[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

The reason it doesn't have a heater could be that there is not enough power left to allow one to be used or they may prefer machiners without heaters.

The MPower thing is a bit of red herring, it came after the machine with no heater.

As I said before all portables are a compromise, the Alltec triple vac can only be used as triple vac if the heater is off.

The reasons TM's are better is that you have have high heat, high water pressure and high vacuum all at the same time.

You can still get excellent results with portables although I would never buy one without heat.

Cheers

Doug

[Simon@arenaclean]

The future for portables is reducing the wattage of motors without comprimisng performance... Our machines are running 1500 watt motors, reduce that wattage signifcantly and you're on your  way

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I guess the next machine will have 3 big vac motors of the Jag but then you are getting into a serious electric bill

Shaun

[clinton]

We had the the 4 vac from alltec about ten years ago and that worked on the lower wattage too..

Didnt take off mind

[Simon@arenaclean]

 
The 4 vac Alltec was an absolute monster, far too big and far too heavy. That's why at present we need to compromise. I believe Shaun is getting close, 3 low wattage high performance vacs allowing 3 vacs & pump, heat exchanger on the other cable. The problem is still heat loss over a long solution hose run though assuming you're upto 120C. Once we get here it will getting on for well over £3500 inc, that's getting on for 2nd hand TM money which would be the way I would go.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

If you have a Heat X you can place it anywhere in the pipe line so nearer to the property if you wish, as for a 2nd hand TM for £3500 you usually have to spend and keep spending on them at that market price.

I think the next generation may go into using vac blowers like the Banes but it would need serious modifications Dave Ingram was making one for himself with a slow start and increasing the revs of the blower to add more vac and installing a 400psi pump.

Shaun

[Simon@arenaclean]

It follows that a good inline heater nearer the wand would be more efficent, I was assuming the heat would be on board (like the Ninja) so there would be only 2 cables on the machine. I know little of blowers but I have met Dave, be interesting to know how he is progressing, Ditto TM's. I was just reflecting on prices and how redundant spending a higher than average sum on a portable when what we are trying to do is create a 'portable TM' allowing for lower perfomance between a TM & portable, when a TM fits the bill perfectly. My naivety aside on 2nd hand TM prices.

I only purchased the Airflex Turbo because a TM was not practicle for my commercial customers, noise and access the biggest problems. Moving forward a TM as I get older becomes more appealing, a Prowler will do.

[clinton]

I remember the millenium was based on the old elite(bob slay) a long and heavy machine,more like the first generation of portable van mounted set up..

[Shaun_Ashmore]

If a single plug porti was to be made with the power of a TM and the easy of dismounting from the van I would get one even if it were £6k.

Shaun

[Carpet Dawg]

How far off is a porty to a TM preformance wise??

If the porty has 600psi pump, three vacs and an inline heater (90 degrees) and the TM being a lower end of the market one.

And be honest! lol

[clinton]

Shaun You remember that machine that brian had then the millenium dont you 

[Ian Gourlay]

If you are a carpet Cleaner why do you need a 800psi pump

Why do you need a truck mount to clean a suite

Apart from having water ready to go same applies to average lounge carpets

If its for hard floors would not a second hand industrial pressure washer be better

[Joe H]

If you are a carpet Cleaner why do you need a 800psi pump
Why do you need a truck mount to clean a suite
Apart from having water ready to go same applies to average lounge carpets
If its for hard floors would not a second hand industrial pressure washer be better

What size van do you have Ian?
have you got room for a second hand industrial pressure washer?
Advantages in having one unit that will do the jobs you want it to do ie carpets and hard floors

[Ian Gourlay]

I have a trailer

[Joe H]

I have a trailer

[Joe H]

How far off is a porty to a TM preformance wise??

If the porty has 600psi pump, three vacs and an inline heater (90 degrees) and the TM being a lower end of the market one.

And be honest! lol

In my experience, and I have/had both a 3 vac Scorpion and a 15hp Prowler (and at the same time), the Prowler wins, and so it should as it is twice the price of the Scorpion.
Having said that, the performance of the Scorpion is pretty amazing and I am more then satisfied it is capable of doing exceptional clean in the hands of a good operator.

and I know the heat/no heat discussion will continue to go on re portables, but it is not good for high heat to go through the pump on a portable. On the Prowler, the heat exchanger was AFTER the pump for the same reason.
So its logic (and sensible design), IMO to put the heat maker (anything in excess of say 60degree) after the pump on a portable.
The inline heaters are not efficient at producing high heat at 300psi and above, in a short time and sustaining it. Having an inline heater within say 25' of the wand is probably the best compromise but even so wont match the high heat of a TM.
If you using detergents you need the heat much more then if you using microsplitters or colloidals (MPower/Nemesis), thats my opinion anyway.
What cleaning fluids each of us use, and whether we prefer heat or not (or warm) is up to individuals.

[Simon@arenaclean]

Most manufacture's will put any internal heat system after the pump, Ninja, perfect heat etc. Standard 3KW aside that heat the soulution tank. As I said a portable is a compromise but a powerful tripple vac, good pump and in-line heat nearer the wand is the best we can do at the moments. Very low watt vacs on one cable with heat on the other would work but there is the heat loss on long hose runs. If working with cold water, and you want heat, getting the water temp up before it hits an in-line heater even at 30C would help a lot. I still find regardless of what I use even MS or Nemisis hot water rinsing is preferable to cold, maybe it's all in my mind and it makes no difference, but i'm not convinced;D

Get one of those hot pressure washers we were discussing on the other tread

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

There are good reasons for not putting hot water through pumps as has been stated but there is a very good reason for using hot water, it works better!

The molecules have more energy and therefore move faster, a lot of grease is melted by hotter water, surafce tension is reduced etc etc etc

I like portables with heat as they woerk better, others may prefer in line but as has been stated it is very difficult to actually increase the temperature by much if highish flow rates are required.

Cheers

Doug

[Matt Lindus]

Oh my, what a crock of something. Imagine what shade of red you would go If a friend or family member saw you making a living with this converted bin mans cart.

Its tupperware, but not as we know it. Its a god awfull machine.


Matt

[john martin]

Have they arrived yet ? has anyone tested them or compared to the scorpion .... cant see it being more powerfull , although it is cheaper . The lower ampage draw is more of an issue in the states than with us .... did they even have a scorpion spec ?  As far as i know the original recoil was a three vac two stack with one vac in series .... the recoil xps was three parellel but lower watt two stage for third vac . Scorpion 3-3 in parellel ....
As someone said three of the 6.6 in parellel might be a nice machine ....would wonder how much a 6.6 vac unit will cost to buy/replace  , if its 7.2 money that would put me off ....

A electric blower based portable .... i can barely lift some of those blowers , so blower, pump ,motor would be a two man job to haul around ....although a good reliable machine i'd say .  From my experience three three stages parellel had more airflow than an electric blower machine i tried .... and the cost to make significantly less .