod off now you bunch of mincers.

#Kumbayah my lord...Kumbayah#

[Stoots]

LOL. its not a great posts it makes no sense what so ever, unfortunately when it comes to business talk its hard to be nice and honest at the same time, its why posts like these tend to be more of an backside kissing exercise than anything thats ever constructive.
Your never going to get off the tools unless your prepared to risk your time and more importantly your money, doesnt matter how wealthy the area is you work in.
If you want to employ then find the money to employ and do it now, next spend the spare time you now have getting enough work to keep your employee occupied, its as simple as that.

You are advocating the riskier way. The way I did it was to get to the point where I was 2 weeks behind and needed to employ to catch up. However you’ll never do it unless a: you canvass or leaflet in your spare time or b: pay someone to do it.

Easiest way, that's how I will do it.

Take on more and more till you cant catch up, employ someone,  rinse and repeat.

Have a constant marketing plan going on, canvasser, leaflets or whatever as long as it works

[Dry Clean]

I cant resist

There is nothing wrong with his plan at all. Hes set a goal worked out what it will take to reach that goal. Its just getting on with it that matters. The way round he chooses to do things is up to him and does not make his plan idiotic in any way.

Dry clean you really are top of my list of people I would like to see removed from this forum. Not because you dont kiss ass but because you are just the most negative person here. Not a nice word to say about anything! Ever! You hide behind your fake name with no details of who you are, where your from, what your business is called. How do you know what should and shouldnt be done and in what order. Lets see something about you. What is your business website, lets all have a look at your level of success.

Stop hiding behind your fake name.... Lets all see who you are.

Stop crying Lee, off course you would want me removed as you would anybody else who can see through your nonsense,
there's nothing Iv said that cant be debated so instead of yapping why not debate the subject at hand and point out where or what Iv said which is wrong. (roll eyes).

Just to be clear I said his plan didn't make sense, I only said it was idiotic when it got a bit bitchy on both sides, for that I
apologize.

Dry Clean.

I am going to attempt to reply to you in the original language i started with.

You sir only like to do one thing. And thats to put people down. You enjoy telling people that their plans are stupid and flawed, you make assumptions about me and lee and others on this forum to publicise, pull apart and openly mock.

I have read through your historic posts they are all somewhat negative, insulting and frankly it shows unfortunately to me and others you are a very very unhappy individual.

I am not upset with you, i am not insulted by you. I care not what you think of me, what witty insults you can come up with. I find your posts sad, i feel sorry for you and those whom are connected to you.

I also concur with Lee i would also like to see you banned as you have nothing of actual importance or usefulness to add.

LOL, sounds like your upset to me, maybe we need a section for people who actually want to talk about running a business
warts and all, and another section for guys who just need a group hug.

[Dry Clean]

Can't be doing with people so negative all the time, when someone is just trying to realistically better themselves and their business.  We need more people posting about their business plans for 2018, it's good motivation and encouragement for everybody on here is trying to progress year on year.

 Someone put a poll up to get Dry Clean removed, il vote 

Do you actually read what people post ? there's a difference to somebody saying I want to do better next year and somebody
saying this is my business plan and if it doesn't work I'm throwing in the towel.
I think when it comes to major decisions its better to be honest with people than just telling them something for the sake
of being nice.

[Lee Pryor]

Tell us about your business then dry clean.

Website?
Area?
How long you been going?
How many vans and staff.... since you seem to know a lot about that?
Turnover level...... not what you earn or the personal stuff?
Your real name?

Come on, let's see. Stop hiding behind your computer being negative.

[Lee Pryor]

Can't be doing with people so negative all the time, when someone is just trying to realistically better themselves and their business.  We need more people posting about their business plans for 2018, it's good motivation and encouragement for everybody on here is trying to progress year on year.

 Someone put a poll up to get Dry Clean removed, il vote 

Do you actually read what people post ? there's a difference to somebody saying I want to do better next year and somebody
saying this is my business plan and if it doesn't work I'm throwing in the towel.
I think when it comes to major decisions its better to be honest with people than just telling them something for the sake
of being nice.

But this is my point dry clean.

What qualifies you to say his business plan is wrong? What level of success do you have?

If you have 15 van on the road and a million pound turnover having been there and done it then fair enough.

If your a one man band (I think you are) then who are you to say he's wrong.

Your a coward hiding behind a fake name and profile.

Show us, come on.

My name is my name, everyone knows my business name and can see my site. I'm transparent on here, you hide like a coward.

Show us what qualifies you to tell him he's wrong.

[Stoots]

Everyone of us will make mistakes, I don't think  it matters if you have the best plan or the worst, if u want to succeed in your goal the only thing that matter is you don't quit and it will come sooner or later.

Also as we know the pursuit of the goal is much more important than the goal itself, as that's the thing that motivates us to get out and go to work everyday, hope that things will get easier/better for us.

It's a fruitless exercise, as enough is never enough and one goal leads to the next and then we run out of time.

So I don't know what my philosophical point is here lol but maybe its that we enjoy the journey and if we want to have an idiotic plan that everyone thinks is rubbish and can't be done so what, we all have opinions on everyone else's ideas but the only thing that matters is that you have conviction in your own.

So anyone who wants to build a bigger business next year go do it, no one can stop you. Go get it in 2018.

[Dry Clean]

Can't be doing with people so negative all the time, when someone is just trying to realistically better themselves and their business.  We need more people posting about their business plans for 2018, it's good motivation and encouragement for everybody on here is trying to progress year on year.

 Someone put a poll up to get Dry Clean removed, il vote 

Do you actually read what people post ? there's a difference to somebody saying I want to do better next year and somebody
saying this is my business plan and if it doesn't work I'm throwing in the towel.
I think when it comes to major decisions its better to be honest with people than just telling them something for the sake
of being nice.

But this is my point dry clean.

What qualifies you to say his business plan is wrong? What level of success do you have?

If you have 15 van on the road and a million pound turnover having been there and done it then fair enough.

If your a one man band (I think you are) then who are you to say he's wrong.

Your a coward hiding behind a fake name and profile.

Show us, come on.

My name is my name, everyone knows my business name and can see my site. I'm transparent on here, you hide like a coward.

Show us what qualifies you to tell him he's wrong.

LOL.
Go to bed your keeping mummy and daddy up plus you VIP's need at least 8 hours. lol.

[Steve Newres]

Leaving all the other stuff aside, regrettably I believe Marc will fail. I know it won’t make me Mr Popular to say so. It’s because he’s wasting his time on rebranding nonsense. It shows to me that he doesn’t think realistically enough and lives in a dream world. Sorry Marc, but that’s my opinion.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Leaving all the other stuff aside, regrettably I believe Marc will fail. I know it won’t make me Mr Popular to say so. It’s because he’s wasting his time on rebranding nonsense. It shows to me that he doesn’t think realistically enough and lives in a dream world. Sorry Marc, but that’s my opinion.

A strong local presence via branding is very important if he’s wanting to build a big business. Many companies re brand and never look back. Running one or 2 vans it doesn’t matter at all, putting 5 or 10+ on the road, branding is a must and will help build your business quicker than you could imagine.

[Steve Newres]

Leaving all the other stuff aside, regrettably I believe Marc will fail. I know it won’t make me Mr Popular to say so. It’s because he’s wasting his time on rebranding nonsense. It shows to me that he doesn’t think realistically enough and lives in a dream world. Sorry Marc, but that’s my opinion.

A strong local presence via branding is very important if he’s wanting to build a big business. Many companies re brand and never look back. Running one or 2 vans it doesn’t matter at all, putting 5 or 10+ on the road, branding is a must and will help build your business quicker than you could imagine.

Exactly so. Not the sort of thing to be wasting time on at this stage.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

IMO its something he SHOULD be sorting out now. Just shows you how people have different opinions.
I keep our stats on where every new customer of ours has found out about us, you would be very surprised at the results, hence my comments.

[Marc Stock]

Leaving all the other stuff aside, regrettably I believe Marc will fail. I know it won’t make me Mr Popular to say so. It’s because he’s wasting his time on rebranding nonsense. It shows to me that he doesn’t think realistically enough and lives in a dream world. Sorry Marc, but that’s my opinion.

I appreciate and respect your opinion.

I havent decided yet if i am going to keep StockClean or fully rebrand as Bramar.

The local consensus is that to keep StockClean. As thats what i am known as locally. The artist i am working with has come up with some interesting ideas which will be themed across both brands.

Whatever brand i stick with; the art and brand design will be refreshed ready for new flyers which are also in the process of being looked at..

[Scrimble]

why not just call yourself MS window cleaning? or Stock Window Cleaning? Stock clean does not say what you do.

good luck with it, ignore the haters and go for it, I do think you should aim higher though, 100k in 18 months and then 250k by 36 months

[Marc Stock]

why not just call yourself MS window cleaning? or Stock Window Cleaning? Stock clean does not say what you do.

good luck with it, ignore the haters and go for it, I do think you should aim higher though, 100k in 18 months and then 250k by 36 months

Well that would be nice. But i dont want to expand that much that fast. As it is getting to my target of 80k is going to take up alot of my time. Once i get there i will look at what im going to do next.

As far as the negative people on here, you know im really not bothered by them. They will always have the last  reply or an answer. Unfortunately for them they don't help themselves, especially if they hide behind a name no one can quantify or check.

Anyway its  nice day outside..i might pop on the motorbike later.

[nathankaye]

The one thing I think dry clean,,,, aka sean is right about is not blindly following posts but to perhaps challenge the thinking as at times it can be a force of good and help ones to think slightly different or even outside the box. HOWEVER, what I think really people are getting frustrated with is how he chooses to do so, which is why they and myself respond to his negative overall attitude.  There is a difference!
Then whats amusing is when people challenge him, its often dry clean who resorts to belittling tactics first.

However it's also true how another poster wrote that we are all grown men and can choose to simply ignore, if no one fans the flame, the fire will go out. So perhaps the  new yr resolution isnt to start a hate campaign to have him barred but to simply ignore his and others negative/critical comments and dont take the bait.

Hope everybody has a good 2018

[Steve Newres]

IMO its something he SHOULD be sorting out now. Just shows you how people have different opinions.
I keep our stats on where every new customer of ours has found out about us, you would be very surprised at the results, hence my comments.

How does a name change help with stats or canvassing or marketing?

[supernova77]

Marc,

What was the original idea behind setting up a limited company with a different name to your trading name?

Andy

[Dry Clean]

The one thing I think dry clean,,,, aka sean is right about is not blindly following posts but to perhaps challenge the thinking as at times it can be a force of good and help ones to think slightly different or even outside the box. HOWEVER, what I think really people are getting frustrated with is how he chooses to do so, which is why they and myself respond to his negative overall attitude.  There is a difference!
Then whats amusing is when people challenge him, its often dry clean who resorts to belittling tactics first.

However it's also true how another poster wrote that we are all grown men and can choose to simply ignore, if no one fans the flame, the fire will go out. So perhaps the  new yr resolution isnt to start a hate campaign to have him barred but to simply ignore his and others negative/critical comments and dont take the bait.

Hope everybody has a good 2018

Come off it Nathan, coming out with things like hot water melting concrete and getting your water to 60degrees in 8 hours
with a 1kw immersion is going to get you nothing more than a bit of slagging along with some sarcastic humour from me, five years ago the guys on here would have crusified you for saying a lot less.
I remember getting shredded for daring to say I expected an employee to get the same output as me, thing is I didnt throw a hissy fit and start crying looking for the guys to be banned, I simply asked why ?  got the answer back which made sense and learned from it.
Better times, the problem on here now is the slightest bit of criticism ends up in a full blown crying session instead of what it
should be which is a debate.
Just to answer Mr Big's question, theres nobody on here qualified to give anybody business advice including himself that doesnt mean we shouldnt be allowed to have and express an opinion.

[nathankaye]

The one thing I think dry clean,,,, aka sean is right about is not blindly following posts but to perhaps challenge the thinking as at times it can be a force of good and help ones to think slightly different or even outside the box. HOWEVER, what I think really people are getting frustrated with is how he chooses to do so, which is why they and myself respond to his negative overall attitude.  There is a difference!
Then whats amusing is when people challenge him, its often dry clean who resorts to belittling tactics first.

However it's also true how another poster wrote that we are all grown men and can choose to simply ignore, if no one fans the flame, the fire will go out. So perhaps the  new yr resolution isnt to start a hate campaign to have him barred but to simply ignore his and others negative/critical comments and dont take the bait.

Hope everybody has a good 2018

Come off it Nathan, coming out with things like hot water melting concrete and getting your water to 60degrees in 8 hours
with a 1kw immersion is going to get you nothing more than a bit of slagging along with some sarcastic humour from me, five years ago the guys on here would have crusified you for saying a lot less.
I remember getting shredded for daring to say I expected an employee to get the same output as me, thing is I didnt throw a hissy fit and start crying looking for the guys to be banned, I simply asked why ?  got the answer back which made sense and learned from it.
Better times, the problem on here now is the slightest bit of criticism ends up in a full blown crying session instead of what it
should be which is a debate.
Just to answer Mr Big's question, theres nobody on here qualified to give anybody business advice including himself that doesnt mean we shouldnt be allowed to have and express an opinion.

We dont live in the dark ages anymore and to clarify, I dont recall saying I turn my heater on  at midnight and off at 8am  or  that it takes 8 hrs.    Also again to clarify, hot water and not warm water does indeed soften concrete splatter on windows enough for just your finger nail to remove. This I know because I do it and dont just speculate.

Jibing and having a laugh is more than fine.
Have a happy new year dry clean and everyone else as well

[Marc Stock]

Hahhaha.

Crying session...please..

I think i know who you are now Sean..its just dropped, and now i know why you hide who you are.

Honestly i have no interest in Seans opinions, its all a load of whining.

Whats he going on about now? Hot water melting concrete.. Sean you have nothing to do with your time?

[Marc Stock]

Marc,

What was the original idea behind setting up a limited company with a different name to your trading name?

Andy

Well i didnt want to limit my activities to cleaning or window cleaning..so if i went into business in a completely different field later on.i could still operate under bramar without having to change the name.

[Dry Clean]

Hahhaha.

Crying session...please..

I think i know who you are now Sean..its just dropped, and now i know why you hide who you are.

Honestly i have no interest in Seans opinions, its all a load of whining.

Whats he going on about now? Hot water melting concrete.. Sean you have nothing to do with your time?

Marc your one off the biggest wet the beds on here, I made the mistake of forgetting that and replied to your post, it wont
happen again, now dry your eyes and go back to dreaming about being a business man which to be honest will surprise me if
ever it comes to anything more, I wonder will you blame the tax man again.(roll eyes)
The hot water melting concrete was a post Nathan was involved in which if it wasn't all about poor little you on here then you might have made an effort to read it, anyway it was a bit of a laugh which he took in good humour, something a bitter twisted person such as yourself would know nothing about.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Have to say, really feeling the festive love on this one!!

[P @ F]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

[Slacky]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

[lee_dewing]

Good luck to you Marc and Adam.

I would suggest going down the franchising route to eliminate any risk

David Kent.

I was thinking that who is the man?😊
Has a franchise package £1500

I know very little 😁

But when I'm older it would be nice to have 1 or 2 franchisees out there topping me up.

My business plan is to pay back the Mrs. the money borrowed to buy my van😖

Daz. That's impressive turnover, any business advice?
Would like to be a £pound behind you mate.

How's the hot water system going Daz?
Looks like you picked the right winter to get it, certainly getting nippy ⛄

Happy new year everyone ☺

[P @ F]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

[Marc Stock]

Hahhaha.

Crying session...please..

I think i know who you are now Sean..its just dropped, and now i know why you hide who you are.

Honestly i have no interest in Seans opinions, its all a load of whining.

Whats he going on about now? Hot water melting concrete.. Sean you have nothing to do with your time?

Marc your one off the biggest wet the beds on here

Well stop moaning about it man and get me some fresh blankets. 

[Slacky]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

Never agreed with anyone, always argued. Always looking for a 'fight'.

[Dry Clean]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

It's not Ewan, I think thats Just a Slacky underhanded insult but cant be sure as I cant remember who Ewan was either,
I do miss the old Slacky before he became nice, lol.

[Marc Stock]

Anyway.

Sorry about the bickering everyone.

[Dry Clean]

Anyway.

Sorry about the bickering everyone.

Same here Marc, seriously it wasn't my intention to insult you, I thought my comment might have got a debate going as things had got boring on here over the holidays, will try to be more careful about what I post in future.
I honestly hope all goes well for you in the next 18 months.

[Marc Stock]

Anyway.

Sorry about the bickering everyone.

Same here Marc, seriously it wasn't my intention to insult you, I thought my comment might have got a debate going as things had got boring on here over the holidays, will try to be more careful about what I post in future.
I honestly hope all goes well for you in the next 18 months.

Im not insulted Dry Clean.

I dont get offended or insulted.

In between replies today i have been out on a motorbike ride to box hill in the surrey hills had a burger and a chat with the lads...washed the van...done some other bits and bobs its not exactly like im rocking back and forth in front of the computer all day

[Don Kee]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

Never agreed with anyone, always argued. Always looking for a 'fight'.

‘SeanK’ as well I believe, same description apart from I’m pretty sure as SeanK he/she (I’m not sexist in this PC world) stormed off in a huff and came back as the reincarnated ‘Dry Clean’

Anyway, looks like we’re all friends now and holding hands whilst skipping to play on the swings.

It’s just beautiful...

[Frankybadboy]

life is one big risk,take it, see where you go if it doesn't work out, what you lost........nothing

[P @ F]

  , Yey to all mankind !

I will be watching to see how you do though Marc , all the best mate , i may well have to do the same , or employ again soon , which way i go is gonna be a poop or bust job 

[Dry Clean]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

Never agreed with anyone, always argued. Always looking for a 'fight'.

‘SeanK’ as well I believe, same description apart from I’m pretty sure as SeanK he/she (I’m not sexist in this PC world) stormed off in a huff and came back as the reincarnated ‘Dry Clean’

Anyway, looks like we’re all friends now and holding hands whilst skipping to play on the swings.

It’s just beautiful...

Nope storming off in a huff isn't my style, probably because I dont hold grudges, had a few beers and decided it was time to become more focused on work which meant removing all distractions including this place so decided it would be best to delete my account, that novelty soon wore off, lol.
Iv had 4 reincarnations on here but I was never Ewan.

[Slacky]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

It's not Ewan, I think thats Just a Slacky underhanded insult but cant be sure as I cant remember who Ewan was either,
I do miss the old Slacky before he became nice, lol.

We all change, given time. One day you will too Ewan.

[Dry Clean]

So come on then , who was Dryclean/Sean , it seems to be a mystery to me ?

Ewan.

I do remember a Ewan , only a little though , so im still none the wiser .......Whateeedoo then 

It's not Ewan, I think thats Just a Slacky underhanded insult but cant be sure as I cant remember who Ewan was either,
I do miss the old Slacky before he became nice, lol.

We all change, given time. One day you will too Ewan.

People dont change I was being sarcastic, your a guy who's been banned on here more times than anybody else
for arguing, not agreeing and fighting and yet your calling me Ewan, you might as well have said I used go under the name
of Matt Bateman,lol,
Same old arrogant Slacky. lol.

[Marc Stock]

This is like one of those really large family dinners you get this time of year isnt it?

[Slacky]

you might as well have said I used go under the name
of Matt Bateman,lol,

Many people have.

[AuRavelling79]

Well what fun everyone has had around the Xmas dinner table.

Now I'm back from my little jaunts and have opened up CIU I see much fun has been had with the swinging of the handbags. Sadly a couple of black eyes and bruised feelings.

One or two members seems to have put lead weights in their handbags and that is not a nice thing to do in the playground and so here is a list of those who are on a "final warning" to please be less abrasive and to try to be more helpful.

DRY CLEAN

That is the end of the present list. There are a couple of others who were good contenders but hopefully their names will not go on "ze list" just yet.

 

[Marc Stock]

Does that mean Dry Clean isnt getting any of the leftover yorkies? 

[Dry Clean]

Does that mean Dry Clean isnt getting any of the leftover yorkies? 

Worse that that, its means I will only be getting a lump of coal from Santa next year.

[Marc Stock]

, Yey to all mankind !

I will be watching to see how you do though Marc , all the best mate , i may well have to do the same , or employ again soon , which way i go is gonna be a poop or bust job 

Well this is it isnt it.

At the end of the day once i have enough work to pay someone a wage to do the physical work, it frees up my time to consider other business avenues.

To have a few window cleaning vans going isnt just what im looking at. The idea is to get the business ticking over making a small profit and also start something else and then something else etc.  All run by Bramar Ltd under various trading names appropriate to each type of business.

So StockClean will be cleaning related stuff.

I might buy some burger vans and have Bramar Ltd trading as the munch shack or whatever.

Im also interested in buying and selling motorcycles..again using a trading name through Bramar Ltd.

Or i might just call it Bramar window cleaning and Bramar burgers etc..

Who knows.  The point is i am near the end of window cleaning and this is my last push to make it work so i can do other ventures. If not ill sell up and forget the window cleaning and do those other things

[Dry Clean]

, Yey to all mankind !

I will be watching to see how you do though Marc , all the best mate , i may well have to do the same , or employ again soon , which way i go is gonna be a poop or bust job 

Well this is it isnt it.

At the end of the day once i have enough work to pay someone a wage to do the physical work, it frees up my time to consider other business avenues.

To have a few window cleaning vans going isnt just what im looking at. The idea is to get the business ticking over making a small profit and also start something else and then something else etc.  All run by Bramar Ltd under various trading names appropriate to each type of business.

So StockClean will be cleaning related stuff.

I might buy some burger vans and have Bramar Ltd trading as the munch shack or whatever.

Im also interested in buying and selling motorcycles..again using a trading name through Bramar Ltd.

Or i might just call it Bramar window cleaning and Bramar burgers etc..

Who knows.  The point is i am near the end of window cleaning and this is my last push to make it work so i can do other ventures. If not ill sell up and forget the window cleaning and do those other things

Marc your overestimating how much extra money one employee will get you and underestimating what overloading yourself
with work will do to your moral and even health.
You would be better to up your workload now to an acceptable level and then put the extra cash into property or similar.

[Tom-01]

, Yey to all mankind !

I will be watching to see how you do though Marc , all the best mate , i may well have to do the same , or employ again soon , which way i go is gonna be a poop or bust job 

Well this is it isnt it.

At the end of the day once i have enough work to pay someone a wage to do the physical work, it frees up my time to consider other business avenues.

To have a few window cleaning vans going isnt just what im looking at. The idea is to get the business ticking over making a small profit and also start something else and then something else etc.  All run by Bramar Ltd under various trading names appropriate to each type of business.

So StockClean will be cleaning related stuff.

I might buy some burger vans and have Bramar Ltd trading as the munch shack or whatever.

Im also interested in buying and selling motorcycles..again using a trading name through Bramar Ltd.

Or i might just call it Bramar window cleaning and Bramar burgers etc..

Who knows.  The point is i am near the end of window cleaning and this is my last push to make it work so i can do other ventures. If not ill sell up and forget the window cleaning and do those other things

What happens on a Tuesday morning when your employed window cleaner calls in sick and is likely to be off for a couple of days.. the burger munch guy has split up with his Missus so needs time off and you have a viewing arranged for 10:30 that morning for the Ducati?

Yes its a bit OTT, however at the moment you are sick of window cleaning but have a 15 month plan to double its output, also thinking of multiple other businesses (nothing wrong with various revenue streams) but have already tried engineering which didn't work so went back to window cleaning...

A bit of clarity and a lot of focus are needed really and you need to learn to enjoy your window cleaning for it to be able to progress, otherwise always in the back of your mind is the thought of 'oh well if it doesn't work I'll jack it in again'.

It's good to get your brand sorted, but get it done asap and concentrate on getting the work in - but you need to enjoy it!

[Marc Stock]

Good points. All valid.

Well hopefully i will get some joy back with the window cleaning. And all good scenarios tom. 

I am for the time being just concentrating on the window cleaning. That is my main focus now for 15months I have to say i am getting some joy back by being more...active in growing the business..it is interesting how just deciding to push forward how it seems to motivate you and renew your joy.

But i am always looking for new challenges and in a way everything in my plan is a new challenge.

Dry Clean...you know you do have valid points to make and that is a good example of a good opinion so i thank you for that.

Re: the engineering,. Its going ok but thats a long long road in investment in machines and well...its paying for itself..just. but thats really my father's thing. We were hoping to work together, and we still  do..But we need another 100k in investment for machines and that sort of money takes time to get as we are not borrowing money for.it


 

[Stoots]

, Yey to all mankind !

I will be watching to see how you do though Marc , all the best mate , i may well have to do the same , or employ again soon , which way i go is gonna be a poop or bust job 

Well this is it isnt it.

At the end of the day once i have enough work to pay someone a wage to do the physical work, it frees up my time to consider other business avenues.

To have a few window cleaning vans going isnt just what im looking at. The idea is to get the business ticking over making a small profit and also start something else and then something else etc.  All run by Bramar Ltd under various trading names appropriate to each type of business.

So StockClean will be cleaning related stuff.

I might buy some burger vans and have Bramar Ltd trading as the munch shack or whatever.

Im also interested in buying and selling motorcycles..again using a trading name through Bramar Ltd.

Or i might just call it Bramar window cleaning and Bramar burgers etc..

Who knows.  The point is i am near the end of window cleaning and this is my last push to make it work so i can do other ventures. If not ill sell up and forget the window cleaning and do those other things

This is a good post mark, and the reason I want to grow a bit.

I don't think I want a massive window business, I think it would be a logistical nightmare managing thousands of customers with payments etc. It can be frustrating as a sole trader with 300 custys , to have thousands must be really hard work.

The vat threshold with a couple of employees would suffice, there's more things out there than window cleaning and it would be good to explore other business ideas.

Having said that I might decide to grow a larger business than that.

I don't like to think too far ahead, next step is vat threshold then look at it again and go for the next target whatever that may be.

[Marc Stock]

Bit by bit.

Small targets. Its tempting to think ill do this then that and then from that ill have all this to do that with etc.

Head runs away with itself. Often for me.

You know i have beaten depression, survived bankruptcy, built up a window cleaning business from.scratch twice...

So. Im not that much of a wet blanket 

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Out of interest.. what bike do you ride?

[Dry Clean]

Good points. All valid.

Well hopefully i will get some joy back with the window cleaning. And all good scenarios tom. 

I am for the time being just concentrating on the window cleaning. That is my main focus now for 15months I have to say i am getting some joy back by being more...active in growing the business..it is interesting how just deciding to push forward how it seems to motivate you and renew your joy.

But i am always looking for new challenges and in a way everything in my plan is a new challenge.

Dry Clean...you know you do have valid points to make and that is a good example of a good opinion so i thank you for that.

Re: the engineering,. Its going ok but thats a long long road in investment in machines and well...its paying for itself..just. but thats really my father's thing. We were hoping to work together, and we still  do..But we need another 100k in investment for machines and that sort of money takes time to get as we are not borrowing money for.it

Was almost 30 years in the engineering game, are you into the sheet metal work side of things or is it more to do with CNC machining, lathes, mills, drilling machines and so on ?
Your right about the starting up costs, the price of the eqipment is scary.

[Marc Stock]

Predominantly CNC milling on HAAS machine centres. And turning on our automated bar fed lathes.

We can also do multi axis, 3D,  and high quantity manufacturing, we mill anything from aircraft grade Stainless Steel billet and Aluminium and specialise specifically in carbon fiber machining and titanium.

Whats annoying is there are engineering companies charging £25 an hour for this sort of work.. its very frustrating

[Marc Stock]

Out of interest.. what bike do you ride?

Nothing special at the moment. Im on my CBT i have a 125cc lexmoto venom to get some no claims bonus on L plates.  Done 3k miles on it now though and bought it in July after passing my CBT.

Got my theory test in January and will be doing my direct acess as soon as possible after that.

As far as bikes go once i pass, im looking at Either a GSX 650F or an SV650s or a VFR 750/ 800 something like that.

Dream bike? MV Augusta F3 800

[P @ F]

FS1E for me every time 

[P @ F]

Gotta have a micron zorst though , and a rebore to 65 

[Marc Stock]

Tell you what..they go for silly money if you  find a good one.

[P @ F]

My mate had an absolute minter back in the day , all powder coated , the rebore and micron , would like to have that now !

I had a TS50X with bent out redes or whatever they were called , I was well happy to yomp along at 43 until my grin was wiped off my face as he pi55ed past at 58+ , I'm chucklin right now     

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Out of interest.. what bike do you ride?

Nothing special at the moment. Im on my CBT i have a 125cc lexmoto venom to get some no claims bonus on L plates.  Done 3k miles on it now though and bought it in July after passing my CBT.

Got my theory test in January and will be doing my direct acess as soon as possible after that.

As far as bikes go once i pass, im looking at Either a GSX 650F or an SV650s or a VFR 750/ 800 something like that.

Dream bike? MV Augusta F3 800

You can have a lot of fun on a 125. I had a brand new SV650s when they first came out- ok for the price and for pottering but the build budget shows when you push it, also a bit limp compared to an inline 4. VFR would be a better introduction to something bigger IMO.
I've had literally allsorts over the years, used to compete in my late teens/early twenties but eventually injuries and economics put an end to that.
I'm currently looking for an old-school stoker, RGV, TZR, RS250 etc but keep changing my mind and going the other way to a trail/enduro!!

P&F- Those were the days.. AR50 with 80 kit on + micron pipe, racing reeds etc!! LOL

[P @ F]

Our mate had the AR50 but would never spend his money on the 80 upgrade , I wonder how much time we wasted waiting for him !
Another had the DT50 , he spent most of his time pushing that badboy 

[Johnny B]

I had a brand new Honda CB50J back in '79 when I was a teenager. It looked 'sporty' but it was so slow it was scary! Got rear ended on it when pulling away at the lights!

John

[Marc Stock]

Yeah you know i have always wanted a motorcycle. Mum and dad prevented me from getting one 3 times throughout my life.

37 years old on a 125cc bike on L plates its hilarious really. Feel like a teenager again.

Whats really suprised me is how friendly the motorcycle community are. Really very enjoyable, plus the feeling you get even on a 125 is just awesome.  Tell you what its made me a much better driver, and the 1st time you get on a motorbike 30 mph feels like 90mph.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

See which ones I can recall

MT5, MTX50, MBX50,SS-50
DT50, RD50, FS1E,
TS50ER, X1-50, RG50(rare),AP50
AR50, KE50......

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Yeah you know i have always wanted a motorcycle. Mum and dad prevented me from getting one 3 times throughout my life.

37 years old on a 125cc bike on L plates its hilarious really. Feel like a teenager again.

Whats really suprised me is how friendly the motorcycle community are. Really very enjoyable, plus the feeling you get even on a 125 is just awesome.  Tell you what its made me a much better driver, and the 1st time you get on a motorbike 30 mph feels like 90mph.

I used to race 125's and although a road going 125 and a pure race produced engine are like night and day.. you still wouldn't believe just how much power and how fast a 125 can be! Power to weight ratio plays a big part also.

[Dry Clean]

Well what fun everyone has had around the Xmas dinner table.

Now I'm back from my little jaunts and have opened up CIU I see much fun has been had with the swinging of the handbags. Sadly a couple of black eyes and bruised feelings.

One or two members seems to have put lead weights in their handbags and that is not a nice thing to do in the playground and so here is a list of those who are on a "final warning" to please be less abrasive and to try to be more helpful.

DRY CLEAN

That is the end of the present list. There are a couple of others who were good contenders but hopefully their names will not go on "ze list" just yet.

 

(roll eyes)
I think Iv calmed down enough to reply to this,
Gold I have no problem accepting a warning over this issue and adjusting my behaviour but  once again when its come to
your moderating on here its one rule for one and  another rule for others.
Its seems its now alright to attack a persons charactor and verbally abuse on here as long as you agree with them therefore
if your unable to moderate with fairness and impartiality maybe its time you give the job to somebody who can.

[AuRavelling79]

More than one mod on here Dry Clean. Apply to admin any who want it.

Maybe go back and read your own posts and reflect on them rather than worry about others.

[Og]

I had a Simpson that I pushed more than rode.
Then a rd50 that was indestructible
Xs 250 with 6 gears. Why??
Cb5504k great if you liked traveling in a straight line.

[Dry Clean]

More than one mod on here Dry Clean. Apply to admin any who want it.

Maybe go back and read your own posts and reflect on them rather than worry about others.

I know my posts where wrong Gold which is why I'm happy to accept the warning but I know there are others involved who where equally as bad and by not giving them the same treatment as you have given me you are justifing what they have posted,
some of the guys involved have even liked your post.
You cant keep using the fact that anybody can apply to be a moderator as an excuse, I will reflect and try to adjust my behaviour
but you certainly need to do the same when it comes to your moderating.
This will be my last word on this subject as I'm trying to be less argumentative, have a happy and prosperous new year

[AuRavelling79]

The problem is Dryclean is that we don't always know what goes on behind the scenes.

Sometimes the mods will receive several reports to moderator about a certain poster in a relatively short space of time. We don't always act upon those reports immediately (and if it is a solitary report maybe not at all) but if we find there is a pattern of behaviour then we may choose to do something about it.

If I am first on the scene I will make a decision based on forum rules, how other members appear to view the situation, how I view the situation and perhaps most importantly, how I believe forum admin would want the situation handled.

If another mod has got there first I will almost invariably accept his/her decision as one of a range of options  that might have been applied.

Often it is a fine line. And I/we won't please everybody everytime (or maybe anybody any time!) but I am fairly comfortable in the way I operate and interact.

Best wishes

[Steve Newres]

More than one mod on here Dry Clean. Apply to admin any who want it.

Maybe go back and read your own posts and reflect on them rather than worry about others.

I think you’re a pretty decent mod on the whole, but I find myself in agreement with the lack of fairness. Until Admin stepped in and banned temporarily the worst offender under Two IDs on here, he got away with the most foul personal abuse that on two occasions was more than I was willing to put up with. Dry Clean was a little bit mean to the OP, but in truth the OP needs some truths pointing out to him.

[Slacky]

My ol’ Granny always used to say ‘it’s not what you say, but how you say it’.

I’ve carried this little gem close to my heart throughout my adult years.

It has proved to be a distinctly profound piece of advice and has helped me make many friends and saved many tortured souls.

[AuRavelling79]

One person's "little bit mean" is another person's "foul abuse" and yet another's "plain  nastiness." No one was banned. Just a warning put up. But they might have been. Who knows in a given situation?

Sometimes Admin. steps in when a mod is just not around to see the final escalation of a situation.

If Admin steps in and bans more quickly than I would have liked I bow to their authority and wider view. I then look at what caused the situation and try to adapt for when the next situation arises.

I'm not too experienced to learn.

[Steve Newres]

My ol’ Granny always used to say ‘it’s not what you say, but how you say it’.

I’ve carried this little gem close to my heart throughout my adult years.

It has proved to be a distinctly profound piece of advice and has helped me make many friends and saved many tortured souls.

I think that’s a fair point. Dry Clean is not always tactful to put it mildly.

[Soupy]

My ol’ Granny always used to say ‘it’s not what you say, but how you say it’.

I’ve carried this little gem close to my heart throughout my adult years.

It has proved to be a distinctly profound piece of advice and has helped me make many friends and saved many tortured souls.

You? Many friends?

Doubt it.

[Dry Clean]

My ol’ Granny always used to say ‘it’s not what you say, but how you say it’.

I’ve carried this little gem close to my heart throughout my adult years.

It has proved to be a distinctly profound piece of advice and has helped me make many friends and saved many tortured souls.

I think that’s a fair point. Dry Clean is not always tactful to put it mildly.

Totally agree buts that's no excuse, I could just as well say most of my replies where in retaliation for the abuse I received
but that's also no excuse, there's also a few guys on here who could do with reading John 8- 7.

[Slacky]

My ol’ Granny always used to say ‘it’s not what you say, but how you say it’.

I’ve carried this little gem close to my heart throughout my adult years.

It has proved to be a distinctly profound piece of advice and has helped me make many friends and saved many tortured souls.

You? Many friends?

Doubt it.

Despite what you say my friend I suspect you’re a kindly chap. May God bless you my son.

[Marc Stock]

Listen guys.

I am really not bothered at all. I expressed my opinions on the matter too. Dry Clean is entitled to his opinions and whilst i may not agree perhaps with the way he sometimes delivers his posts  im certainly not emotionally damaged over the situation.

I gave as much back,(with a bit of humour) as he gave to me.

Behind the keyboard its difficult to get a correct judement of context.

Personally i think Dry Clean doesn't help himself, he could use more tact...yes..he could be less aggressive in his nature...yes..does he alienate  himself a little because of it...probably..but thats his problem.

Do i dislike Dry Clean? No.

Do i like Dry Clean? No.

Do i wish to see him banned? Of course not. I dont want to see anyone banned.

At the end of the day this has been one good old conversation. Everyone has had an input, in my opinion if someone has made an effort to type something then its a valid contribution, even if i find it a little abrasive or offensive.

Now Dry Clean. I have been sitting i  these wet blankets now for a while are you going to change them or what?
 

[AuRavelling79]

So everyone has shaken hands, yes? Kissed and made up? All resolved to be an honest and where possible, positive contributor to CIU throughout 2018. Ready to tolerate more crappy moderating when it occurs? Happy to remember what Slacky's granny said?

Lovely. I'm going to draw a line under this thread and thank you for your input.