[Alex Gardiner]

Tonyoliver it is a nice system. What you paid for it and whether you are happy with it is purely subjective to you. You have probably made your money back by now anyway so it doesn't matter too much.

Ionics are often not as expensive as they first appear to be. In my mind there are two serious system contenders - Ionics and Purefreedom (or Exel systems which have been designed by the same bloke at the same price).

Prices:
Ionics Pro-5 (600 litre) = £4115 + Fitting Kit £350 + Fitting Labour £300 + Speedliner £600 total = £5365 + VAT = £6303 so about £1100 more than you paid, Tony.

Purefreedom (650 litre) = £1895 (fitted inc VAT + protectakote floor) saving you about £3300, and about £4400 cheaper than the Ionics system.

In my mind your system looks a lot tougher than the purefreedom type of system. It has the advantage of twin tanks for stability and the framework looks like it would actually contain the tanks in the event of an impact.

With the above competition and choice in systems you can see why we do not supply fitted systems!

[[GQC] Tim]

The metal of the tank cage compared to the purefreedom one looks very feeble. The purefreedom cages are very very solid, I can know because I have one.

[Andrew McCann]

Errr  Alex

I think you will find that it is me (Exel Systems) that does the 40 inch RO systems for £1895.00 

In my opinion our cages are a lot tougher as well. I subcontract the fitting of the tanks to the vans to a company who have been in business for around 40 years. They are commercial vehicle and trailer dealers/repairers so they know their business and make sure the tanks are fitted very safely.

I can still make a profit (Not enough)  at this price as well.

Andrew

[[GQC] Tim]

That IS a seriously good price, unbeatable I would say.

[jaykie]

id have to say my purefreedom system looks solid and has more bolts down one side then the whole of that system.

Chris

[Alex Gardiner]

Errr  Alex

I think you will find that it is me (Exel Systems) that does the 40 inch RO systems for £1895.00 

In my opinion our cages are a lot tougher as well. I subcontract the fitting of the tanks to the vans to a company who have been in business for around 40 years. They are commercial vehicle and trailer dealers/repairers so they know their business and make sure the tanks are fitted very safely.

I can still make a profit (Not enough)  at this price as well.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

My mistake, I must have got confused with www.purefreedomsystems.co.uk and www.purefreedom.co.uk !!

Having looked at both cages the Outreach one above in my opinion looks a lot tougher than any of the purefreedom ones I have seen. It uses box-work stainless steel as opposed to angle iron as shown below on a typical purefreedom system.



Also the systems below have a very sparse metal cage:





Maybe your latest Exel system ones are better made?



I really do not know how you (or purefreedom) can sell and fit them at such a low price. The system itself represents incredible value for money 

[Alex Gardiner]

am i allowed to order my SL2 a couple of days early alex? or is it still wednesday mate??

You have mail

[Steve CM]

i don't mate. forward it to steve@clearmagic.co.uk please

[AJ]

Tony,my surname is oliver,wish i had used that name for the buisness,
van looks great,wish you well.

me too!

[Wayne Thomas]

The first pure freedom pic from Alex shows a frame constructed of angle iron welded together which isn't half the strength of box section framework and flat bar (in the centre) which has the bare minimum strength possible.  Also, if the tank develops a serious split/leak and needs replacing, the whole frame has to be unbolted just to replace the tank. IMO that is a very poorly thought out  design, fabricated as a professional system when it comes to user practicality.

[David Slater]

I've got mixed feelings about all this 'safety'

Safety is indeed important. But is an Ionics actually 'safe' ?

Suppose seat belts were 'safe' upto 30mph but not tested beyond that speed. Would they really be 'safe' ?

Ionics have indeed made steps in the right direction, but the forces involved with stopping a ton of water (or a tonne of anything!) are huge!

OK, so Ionics are tested to a level....is that a level that would be recognised by the government? Obviously not.

There is an argument that you are lulling purchasers into a false sense of security by testing to a very low standard (30mph being one of the lowest speed restrictions in the UK) and there is a very real possibility that those same vehicles will venture onto 40mph or 60mph or even 70mph road/motorways.....there is nothing on the Ionics website that suggests you SHOULD NOT travel on roads above 30 mph?

So, I would suggest that Ionics limit their vehicles to 30mph (as in the case of heavy goods vehicles which are restricted to 56mph) or point out to customers that their systems are ONLY tested to meet a crash at 30mph.

In either case, this is not a government standard and is merely a 'selling tactic' by a company.

I would welcome a clear guidline from the government on this issue.

If my vehicle is allowed to travel at 70mph then my 'fixed load' should be tested to meet a crash at 70mph....but as we all know, we'd be travelling around in 7.5 tonne trucks to meet this spec.

....whether we owned an Ionics or a DIY sert-up.

 



   

 

[Nathanael Jones]

Very well said David!

[NWH]

It would be more interesting to see the results after 70mph,it`s hard to beleive it would stay in place at that speed but in real terms 60-70mph would give you the true answer.

[Roger Slater]

All these new setups look extremley impressive, shiny and glitsy but i cant help thinking why o why did you pay that much for a system when you can build your own for half that price that will do the same job as the nice new and shiny ones do. How many of your customers domestic or commercial ask to see inside your van, Non of mine ever have.

I have a 1000 litre caged IBC in the back of my Renault Master held down with 4 x 10 ton ratchet straps with eight high tensile steel brackets bolted  into the chassis. All this hype about safety is just that (HYPE) We should be under no illusion that if crashed at 70mph with 1 ton or even half a ton of water in the back then its safe to say we will definatley be meeting our maker. I only ever fill the tank to half of that capacity except when doing some of the larger commercial work, but still think it's very risky.

If i had lots of money I would love to crash test my van at 70mph with a full tank to see the outcome. I'm guessing the tank would catapult or rupture through the bulk head and out the front windscreen taking the crash test dummy with it.

My van is the only vehicle i have so when im not window cleaning I decant the leftover water from the days work back into another IBC I have in the garage, it only takes five minutes with a hippo pump.

Much safer and saves money on fuel.

[DaveG]

I better get some stronger bungees then

[elite mike]

I better get some stronger bungees then

lol

[David Slater]

I've got mixed feelings about all this 'safety'

Safety is indeed important. But is an Ionics actually 'safe' ?

Suppose seat belts were 'safe' upto 30mph but not tested beyond that speed. Would they really be 'safe' ?

Ionics have indeed made steps in the right direction, but the forces involved with stopping a ton of water (or a tonne of anything!) are huge!

OK, so Ionics are tested to a level....is that a level that would be recognised by the government? Obviously not.

There is an argument that you are lulling purchasers into a false sense of security by testing to a very low standard (30mph being one of the lowest speed restrictions in the UK) and there is a very real possibility that those same vehicles will venture onto 40mph or 60mph or even 70mph road/motorways.....there is nothing on the Ionics website that suggests you SHOULD NOT travel on roads above 30 mph?

So, I would suggest that Ionics limit their vehicles to 30mph (as in the case of heavy goods vehicles which are restricted to 56mph) or point out to customers that their systems are ONLY tested to meet a crash at 30mph.

In either case, this is not a government standard and is merely a 'selling tactic' by a company.

I would welcome a clear guidline from the government on this issue.

If my vehicle is allowed to travel at 70mph then my 'fixed load' should be tested to meet a crash at 70mph....but as we all know, we'd be travelling around in 7.5 tonne trucks to meet this spec.

....whether we owned an Ionics or a DIY sert-up.

 



   

 

But is an Ionics actually 'safe' ? 

Your statement is out of context within what Ionics have done, within it then the answer to your question is yes.

Politicians and the whole government are not the experts on loads of things including this, why do people automatically assume they are.

Would you prefer your local MP to do the actual crash test?  Or an organisation that deals with this everyday?

Of course it is a selling point; you will be paying for peace of mind that’s the value in the clamps.

Ewan,

Your local MP does not test your system.

This is contracted via central government (mandarins) and more so these days through European Union Directives to groups/organistions/ professional bodies
with an interest in the field.
The process is very long and laborious and may take several years to come to fruition.

What Ionics has achieved is laudable. But is it an accepted industry standard? NO.

To stop a tonne of water safely would require us to use 7.5tonne vehicles.

This is not a hypothetical question. This is the basic fundamental law of physics.
I know this for a fact. I will state quite clearly right now, your 'van' will kill you if you hit an object traveling above 30mph whether that be an Ionics system or DIY system....if it has water on board. 

I am NOT a government mandarin or an agent for a 7.5 tonne truck manufacturer.

Our 'vans' will NOT stop a tonne of water killing us.

If (and when) the government issue clear directives on how we should transport our water "safely" I shall be the first to comply with the the new laws/directives.

I embrace change and new legislation. It is a challenge to be conquered, in the process, my life and that of my staff become valued. I hope the government DO set down new regulations for the benefit of me and my staff.


I shall welcome them with open arms.

[Jago]

Nice Fan fella
hope it all goes well
and I love the sign writing as it is soooooo simple and to the point LOVE IT
Looks well cool

[David Slater]

Hello David Slater, Ionic’s have reached a standard and it is recognised. Maybe not by whom you choose it to be.

You still miss the point that they have been tested up to 30 mph, there no point in discussing above this figure as that is beyond the purpose of what they have achieved.

You come across as being responsible for your employees and yourself, but you seem to use the law on this matter as a get out clause.

I’m not judging you or questioning your character as you say you are not breaking any laws and you have you staff safety as a priority. But Ionic has certainly given those people with staff something to consider now they offer this guarantee with the clamps.

I don’t directly employ, but I do sub contract occasionally, so I don’t have this problem to deal with. If I do employ I think I would prefer the Ionic system purely a decision based on safety.

 

Ewan,

You have clearly highlighted the issue.

Ionics have developed a system which is crash tested up to 30mph.

Anyone using an Ionics system (on the grounds of safety) should now limit their vehicles to 30mph as this is the 'tested limit' of their safe load....I wonder how many Ionics users do this?

Indeed, there could be case to be argued that if an Ionics system was involved in a collision above 30mph then Ionics could be held jointly and severally responsible for not limiting the vehicle when it left them to 30mph on the grounds that it was only tested to that speed.....just like Mercedes and BMW limit their super cars to 155mph for the tyres that are available today.


So anything above 30mph their 'safety' is now null and void?...Is this what Ionics were selling?

Ionics HAVE NOT reached an 'industry standard'...otherwise we would all be required to reach it. Ionics have reached a 'benchmark for the industry' That is to say, they have gone beyond what the industry expects. But this is NOT a law or a government directive.....and would be easily challenged through the courts if it was proposed as a standard. On the grounds that the vehicles should be limited to the 'safe load' crash testing - i.e: 30 mph

...which means your vehicle should be limited to 30mph

Somebody, somewhere, will come up with a solution to this this thorny issue....I doubt it will be Ionics.

Have Ionics come up with the perfect answer? No.



......Not yet.

It will involve the use of a much heavier vehicle 

[Nathanael Jones]

And if that law came into effect, all Ionics vans would have to be limited to 30mph right?