[neil 47]

 I always pre -vac  for 3 reasons

1) It does remove a lot of dry  soil 85%,
I,m sure half the house,s i go to don,t vac.
"oh that,s a lot better"    I,ve only hoovered love  :

2) I like to give pepole value for money, or feel that they have had value, not a quick going over

3) when vac,ing I tend to notice stain,s or marks that I haven,t seen on the audit . I can then bring these to the attention of the customer.
.also begin a porty user it gives me somthing to do while the water is heating up
Neil

[Kinver_Clean]

I do many country properties and I get half a field sometimes.  So much so that after prevaccing etc. when I start rinsing I get a line at the edge of the water run where the mud runs to the edge. This then rinses out on the next pass. Quite often the dump water is brown rather than black.

Trevor

[Steve Weatherley]

The thee reasons I prevac as follows:

1. To remove dry soil. I am dubious that this process removes 85% of soil but still feel that the carpet looks cleaner after this process.

2. Pre vaccing lifts the pile enabling penetration of the pre spray (as previously mentioned by Ken).

3. It gives you the opportunity to inspect the carpet thoroughly to identify all the stains or damage before getting it wet.

I have been cleaning carpets for 2 years and for the first 18 months didn't bother with the pre vac. 6 months ago I started to do it and definately find it works for me.

[Ken Wainwright]

I forgot to mention, as Neil 47 quite rightly mentioned, that the pre-vac is the best and last opportunity to visually inspect EVERY sq. inch of carpet prior to commiting to a chemical process. An invaluable part of the audit/inspection.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[jcbdfa]

i always pre vac with animal hairs and when doing h/s/l and entrances. otherwise it depends on the costing of the job. i never usually pre vac commercials(offices) as they are vacced most evenings. other wise its a judgement call. i find if my vac motors last 3 years they need replacing or the machine is underperforming anyway. recently had 2 vacs replaced with alternative manufacturers at half price of original parts mwith staggering results. i should probably pre groom every job and set the pile after not to mention agitation!!!! instead i dont follow set routines i use JUDGEMENT. to properly clean a carpet following all the reccomended steps every time would not be necessary.

[Ken Wainwright]

With all due respect jc... What you are saying is that you don't work to a standard, but work to a price.

I am 110% certain that the office environment you've mentioned will not be vacuumed well by the cleaning contractor. What will have happened is that they will have done a good job of removing surface litter, that is totally different to the standards promoted within our industry. May I suggest that, if you haven't done it yet, to invest in some of our industries quality training courses such as NCCA, IICRC or Prochem.  And practice what they preach.

If we believe what the media tells us, your judgement approach, although it may appear to be satisfactory on a day to day basis, has led to the catastrophy that the NHS now finds itself in re cleaning and hygene. By working to the highest possible standards we can on carpets, they not only look good/better for it, but have an extended service life too. And what does it cost to vac a carpet properly? From my experiences, a 25000sq ft office cost me about £30. That's not much is it?

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[HolmansUKLTD]

Well said Ken

[mgcleaning]

it's a judgement thing with me too, and judgement always tells me, pre-vac.
maybe I'm one of those saints.

[*paul_moss]

I think this must have been a wind up thread.
There is only one poss answer every time  PRE VAC
END OF STORY.

Paul

[cleaning co]

think there is few people telling porkys on this subject  : more like 85% just hwe

[Chris Bailey]

I did write a bit of an essay for this but when I previewed it I lost it so here's the shortened version..

IMO, its all down to personal pride, being consistant in your methods of cleaning will help ensure you do a good job, gives the customer value for money and the chances of repeat business is greatly improved.

There is room in our industry for all types from splash n dash to top end, we may not like it but then some people won't pay more than £30 to have a carpet cleaned.  We cannot state that we are splash n dash or infact carers of carpets and fine upholstery, only our customer base tells us this, If you are doing more £30 jobs than £300 jobs then you know where you sit in the scheme of things.

I personally take pride in my work and pre-vac every job, regardless of size.

Again, MO

Chris

[jcbdfa]

absolutely
the point is i am a business man not a fanatical cleaner. i have both high end and low end jobs and to make low end jobs that are not obviously dirty more economical i skip this stage. i feel you fanatical pre vaccers if you can get 85% of the soil out with a vacuum are spending too much money on hwe machines and too little money on vacuums. i also feel that the assumption that most daily cleaners dont have the equipment or the skill to vac properly is totally incorrect. many on this forum vac with a dyson. 9 out of 10 customers already do this anyway. many customers also look after their little used machines better than many carpet cleaners who use theirs many times a day. sebos probably release more dust into the air than they extract. buy yourself a rainbow and give your lungs a break.

[Ken Wainwright]

jc... The difference between you and people like me.  You're a business man who removes some soil from a carpet and achieves satisfactory results for most of your customers. Good business practice as #1 (jc..) comes first. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as we do live in a real world.

People like me tend to be tradesmen first and businessmen second. We aim to remove the maximum amount of soil possible from a carpet and work to the highest standards we can. We would call ourselves passionate about our skills. Some may call us fanatical But of one thing there is absolutely no doubt. If you follow Best Practice Procedures as taught by the likes of the NCCA, IICRC, Prochem, Woolsafe et al,  the carpet will be cleaner, stay cleaner longer and have a greater serviceable life expectancy.

With your reference to the office carpet scenario to which I referred in my earlier post, because of the real world time and cost restraints imposed on office cleaning contractors, no matter how good the intent, no matter how good the typical tub type vacuum cleaner, the amount of dry particulate soil removed will never be of an acceptable level to an experienced quality seeking carpet cleaner. THE MOST EFFECTIVE TOOL FOR HIGH PERCENTAGE DRY SOIL REMOVAL ON TYPICAL OFFICE CARPET IS A TWIN MOTOR UPRIGHT VACUUM CLEANER. Tub types have no agitation, an essential element for dry particulate soil removal.

Being the passionate tradesman I am, I go out of my way to teach my residential customers how to vacuum their carpet properly. Why? Because they don't know how to do it. I have NEVER had a new customer who knew how to vac a carpet. When I do it, they are amazed at the difference, frequently thinking that that was all their carpet needed (sometimes they're right too ) So, I would never allow a customer to do the vaccing for me,'cos they're not good enough.

I respect the commercial decision that you have made re the way you clean some of your carpets. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. But of one thing I am certain. No matter who, no matter where. Miss out the pre vac and the results will always be wanting.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Gavin Reardon]

Hi Jc

Im 100% with Ken on this one! well said Ken 

I all so think your crazy    if you think 9 out of 10 carpet cleaners on this board use a Dyson and to prove that to you I have done a poll post on
"what vac you use"  take a look at the results in a day or two and then tell me that 9  out of 10 cc use a dyson. I will bet you not even half use one.

Would I be right in saying you a £20.00 a room man ? 

Also what training do you have in this industry?

Regards Gavin

[jcbdfa]

i have read your post and the reason many people dont use a dyson is because their customers already own one and they like to have something more unusual to give the customer the impression that they are paying for something different. i charge £20+vat for a 2m*5m room (there or thereabouts. i also find the implication that carpet cleaning is a highly skilled job as laughable. i spent 4 years learning a real trade and another six years learning on the job. a few days on a ncca/manufacturers promotion hardly gives you credibility. face it carpet cleaning is a money making exercise. it is an ideal and very lucrative low investment business. with few caveats carpet cleaning is straightforward. i have been cleaning carpets for four years using many systems. the prochem manual explains 90 per cent of the ins and outs>hardly rocket science>

[Gavin Reardon]

HI JC

I have proved you to be the fool you are     with my poll 

Your sort are not welcome on this forum!!

HOW DID I KNOW YOU WERE A £20.00 A ROOM MAN 

GO BACK UNDER THE ROCK YOU CRAWLED OUT OF IDIOT 

[Mike Halliday]

He can't be much of an idiot, he charges £20 PLUS VAT which meens he earns over 58k

 If he is an idiot,  he's a rich one

Mike 

[Doug Holloway]

Gavin,

A little strong I feel.

If you had done a poll on whether the earth was round or flat 400 years ago , then you know who would have won that one!

JC is putting an alternative point of view which although many would not agree with is neverless valid.

All I would say is why do it for £20 when you can do it for £40?

Cheers,

Doug

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

i do pre vac all of my carpets but apart from that i agree with all that you say Jc.

doug that would work out at £4/m a little steep?

[Ken Wainwright]

£4M² isn't steep. A little higher than my charges, but I'll soon be there.

jc... makes some very valid points as a businessman and any success he has achieved are well earned.

Carpet cleaning a highly skilled trade? I'd agree that it's perhaps a little over the top. But skilled? Certainly. As with many trades, apptitude is just as important as skill. If it were to be an unskilled trade, we would all be working to the lowest common denominator and leaving (unvacced ) soaking wet carpets that take a week to dry.

I'd say that carpet cleaning is a skilled trade which requires continuing education in order to develop and hone existing as well as new techniques and knowledge. An appreciation of physics, chemistry and biology is advantageous too. And obviously maths and english from the business side.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken