Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: paul alan on July 08, 2018, 07:50:36 pm
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Do you any of you have any kind of sickness/injury insurance?
I have critical illness insurance but dont have anything in place for say a broken leg or serious infection etc. I did look into it but its expensive.
What do you guys have in place in case of being unable to work for an extended period?
I am still trying to work out my future and not leaving out the possibility of simply refining my round and making it easy and well paid, but I would need to having something in place to cover all bases.
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Too expensive IMO, you would be better off putting the money you would spend on the premium each month in to a saving account or other investment. You could then use this if needed if you were laid off for a month or two because of injury.
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I would say have a years worth of bill money in the bank
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Both good answers, but would take a lot of time for me to put that kind of money away. Its something I am working towards anyhow but like I said will take time, especially bringing up 2 little ones costs a bomb.
I am looking for options that would cover me sooner.
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Both good answers, but would take a lot of time for me to put that kind of money away. Its something I am working towards anyhow but like I said will take time, especially bringing up 2 little ones costs a bomb.
I am looking for options that would cover me sooner.
Most things take time to put in place.....
My advice would be to get 10k-15k behind you as an emergency fund.even if it takes you 5 years to get the money saved.....
Meanwhile don't fret....your only young and probably be ok healthwise for many years.....
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A window cleaner I used to work for many years ago always said to me 'get 10k behind you as a financial cushion and you'll be ok'.....
Of course I never heeded his advice at the time.i thought 10k was a dream......but its easily possible if you save over a 5 year period(2k a year).....
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£40 a week for 5 years will get you there.... ;)
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paul ,
yes insurance can be expensive ,i have a accident insurance through the aa it costs me £12 a month .i did have a claim on it 20 yrs ago and ended up with over 20k being paid i was off for around six months with a broken foot .and it did wAS A lifw saver at the time.
have a look at accident insurance as a starter .its a lot cheaper than sickness cover .
i also had critical health cover through avivia that cost £67 a month and covered the mortgage if off sick .i cancelled that one last yre as dont need the cover anymore ,but not to expensive .
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Just out of interest. Can you claim sickness/injury insurance as a business expense?
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Just out of interest. Can you claim sickness/injury insurance as a business expense?
Yes you can
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Similar position to you Paul, keep mulling it over in my mind, stay on my own, grow bigger, keep changing my mind. But I think the best insurance would be to build a bigger business.
Hard though init?
To be honest if push came to shove and I couldn't work for a few years I would claim benefits and go bankrupt. Done both before and survived. Too much worrying we do, and for what really...we are all going to die so why fret.
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I've just had shoulder surgery and can't work for 9 months. First baby due in 10 weeks as well.
I wish I had looked into insurance and sorted something out because I knew I had an issue with my shoulder which would probably require more surgery, alas it did.
I'm fortunate that my wife works for a company with very good maternity benefits.
Also I have a very good full time worker and now someone else starting August who will be doing 3 days a week. We have quite a few big extra jobs through the year, this also helps.
I'm trying to use this time to manage the business so it's not reliant on me working, so I look at it that way rather than forced off the tools as I chose to have the operation and prepared for it. At the moment it's a bit frustrating because I can't drive for another 7 weeks.
I agree with Dazmond that having a good fund behind you helps a lot. But also so does cheap rent and a millionaire brother hey Daz?! ;D
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everyone should try and get at least 3 months bill money put to one side ready to spring into action if needed when your self employed.....
lots of peoples reply to that is (i just couldnt save up that sort of money etc).rubbish.....most of us who work for ourselves could quite easily (if a savings plan is over a long period).
lots of people waste money all the time whether its on cigarettes/booze/paying too much for gas/electric/mobile phone contracts/interest on credit cards etc........
then once you have your 3 months bill money together you can start adding to it to make it 6 months bill money(even if it take 5 years or more)
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I've just had shoulder surgery and can't work for 9 months. First baby due in 10 weeks as well.
I wish I had looked into insurance and sorted something out because I knew I had an issue with my shoulder which would probably require more surgery, alas it did.
I'm fortunate that my wife works for a company with very good maternity benefits.
Also I have a very good full time worker and now someone else starting August who will be doing 3 days a week. We have quite a few big extra jobs through the year, this also helps.
I'm trying to use this time to manage the business so it's not reliant on me working, so I look at it that way rather than forced off the tools as I chose to have the operation and prepared for it. At the moment it's a bit frustrating because I can't drive for another 7 weeks.
I agree with Dazmond that having a good fund behind you helps a lot. But also so does cheap rent and a millionaire brother hey Daz?! ;D
cheap rent helps(and no kids!) but ive never had a penny off my brother (and never would).im not a scrounger..... ;D
good luck with your recovery tom.......a serious shoulder injury is a WFP window cleaners worst nightmare.....
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Similar position to you Paul, keep mulling it over in my mind, stay on my own, grow bigger, keep changing my mind. But I think the best insurance would be to build a bigger business.
Hard though init?
To be honest if push came to shove and I couldn't work for a few years I would claim benefits and go bankrupt. Done both before and survived. Too much worrying we do, and for what really...we are all going to die so why fret.
A Genius way to look at it mate!
I'm looking into a part timer at the minute and see how that goes, like you I just cant make my mind up. Franchise is the end goal though for sure, I think???
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Similar position to you Paul, keep mulling it over in my mind, stay on my own, grow bigger, keep changing my mind. But I think the best insurance would be to build a bigger business.
Hard though init?
To be honest if push came to shove and I couldn't work for a few years I would claim benefits and go bankrupt. Done both before and survived. Too much worrying we do, and for what really...we are all going to die so why fret.
A Genius way to look at it mate!
I'm looking into a part timer at the minute and see how that goes, like you I just cant make my mind up. Franchise is the end goal though for sure, I think???
theres no easy way, tried another lad couple of weeks ago, just wouldnt listen to how i wanted them doing so now looking again!
nightmare trying to find someone decent but cant stand the thought of standing still forever. I find the days pass quicker and generally less boring working with someone as well. When i work on my own im getting too half assed, early finishes etc.. i need the motivation of having staff to keep me pushing.
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I've just had shoulder surgery and can't work for 9 months. First baby due in 10 weeks as well.
I wish I had looked into insurance and sorted something out because I knew I had an issue with my shoulder which would probably require more surgery, alas it did.
I'm fortunate that my wife works for a company with very good maternity benefits.
Also I have a very good full time worker and now someone else starting August who will be doing 3 days a week. We have quite a few big extra jobs through the year, this also helps.
I'm trying to use this time to manage the business so it's not reliant on me working, so I look at it that way rather than forced off the tools as I chose to have the operation and prepared for it. At the moment it's a bit frustrating because I can't drive for another 7 weeks.
I agree with Dazmond that having a good fund behind you helps a lot. But also so does cheap rent and a millionaire brother hey Daz?! ;D
Highly unlikely that an insurance policy would pay out for a pre-existing condition becoming aggravated.
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Similar position to you Paul, keep mulling it over in my mind, stay on my own, grow bigger, keep changing my mind. But I think the best insurance would be to build a bigger business.
Hard though init?
To be honest if push came to shove and I couldn't work for a few years I would claim benefits and go bankrupt. Done both before and survived. Too much worrying we do, and for what really...we are all going to die so why fret.
A Genius way to look at it mate!
I'm looking into a part timer at the minute and see how that goes, like you I just cant make my mind up. Franchise is the end goal though for sure, I think???
theres no easy way, tried another lad couple of weeks ago, just wouldnt listen to how i wanted them doing so now looking again!
nightmare trying to find someone decent but cant stand the thought of standing still forever. I find the days pass quicker and generally less boring working with someone as well. When i work on my own im getting too half assed, early finishes etc.. i need the motivation of having staff to keep me pushing.
I don’t understand why people struggle to get good staff. I’d find it harder to get a duffer.
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Similar position to you Paul, keep mulling it over in my mind, stay on my own, grow bigger, keep changing my mind. But I think the best insurance would be to build a bigger business.
Hard though init?
To be honest if push came to shove and I couldn't work for a few years I would claim benefits and go bankrupt. Done both before and survived. Too much worrying we do, and for what really...we are all going to die so why fret.
A Genius way to look at it mate!
I'm looking into a part timer at the minute and see how that goes, like you I just cant make my mind up. Franchise is the end goal though for sure, I think???
theres no easy way, tried another lad couple of weeks ago, just wouldnt listen to how i wanted them doing so now looking again!
nightmare trying to find someone decent but cant stand the thought of standing still forever. I find the days pass quicker and generally less boring working with someone as well. When i work on my own im getting too half assed, early finishes etc.. i need the motivation of having staff to keep me pushing.
I don’t understand why people struggle to get good staff. I’d find it harder to get a duffer.
Where do you find your staff? What do you look for?
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I've just had shoulder surgery and can't work for 9 months. First baby due in 10 weeks as well.
I wish I had looked into insurance and sorted something out because I knew I had an issue with my shoulder which would probably require more surgery, alas it did.
I'm fortunate that my wife works for a company with very good maternity benefits.
Also I have a very good full time worker and now someone else starting August who will be doing 3 days a week. We have quite a few big extra jobs through the year, this also helps.
I'm trying to use this time to manage the business so it's not reliant on me working, so I look at it that way rather than forced off the tools as I chose to have the operation and prepared for it. At the moment it's a bit frustrating because I can't drive for another 7 weeks.
I agree with Dazmond that having a good fund behind you helps a lot. But also so does cheap rent and a millionaire brother hey Daz?! ;D
Highly unlikely that an insurance policy would pay out for a pre-existing condition becoming aggravated.
to be honest, the first lad i has was great, turned up everyday and did a good job... that great though that after 3 months he decided he wanted to start his own business after id trained him up lol ;D fair play to him...
BUT how do you find good staff that want to stick around thats the problem, anyone can be great for a few months but i want someone for years not months.
I suppose its not easy when you are only offering part time, that only suits a certain number and type of people. I think i would do better if looking for a full timer.
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something doesnt add up.....how come john mart can easily find good staff and get them to turnover 90k a year?while the rest of us fail...miserably..... ::)roll
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something doesnt add up.....how come john mart can easily find good staff and get them to turnover 90k a year?while the rest of us fail...miserably..... ::)roll
Pay decent wages on full time contracts.
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I've just had shoulder surgery and can't work for 9 months. First baby due in 10 weeks as well.
I wish I had looked into insurance and sorted something out because I knew I had an issue with my shoulder which would probably require more surgery, alas it did.
I'm fortunate that my wife works for a company with very good maternity benefits.
Also I have a very good full time worker and now someone else starting August who will be doing 3 days a week. We have quite a few big extra jobs through the year, this also helps.
I'm trying to use this time to manage the business so it's not reliant on me working, so I look at it that way rather than forced off the tools as I chose to have the operation and prepared for it. At the moment it's a bit frustrating because I can't drive for another 7 weeks.
I agree with Dazmond that having a good fund behind you helps a lot. But also so does cheap rent and a millionaire brother hey Daz?! ;D
Highly unlikely that an insurance policy would pay out for a pre-existing condition becoming aggravated.
to be honest, the first lad i has was great, turned up everyday and did a good job... that great though that after 3 months he decided he wanted to start his own business after id trained him up lol ;D fair play to him...
BUT how do you find good staff that want to stick around thats the problem, anyone can be great for a few months but i want someone for years not months.
I suppose its not easy when you are only offering part time, that only suits a certain number and type of people. I think i would do better if looking for a full timer.
I cam to the same conclusion, if you offer full time you have a better chance of finding someone with commitments like kids and a mortgage which will tie them to the job. A part timer couldn't afford those commitments.
How much were you paying Adam? I'm thinking at least £10 ph made up from minimum basic salary with performance based pay. Make them work for a good wage, no sick days, no complaints, all work completed on time then bonus.
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something doesnt add up.....how come john mart can easily find good staff and get them to turnover 90k a year?while the rest of us fail...miserably..... ::)roll
Pay decent wages on full time contracts.
Whats decent wages to you?
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who could stomach 8 hours a day window cleaning though 5 or 6 days a week?i couldnt!(not anymore) ;D ;D ;D
i just about managed 930am-3pm today in this heat(30 mins for lunch) so 5 hours actually window cleaning.....
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who could stomach 8 hours a day window cleaning though 5 or 6 days a week?i couldnt!(not anymore) ;D ;D ;D
i just about managed 930am-3pm today in this heat(30 mins for lunch) so 5 hours actually window cleaning.....
Totally agree , I couldn’t do 8hrs window cleaning + I would run out of water way before that too!
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Thats because you guys have a choice!
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Yeh sod paying a full timer, too much down time.
would prefer part timers with flexible hours.
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Thats because you guys have a choice!
maybe but i probably wouldnt clean any more work than i did today if i worked for someone else.id stretch it out over 8 hours instead! ;D
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something doesnt add up.....how come john mart can easily find good staff and get them to turnover 90k a year?while the rest of us fail...miserably..... ::)roll
Employ Hungarians through one of the Hungarians in Britain websites. Used to be Polish but they have got too big for their boots these days
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Yeh sod paying a full timer, too much down time.
would prefer part timers with flexible hours.
That's why you can't get decent staff.
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I had a mortgage payment protection plan which covered sickness and injury, managed to claim a lot back through PPI claim. Read the small print, I only done it at the time because of my mortgage on my own. I wouldn't do it again, no need to now but I would advise paying in a regular amount somewhere where you won't touch and not touch it unless needed. Handy to have a financial cushion when health or work prevents you earning unless bank of mum and dad can help you out if you're parents are still around or the wife/girlfriend can support you.
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Yeh sod paying a full timer, too much down time.
would prefer part timers with flexible hours.
That's why you can't get decent staff.
Yep i know and i agree with you.
However, i cant turnover 90k per man, half that at a push...
So i think we are fishing in a different pond. Would love to be able to pay a guy 25-30k or more full time and have them turnover 90k, however the reality of my area is that margins are lower, therefore wages have to be lower and downtime etc has to be considered.
In fact if i could get one man to turnover 85k id pay him 30k and retire tomorrow ;D
I think its easy to look at the recent weather with rose tinted glasses on, but i know full well the harsh winter we have just had and the amount of days ive had to have off work. I dont think i could handle the stress of having to pay a full timers wages through last winter.
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Yeh sod paying a full timer, too much down time.
would prefer part timers with flexible hours.
That's why you can't get decent staff.
Yep i know and i agree with you.
However, i cant turnover 90k per man, half that at a push...
So i think we are fishing in a different pond. Would love to be able to pay a guy 25-30k or more full time and have them turnover 90k, however the reality of my area is that margins are lower, therefore wages have to be lower and downtime etc has to be considered.
In fact if i could get one man to turnover 85k id pay him 30k and retire tomorrow ;D
I think its easy to look at the recent weather with rose tinted glasses on, but i know full well the harsh winter we have just had and the amount of days ive had to have off work. I dont think i could handle the stress of having to pay a full timers wages through last winter.
I think much of it is mindset and attitude. In 8 years I doubt we have lost more than 5 days because of the weather. We just plough on regardless.
Re prices. Again, attitude. In general people have more disposable cash in the north. If you can’ average £15 a job and do 20 jobs a day you can pay £26k. If it’s £12 then a bit less.
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bit less than £12 actually :-\ i think my average job price is £11
Yup 20 a day would be £1100 a week, that is of course if hes not on holiday, off sick, rained off and none of the customers try and skip a clean. I just think the reality is much different from what can be done on paper, at least thats my experience with my work. I know you could just plow on but then comes the risk of upsetting customers working in heavy rain and risking doing a poor job in bad winds for example.
I applaud anyone who has domestic window cleaning mastered on a large scale, so far i find it totally frustrating.
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
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Totally agree with you there.
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
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I Belive the vat is included in that 90k which if on your own (sole trader)under vat limit would be like you doing 72k chuck in some good commercial and 8 hour days and there is no reason why it isn't achievable.
It also goes back to property 1 bed flats in the south are starting at 200k a bog standard house £300-£350k.
You only work 5 hours a day because it suits your lifestyle and needs and there is nothing wrong with that if you had a big mortgage or family to support your need to earn more would be different. And your turn over would have to increase.
I'm not knocking you at all peoples lifestyles,outgoings and needs to earn will vary.
To put it in to perspective I would hazard a guess my daughters nursery fees are double your rent up north (they are around 1k a month )add in a large mortgage and people need to charge more and earn more down south.
Still 90k even with the vat in one van is still pretty impressive .
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I think there is too much emphasis on figures here in this thread.
I don't doubt john mart, I think what he is achieving is brill, and hats off to him . I have learnt a lot from his posts and I have been doing this a lot longer { 26 years }
I am not going to post my figures , but I am doing ok . Its just me and my daughter, and I am growing steadily from a push forward through leafleting for the first 5 months of this year. my flyers have my website which people have been nosing at from flyers . this in turn has pushed me higher up on google searches prompting more enquiries . I only wish to grow at 5 new custies a week . but I charge more on first cleans these days .
but here is my point on this thread … instead of concentrating on what looks good on paper. I make sure that every customer I get pays on time without reminders . if they cant I don't call again .I am only interested in quality paying customers. we go to work for money , not chasing idiots and chancers that cant be bothered to pay.
..I never have outstanding money as I have set my boundaries , and this makes all the difference.
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1531461682_smile.jpg)
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.
So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...
You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.
Shrek doesn't live near me either...
Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.
I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.
You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.
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Over 450 properties on rightmove right now in Wakefield that are worth over £150,000 upto 1.7 million.
Are you sure you aren’t targeting the bottom of the market £60k houses?
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1386&insId=1&minPrice=150000&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.
So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...
You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.
Shrek doesn't live near me either...
Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.
I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.
You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.
So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.
So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...
You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.
Shrek doesn't live near me either...
Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.
I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.
You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.
So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?
I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve ::)roll
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Over 450 properties on rightmove right now in Wakefield that are worth over £150,000 upto 1.7 million.
Are you sure you aren’t targeting the bottom of the market £60k houses?
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1386&insId=1&minPrice=150000&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying
450? Wakefield has a population of 325,000 . What kind of percentage is that?
but that's not the issue, it's not all about house price it's about the area in general. The same guys that are cleaning the lower end stuff for a fiver are also cleaning the 200k plus houses for a tenner., why because it's all in the same area. Peole in am area become price conditioned...Apart from a few small villages there's not an expanse of 200k plus propertys across the whole city..which means the prices are lower generally.
Do people just assume that if you not getting £20 a house it's through lack of effort, being a bit thick or clueless? Maybe some of us have tried and tried and still end up banging our heads against the wall price rise because they are just too many window cleaners working far too cheaply which keeps the entire area down.
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.
So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...
You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.
Shrek doesn't live near me either...
Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.
I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.
You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.
So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?
I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve ::)roll
Yeh I didn't get it, I think it was one of them cryptic type posts that people go for when they run out of an answer to the excellent points raised by another.
But it's a pointless debate because I see it how it is for me and john sees it how it is for him.
Until you've walked in anothers shoes anything you say is irrelevant.
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Over 450 properties on rightmove right now in Wakefield that are worth over £150,000 upto 1.7 million.
Are you sure you aren’t targeting the bottom of the market £60k houses?
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1386&insId=1&minPrice=150000&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying
450? Wakefield has a population of 325,000 . What kind of percentage is that?
but that's not the issue, it's not all about house price it's about the area in general. The same guys that are cleaning the lower end stuff for a fiver are also cleaning the 200k plus houses for a tenner., why because it's all in the same area. Peole in am area become price conditioned...Apart from a few small villages there's not an expanse of 200k plus propertys across the whole city..which means the prices are lower generally.
Do people just assume that if you not getting £20 a house it's through lack of effort, being a bit thick or clueless? Maybe some of us have tried and tried and still end up banging our heads against the wall price rise because they are just too many window cleaners working far too cheaply which keeps the entire area down.
Gomo smile and nod mate, there are a few on here who think they discovered and invented window cleaning, one minute
they will be telling you they get the big prices because they offer a better service to people who can afford better the next
they will be splashing and dashing them out in all weathers and to hell with the customer. lol.
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Sorry shrek I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my reply to you my frustration was really aimed towards john mart.
But just for comparison sake
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E61324&insId=2&minPrice=150000&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&areaSizeUnit=sqft&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying
Surrey has a population of 1.1million and almost 25`000 propertys above 150k
Wakefield has a population of 325k and 450 properties above 150k.
The point I am trying to make is that the entire region is top end compared to just a few in and amongst the bottom end hence why the whole region is price conditioned to lower prices.
We all know this and we all know that's why prices are double in one area.
I'm not telling anyone anything new its just frustrating when someone in another area is trying to tell someone else in another how to run a business like the other is somehow just an idiot.
You see it all the time on forums etc, how.much for this fsg...oh £50 then someone else saying £300.
The £50 quid guy is confused because he has tried charging that amount a dozen times but simply can't get it . The 300 quid guy doesn't understand why as he he gets it all day long and just assumes the other guy is a retard.
It's a fairly simple rule of business that prices are dictated by the market and that the % of quotes you get in your market determines the prices you should set .
Like in said above I think some of us live in different worlds and will never get it.
But anyway I'm off to work lol I didn't really intent to get dragged into this one
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Its disposable income rather than the price of property that determines pricing, sometimes it can be easier to get a decent price from somebody in a low priced terraced property than somebody with a large expensive property who's mortgaged to the hilt.
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I disagree, just because you have more money or a better house doesn't mean you will pay over the market rate.
If the areas window cleaners generally all charge £8 then everyone knows that's the going rate. If you try and charge someone £15 yet they are aware all their friends, neighbours etc are paying less for similar propertys then why would they pay it, especially if there are loads of other window cleaners about
If I was looking for a service and I rang round for quotes and all of them came back at £100 and all the people I know who have had a similar service over the years for a similar price then that price becomes conditioned. Word of mouth spreads, people talk.
If I then look for that service again I know I want to be paying £100, because after all that's how much it's costs right...
But whatever lol that's my opinion no point banging on about it any longer.
I will smile and nod in future.
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i work in mainly affluent areas in cheshire but dont live there...the trick is to live in an area where its much lower housing costs,etc BUT try and build up your work in affluent areas where you can charge higher prices.its took me 25 years.LOL. ;D
but even in these affluent areas people are not stupid.......you cant just go around charging ridiculously high prices or you ll never get(and keep)any work as theres lots of very cheap window cleaners about who will clean for next to nothing...
the trick is to find the middle ground....not too cheap and not too expensive IMO.....
surrey and some london areas have their own economy which is far different than lots of other areas around the uk and they are able to charge much much more....
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I have been cleaning windows off and on for more than 40 years. The only thing I have learned about pricing in that time is that its a total mystery.
The more you do it the less you understand, as long as you are happy with what you get that's good enough.
I quoted a house at £25 a couple of weeks ago. She told me after she had accepted that another window cleaner had quoted £65. Amazed but what do I know?
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Sorry shrek I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my reply to you my frustration was really aimed towards john mart.
But just for comparison sake
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E61324&insId=2&minPrice=150000&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&areaSizeUnit=sqft&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying
Surrey has a population of 1.1million and almost 25`000 propertys above 150k
Wakefield has a population of 325k and 450 properties above 150k.
The point I am trying to make is that the entire region is top end compared to just a few in and amongst the bottom end hence why the whole region is price conditioned to lower prices.
We all know this and we all know that's why prices are double in one area.
I'm not telling anyone anything new its just frustrating when someone in another area is trying to tell someone else in another how to run a business like the other is somehow just an idiot.
You see it all the time on forums etc, how.much for this fsg...oh £50 then someone else saying £300.
The £50 quid guy is confused because he has tried charging that amount a dozen times but simply can't get it . The 300 quid guy doesn't understand why as he he gets it all day long and just assumes the other guy is a retard.
It's a fairly simple rule of business that prices are dictated by the market and that the % of quotes you get in your market determines the prices you should set .
Like in said above I think some of us live in different worlds and will never get it.
But anyway I'm off to work lol I didn't really intent to get dragged into this one
I understand what your saying but I think your wrong. My town has 110,000 population but that doesn’t mean everyone knows how much it cost to clean their house. There’s guys with massive rounds that charge 8 squid a house but that doesn’t bother me. If people accept my higher price than fare enough , if not there are other people to do it cheaper.
My point being about house prices are that to afford a 150k house , you would have to be earning around 30k a year. Now those 450 or so houses on rightmove earn this or have a big deposit. Those 450 houses obviously have neighbours so then it turns into thousands that have a house worth this much. So it’s not just 450 houses in Wakefield, it’s a lot more . You are not poor if you can afford a 150k house.
You sound like you price your jobs like a customer instead of pricing it with what you really want for it.
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.
So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...
You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.
Shrek doesn't live near me either...
Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.
I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.
You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.
So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?
I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve ::)roll
Because he says that non payers on that scale is something that is somehow peculiar to the north (or his part of it). In 8 years I seriously doubt I've had 10 non payers, yet he's had 150 or so in a few months. So it's either a northern thing or his targeting shyte houses and areas.
People that say they want to achieve this that and the other generally fail either because they aren't bright enough or aren't focussed. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Gomo gone from employing to not employing to employing again. Then saying it doesn't work. Hasn't he now set up a marketing initiative for other window cleaners? Yet he can't gain decent work for himself. Does this indicate single mindedness to you? He's defeated before he even starts. There's plenty around here like that too.
There's nothing genius about employing, gaining work or cleaning windows. In fact there's nothing genius about any business in the domestic service area, but you do need commitment and focus to build a solid one man business or a multi van business. Whining gets you nowhere.
Before launching back Adam, consider the wisdom in the above.
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Someone's thread above, mentioned if in an area where the going rate is £8 a pop that everyone will know it and won't pay £15 to someone else.
I understand where your coming from but I would have to disagree due to my own experience and yes it can boil down to the little extras which makes the difference.
For instance, in some areas I work the average charge is between £8 - £10, whereas I charge £15 and still picking up new work. I've picked up work in these areas due to word of mouth from my newish customers and guess why. I've been told its because I text before I come for the gates and they really like that as a professional touch. In addition they like that payment is by direct debit unlike cash as when these other window cleaners catch them in to pay. Finally it's because I do a good job and I'm not saying the eight pound guys aren't, I'm just simply saying what I get told. So yes, some clients don't mind paying for a more complete package even in areas where others charge silly prices and I'm up north. Also to point that I used to charge the going rates thinking I couldn't charge more and how wrong I was and I haven't looked back since.
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I have a friend that lives just outside Wakefield, (Thorpe), in a 3 story townhouse, a type of house that I clean many of. Usually take no longer than 20 minutes. He pays £22 monthly and is very happy with that price.
I live and work in Cheshire and I don’t get £22 for these type of houses.
Just saying.
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i work in mainly affluent areas in cheshire but dont live there...the trick is to live in an area where its much lower housing costs,etc BUT try and build up your work in affluent areas where you can charge higher prices.its took me 25 years.LOL. ;D
but even in these affluent areas people are not stupid.......you cant just go around charging ridiculously high prices or you ll never get(and keep)any work as theres lots of very cheap window cleaners about who will clean for next to nothing...
the trick is to find the middle ground....not too cheap and not too expensive IMO.....
surrey and some london areas have their own economy which is far different than lots of other areas around the uk and they are able to charge much much more....
We’ve covered this before but I couldn’t disagree with this more Daz, who wants to live in a bad area surrounded by dossers and druggies? not me. The trick is to live in a nice area but own your own home so you are not paying silly money for the privilege
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I have been cleaning windows off and on for more than 40 years. The only thing I have learned about pricing in that time is that its a total mystery.
The more you do it the less you understand, as long as you are happy with what you get that's good enough.
I quoted a house at £25 a couple of weeks ago. She told me after she had accepted that another window cleaner had quoted £65. Amazed but what do I know?
i clean a house that i charge £65 for.the last window cleaner charged £25!in fact when i last seen him i laughed and told him how much i was charging! ;D he couldnt believe it!and he was gutted when she got rid of him......the problem was he was trad and didnt do a very good job apparently.....hes now got a wfp trolley system and fibreglass pole but she would never have him back in a million years! ;D
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At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.
Quite true
I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.
You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.
i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ;D......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together...... :(
Look to yourselves.
Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.
Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.
Stop modded whining and man up!
With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.
So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...
You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.
Shrek doesn't live near me either...
Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.
I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.
You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.
So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?
I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve ::)roll
Because he says that non payers on that scale is something that is somehow peculiar to the north (or his part of it). In 8 years I seriously doubt I've had 10 non payers, yet he's had 150 or so in a few months. So it's either a northern thing or his targeting shyte houses and areas.
People that say they want to achieve this that and the other generally fail either because they aren't bright enough or aren't focussed. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Gomo gone from employing to not employing to employing again. Then saying it doesn't work. Hasn't he now set up a marketing initiative for other window cleaners? Yet he can't gain decent work for himself. Does this indicate single mindedness to you? He's defeated before he even starts. There's plenty around here like that too.
There's nothing genius about employing, gaining work or cleaning windows. In fact there's nothing genius about any business in the domestic service area, but you do need commitment and focus to build a solid one man business or a multi van business. Whining gets you nowhere.
Before launching back Adam, consider the wisdom in the above.
Absolutely, you need a thick skin and determination to push through.
You are right I am easily beaten. I don't take set backs well. I am very indecisive and change my mind daily on whether to employ or stay solo, probably because I don't really know what I want. Some days I'm positive other days I'm negative, that's just how i am.
I do have decent work though, for the area I work I have decently priced work..
The reason I had so many non payers is because I had most of my work canvassed.
I wasn't whining though, i was just pointing out facts that different areas have different markets, it was initially about paying employees and you saying pay a good wage...and that it would be easier to pay an employee a good wage in an area where they can turnover 90k as apposed to an area where prices are lower and less profit margins.
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I have a friend that lives just outside Wakefield, (Thorpe), in a 3 story townhouse, a type of house that I clean many of. Usually take no longer than 20 minutes. He pays £22 monthly and is very happy with that price.
I live and work in Cheshire and I don’t get £22 for these type of houses.
Just saying.
Of course you can get these type of prices, with enough years of effort I'm sure you could build a round of these
The issue comes when you want to scale it up to a multi van operation. Would take you decades simply because that price is so far over the average prices your conversion rate on quotes is going to be ridiculously low.
I have prices form £8-30 . Some are houses just like this one however it's the exception to the rule.
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gomo ...don't realy post much ...I do get the pricing thing … I live in south wales … one of the poorest parts of the uk ,,, tho I don't have much custies under £12.. my average monthly is about £12 , and my average bi monthly £20
my biggest concern is the amount of non payers and late payers …
this for me is your biggest problem
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gomo ...don't realy post much ...I do get the pricing thing … I live in south wales … one of the poorest parts of the uk ,,, tho I don't have much custies under £12.. my average monthly is about £12 , and my average bi monthly £20
my biggest concern is the amount of non payers and late payers …
this for me is your biggest problem
Yeh . Not really a problem though, I know why it happened. Part and parcel of canvassing work. A lot of my non payers probably didn't want it doing and come after the first/2nd cleans..It doesn't happen with established work, only new customers..
Never mind, less tax to pay, I think my total non payers is about a grand or so in 3 years it's not the end of the world and I've probably made up for it in other ways.