[stevegunn]

You are always going to get this people perceive that if you charge £75 for a suite you will not get the job so they charge £25 do four a day thats £100 five days a week thats £500 quite a decent living for some people.I actually started 3 years ago doing exactly the same charging low prices but I saw the light if people want a good job done then they are going to have to pay for it.I'm in business to make money I'm not a charity doing jobs for  nothing.

[The Great One]

When I started this post I never envisioned it would get so heated but i guess we all feel the same way when we come across these guys. They give us that want and offer a good, professional service a bad name.

I am on my carpet course tomorrow (4th) and upholstery on the 5th. At least I know I will be offering a professional service.

I wonder if the 'splash 'n dash guys even bother to go on these courses?

It will be those guys that will be splashed all over the 'rouge trader' programs that come on the box...

Thanks for the posts guys, keep 'em coming!

Regards

Martin

[stevegunn]

The other question you have to ask yourself is are these fellas insured?  

[Dave_Lee]

You can only make a reasonable living, pulling in that kind of money if you overheads are low to zero. I went through a period of several years - doing a good job but too frightened of losing clients to charge enough (Even though I was nowhere near the cheapest in the area). I was worried about,when that vac motor, that had been working six months,would break down and how was I going to afford another one. My van was on its last legs, and when it finally gave up I was back to square one using my car. I was fed up disillusioned, but realised I was was as low as I could probably go in this business without giving up all together. Throughout all this I was very busy with work as always - but hardly making any money out of it. Things had to change - that was around 8 years ago. I now make a better living out of it (Still improving) can afford new equipment etc, my enthusiasm is restored, doing more work than ever, and my prices are right and rising. The whole point of all this is - IF you are doing the job right - you can not do it cheap. You can only do it cheap - if you are Not doing it right.
Dave.

[HolmansUKLTD]

Well said Dave

As thoses boys on the bud adverts say

"True" "True"

[poolking]

first things first , its not my business , i am only a mortal cleaner like the rest of you guys . i work on a self employed basis using company machines /vehicle.
i earn 35% of what i clean , average days work is about £220-£250 ,so i get between £75-£105 a day .
the company is vat registered , although we absorb the vat for domestic customers , our commercial work is subject to vat .

i resent the fact that because we are cheap you so called 'proper' cleaners feel you then have a right to slag my work off without even seeing how i clean. how narrow-minded are you lot or are you worried that people are seeing the light and realising that you CAN  have a good quality job doing without having to re-mortgage the house in order to pay for it , therefore reducing your own income at the same time ?.

we have always operated on a long-term profit over short -term gain policy when it comes to our prices and being as about 70% of our work comes through recommendation , i guess this policy works .

as an indicator , in the last 3 months i have had 1 complaint about my own work - that from a woman who said i missed one side of a cushion on her 3 peice suite....... which is a load of tosh as i am far too methodical in my working practices for that to happen  ...... so thats one complaint out of about 450 customers in that period............. not bad for a cowboy eh guys..?  

as for all these courses you lot prattle on about , all you are after is paper qualifications- i got all mine at school and college , and in my lowly opinion there is no better qualification than being time-served tradesmen . simple as that. you CANNOT seriously expect me to believe that someone who goes on a little course , gets a piece of paper then sets up a business as a carpet cleaner is better than someone who has years of experience behind them , cos if you do then you have got to be froma different planet!!. TIME SERVED EXPERIENCE IS BETTER THAN ANY COURSE!!!.

bottom line is that if we are so bad we would have gone under years ago. but we are expanding all the time and you never know , the next area we go into may well be yours!!  

[Ken Wainwright]

I have to admit that I totally disagree with Poolkings' way of conducting his business.

BUT

Non of us here know how he conducts his business. Non of us here know how the work is carried out and to what standards. If I were to presume that his company were to receive very little in the way of complaints or callbacks, who am I to say that he is unprofessional? He is obviously filling a need within the market place. Many of his customers would be unwilling or even unable to afford the sort of prices I  and many others here charge. If, however, his technicians carry out poor quality, un safe work, then any negative criticism is justified. But it is dangerous to make presumptions purely on price. Where should you draw the line? Is someone who charges £400 for a suite a true professional but he who charges £250 a cowboy? Or £150? or £140? 0r £130......

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[poolking]

oh and for your information , our leaflets are printed 'in-house' and distributed by 3 methods:
1- royal mail - although this is expensive per 1000 and in the current climate ,not the best way

2- local papers

3- hand distribution- cost to us is about £25 per 1000 leaflets.

and from the gaffer's perspective , if he has 14 cleaners earning him on average £120 a day gross , then he must be doing something right ..although as you guys have said expenses probably eat a good chunk out of that!!.

we are also fully insured , i believe our liability is about 100k , more than enough to cover any suite/carpet that you say we f*** up on a regular basis  

[Ken Wainwright]

Poolking

Just read your second posting. What I said above still stands, but I feel that you too are now being a little guilty of presumption. You appear to have a realistic appraisal of you and your companies place and role within the market place, and I feel you defend your position admirably and with pride and passion. You have served your time in the industry and have had good, sound initial training at your college. In the NCCA we have a motto: "Training is an investment, not an expense". The products and the treatments that we work on are forever evolving. Dyes, fibres and blends, topical treatments, backings etc. etc. We also have to comply and deal with changing chemistry and equipment, health and safety issues, different techniques and so on. Like others on this and other forums, I have over the years invested £000's in my own training. I'm now at a stage whereby I know enough to realise I don't know enough. And I never will, no matter how many different courses I attend.

May I be so bold as to make a suggestion. You have taken the trouble to seek out this forum, enrol and to make a valuable contribution. Why? I believe that you want to learn even more about our wonderful industry/profession. You could do a lot worse than attend a quality training course. Naturally I feel the NCCA offer the best value for money. But equally valuable are those from the IICRC and Prochem, with several others snapping at their heals. I'm confident that if you take this step, you'll never regret it.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[John_Flynn]

i earn 35% of what i clean , average days work is about £220-£250 ,so i get between £75-£105 a day .

Would it not make sense to be Self-Employed and work for yourself??

Why are you lining another guys pocket with 600 quid a week??

Sorry but am I NOT seeing the point here??

[poolking]

problem is that the company i work for so large , they can easily wipe me out as and when they see fit , time old problem , he has a lot more money than me and he would quite easily run me into the ground by operating in the same area as i would , at a huge loss , just to remove the competition. believe me , i know , a coouple of cleaners have flown the nest previously , and the most that any of them lasted was about 4 months .!!

plus of course that equation can be placed onto any employee in the country.... why assemble a car for ford when they sell it and earn all the profit?? .

re ken , i actually stumbled across the site looking for machines and to pick up tips from you pro's.. and i saw this thread and decided to stick my two penneth worth in - when will i learn  ...

[John_Flynn]

But NOT every client wants to pay Peanuts and get the Monkies, many have been there and know the score!!  

They now want the services of The Organ Grinder.

[poolking]

in that case then i guess you are the man to call

and aren't we ALL evolved from primates , so i guess that makes you as much of a monkey as i am  

[Dave_Lee]

Poolking,
Sorry, but Ive been in this business 24 years and Im still learning. I doubt anyone who knows me would call me narrow minded as I always look for the bigger piture in everything. I get the impression you are greatly influenced by your employer and Im afraid to say, you are probably a real decent guy, but Your comments make you seem narrow minded and I just cant understand how anyone can claim to do the job right, working at the rate of four full houses a day.
Dave.

[poolking]

But NOT every client wants to pay Peanuts and get the Monkies, many have been there and know the score!!  

oh and by the way one of our operatives recently cleaned carpets in Christopher Wreh's house ( footballer , used to play for arsenal a couple of seasons ago ) . so we have even the top clients using our services  

oh and the operative got a 3 quid tip as well!!!!  :

[poolking]

Poolking,
Sorry, but Ive been in this business 24 years and Im still learning. I doubt anyone who knows me would call me narrow minded as I always look for the bigger piture in everything. I get the impression you are greatly influenced by your employer and Im afraid to say, you are probably a real decent guy, but Your comments make you seem narrow minded and I just cant understand how anyone can claim to do the job right, working at the rate of four full houses a day.
Dave.


dave
where did i say i wasn't still learning? i dont believe i am narrowminded at all , in fact i believe that even someone of your great experience in the trade can still pick up tips from people who are just starting out - i know i certainly do!!.

so if person a takes 2 hours to do a job and charges £50 but person b takes 3 hours and charges £150 to do the same job , who is better?

[Ian Gourlay]

What training did you have, Are the jobs close at hand. How many hours do you work a day . what is the equipment. Does the boss pay for adds how long has company been going.
Do you use chemicals

Maybee you are the Easy Jet of Carpet Cleaning

[A_to_Z_Clean]

HI
It is very simple how mr,Poolking is doing this.
14 cleaners no problem no N.I. paid for them , becuse they don't have right to work,foreignes - and they will work for 3.75£/h cash on hand!!!and they harge 25-40 per hour profit 25-3.75=
VAT the same scheme.Work is paid cash in hand no invioces no vat.
I know wath i'm talkin about, I'm polish so i know that kind of "bussines"3 years ago i try to work for "company" like that
And to be clear i don't know mr.Poolking and his company but i know the system!!!
Adam
AtoZ Clean

[Mike_Boxall]

Adam - sorry but the suggestion that his colleagues are illegal immigrants is way out of order

I'd suggest an apology is in order, he has already explained the figures!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi PoolKing

Fair play to you - I think you put across a good argument where others would have bottled out of the discussion long ago!
I'm curious though - have you ever done a recognised carpet cleaning course or do you just rely on your experience? You would be the first carpet cleaner I ever met who didn't think the courses mentioned weren't worth it after actually doing one!
Regards
Mike

[safecleanlakes]

Souldn't we be grateful to all the "cowboys" etc who are out there. Yes, when people see their prices, it makes it harder to justify charging, realistic rates. But when they get fed up of wading thru soggy, shrunken carpets, and upholstery that can be sat on sometime next week, then the message gets across, "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR". I wonder how many repeat customers and referrals these guys get??, but as the saying goes, "You can fool some of the people some of the time".....etc